Has anyone decided to go the hair transplant route without taking Fin or Min, do you have any pictures and advice?

[InTheSix]

8 hours ago, Hairtroubles said:

Thanks man, appreciate the message.  I am contemplating this, to be honest, shaving and then rocking the beard, sucks, but oh well...
Also, the thing that annoys me, paying GBP 130.00 doesnt get you face to face with Dr. Ball, this is for his rugby clinic, where you meet with someone called Eva Proudman, who then goes through your hair.  So yes, this is why I am a bit annoyed by it, given their availability, and me having to book work off for a holiday for this and take a 2 hour train there and back.  

Is there anyway I can mentally re-train my mind or prep for topical fin, or is that just an absolutel no go for me.

Hi bud.. I can imagine losing hair and not knowing what to do about it can be stressful. Trust me, been there.. I read all the comments here, and here is my honest 2 cents for you:

- take a break/pause.. hair loss is a marathon and I dont think you ever solve it, you simply find ways to manage it to your expectations

- think long term. What are your expectations 2 / 5/ 10+ years from now.. meaning are you adamant to have a full dense head of hair (that may be difficult to achieve for most), or are you ok to have some thinning with maybe a light crown or no crown coverage.. (each one of those will have a different action plan)

- you seem to be a diffuse thinner, so was I (I say "was", because I lost most of my hair, not because I found a cure.. sorry dont mean to scare you).. and I can tell you that as a diffuse thinner starting from age 26, while I didnt like the way my hair looked at present, I always yearned for the hair I saw in photos a year back.. in short, its all relative.. you may think your hair looks bad today, but 2 years from now, you may do anything to dial back just 2 years ..

- I think by now you get this.. but no one is saying you 'are' a NW5 or 6 but that you 'may' turn into one.. similarly, I read Dr Bisanga's evaluation as you not being a good candidate 'now'... but you may in the future.. frankly thats actually a good evaluation in my opinion, as you still have a lot of hair that you can lose due to shock loss.. when I was 28 yrs old, I went to a doctor, who said I was a great candidate for HT and recommended 3200 grafts.... thank god I didnt go ahead with his recommendation, as I am sure that was a bad decision in hindsight ( i feel you are in that situation today).. What I do regret from that time is that I didnt start any medication.. I do wish I had given finas a try then.. but alas..

- If it makes you feel any better, dr. Bisanga was also somewhat skeptical about my case, and even the doctor I eventually got my HT done recently(I am 39 now), initially said no to me... the point I am trying to make here is, dont feel down if you get an answer from a doctor that you dont like... its fine.. its completely normal to get different opinions from doctors, and the reasons can be varied (ethics, skills, preference, specialty, bad photos, etc) 2 years back I got a 'your not a candidate" from a very well respected doctor, and because I wasnt well researched, it really put me down.. the point here is... take your time, do your research and trust me, just like in the movie Matrix, you will start to see things very differently once you have a better handle of things. (just fyi.. i now take oral minox, and have ordered topical finas, and waiting for delivery)

- finally, the advice you get on this forum is pure GOLD, especially from some of the seasoned people here... you wont even get this much dedication from most clinics.. use it, consume it, learn from it, and hopefully you learn to manage this beast called hairloss

[deeznuts]

There's a ton of desperation that shouldn't be there when making a decision. Please don't let your mental state cause you to do something rash

[AB2000]

On 7/18/2021 at 12:28 PM, Hairtroubles said:

Hi there,

I am close to booking a hair transplant and do not want to go down the path of taking Fin or Min.  Has anyone here gone this route and I was wondering if you documented your journey, or have pictures of the progress?  Please do share as much as possible and any advice is appreciated.

Just out of curiosity, what went wrong in this guys transplant as this kind of scares me:  

 

I never took finasteride, before or after surgery.  Since it can deplete body hair and I've had these transferred to my thinning areas, taking it would negate some of my progress and waste money.  I've also stopped with minoxidil as I've lost whatever hair I'm going to lose up top.  Min doesn't work forever, so 7 years after my first HT I'm not on it.

