Dr. Rahal - 2,401 FUE NW2

[TorontoMan]

On 4/9/2021 at 2:39 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Damn how did I miss your update. You give me massive hair envy. Damn!

Lol it looks like I missed this comment too. Thank you man. Have you been on oral min? How has it been treating you ?

[TrialAcc]

Damn man unreal work. I'm a Toronto man myself, a year younger then you with somewhat similar loss that's just gone a bit closer to NW3. I'm really thinking about booking a consultation with Rahal myself. How much roughly did you pay per graft? 

[TorontoMan]

6 hours ago, TrialAcc said:

Damn man unreal work. I'm a Toronto man myself, a year younger then you with somewhat similar loss that's just gone a bit closer to NW3. I'm really thinking about booking a consultation with Rahal myself. How much roughly did you pay per graft? 

It was $6 per graft 

[TrialAcc]

1 hour ago, TorontoMan said:

It was $6 per graft 

Damn, a bit pricey but the work speaks for itself. Did Dr. Rahal preform a miniaturization test on you to see what your future donor supply would be? I saw you said it was around 8000~ total but I was just curious if they were just estimating or if they checked. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by TrialAcc

[TorontoMan]

14 hours ago, TrialAcc said:

Damn, a bit pricey but the work speaks for itself. Did Dr. Rahal preform a miniaturization test on you to see what your future donor supply would be? I saw you said it was around 8000~ total but I was just curious if they were just estimating or if they checked. 

Dr. Rahal took a good look at my head to analyze my pattern of loss and my donor capacity. He didnt do this using some specific tool or microscope because quite frankly its likely not relevant to do so, as a good look at my donor now would tell you that my hair in this area was strong and looking at it with a microscope wouldnt do much to confirm that or have any base to predict the future. He asked me about my family history, I told him what it was like on both sides to just maybe get a slighly better indication, but he made sure that I'm aware that hair loss is progressive, and I think thats the most important thing to understand. No one could tell you exactly where you'll end up and what your donor will look like exactly. He pointed out to me that my crown shows slight signs of thinning, which wasn't news to me, so in the future I'll have to be considerate of where my next grafts will go, but its also been well managed I believe by meds so far thankfully. 

Going off of my father, hes 65 and now thinner throughout the top with little recession in his hairline, but his donor area is very solid. That might give me a better chance that my donor will stay solid too throughout the years, but its not written in stone. The extracting tech was the one who told me he believes I could go for another 2 sessions of about 3k grafts, so another 6k to total 8k. I really hope that hes right. & tbh the price is comparable to what you'll find with many top doctors that are the only ones worth going to. As Canadian boys, going to a doctor in the states is really hard because the conversion taxes us another 30%, but even if you were to go to europe to visit say the bisangas, freitas even coutos, the price is comparable. Having gone through this procedure now, I realize just how important it is to get quality work done and not mind the price. I've seen too many guys try to save a few thousands  dollars and get diminished returns because of it. Try not to think about the price if you can, easier said than done, but you have to pay nice or pay twice. 

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by TorontoMan

[TrialAcc]

3 hours ago, TorontoMan said:

Dr. Rahal took a good look at my head to analyze my pattern of loss and my donor capacity. He didnt do this using some specific tool or microscope because quite frankly its likely not relevant to do so, as a good look at my donor now would tell you that my hair in this area was strong and looking at it with a microscope wouldnt do much to confirm that or have any base to predict the future. He asked me about my family history, I told him what it was like on both sides to just maybe get a slighly better indication, but he made sure that I'm aware that hair loss is progressive, and I think thats the most important thing to understand. No one could tell you exactly where you'll end up and what your donor will look like exactly. He pointed out to me that my crown shows slight signs of thinning, which wasn't news to me, so in the future I'll have to be considerate of where my next grafts will go, but its also been well managed I believe by meds so far thankfully. 

Going off of my father, hes 65 and now thinner throughout the top with little recession in his hairline, but his donor area is very solid. That might give me a better chance that my donor will stay solid too throughout the years, but its not written in stone. The extracting tech was the one who told me he believes I could go for another 2 sessions of about 3k grafts, so another 6k to total 8k. I really hope that hes right. & tbh the price is comparable to what you'll find with many top doctors that are the only ones worth going to. As Canadian boys, going to a doctor in the states is really hard because the conversion taxes us another 30%, but even if you were to go to europe to visit say the bisangas, freitas even coutos, the price is comparable. Having gone through this procedure now, I realize just how important it is to get quality work done and not mind the price. I've seen too many guys try to save a few thousands  dollars and get diminished returns because of it. Try not to think about the price if you can, easier said than done, but you have to pay nice or pay twice. 

