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Has anyone been? They seem to have got great reviews. But cant find anything on the forum about them. I had my first HT done by Dr Saifi in Poland very professional he does most the work with help of technicians, warclaw is a lovely city etc I only got 2000 graphs as he said my donor area wasn't great which I was surprised at.. Didnt mind at time as it looked good but I feel my results arent great to be honest density wise. Although he did say I need a second hit of about 800 graphs depending on results but I feel I'll need at least another 2000! mates still slag me about been bald & I got ripped off etc As lads have gone to Turkey for half the price and got much better results. Im in limbo as I dont know weather to go back to Dr Saifi or maybe Turkey but Turkey is so hit and miss.

I'm 42 now

HT was 2 years ago Dr Saifi - Poland 2000 graphs €5000

Cr lab Shampoos 3 month supply he sold and recommended I use to strengthen hair - €350

And Laser hair comb he told me website I can buy from no connection to him - further €500

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Don't go to HOI - they're a hair mill. It's a gamble, one that can and often does leave people far worse off than before.

Can we see some pics of your hair - before and now after your HT?

I don't know much about Saifi other than that he's a decently respected Dr. from what I can tell - have't seen too many of his results though.

I don't understand why he implanted 2000 grafts and said you'll need around about 800 more but you'll have to come back for a second separate procedure for that - makes no sense to me as 2800 is a completely reasonable number to do in one session. If it was something like 4000 plus grafts then it would start to make sense, but 2800? seems off to me. 

Whatever shampoo he's tried to sell you, absolute rip off. Does nothing to prevent hair loss, you'd be far better off using a basic ketoconazole shampoo, although it still makes little difference either way. Are you on fin?

Laser comb, similar story, some say it helps, but there's really little data to show either way. I have less of a problem with this though as it can't hurt anything and it's a one off purchase you can use forever. Well, as long as people are aware that it's not going to be doing all that much in reality and that they still need to be on proper medication regardless to really prevent loss.

 

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No he doesn't recommend Fin and to be honest I don't want to take it. The reason he recommend to come back for roughly about 800 graphs is because it could only take 2000 as he said my donor area was bad. I dont think it was my hair grows fast and thick its only on top. The off putting thing was the shampoos and Laser. But he said a HT is more about where you implant the graphs and not the number as each hair grows in different directions so its like a jigsaw. and you dont just bang them in! you want a natural look 

Pic 1 before Ht.jpg

Pic 2 Before HT.jpg

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???

I do not understand your story. You appear to be a NW6 and require 6000+Grafts for a reasonable restoration. Maybe a little less if you leave the crown open. THis does not match your 2000+800 FU for density story. Please make a proper threat about your status pre-, intra- and post surgery with a timeline and including your goals.

Your are not yet in a position to decide for a clinic IMO. 

 

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I'm with @Gasthoererhere - those are your before pics, right? If that's after 2000 grafts, then I'm sorry to say they hardly grew.

I don't understand how Saifi could think that 2000 grafts plus 'maybe' 800 or so would provide any sort of coverage unless he explicitly told you that you only have the donor to fill the frontal third or something.

You are indeed NW6 and  you need at least 6000 total grafts for reasonable coverage, and even more than that for a decent density across the whole top. 

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I just saw your after pics, it honestly doesn't look like there's much difference - did he implant across the whole top or? 

You still need another 6000 grafts easily for decent coverage.

Edited by JDEE0
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16 minutes ago, Benny79 said:

@GasthoererI am not making another thread why would I do this? This is what the HT Dr Saifi said I would need.  

The information your provided are not enough to give you advice. Please go through some other threads in here to see what is required like pre-, intra- and post-surgery (day1, month X,...) pics from several angles. 

Edited by Gasthoerer
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54 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

The information your provided are not enough to give you advice. Please go through some other threads in here to see what is required like pre-, intra- and post-surgery (day1, month X,...) pics from several angles. 

Mate I got my HT 2 years ago! I dont have them sorry. Hence why I started thread.

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Somewhat ridiculous for him to not recommend Finasteride and for you not to take it. You need to do something to strengthen that donor area & ensure the lateral humps don't dip. Granted you haven't got a great deal of native hair left to lose elsewhere, but anything you do have you'll want to cling onto (provided a second HT is possible). You've a bit of a forelock left from your native hair, for example, that will likely go without intervention.

You also need to go and get an in-person inspection of your donor area from a reputable clinic and see what they think your donor capacity actually has. If your donor is strong enough to get an extra 2000+ (or so) grafts and you've got a decent amount of beard hair that you could utilise, you could probably end up with a much improved (but never perfect) result. Your your original surgeon's estimate of your donor is wrong and you've got a decent amount left to play with, there's no reason you couldn't end up with a good amount of coverage all over in the right hands.

As it stands, the cosmetic difference before and after isn't nearly dramatic enough to warrant the 5,000EU spend. You either need to get an evaluation of what's possible moving forward, or cut your loses and save the money and hardship.