 

[Curious25]

12 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m on medication, just not finasteride. Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. 

So no preventative medication then . . which is what the theme of this thread is orientated towards. 
 

I’m not having a go, or saying you are wrong for advising against surgery . .  I just found it an interesting observation of how adamantly against surgery you were for him, as you had lost more ground than OP at an almost identical age, yet have came out the dark side and find yourself in a good position today because of hair restoration. 

[Hairtroubles]

4 hours ago, Curious25 said:

So no preventative medication then . . which is what the theme of this thread is orientated towards. 
 

I’m not having a go, or saying you are wrong for advising against surgery . .  I just found it an interesting observation of how adamantly against surgery you were for him, as you had lost more ground than OP at an almost identical age, yet have came out the dark side and find yourself in a good position today because of hair restoration. 

Agreed.  

[Hairtroubles]

11 hours ago, InTheSix said:

Hi bud.. I can imagine losing hair and not knowing what to do about it can be stressful. Trust me, been there.. I read all the comments here, and here is my honest 2 cents for you:

- take a break/pause.. hair loss is a marathon and I dont think you ever solve it, you simply find ways to manage it to your expectations

- think long term. What are your expectations 2 / 5/ 10+ years from now.. meaning are you adamant to have a full dense head of hair (that may be difficult to achieve for most), or are you ok to have some thinning with maybe a light crown or no crown coverage.. (each one of those will have a different action plan)

- you seem to be a diffuse thinner, so was I (I say "was", because I lost most of my hair, not because I found a cure.. sorry dont mean to scare you).. and I can tell you that as a diffuse thinner starting from age 26, while I didnt like the way my hair looked at present, I always yearned for the hair I saw in photos a year back.. in short, its all relative.. you may think your hair looks bad today, but 2 years from now, you may do anything to dial back just 2 years ..

- I think by now you get this.. but no one is saying you 'are' a NW5 or 6 but that you 'may' turn into one.. similarly, I read Dr Bisanga's evaluation as you not being a good candidate 'now'... but you may in the future.. frankly thats actually a good evaluation in my opinion, as you still have a lot of hair that you can lose due to shock loss.. when I was 28 yrs old, I went to a doctor, who said I was a great candidate for HT and recommended 3200 grafts.... thank god I didnt go ahead with his recommendation, as I am sure that was a bad decision in hindsight ( i feel you are in that situation today).. What I do regret from that time is that I didnt start any medication.. I do wish I had given finas a try then.. but alas..

- If it makes you feel any better, dr. Bisanga was also somewhat skeptical about my case, and even the doctor I eventually got my HT done recently(I am 39 now), initially said no to me... the point I am trying to make here is, dont feel down if you get an answer from a doctor that you dont like... its fine.. its completely normal to get different opinions from doctors, and the reasons can be varied (ethics, skills, preference, specialty, bad photos, etc) 2 years back I got a 'your not a candidate" from a very well respected doctor, and because I wasnt well researched, it really put me down.. the point here is... take your time, do your research and trust me, just like in the movie Matrix, you will start to see things very differently once you have a better handle of things. (just fyi.. i now take oral minox, and have ordered topical finas, and waiting for delivery)

- finally, the advice you get on this forum is pure GOLD, especially from some of the seasoned people here... you wont even get this much dedication from most clinics.. use it, consume it, learn from it, and hopefully you learn to manage this beast called hairloss

Hey man, 

Yeah, its just a lot of information at once and it's super demotivating.  On the two sides of the coin, I am being told to do something NOW, and on the other hand, because I do not want to take medication, I am being told to do nothing so I can then get a HT after loss has stablised.

I know this isn't a miracle cure, but I booked an appointment with a Dr. Eva Proudman in three weeks and paid GBP 130.00 to see her.

I just spoke to Eva Proudmans husband on the phone (who works for Eva), they work with closely the 'Maitland Clinic', said she is really sought after and so forth, been in the industry for 20 years. 