 

Thanks again for the reply. I agree 100%. The amount of people who are willing to cut costs on things like this blows my mind. That being said, there are a lot of doctors in Canada/US that charge ridiculous prices and don't have the results to back it up. For guys like H&W and Rahal though, it's well worth it. 

I also saw you were contemplating CB. Where were you looking to source it from? 

Edited April 19, 2021 by TrialAcc

[TorontoMan]

1 hour ago, TrialAcc said:

Thanks again for the reply. I agree 100%. The amount of people who are willing to cut costs on things like this blows my mind. That being said, there are a lot of doctors in Canada/US that charge ridiculous prices and don't have the results to back it up. For guys like H&W and Rahal though, it's well worth it. 

I also saw you were contemplating CB. Where were you looking to source it from? 

Yeah I agree with that not every high price translates to a good outcome, I guess the tricky part is discerning that for yourself. For example Dr. Konior perhaps comes with a marginally better reputation than most clincis, but also at a price that I simply couldn't afford. However, if I didn't think there were other great options, I would have waited until I could afford konior (just as an example). Its up to you to discern that, but generally I think all the doctors worth going to do seem to come at a higher price. I'm also not the best person to answer this question in all honesty, there are guys on here who have done far more research on surgeons all over the world than I have. As I mentioned before, for myself Dr. Rahal's clinic offered a lot of experience, known for hairline work across the community, the best possible timing for me (almost 8 months and I still haven't had to go in to work), proximity so that I could always stay in touch and in the case that something went wrong I wasn't legally disadvantaged (this was just me thinking critically, never assumed anything would go wrong), and it was something I was able to commit to. 

As for CB, you could them from third party stores like science.bio and anagen.com, however, the current price of CB which is roughly around 99USD per gram prohibits its use long term at an adequate dosage, at least the effective doses presented in the studies so far. I'm currently in contact with a rep from a Pharmacutical lab in Wuhan who offers CB at a much better price. However, the problem becomes legitimacy and the guarantee of purity. I've talked to some guys across other forums who have dealt with this particular lab and have tested their CB to be of very high purity, so I'm hoping that could work out. The other problem of course is that while safety behind CB looks very promising, we also don't know how well it works, and so you have to sort of be willing to pay for something you can't yet fully measure the efficacy of. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by TorontoMan

[TrialAcc]

29 minutes ago, TorontoMan said:

Yeah I agree with that not every high price translates to a good outcome, I guess the tricky part is discerning that for yourself. For example Dr. Konior perhaps comes with a marginally better reputation than most clincis, but also at a price that I simply couldn't afford. However, if I didn't think there were other great options, I would have waited until I could afford konior (just as an example). Its up to you to discern that, but generally I think all the doctors worth going to do seem to come at a higher price. I'm also not the best person to answer this question in all honesty, there are guys on here who have done far more research on surgeons all over the world than I have. As I mentioned before, for myself Dr. Rahal's clinic offered a lot of experience, known for hairline work across the community, the best possible timing for me (almost 8 months and I still haven't had to go in to work), proximity so that I could always stay in touch and in the case that something went wrong I wasn't legally disadvantaged (this was just me thinking critically, never assumed anything would go wrong), and it was something I was able to commit to. 

As for CB, you could them from third party stores like science.bio and anagen.com, however, the current price of CB which is roughly around 99USD per gram prohibits its use long term at an adequate dosage, at least the effective doses presented in the studies so far. I'm currently in contact with a rep from a Pharmacutical lab in Wuhan who offers CB at a much better price. However, the problem becomes legitimacy and the guarantee of purity. I've talked to some guys across other forums who have dealt with this particular lab and have tested their CB to be of very high purity, so I'm hoping that could work out. The other problem of course is that while safety behind CB looks very promising, we also don't know how well it works, and so you have to sort of be willing to pay for something you can't yet fully measure the efficacy of. 

