Has anyone decided to go the hair transplant route without taking Fin or Min, do you have any pictures and advice?

[Hairtroubles]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:27 PM, Curious25 said:

You're going to have to do a lot more research, stop panicking and trying to rush things through, learn what is capable with your situation, have a look at yourself in the mirror, and workout if you can accept being happy with what is capable to be achieved with your situation, and then you will be in a much stronger position to make a decision. 

You're young, but not so young. Your loss in a NW5 pattern is evident, however there are worse off people at your age. 

FWIW I think BHR have given you sound advice. 

However, I also think, there will be ethical surgeons who would be prepared to strengthen your frontal hairline conservatively, to give you a confidence boost and improve your appearance - as long as you are aware of the commitments down the line you have to make, the limitations that you will face, and they are happy that you are clued up enough to know that you will be happy with what is achievable. 

You need to research and learn about hair restoration a lot more. 

I, and many others don't take medication, however we understand the implications of this, and are prepared to face the consequences, albeit mitigating it as best as we can, with carefully planned surgeries, at top class clinics. 

You also need to go for in person consultations.

Good Luck  

Mate, im going to dm you.

I dont want to take fin, (why dont you by the way), i just ordered Topical Fin, but am already shitting myself.  

Can you help me plan this out with good surgeons who give me confidence and can help me plan this out, please?

 

[Hairtroubles]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:57 PM, Dr. Suhail Khokhar said:

Thanks for the tag @JohnAC71. I agree with what Dr. Bisanga stated. His response truly shows that he's an ethical surgeon. He could have taken your money and done the surgery and your hair loss would have progressed without medical therapy and you would not have been happy. You need to tackle hair loss from a multifaceted approach. Without finasteride/minoxidil, you're fighting with 1 hand tied behind your back. If you're not able to tolerate oral finasteride, then try topical finasteride or topical dutasteride. As always, feel free to reach out anytime. 

Doc, I am just too scared with trying Fin, the reports of mood changes, depression, and chemical changes seem crazy.  I previously had depression, sometimes I feel super down, am I not prone to this and anxiety (which I am sure I have) if I take fin?

Like whats your thoughts, honestly, is there no way for me to do this unless I take Fin and Min, is that what you are telling me.  Surely I have other choices, what if I dont want to take fin.

@Curious25

[Hairtroubles]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:40 PM, JDEE0 said:

I understand that you're disappointed, but I think you're just slowly coming to the realisation/understanding that hair transplants aren't simple quick fixes or solutions to the issue of hair loss itself. Yes, they can bring back lost ground to a reasonable density depending on the extent of an individuals loss, but they don't treat hair loss itself. 

To be blunt, you're losing hair in a high Norwood pattern (5+) right now, and it's clearly evident objectively speaking. If you were to have a HT without being on preventative meds right now then you face two issues.

1) all of your existing hair may be shocked out and may never come back from the trauma of the surgery as it's in a weakened state due to your MPB.

2) Even if this doesn't happen, you go in and get 3000 grafts lets say and it all grows well, in 5 years I can't imagine the native hair you have left will be around any more (if you don't use meds) and you'll be back to square 1. Maybe you go back in and get another 2500 or so and have decent coverage back to front after that grows in, but maybe not and you need more grafts that aren't there. Additonally, what happens If your NW5 goes to NW6 or 7 and you have no grafts left? Maybe you can't even get enough to cover a NW5 as is right now, I don't know. 

Now, no one knows what's going to happen. Maybe you'll get to a NW5 and not really progress much further, or at least not for a long long time. This is a good possibility, don't get me wrong, but the reason Bisanga has declined you is because he doesn't know either.

There's a chance that, by performing surgery on you without meds, he may be placing you in a position where your level of loss will outpace your own donor supply. If this happens, you're left with 5000+ scars on the back of your head, so shaving isn't ideal, and at the same time a potentially strange looking head of hair if you leave it longer and wear it as is. 