I was on the phone for 40 minutes, told him all my worries.  He said to come in, they can closely look at my scalp, try and find the cause of the loss under the microscope, he kept mentioning minoxidil, but said they have other alternatives.  I mentioned my fears of Fin, and he said there are other alternatives, then he said there are, and then I put two and two together, he meant Saw Palmetto, any thoughts on this? I'm sure I have read people reading they also got permanent Side Effects from Saw Palmetto too?  He said something about it not being in it's original form, I'm not sure, but it demotivated me quite a bit, I thought there was some new product/formula out with minimum side effects.  He didn't want to tell me the name as well to avoid researching it.  I feel like he may have said that so I buy it on the day without reading about it?

Are my options just that limited, like genuinely?

 

Also, did you end up getting a HT from Dr. Bisanga, are you not on Fin, and why are you going on it now, did it not scare you? Are there really not any alternatives?

[Melvin- Admin]

5 hours ago, Curious25 said:

So no preventative medication then . . which is what the theme of this thread is orientated towards. 
 

I’m not having a go, or saying you are wrong for advising against surgery . .  I just found it an interesting observation of how adamantly against surgery you were for him, as you had lost more ground than OP at an almost identical age, yet have came out the dark side and find yourself in a good position today because of hair restoration. 

If you think that the meds I take don’t slow hair loss and preserve hair loss, then IDK what to tell you. Oral minoxidil prolongs the anagen growth phase, which will i.e, prevent hair loss. 

Delaying hair loss and slowing hair loss is preventive, which is what fin does as well. Fin does not stop hair loss for everyone, for many it slows it to a crawl. Also, Azaleic Acid is a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, not as powerful as finasteride, but in combination with OM quite powerful, if you think fin is the only preventive medication then 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, Hairtroubles said:

Agreed.  

It’s not the medication only, notice how you went silent after I showed you my crown. See I’m not trying to sell you a hair transplant, I’m trying to tell you the truth. I don’t feel your a candidate for a variety of reasons. Mental state, expectations, refusal to use medication. For all of those reasons, I don’t believe you’re a good candidate. 

[Melvin- Admin]

7 hours ago, deeznuts said:

There's a ton of desperation that shouldn't be there when making a decision. Please don't let your mental state cause you to do something rash

^this is exactly what I’m saying. As a community, we need to see the signs of a poor candidate, someone looking for a quick fix without wanting to do the work to maintain their hair or research. He was highly desperate to hear what I did and then went silent went I showed my crown.

To me that shows unrealistic expectations combined with a bad mental state and refusal to try medication. All these things combined are a recipe for disaster. We all know how shady this industry can be, for sure there will be a surgeon who will tell him everything he wants to hear, to take his money.

But in a years time I could see him back here desperate for a solution to get his hair fixed. Acting on emotion is never a good idea, and if I’m the bad guy for saying so, I’ll be the bad guy.

[Hairtroubles]

5 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

^this is exactly what I’m saying. As a community, we need to see the signs of a poor candidate, someone looking for a quick fix without wanting to do the work to maintain their hair or research. He was highly desperate to hear what I did and then went silent went I showed my crown.

To me that shows unrealistic expectations combined with a bad mental state and refusal to try medication. All these things combined are a recipe for disaster. We all know how shady this industry can be, for sure there will be a surgeon who will tell him everything he wants to hear, to take his money.

But in a years time I could see him back here desperate for a solution to get his hair fixed. Acting on emotion is never a good idea, and if I’m the bad guy for saying so, I’ll be the bad guy.

Hey man, 

Appreciate the honesty, and no man, to be honest, I get notifications in my Gmail whenever someone replies, I had yours unopened to remind myself to reply, actually, I was going to reply to you.  Your crown isn't that bad to be honest given how thin your hair was before, so it's actually a huge improvement.  I use Hair fibres and derma-match as well, right now.

Im actually writing all these things down to ask in person at my next meeting with this person. So all this info is good.

Can you tell me about the medications you take, i just dont want to be on fin, so this is huge for me learning more about this.

Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. - That is what you take right?