I wish I had taken the same lead as you and gone for a consult last summer, but I wasn't as actively thinking about getting something done as I am now. It's not going to be a popular view on here but I've come to view a frontal FUE as paying for an additional 10~ years of good looking hair. Even if no further treatments, cloning, etc came out and I ran out of grafts and had to shave my head as I approached 40~, I think I'd be okay with that trade off for the price and possibility of visible scaring on the donor zone. 

As for CB, I have similar thoughts as you do. I know it might not be as fully efficacious as RU or some other topical AAs, but seeing that it has safety data available I would much rather attempt to use CB then RU, even if it wont be an effective long term treatment. The 99$ a gram and purity question has been another hold up for me, because I also saw someone post the test results for Anagen and it was under 50% purity. 

Edited April 19, 2021 by TrialAcc

[TorontoMan]

1 minute ago, TrialAcc said:

I wish I had taken the same lead as you and gone for a consult last summer, but I wasn't as actively thinking about getting something done as I am now. 

As for CB, I have similar thoughts as you do. I know it might not be as fully efficacious as RU or some other topical AAs, but seeing that it has safety data available I would much rather attempt to use CB then RU, even if it wont be an effective long term treatment. The 99$ a gram and purity question has been another hold up for me, because I also saw someone post the test results for Anagen and it was under 50% purity. 

Yeah I've seen that as well, the only way I would commit to it is if I'm able to test the purity for myself, and atm that would only be worth doing if it was tested in a large batch as I'm assuming testing in a lab likely costs a good amount as well. But the only way I would commit to buying a large batch is if it was in a group buy. So perhaps if there were more ppl here in Toronto interested, or even elsewhere in NA, we could try a group buy and split the costs of testing?

[TrialAcc]

1 minute ago, TorontoMan said:

Yeah I've seen that as well, the only way I would commit to it is if I'm able to test the purity for myself, and atm that would only be worth doing if it was tested in a large batch as I'm assuming testing in a lab likely costs a good amount as well. But the only way I would commit to buying a large batch is if it was in a group buy. So perhaps if there were more ppl here in Toronto interested, or even elsewhere in NA, we could try a group buy and split the costs of testing?

Yeah I'd be open to that. Another option could be finding a dermatologist/hair doctor & compounding pharmacy that would just custom mix a higher dose then the 1% that's prescribed for acne. Might be more expensive but it would be 100% pure/safe and in the intended vehicle. 

[TorontoMan]

2 minutes ago, TrialAcc said:

Yeah I'd be open to that. Another option could be finding a dermatologist/hair doctor & compounding pharmacy that would just custom mix a higher dose then the 1% that's prescribed for acne. Might be more expensive but it would be 100% pure/safe and in the intended vehicle. 

I don't think its yet approved by "Health Canada" and I'm not sure you could get it yet. I'm suppose to be booking an apt with my derma soon so I'll run this by her. However, I do think this approach will come out far more expensive, but thats speculative, and worth investigating anyway. If you're interested private DM me and we could stay in contact about it. 

[TrialAcc]

20 minutes ago, TorontoMan said:

I don't think its yet approved by "Health Canada" and I'm not sure you could get it yet. I'm suppose to be booking an apt with my derma soon so I'll run this by her. However, I do think this approach will come out far more expensive, but thats speculative, and worth investigating anyway. If you're interested private DM me and we could stay in contact about it. 

I did see someone on another forum from Calgary who got it prescribed. The compounding pharmacy didn't have any yet to mix, though. I'll shoot you a PM.

[RandoBrando517]

You lucky SOB! What a hairline 

[TorontoMan]

14 hours ago, RandoBrando517 said:

You lucky SOB! What a hairline 

lmaoo, ill take it. thank you 

[TorontoMan]

Got a hold of the barber I use to go to before the lockdowns and got a great haircut from him. This is now 8 months, at this point I assume that all of the hairs that were suppose to grow in have and they should be maturing more as time progresses. When my sides are kept at a one clip I'm very happy with the appearance of the donor area. I stayed quiet about my transplant to my barber and I don't think he was able to notice anything, I think when I hit the 12 month mark I'll tell him and test his reaction. My current prevention regimen is 1mg Fin, 2.5 mg oral min & 1x 5% rogaine foam, once weekly microneedling at 1.5mm depth, and nizarol once a week, I believe my hair is stable on this, and this is what I'll stick to May - September. I'm considering my options with a topical AA (fluridil, CB, RU) and potentially once weekly topical dutasteride after the summer. For the time being I just want to go into the next 4 months and enjoy the weather, keep my mind off my hair and stay productive and start getting in shape. Now more than ever I've realized my mood is a direct reflection of my activity level so my goal is to improve that aspect of my life as well. I hope everyone is striving to find a balance in their lives 👊

 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by TorontoMan

[UnbaldEagle]

Unbelievable. This is probably the best result I've ever seen.