It seems you're willing to try topical fin which is good. It works and should stabilise you. Maybe you could add in minoxidil and micro-needling at some point; I think you could potentially get good re-growth in your case. Either way, I would ideally use the meds until its clear I had stabilised/recovered a little bit and then go ahead with a HT, but only if I was committed to using meds indefinitely. Yours is a clear case of knowing exactly what would happen if you stop, so you'd need to commit. 

Just looked at the Freshmans place, never heard of it but it seems a legit telemedicine company. 44 quid a month for a bottle of topical fin/min is expensive though. 

0.05% would equate to 0.5mg of fin per ml, so the equivalent of half the daily dose orally as the recommended dose is 1mg per day. 

Yeah Man, 

I am, I see this, but im dissapointed by a few things.  I thought you can do this all without taking Fin, like genuniely.  I thought @Melvin- Moderatordoesn't take fin, but he seems to have been okay.  @Curious25 -- can you help me plan this out, find good hair places which I can discuss a plan with, the fact that I do not have a plan absolutely destroys me. 

I spoke to Harley Street Clinic in london, and they said I can go down the path of not taking anything, staying off forums, and come in and they can top me up, and do it again if needed, I was happy about that, until I realised maybe they arent the best?

Okay, so the two scenarios you gave me, I get, makes sense.  Does the donor area get weak too? Didn't know that, like i thought that would always be there to do a transplant for?

Im 29, I just want to do this the right way.  The thing that dissapoints me the most is Bisanga didn't even give me a solution, like, I just want a plan here, genuinely, not having a plan is killing me, and the anxiety of taking fin is also killing me.  So please, like genuinely, i beg you, can we help myself because im falling into a depression.  I swear to god, this is depressing me, its all I think about and talk about, Im not even working that much because I just want to focus on a plan here, please.

For freshman, they say to take 0.05% fin twice a day, so it would be the normal, but i wouldn't start with that, was thinking doing 0.50mg (one dose a day), maybe even every other day.

Please for the love of god can we please help me do this the right way.

 @Curious25 - like can you show me your plan, pics, how it goes, who you used, when you want, what points. Like surely I have options here, not just... Fin?

[Curious25]

Without spoon feeding you - you have to take on board what has already been said, you need to research, and luckily for you, you have found this forum which is an excellent starting point. 

Look at doctors who have patient posted results with cases similar to your own - similar hair calibre and similar pattern of loss. 

Learn what can be achieved - and make a list of docs you like.

Contact each of the docs, as you did with BHR, explain your whole situation - and ideally go and visit them in person for a consultation and assessment. 

Depending on your donor's strength, family history, beard and chest hair as a source, and levels of miniaturisation will determine an estimate of how many grafts you have available. 

This number, combined with your hair calibre type, will allow yourself and the doctors to determine what can be achieved, if you were to become fully bald in the NW5 pattern you present. 

So for example - if you have 8000 total grafts available;

The measurement of the surface area of your NW5 pattern will be taken - the density that can be achieved will be presented to you, and examples of similar transplanted densities with your hair type will be shown to you, to give you an idea of what can be expected. 

[Hairtroubles]

11 hours ago, Curious25 said:

Without spoon feeding you - you have to take on board what has already been said, you need to research, and luckily for you, you have found this forum which is an excellent starting point. 

Look at doctors who have patient posted results with cases similar to your own - similar hair calibre and similar pattern of loss. 

Learn what can be achieved - and make a list of docs you like.

Contact each of the docs, as you did with BHR, explain your whole situation - and ideally go and visit them in person for a consultation and assessment. 

Depending on your donor's strength, family history, beard and chest hair as a source, and levels of miniaturisation will determine an estimate of how many grafts you have available. 

This number, combined with your hair calibre type, will allow yourself and the doctors to determine what can be achieved, if you were to become fully bald in the NW5 pattern you present. 

So for example - if you have 8000 total grafts available;

The measurement of the surface area of your NW5 pattern will be taken - the density that can be achieved will be presented to you, and examples of similar transplanted densities with your hair type will be shown to you, to give you an idea of what can be expected. 

Hey, 

I am taking on board everything, I Just made an appointment with Dr. Reddy Raghu, any feedback or information on him?

