Senior Member Curious25 Posted March 2, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 I find it painful watching these videos, but would be interested to hear others take on this. For me; 1) The difference in hair colour between the before and afters indicates that the lighting conditions are either different, or have been altered through photo editing. 2) The head angles are significantly different in the comparison photos. From the rear, the before picture is tilted further backwards, exposing more of the top of the crown/vertex - and similarly, from the front, the before picture is tilted further forwards, again, exposing more of the top of the crown/vertex areas. 3) The fact that Dr McGrath can't make eye contact with the camera or even the very man sat next to him whilst proclaiming how good the results are, speaks volumes to me - let alone the claim that one of his HT patients who underwent Exo therapy during surgery, later presented results at 2 months, 'comparable' with a patient at 8 months post surgery . . . . . 2 months!!! I mean come on, that's the level of exaggeration I'd expect to hear in a primary school playground. Surely if this was the case, you would be taking hundreds of photos of this phenomenon, plastering them around the web, and having the case study documented and published in a range of medical journals? I don't want to be cynical, because I would love to see this a success - it just doesn't give me hope with these two cowboys at the forefront of the movement. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mycroft Posted March 2, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 There's definitely something going on with either the lighting of the contrast, but for this particular instance I'm not sure it matters either way. If you've seen what this YouTuber looked like before any work was done you know he has severe hair loss without a bunch of native hair remaining, and at this point he's had a few surgeries that may have reduced the number of native hairs further still. All accounts of exosomes seem to indicate that they generally work like PRP in that they strengthen miniaturized hair to improve its cosmetic impact, and it's extremely rare to see dormant follicles that haven't been producing hair suddenly start kicking again. This guy was almost certainly going to have little to no response right from the start. Right now with everything I've seen I would probably put exosomes in a similar category to PRP with the one stipulation that exosomes sourced from a quality company are probably more consistent than PRP because you don't have as many variables to deal with. However, that X factor of the patient's physiology is just as fickle with this as it is with PRP. Some people seem like they respond very well, others have very little to show for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Style22 Posted March 2, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 Really don’t like how Dr. McGrath claims he has had only 4 or 5 non responders out of 800. Complete bs IMO. The thread I started with my exosomes treatment there were several that claimed zero results. Along with myself. Very very expensive so I would caution anyone interested in doing this to understand it’s probably more of a coin flip on getting results. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 2, 2021 Administrators Share Posted March 2, 2021 I agree with your assessments, I really wish they’d take a scientific approach and measure hair density, as opposed to using flash photography. 2 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member TorontoMan Posted March 2, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 Personally I think David is a bullshitter.. hes finding opportunities now to endorse some of these new products because hes got some following on his youtube channel and sees the opportunity to make money. He still pushes those laser helmets that clearly don't do shit. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Curious25 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 35 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said: I agree with your assessments, I really wish they’d take a scientific approach and measure hair density, as opposed to using flash photography. Exactly - you’d expect a medical profesional to primarily be using these simple kinds of density measurements for the analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Curious25 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 @DrTBarghouthi Hey Dr, I remember reading one of your posts in a thread being seemingly positive RE. exosomes - have you seen any peer shared results or data that led to the optimism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTBarghouthi Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 Thanks for the mention. I am hopeful certainly like anyone hoping for more positive medical breakthroughs that could enhance results or even slow down hairloss. We do need more robust studies on that and if you do a simple search on pubmed (exosomes for hair loss) you will have few studies that are generally positive in that sense. However, we do need bigger well designed studies. Exosomes derived from human dermal papilla cells promote hair growth in cultured human hair follicles and augment the hair-inductive capacity of cultured dermal papilla spheres Mi H Kwack 1, Chang H Seo 2, Prakash Gangadaran 3, Byeong-Cheol Ahn 3, Moon K Kim 1 4, Jung C Kim 1 4, Young K Sung 1 Current advances in stem cell-based therapies for hair regeneration. Yuan AR, Bian Q, Gao