Maybe I can ask to take that as well, surely it would slow down my lose, do those actually effect DHT? Anything to not have a crash like Fin or be in the running for a crash (for my mental state), is huge for me.

Also - what is Keto? Is that a diet?

[Melvin- Admin]

4 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

Hey man, 

Appreciate the honesty, and no man, to be honest, I get notifications in my Gmail whenever someone replies, I had yours unopened to remind myself to reply, actually, I was going to reply to you.  Your crown isn't that bad to be honest given how thin your hair was before, so it's actually a huge improvement.  I use Hair fibres and derma-match as well, right now.

Im actually writing all these things down to ask in person at my next meeting with this person. So all this info is good.

Can you tell me about the medications you take, i just dont want to be on fin, so this is huge for me learning more about this.

Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. - That is what you take right?

Maybe I can ask to take that as well, surely it would slow down my lose, do those actually effect DHT? Anything to not have a crash like Fin or be in the running for a crash (for my mental state), is huge for me.

Also - what is Keto? Is that a diet?

Ketocanozole shampoo you can buy nizoral it’s the most common. Here’s the thing, no one’s gonna give you a recipe or tell you exactly what you have to do. I don’t want to come off rude, but I know your mental state is not what it should be to get surgery.

Here are some facts you must accept prior to getting surgery. 
 

#1. Your hair will never be perfect. 
#2. You’ll need more than one HT in your lifetime.

#3. Despite choosing the best surgeon theres a possibility your HT could fail. 
#4. You could experience permanent shock loss and end up with netgain. 

#5. You will have scarring in the donor area. Which would be evident if you ever shave your head. 

If you cannot accept any of these facts do not get a hair transplant. There’s a ton of clinics that will only tell you what you want to hear, not the reality. That’s not what we do here. We educate first, then recommend.

[Hairtroubles]

Just now, Melvin- Moderator said:

Ketocanozole shampoo you can buy nizoral it’s the most common. Here’s the thing, no one’s gonna give you a recipe or tell you exactly what you have to do. I don’t want to come off rude, but I know your mental state is not what it should be to get surgery.

Here are some facts you must accept prior to getting surgery. 
 

#1. Your hair will never be perfect. 
#2. You’ll need more than one HT in your lifetime.

#3. Despite choosing the best surgeon theres a possibility your HT could fail. 
#4. You could experience permanent shock loss and end up with netgain. 

#5. You will have scarring in the donor area. Which would be evident if you ever shave your head. 

If you cannot accept any of these facts do not get a hair transplant. There’s a ton of clinics that will only tell you what you want to hear, not the reality. That’s not what we do here. We educate first, then recommend.

Okay, sounds good, I used Nizoral shampoo, did you get dry/itchy scalp from it? It might not have been from Nizoral but my scalp was in a bad place three weeks ago from using it three times a week. I dont know if it was from the nizoral shampoo though?

Also are you sure about Oral MInoxidil/Minoxidil as a DHT blocker, with Keto, and Acid, surely that doens't block DHT?

 

I udnerstand, I would rather NOT have a HT - but i dont want to risk my life sexual side effects for a pill/hair. With that being siad, i am derpessed from this and want to fix it.

[Legend007]

U done for if u don’t do something to stabilize ur loss . 
the way it’s going it be gone sooner than u think ,, so don’t waste time with generic hairloss crap like supplements ,,

don’t listen to Melvin , he doesn’t know anything about hair ,, he’s a just a moderator on a hairloss forum with 3 hair transplants . 

[Hairtroubles]

4 minutes ago, Legend007 said:

U done for if u don’t do something to stabilize ur loss . 
the way it’s going it be gone sooner than u think ,, so don’t waste time with generic hairloss crap like supplements ,,

don’t listen to Melvin , he doesn’t know anything about hair ,, he’s a just a moderator on a hairloss forum with 3 hair transplants . 

I cant tell if that was sarcasm or not telling me not to listen to Melvin?

let me guess, youre just saying, 'take fin bruh'.