Congrats, man, enjoy your hair. 👏

[TorontoMan]

3 hours ago, UnbaldEagle said:

Unbelievable. This is probably the best result I've ever seen.

Congrats, man, enjoy your hair. 👏

Thank you bruv, I hope you’re doing well 

[Britanium]

Ok so this is definitely one of the best results I have ever seen. Like seriously man I have never had hair like that even when I was 18 😳

[giegnosiganoe]

You've conquered hair loss my dude. So why do you still bother throwing the kitchen sink at your hair? If I were you I'd probably just take oral finasteride/dutasteride, and that's it. I definitely wouldn't deal with the hassle of applying topical research chemicals. Are you trying to get off of the oral DHT blockers for some reason?

[Russ]

How has 2.5mg of oral minoxidil treating you? Have you noticed improvements, hair shed or side effects?

[OliverAtom]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:51 AM, TorontoMan said:

7 month update:

 

What a superb result! Love that density! That hair of yours is TOP!

Enjoy the new look 😉

[TorontoMan]

9 hours ago, giegnosiganoe said:

You've conquered hair loss my dude. So why do you still bother throwing the kitchen sink at your hair? If I were you I'd probably just take oral finasteride/dutasteride, and that's it. I definitely wouldn't deal with the hassle of applying topical research chemicals. Are you trying to get off of the oral DHT blockers for some reason?

I agree with you that finasteride alone is most of the leg work, and will hold me for a long time. I just think that adding a topical AA is that last piece to the insurance policy, and I would start slow and evaluate what it’s doing for me. Fluridil is the one I’m leaning towards most and it’s approved in Europe, and CB should be fda approved sometime soon. But no I don’t intend on coming off fin, in fact the opposite I’m mildly considering topical dutasteride as well. 
In your experience, has finasteride been proven to be enough throughout the years?

[TorontoMan]

9 hours ago, Russ said:

How has 2.5mg of oral minoxidil treating you? Have you noticed improvements, hair shed or side effects?

So far I’ve only been on 1.25 mg for the first 2 months as that was the deal with my dermatologist before I bumped to 2.5mg. I’ve now been on 2.5 mg for about a week, and I think 1.25 was to low to notice anything. So now I’ll know more in the coming months. In the beginning I felt mild dizziness and lightheaded, but it subsided. I don’t have any other problems otherwise, I go for 5km runs and have felt fine so far. I will update this thread about it as I give my monthly update. 

[TorontoMan]

18 hours ago, JohnAC71 said:

Ok so this is definitely one of the best results I have ever seen. Like seriously man I have never had hair like that even when I was 18 😳

 

6 hours ago, OliverAtom said:

What a superb result! Love that density! That hair of yours is TOP!

Enjoy the new look 😉

The amount of support on this forum is insane. Thank you guys!

[giegnosiganoe]

3 hours ago, TorontoMan said:

I agree with you that finasteride alone is most of the leg work, and will hold me for a long time. I just think that adding a topical AA is that last piece to the insurance policy, and I would start slow and evaluate what it’s doing for me. Fluridil is the one I’m leaning towards most and it’s approved in Europe, and CB should be fda approved sometime soon. But no I don’t intend on coming off fin, in fact the opposite I’m mildly considering topical dutasteride as well. 
In your experience, has finasteride been proven to be enough throughout the years?

Doesn't hurt to be on the safe side I guess, and I'm not sure of your family history, but there's no way I could deal with all of that unless it was absolutely necessary. Gotta say Clascoterone is pretty interesting though, even just as an acne cream (I have excess sebum production).

I was on fin for 6 months and now dut for 18 months. Seem to have maintained over these past 2 years though it would be difficult to tell by eye even if I did have +/- 10% changes. Ideally I'd have had someone like Dr. Lorenzo analyze my hair microscopically and put it in his calculator. Dr. Rassman also has an interesting tool that measures hair bulk. How do you track your progress to know what's working?