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Hi Berba11,

Loads of people have gone to Turkey and got good HT's and have not taking Finasteride. I dont really want to take that to be honest. But I agree I think my donor area is good dont forget I got my hair cut last Saturday shaved at back. I just dont know weather to go back to Dr Saifi in Poland or look for somewhere cheaper like Turkey. Ive been following hair of Istanbul on Instagram. They are one of the only HT clinics that has their comments turned on and its all positive but I am still sceptical.

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Just now, Benny79 said:

Hi Berba11,

Loads of people have gone to Turkey and got good HT's and have not taking Finasteride. I dont really want to take that to be honest. But I agree I think my donor area is good dont forget I got my hair cut last Saturday shaved at back. I just dont know weather to go back to Dr Saifi in Poland or look for somewhere cheaper like Turkey. Ive been following hair of Istanbul on Instagram. They are one of the only HT clinics that has their comments turned on and its all positive but I am still sceptical.

Hair of Istanbul is awful and yet another hair mill. The only names worth considering in Turkey are Dr Bicer, Dr Pekiner, Dr Keser and HLC. Or working from a budget it would be Dr Demirsoy or Dr Yaman. All of those have 1 or 2 patients per day and actual Dr involvement. The tech based procedures from the hair mills are a massive risk. ASMED is different if you was to choose the option where Dr Erdogan is involved in the crucial steps. Out of the 1000s of clinics in Turkey yes some turn out ok, but the vast majority do not. Absolutely not worth any risk, our donor area is finite and we have to be able to get the best chance possible ! This is going to involve a skilled Dr and not a unknown Tech.

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40 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

Hair of Istanbul is awful and yet another hair mill. The only names worth considering in Turkey are Dr Bicer, Dr Pekiner, Dr Keser and HLC. Or working from a budget it would be Dr Demirsoy or Dr Yaman. All of those have 1 or 2 patients per day and actual Dr involvement. The tech based procedures from the hair mills are a massive risk. ASMED is different if you was to choose the option where Dr Erdogan is involved in the crucial steps. Out of the 1000s of clinics in Turkey yes some turn out ok, but the vast majority do not. Absolutely not worth any risk, our donor area is finite and we have to be able to get the best chance possible ! This is going to involve a skilled Dr and not a unknown Tech.

Hi Mate,

Can you recommend anywhere? I live in Ireland. I actually spent 10 years from my 30's to 40 researching and been on this forum. I never posted anything and someone mentioned Dr Saifi in Poland and had nothing but good thinks to say and to be honest at the time Turkey was a bit hostile and I didnt fancy travelling there. Just a bit disappointed with result and number of graphs @ €5000 not cheap.. 

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Just now, Benny79 said:

Hi Mate,

Can you recommend anywhere? I live in Ireland. I actually spent 10 years from my 30's to 40 researching and been on this forum. I never posted anything and someone mentioned Dr Saifi in Poland and had nothing but good thinks to say and to be honest at the time Turkey was a bit hostile and I didnt fancy travelling there. Just a bit disappointed with result and number of graphs @ €5000 not cheap.. 

I have sent you a message 👍🏽

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1 hour ago, Benny79 said:

Hi Berba11,

Loads of people have gone to Turkey and got good HT's and have not taking Finasteride. I dont really want to take that to be honest. But I agree I think my donor area is good dont forget I got my hair cut last Saturday shaved at back. I just dont know weather to go back to Dr Saifi in Poland or look for somewhere cheaper like Turkey. Ive been following hair of Istanbul on Instagram. They are one of the only HT clinics that has their comments turned on and its all positive but I am still sceptical.

Getting a good HT and being on finasteride are two totally distinct things. Finasteride will prevent *further hair loss* of your native hair. Given the extent of your hair loss, it's usefulness to you could be debated, but you should certainly be seriously considering it as it may well help preserve your lower crown, lateral humps & strengthen your donor area.

Please do not go to Hair of Istanbul unless you think your head is worth no more than a lottery-style gamble. You may get a good result. You may get butchered. Your call!

There's no point in going to Dr Saifi again either. I'm concerned that you keep asking the wrong questions. At this stage your only concern should be getting a serious evaluation of your donor area from a reputable clinic. If I were you I'd be getting in touch with the Maitland Clinic in Portsmouth under Dr Ball and spend £130 getting an in-person evaluation & consultation on your donor. I appreciate that's a load of hassle flying over from Ireland, but it's a lot less hassle than flying to Turkey to find out you can't get what you wanted on surgery day.

If he thinks your donor is good for a decent sized surgery, then - and only then - should you start looking at possible clinics. John has given you a list of the best games in town in Turkey. If budget is an issue then I'd not be looking past Dr Bicer or Dr Demirsoy personally.

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9 hours ago, Benny79 said:

 2 pictures in better light after HT I just took now

Pic 3.jpg

Pic 4.jpg

In these pictures I’d say 2,000 grafts looks like reasonable yield. That said, you need at least another 5,000 grafts realistically. If you’re looking for a budget friendly clinic with good experience on high Norwoods check out Eugenix. Check out @Zoomster thread he’s from Ireland.