[Melvin- Admin]

14 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

Okay, sounds good, I used Nizoral shampoo, did you get dry/itchy scalp from it? It might not have been from Nizoral but my scalp was in a bad place three weeks ago from using it three times a week. I dont know if it was from the nizoral shampoo though?

Also are you sure about Oral MInoxidil/Minoxidil as a DHT blocker, with Keto, and Acid, surely that doens't block DHT?

 

I udnerstand, I would rather NOT have a HT - but i dont want to risk my life sexual side effects for a pill/hair. With that being siad, i am derpessed from this and want to fix it.

Oral minoxidil doesn’t block DHT the Azaleic acid does. They both work well synergistically. Oral minoxidil prolongs the anagen growth phase, which means it keeps more active hair follicles on your head. 

Balding is essentially two parts, shortened anagen phase combined with thinner hairs. When you thin, your hair lives a shorter time, and when it grows back its thinner, smaller, and weaker. By prolonging the life cycle you are significantly reducing the rate of hair loss. 

Now as for Azaleic Acid, there’s two groups, there’s people who feel it does not work, and others that do. For me, it works. If you’ve heard of Derek More plates more dates, this is the guy who basically taught him about hair loss medication. 

 

[Curious25]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

If you think that the meds I take don’t slow hair loss and preserve hair loss, then IDK what to tell you. Oral minoxidil prolongs the anagen growth phase, which will i.e, prevent hair loss. 

Delaying hair loss and slowing hair loss is preventive, which is what fin does as well. Fin does not stop hair loss for everyone, for many it slows it to a crawl. Also, Azaleic Acid is a 5-alpha reductase inhibitor, not as powerful as finasteride, but in combination with OM quite powerful, if you think fin is the only preventive medication then 🤷🏻‍♂️

Fair enough. I’ve just never heard minoxidil ever be referred to as a preventative medication in all my years on the boards. 

[Hairtroubles]

26 minutes ago, Curious25 said:

Fair enough. I’ve just never heard minoxidil ever be referred to as a preventative medication in all my years on the boards. 

Is it though?

Melvin - Thanks, will watch the video after, ive written this all down to discuss as well with Eva when I meet her.  Is minoxidil actuall a DHT blocker with Azaleic, ive never heard that either.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, Hairtroubles said:

Is it though?

Melvin - Thanks, will watch the video after, ive written this all down to discuss as well with Eva when I meet her.  Is minoxidil actuall a DHT blocker with Azaleic, ive never heard that either.

Watch the video he explains it.

[Hairtroubles]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Watch the video he explains it.

Watched it, written it down to discuss with her, is it easy to buy/get in UK?

Also, how come many people haven't spoke about this (Lipogaine)?   

Thoughts (its a shampoo) - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lipogaine-Prevention-Premium-Organic-Shampoo/dp/B01MTGE7Y2/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=lipogaine+for+men&qid=1628276471&sr=8-5

 

[InTheSix]

7 hours ago, Hairtroubles said:

Hey man, 

Yeah, its just a lot of information at once and it's super demotivating.  On the two sides of the coin, I am being told to do something NOW, and on the other hand, because I do not want to take medication, I am being told to do nothing so I can then get a HT after loss has stablised.

I know this isn't a miracle cure, but I booked an appointment with a Dr. Eva Proudman in three weeks and paid GBP 130.00 to see her.

I just spoke to Eva Proudmans husband on the phone (who works for Eva), they work with closely the 'Maitland Clinic', said she is really sought after and so forth, been in the industry for 20 years. 

I was on the phone for 40 minutes, told him all my worries.  He said to come in, they can closely look at my scalp, try and find the cause of the loss under the microscope, he kept mentioning minoxidil, but said they have other alternatives.  I mentioned my fears of Fin, and he said there are other alternatives, then he said there are, and then I put two and two together, he meant Saw Palmetto, any thoughts on this? I'm sure I have read people reading they also got permanent Side Effects from Saw Palmetto too?  He said something about it not being in it's original form, I'm not sure, but it demotivated me quite a bit, I thought there was some new product/formula out with minimum side effects.  He didn't want to tell me the name as well to avoid researching it.  I feel like he may have said that so I buy it on the day without reading about it?