I am just not sure on the direction to go, I keep getting different things/ideas, take Fin, dont take fin, get HT, you dont have hair for HT, your donor hair is going, you have retrogade, its crazy. I am feeling depressed from this.

Like, the things people sent me about Fin scare me, I just replied to another post with the articles that were sent to me about it, and reading it, basically altering the DNA and damaging it, wtf.

Do you have any recommendations or patient case studies yourself you could recommend to me that you stand by, would appreciate it.

[aaron1234]

17 hours ago, Hairtroubles said:

Doc, I am just too scared with trying Fin

That is fine, you'll just continue to lose hair.  

[Hairtroubles]

1 minute ago, aaron1234 said:

That is fine, you'll just continue to lose hair.  

The horror posts of Fin are just too much for me.  

Dr. Ball and his team are asking me to come GBP 130.000 to meet, and to pay today.  Is that worth it, seems like a lot of money?

[Melvin- Admin]

Honestly man, you’re not a candidate. Any surgeon that operates on you is just taking your money. 

[Hairtroubles]

3 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Honestly man, you’re not a candidate. Any surgeon that operates on you is just taking your money. 

I dont get it, so what, I cancel my appointment now with Dr. Ball and not pay the money.  I am so confused man, for real, what do I do, honestly. What should I do. I was told to get in contact with Dr. ball, here I am, and im told now if he takes me on, hes taking my money.

[Berba11]

6 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

I dont get it, so what, I cancel my appointment now with Dr. Ball and not pay the money.  I am so confused man, for real, what do I do, honestly. What should I do. I was told to get in contact with Dr. ball, here I am, and im told now if he takes me on, hes taking my money.

What you do is buzz your hair off and make your peace with it. Simple as that. (You'll look better for it, by the way - as do 99% of balding blokes).

You're destined to develop side effects from finasteride. Not necessarily real, actual ones, but the placebo effect. You're coming off as exactly that type of person. If you're this worried and panicked and frantic about a drug that is absolutely un-problematic for most people and totally reversible for those less fortunate, then the very last thing you should be doing to your body is irreversible, mostly unrepairable SURGERY!

That's what you should do.

As for Dr Ball... If £130 gets you a thorough assessment of your hair in person, and he's able to tell you how many scalp and beard grafts you have available, and it's a good number, then you might be fortunate enough to have enough in the bank to cover you current hair loss and future hair loss. But you'll be committing to two or three surgeries, and there's no guarantee that each will work out perfectly. Dr Ball is a distinguished surgeon. I'd be happy to hand him £130 for an expert, in person analysis and assessment, and indeed I am considering getting such an assessment of my hair from him prior to any surgery I undertake.

[Melvin- Admin]

16 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

I dont get it, so what, I cancel my appointment now with Dr. Ball and not pay the money.  I am so confused man, for real, what do I do, honestly. What should I do. I was told to get in contact with Dr. ball, here I am, and im told now if he takes me on, hes taking my money.

Get on medication, if you don’t want too, shave your head. Those are your options. Hair Transplants do not stop or cure hair loss. 

[TorontoMan]

The hard truth is you're far gone for 29 years old and if you're not willing to take medication, then you will just continue to lose everything. A hair transplant will be tough as you won't get great enough coverage and your donor is likely to minaturize in some parts in the future without meds as well. 

What I suggest is that you buzz your head down, you should have already done this. Take a look at how you feel about your look, many guys are shocked at how fine they are with this look, and if this is something you are fine with, then you win this right here and you could move on with your life. 

If not, the next step for me would be to consider SMP as an option too. More and more im seeing some incredible results from SMP, that is a functional solution for so many men. Ill attach some examples of SMP with hair transplant for coverage, but you could also find amazing results with SMP on its own. 

If that is not something you want to consider, but I think you should, then your only other option is to make a plan to slowly introduce medication to get over your fear. There are many guys on here alone and even more that I've talked to outside of this forum who have been on it successfully for many years. Dr. Hasson is rumoured to have been on fin for many years and conceived two daughters in that same time. If you could go on a course and try to get some regrowth, you could become a better candidate for surgery. However, I believe that without some course of action, you will set yourself up to pay a lot of money and be full of expectation for a what hair transplant could do for you and come out disappointed. 