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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Cheers guys for the advice! I really do appreciate it! To be honest Ive started to get a bit depressed again about my hair as I taught 1 hit would be enough than maybe second as a touch up.. To say I need a further 5000 graphs has me a bit disheartened. Do you really think its that bad? I had a look @Zoomster journey incredible! I wouldn't class myself as bad as him though or am I in denial? I was lead to believe anything over 3500 graphs is over harvesting and can lead to shock loss or has technology advanced? I might contact Eugenix as see  although India is a long way to travel. 

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18 minutes ago, Benny79 said:

Cheers guys for the advice! I really do appreciate it! To be honest Ive started to get a bit depressed again about my hair as I taught 1 hit would be enough than maybe second as a touch up.. To say I need a further 5000 graphs has me a bit disheartened. Do you really think its that bad? I had a look @Zoomster journey incredible! I wouldn't class myself as bad as him though or am I in denial? I was lead to believe anything over 3500 graphs is over harvesting and can lead to shock loss or has technology advanced? I might contact Eugenix as see  although India is a long way to travel. 

3,500 grafts is a pretty normal number of grafts - it's not very high. Most people who aren't suffering any problems with their donor will be able to go beyond that quite comfortably, and if needed, can supplement with beard grafts (provided you have a reasonable beard).

Eugenix are excellent but as I've said, the only people you should be contacting right now is a reputable clinic that you can get your donor area examined with. You don't want to travel to Turkey or somewhere as far away as India only to discover your donor strength won't allow what you need. Get it checked first. If everything is fine, then think about clinics for surgeries.

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Cheers. Surely there's somewhere in Ireland I can get that checked? Is there anything you can do to strengthen your donor area? Most people haven't even noticed I had a HT done as I have no scars and regularly get a buzz cut at sides and back. 

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Sorry to hear mate, but don't give up, if you make the correct decisions from here then you too can still turn things around and improve things a lot. 

I mean, to be honest, yes; at least 5000 more. Your whole top from front to back was essentially bald minus a little frontal tuft at the forelock. I don't know why your doc ever led you to believe that 3000 grafts or so would sort you out, it was never a possibility - you are/were a fairly solid NW5. Zoomster was a 6, so he was a little worse off than you, but the difference doesn't seem huge to me. 

there is no arbitrary number or threshold that once passed means you've been over-harvested, like most aspects of a transplant, its completely based on maths and the characteristics of each individual patient.

If we know that baldness only really becomes visible once someone has lost around 40-50 percent of their original density, then we know we can take a similar ish amount from the donor before the same happens and the eye can detect thinning. So, surgeons will pick a cut off of where they draw the line, lets say its 35 percent of any patients donor, and then they will calculate how many grafts you have in your donor and at max take 35 percent of that. For some, it may be 5000 and anything beyond will start to show signs of over-harvesting, for others, it may be 7000, or 8000 etc - it depends how many grafts per cm/2 you had to begin with. But either way, 3500 would be a very weak donor, an average gives probably around 5-600. 

I think Eugenix would be the best option for you yes, as Berba says, it would be useful to get an examination before committing to surgery though.

You said you're in Ireland, I've heard good things about the blackrock clinic, maybe you could see them to get checked out. 

 

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To echo the above posters, go to Dr. Nel or Blackrock Clinic in Dublin and get an estimate of your hair calibre/donor but don't, whatever you do, go to an Irish clinic for a transplant. Blackrock Clinic, despite being one of the most expensive clinics in the world, consistently produces mediocre and sub-par results; Dr. Nel is not much better (and he starts at €8k). For that price you can go to Bisanga/Feriduni in Belgium and get world-class results. 

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5 hours ago, Benny79 said:

Cheers guys for the advice! I really do appreciate it! To be honest Ive started to get a bit depressed again about my hair as I taught 1 hit would be enough than maybe second as a touch up.. To say I need a further 5000 graphs has me a bit disheartened. Do you really think its that bad? I had a look @Zoomster journey incredible! I wouldn't class myself as bad as him though or am I in denial? I was lead to believe anything over 3500 graphs is over harvesting and can lead to shock loss or has technology advanced? I might contact Eugenix as see  although India is a long way to travel. 

You’re definitely in denial, you’re a class 6, there’s no doubt about it. The tiny tuft of hair you had prior to your first HT is probably a few hundred grafts difference, it wasn’t  significant cosmetically or visually speaking. The facts are that yes you need at least 5,000 grafts to get coverage, including the crown. 

Now, if you get another 3,500 that will fill in the hairline and maybe a little of the midscalp but your crown will be bald.

Just for comparison here’s Zoomster and you, the difference is negligible.  So if Zoomster got 7,000 grafts and still went in for a top-up, it’s safe to assume you’d need at least 7,000 yourself, possibly more depending on how much hair and density you want. 
3F73B269-EB86-4435-A699-D99BF59D34A1.jpeg

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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