JQ. Advances in Stem Cell-Based Therapy for Hair Loss. Egger A, Tomic-Canic M, Tosti A 1 Dr. Taleb Barghouthi approved and recommended on the Hair Transplant Network. You can schedule a virtual consultation with me here. Contact me via WhatsApp at +962798378396 (Jordan) Social media: Facebook YouTube Twitter Instagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member RandoBrando517 Posted March 2, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 DiMuzio is a schill, I don’t like that he’s not honest about endorsing this doctor when they clearly have a business relationship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 2, 2021 Administrators Share Posted March 2, 2021 1 hour ago, DrTBarghouthi said: Thanks for the mention. I am hopeful certainly like anyone hoping for more positive medical breakthroughs that could enhance results or even slow down hairloss. We do need more robust studies on that and if you do a simple search on pubmed (exosomes for hair loss) you will have few studies that are generally positive in that sense. However, we do need bigger well designed studies. Exosomes derived from human dermal papilla cells promote hair growth in cultured human hair follicles and augment the hair-inductive capacity of cultured dermal papilla spheres Mi H Kwack 1, Chang H Seo 2, Prakash Gangadaran 3, Byeong-Cheol Ahn 3, Moon K Kim 1 4, Jung C Kim 1 4, Young K Sung 1 Current advances in stem cell-based therapies for hair regeneration. Yuan AR, Bian Q, Gao JQ. Advances in Stem Cell-Based Therapy for Hair Loss. Egger A, Tomic-Canic M, Tosti A Thanks for sharing Dr. Bargouthi, after speaking with Dr. Shapiro, he hopes to design some really good studies with exosome therapy. I’m definitely skeptical but hopeful that it could work. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Mycroft Posted March 2, 2021 Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said: I agree with your assessments, I really wish they’d take a scientific approach and measure hair density, as opposed to using flash photography. I think it's important to have the photos as well, but it's imperative that they attempt to make those photos as "scientific" as possible, including trichoscopy. Like we discussed in your oral minoxidil thread, it is possible to have statistically significant improvement in hair count without it amounting to much in the way of cosmetic benefit. Ideally, I'd like to see numbers indicating count of vellus and terminal hairs, including vellus hairs that have become terminal, trichoscopy photos of the same area, and then some photos of the head to see the impact. It would also be valuable to have an overall percentage indication of responders, maybe into a few tiers like minimal response, moderate response, significant response, and true non-responders. The most interesting thing I took away from oral minoxidil studies was that there were virtually zero non-responders which is very different from the topical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTBarghouthi Posted March 2, 2021 Share Posted March 2, 2021 3 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said: Thanks for sharing Dr. Bargouthi, after speaking with Dr. Shapiro, he hopes to design some really good studies with exosome therapy. I’m definitely skeptical but hopeful that it could work. Yes we might actually source it at our practice and do some clinic based testing regarding results before deciding whether to provide it. I hope better studies can give us better answers soon. Dr. Taleb Barghouthi approved and recommended on the Hair Transplant Network. You can schedule a virtual consultation with me here. Contact me via WhatsApp at +962798378396 (Jordan) Social media: Facebook YouTube Twitter Instagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Curious25 Posted March 2, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 2, 2021 13 minutes ago, DrTBarghouthi said: Yes we might actually source it at our practice and do some clinic based testing regarding results before deciding whether to provide it. I hope better studies can give us better answers soon. That would be great, especially with your active involvement with the forum. Where and when would you be looking to source the product from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 2, 2021 Administrators Share Posted March 2, 2021 2 hours ago, DrTBarghouthi said: Yes we might actually source it at our practice and do some clinic based testing regarding results before deciding whether to provide it. I hope better studies can give us better answers soon. That would be amazing, a simple way is to get a densimeter that measures the hairs per cm2. If you posted this on the forum and YouTube it could be huge. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTBarghouthi Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 6 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said: That would be amazing, a simple way is to get a densimeter that measures the hairs per cm2. If you posted this on the forum and YouTube it could be huge. Yes absolutely. I use a “haircheck” device that gives is a hair mass index. Basically a number that is a function of number of hairs and calibre per fixed area (2x2cm) square. Dr. Taleb Barghouthi approved and recommended on the Hair Transplant Network. You can schedule a virtual consultation with me here. Contact me via WhatsApp at +962798378396 (Jordan) Social media: Facebook YouTube Twitter Instagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTBarghouthi Posted March 3, 2021 Share Posted March 3, 2021 8 hours ago, Curious25 