Finasteride isnt the only option too, you have topical anti androgens as well like CB and Fluridil you could introduce first. However there is so much data supporting finasteride, it is the easiest starting point imo. I don't want to sell false hope to members on the forum, but there is a lot of stuff being trialed right now for hair loss that should be coming out in just a few years. If these things are shown to work, you may only need to use finasteride for a little while to maintain you until then. I would try a small dose of fin for the first 4 months, say 0.25 mg every other day, and slowly work your way up as you get more confident that its fine for you. This is what I did when I started and I'm glad I started slow. 

[Hairtroubles]

1 minute ago, Berba11 said:

What you do is buzz your hair off and make your peace with it. Simple as that. (You'll look better for it, by the way - as do 99% of balding blokes).

You're destined to develop side effects from finasteride. Not necessarily real, actual ones, but the placebo effect. You're coming off as exactly that type of person. If you're this worried and panicked and frantic about a drug that is absolutely un-problematic for most people and totally reversible for those less fortunate, then the very last thing you should be doing to your body is irreversible, mostly unrepairable SURGERY!

That's what you should do.

As for Dr Ball... If £130 gets you a thorough assessment of your hair in person, and he's able to tell you how many scalp and beard grafts you have available, and it's a good number, then you might be fortunate enough to have enough in the bank to cover you current hair loss and future hair loss. But you'll be committing to two or three surgeries, and there's no guarantee that each will work out perfectly. Dr Ball is a distinguished surgeon. I'd be happy to hand him £130 for an expert, in person analysis and assessment, and indeed I am considering getting such an assessment of my hair from him prior to any surgery I undertake.

Thanks man, appreciate the message.  I am contemplating this, to be honest, shaving and then rocking the beard, sucks, but oh well...
Also, the thing that annoys me, paying GBP 130.00 doesnt get you face to face with Dr. Ball, this is for his rugby clinic, where you meet with someone called Eva Proudman, who then goes through your hair.  So yes, this is why I am a bit annoyed by it, given their availability, and me having to book work off for a holiday for this and take a 2 hour train there and back.  

Is there anyway I can mentally re-train my mind or prep for topical fin, or is that just an absolutel no go for me.

[Berba11]

6 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

Thanks man, appreciate the message.  I am contemplating this, to be honest, shaving and then rocking the beard, sucks, but oh well...
Also, the thing that annoys me, paying GBP 130.00 doesnt get you face to face with Dr. Ball, this is for his rugby clinic, where you meet with someone called Eva Proudman, who then goes through your hair.  So yes, this is why I am a bit annoyed by it, given their availability, and me having to book work off for a holiday for this and take a 2 hour train there and back.  

Is there anyway I can mentally re-train my mind or prep for topical fin, or is that just an absolutel no go for me.

Have you asked to see Dr Ball specifically and are willing to go to Portsmouth?

[bald-and-bearded]

How's your beard and body hair?

 

 

A paper on using body hair by Dr Umar: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27241361/

 

[Curious25]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Get on medication, if you don’t want too, shave your head. Those are your options. Hair Transplants do not stop or cure hair loss. 

That's not what you have done though is it? 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, Curious25 said:

That's not what you have done though is it? 

I’m on medication, just not finasteride. Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. 

[Hairtroubles]

6 hours ago, TorontoMan said:

The hard truth is you're far gone for 29 years old and if you're not willing to take medication, then you will just continue to lose everything. A hair transplant will be tough as you won't get great enough coverage and your donor is likely to minaturize in some parts in the future without meds as well. 

What I suggest is that you buzz your head down, you should have already done this. Take a look at how you feel about your look, many guys are shocked at how fine they are with this look, and if this is something you are fine with, then you win this right here and you could move on with your life. 

If not, the next step for me would be to consider SMP as an option too. More and more im seeing some incredible results from SMP, that is a functional solution for so many men. Ill attach some examples of SMP with hair transplant for coverage, but you could also find amazing results with SMP on its own. 