Are my options just that limited, like genuinely?

 

Also, did you end up getting a HT from Dr. Bisanga, are you not on Fin, and why are you going on it now, did it not scare you? Are there really not any alternatives?

In my opinion, there are only 2 things humanity has ever created (with enough long term supporting data) to fight hair loss.. thats HT and Finas (Minox comes third).. I am sure other things like Biotin, supplements, dutas, saw P, Nizoral, microneedles, laser hats, PRP, onion oil, hanging upside down for an hour a day... may help someone but I just dont think they are part of a long term robust strategy (maybe ppl can put an arguement for dutas)

Frankly, if you keep searching for "non-finas solutions" you will come across tons of example of "miracles".. but just know that its only because you are looking for them, and secondly, they are part of the exception not the norm...

in short, yes your options are limited (which btw is not a bad thing if you think about it)..

No I did not get an HT fron Bisanga, but I am considering him for my 2nd HT as I will most likely need to use my beard for future HT and he seems to be good with it..

I havent used Fin before, but I ordered it 1.5 months back and I am waiting for it (topical)..  I didnt use Fin in the past because I was young and not well researched (I feel you are in that position today)

I would suggest you spend some time researching topical Finas or dutas.. I am no expert, but I believe that they have the potential to be the next game changer/gold standard, given their potential benefit with little/ no (dare I say) side effects... My HT surgeon had full confidence recommending me topical finas (not to confuse you, but since Topical finas is not FDA approved, its compounded by pharmacies.. which means that topical finas bought from different sources can have slightly different formulations.. so try to get it from an accredited place)

Since all hair loss medication are recommended to be taken for life, you need to have a positive mind frame if you choose to go down the med route.. meaning that if you keep thinking negatively then chances are that you will have side effects (placebo)... our bodies naturally slow down, and things (hint hint) dont always work the same way they did when we were 16... so if you keep thinking about finas, you may simply blame age related rustiness to finas.. that will be a losing battle...

[bald-and-bearded]

20 hours ago, AB2000 said:

I never took finasteride, before or after surgery.  Since it can deplete body hair and I've had these transferred to my thinning areas, taking it would negate some of my progress and waste money.  I've also stopped with minoxidil as I've lost whatever hair I'm going to lose up top.  Min doesn't work forever, so 7 years after my first HT I'm not on it.

 

King Dr Umar. I wonder why he isn't more popular around here.

Now I am rethinking if I want to be on topical finasteride lol. If it has systemic absorption I would lose some body hair.

if you don't mind could you write a breakdown of how many donor hair he took from each area?

[Hairtroubles]

3 hours ago, bald-and-bearded said:

King Dr Umar. I wonder why he isn't more popular around here.

Now I am rethinking if I want to be on topical finasteride lol. If it has systemic absorption I would lose some body hair.

if you don't mind could you write a breakdown of how many donor hair he took from each area?

Why dont you want to be on Topical Fin anymore?

@InTheSix - thanks, i appreciate the reply, the problem is, i have researched fin, topical fin, probably over 1,000 hours now.  Its gotten to the point i know everything i need to know. 

Its a synthetic drug that seems to have huge problems and side effects.  Ive read too many horror stories, its scary.  I hate this.

I dont know what to do.

Even weaning off seems a problem?

[bald-and-bearded]

27 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

Why dont you want to be on Topical Fin anymore?

Read AB2000's reply. He says Finasteride can deplete body hair. If you intend to use body hair as donor hair, Finasteride can deplete them.

[Ajamilo]

36 minutes ago, bald-and-bearded said:

Read AB2000's reply. He says Finasteride can deplete body hair. If you intend to use body hair as donor hair, Finasteride can deplete them.

Is that truth thought? Eugenix advocate finasteride and they are using BHT

[bald-and-bearded]

6 minutes ago, Ajamilo said:

Is that truth thought? Eugenix advocate finasteride and they are using BHT

Yeah good point, I don't know if there is any research on this. I believe @AB2000 heard it from Dr Umar?