said: That would be great, especially with your active involvement with the forum. Where and when would you be looking to source the product from? I am looking still at different suppliers. Regulatory issues regarding such treatments can be an issue and a lengthy process as a first time thing. Hopefully bu summer time if no real issues come up. 1 Dr. Taleb Barghouthi approved and recommended on the Hair Transplant Network. You can schedule a virtual consultation with me here. Contact me via WhatsApp at +962798378396 (Jordan) Social media: Facebook YouTube Twitter Instagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Curious25 Posted March 3, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 3, 2021 Sounds promising doctor, I’m sure the community will be counting on you with this one, as your ethics and reputation are both great. I hope by summer you will be able to offer something! 🤞🏻 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 3, 2021 Administrators Share Posted March 3, 2021 9 hours ago, DrTBarghouthi said: Yes absolutely. I use a “haircheck” device that gives is a hair mass index. Basically a number that is a function of number of hairs and calibre per fixed area (2x2cm) square. Look forward to seeing more of this, please keep me updated. If it’s promising, I’ll be headed to you 😁 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Curious25 Posted March 3, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said: Look forward to seeing more of this, please keep me updated. If it’s promising, I’ll be headed to you 😁 And me! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Phab Posted March 18, 2021 Regular Member Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) On 3/2/2021 at 10:45 AM, Curious25 said: Exactly - you’d expect a medical profesional to primarily be using these simple kinds of density measurements for the analysis. Yeah, I agree. Look at this doctor (below video), she measured it and concluded that PRP was helpful for about 58% of patients. Why he doesn't do the same? He doesn't have a scientific background. That measurement could be done with Exosomes too. But assuming Exosomes is better than PRP, we could say it's more than 58%, but I agree that it will be far from 99%. I'd be willing to try if it wasn't so expensive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1HnJxFH1Sg Edited March 18, 2021 by Phab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 19, 2021 Administrators Share Posted March 19, 2021 @DrTBarghouthi Is there a specific reason why exosome treatment is so expensive? Is this dependent on the doctor? I’ve heard some doctors charge $5,000 which seems crazy to me. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTBarghouthi Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 1 minute ago, Melvin-Moderator said: @DrTBarghouthi Is there a specific reason why exosome treatment is so expensive? Is this dependent on the doctor? I’ve heard some doctors charge $5,000 which seems crazy to me. The vials themselves are quite expensive but I dont have an exact price range for all companies. They are definitely pricier than PRP. However, I am sure there is some variation in pricing according to doctors and location. Also companies tend to charge differently in different markets depending on levels of income, customs etc. We tend to have high custom costs on cosmetic material but in exchange companies tend to give us good discounted prices usually. For example, a PRP session at our clinic is around 250 USD which is probably 25% of the US price. Dr. Taleb Barghouthi approved and recommended on the Hair Transplant Network. You can schedule a virtual consultation with me here. Contact me via WhatsApp at +962798378396 (Jordan) Social media: Facebook YouTube Twitter Instagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Curious25 Posted March 19, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 19, 2021 2 hours ago, DrTBarghouthi said: The vials themselves are quite expensive but I dont have an exact price range for all companies. They are definitely pricier than PRP. However, I am sure there is some variation in pricing according to doctors and location. Also companies tend to charge differently in different markets depending on levels of income, customs etc. We tend to have high custom costs on cosmetic material but in exchange companies tend to give us good discounted prices usually. For example, a PRP session at our clinic is around 250 USD which is probably 25% of the US price. Are you still hoping to trial the exosome treatment at your clinic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTBarghouthi Posted March 19, 2021 Share Posted March 19, 2021 Just now, Curious25 said: Are you still hoping to trial the exosome treatment at your clinic ? Yes we are hoping to once we get it approved by the regulatory body here hopefully. We just have to go through some approvals. 1 Dr. Taleb Barghouthi approved and recommended on the Hair Transplant Network. You can schedule a virtual consultation with me here. Contact me via WhatsApp at +962798378396 (Jordan) Social media: Facebook YouTube Twitter Instagram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Curious25 Posted March 19, 2021 Author Senior Member Share Posted March 19, 2021 6 minutes ago, DrTBarghouthi said: Yes we are hoping to once we get it approved by the regulatory body here hopefully. We just have to go through some approvals. Good luck ! Be sure to keep the community updated! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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