If that is not something you want to consider, but I think you should, then your only other option is to make a plan to slowly introduce medication to get over your fear. There are many guys on here alone and even more that I've talked to outside of this forum who have been on it successfully for many years. Dr. Hasson is rumoured to have been on fin for many years and conceived two daughters in that same time. If you could go on a course and try to get some regrowth, you could become a better candidate for surgery. However, I believe that without some course of action, you will set yourself up to pay a lot of money and be full of expectation for a what hair transplant could do for you and come out disappointed. 

Finasteride isnt the only option too, you have topical anti androgens as well like CB and Fluridil you could introduce first. However there is so much data supporting finasteride, it is the easiest starting point imo. I don't want to sell false hope to members on the forum, but there is a lot of stuff being trialed right now for hair loss that should be coming out in just a few years. If these things are shown to work, you may only need to use finasteride for a little while to maintain you until then. I would try a small dose of fin for the first 4 months, say 0.25 mg every other day, and slowly work your way up as you get more confident that its fine for you. This is what I did when I started and I'm glad I started slow. 

Hey man, SMP looks quite good, if I get it done, does that stop me from getting a Hair Transplant in the future? Looks good to be honest.

I don't know man, all this is a lot.  I might just go see Eva Proudman (Dr. Balls associate) and pay the 130.  This is greatly affecting me, badly.

How does a hair transplant with SMP work by the way?

I dont know man, Fin just scares me too much from what I have read. 

And most of all, what medication is being introduced, how do you know about this, when and where?

[Hairtroubles]

5 hours ago, bald-and-bearded said:

How's your beard and body hair?

 

 

A paper on using body hair by Dr Umar: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27241361/

 

Who did the first transplant, literally?

[Hairtroubles]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m on medication, just not finasteride. Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. 

Hey Melvin, what is keto and azaleic acid, does this stop DHT?

Also, you got a transplant right?

[Hairtroubles]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I’m on medication, just not finasteride. Oral minox, keto, azaleic acid. 

Melvin I just watched your hair transplant journey video.  Surely I can wait for my hair to get as bad as yours, and do you what you did, you look a different person.  Like, what did you do, where did you go, what was your game plan, seeing your video gives me a bit of hope, please can you tell me honestly, knowing I dont want to take fin - please.

[Hairtroubles]

6 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Get on medication, if you don’t want too, shave your head. Those are your options. Hair Transplants do not stop or cure hair loss. 

Melvin, youre not on finasteride either bro, so seeing your results gives me hope.  Can i not follow the same path that you are on?

[Melvin- Admin]

14 minutes ago, Hairtroubles said:

Melvin, youre not on finasteride either bro, so seeing your results gives me hope.  Can i not follow the same path that you are on?

That’s definitely better than nothing, but remember, it’s a real possibility you can get permanent shock loss. I had a lot less hair than you, so the risk wasn’t that much. It would be a better choice to get on medication first, see how you respond and then reassess in a year. 

[Hairtroubles]

1 minute ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

That’s definitely better than nothing, but remember, it’s a real possibility you can get permanent shock loss. I had a lot less hair than you, so the risk wasn’t that much. It would be a better choice to get on medication first, see how you respond and then reassess in a year. 

Is that you in the picture?

Can you let me know bro please where you want, what you did, for real, you definitely had a lot less hair, i wouldn't mind losing it knowing I could then get to your place.

So how many transplants did you have, where did you go, like can you please take the time to write it out for me, like please.

I just want to know what you did so I can at least have some hope here.

[Melvin- Admin]

I went to Dr. Diep in los gatos, California. There’s no secret recipe. Choose a good surgeon who builds you a master plan and research this forum.

A lot of these hair loss influencers will try and sell you a “secret” but there is no secret, other than using this forum for research. I had three hair transplants, a total of 5,300 grafts, but full disclosure my crown is still thin, especially when its wet.

I use dermmatch in the crown and my hair looks perfect. Obviously, not everyone is gonna be okay with using concealer, but this is a reality. 
 

 

As for Azaleic acid it is a DHT blocker, not nearly as strong as finasteride, but better than nothing 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3207614/