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1 hour ago, James C said:

I think he means just the fact there’s a linear scar back there mentally doesn’t sit right. Especially being a nw6-not having the back up plan to shave your head if a HT fails. That can cause anxiety.

Ohhh ok, yea I can understand that. I chose FUE myself, but in retrospect, I would’ve had more grafts if I did FUT first.

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As you have seen, Eugenix produces unbelievable results with FUE+BHT filling entire heads on those who have been turned away by other clinics. Given the evidence presented on the forum, in your s

I am curious if anyone has seen any reputable HT docs talk about the percentage more grafts/hairs that can be obtained by doing FUT 1st and stripping out versus doing only FUE. I have seen 1 ISHR

I recently had a FUT procedure at Hasson and Wong. During strip removal I asked Dr. Wong about this and he mentioned the difference to be between 2k less with FUE only. For extensive hair loss and if

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5 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Ohhh ok, yea I can understand that. I chose FUE myself, but in retrospect, I would’ve had more grafts if I did FUT first.

Yeah so the question is, do you think having a linear scar is worth an extra 2k grafts that you could of had in your crown.. or is the use of concealer in the back Efficient enough to go through life without worrying about It 

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The linear scar is not the only concern with FUT. The risk for nerve damage is greater, the surrounding donor follicles around the scar are not useable for future procedures, the risk for scalp laxity problems later on are greater.

With modern day FUE yields with elite surgeons equaling if not surpassing FUT in some cases, I think FUT is less and less appealing.

If your hair caliber is very thin though, it is probably a better option than FUE. But these cases are more unlikely than not. 

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42 minutes ago, James C said:

Yeah so the question is, do you think having a linear scar is worth an extra 2k grafts that you could of had in your crown.. or is the use of concealer in the back Efficient enough to go through life without worrying about It 

This really depends on your level of hair loss. If you have light thinning in the crown than it makes sense to use concealer and rule out a HT. Another thing is if hair loss is not so extensive again it probably makes more sense to go the FUE route.  If someone has very little hair left than the 2k would be quite beneficial as it can allow for better density overall. At the end of the day it really comes down to ones comfort level with a linear scar. 

Edited by deitel130
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Yep as a Norwood 5/6 there is no way I would have got coverage without starting out with x2 FUT. Trade off for me was a wide scar (even with revision) and no more short cuts. 

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2 hours ago, deitel130 said:

This really depends on your level of hair loss. If you have light thinning in the crown than it makes sense to use concealer and rule out a HT. Another thing is if hair loss is not so extensive again it probably makes more sense to go the FUE route.  If someone has very little hair left than the 2k would be quite beneficial as it can allow for better density overall. At the end of the day it really comes down to ones comfort level with a linear scar. 

I think it’s safe to say anyone would chose fue scarring over a linear scar. It comes down to what you’re willing to compromise. It seems like Melvin (and others that chose fue) would sacrifice less grafts + concealer for crown in exchange for No linear scar.. while some I’m sure say give me the extra 2k grafts. I’m still deciding 

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3 hours ago, asterix0 said:

The linear scar is not the only concern with FUT. The risk for nerve damage is greater, the surrounding donor follicles around the scar are not useable for future procedures, the risk for scalp laxity problems later on are greater.

With modern day FUE yields with elite surgeons equaling if not surpassing FUT in some cases, I think FUT is less and less appealing.

If your hair caliber is very thin though, it is probably a better option than FUE. But these cases are more unlikely than not. 

Yeah, dr. konior said He’s harvested 7-8k fue scalp grafts before. Obviously the guy must of had good donor quality. Mine is very dense myself. I’m also heading towards a Norwood 5/6ish all said and done. So i either put faith in a surgeon harvesting that many fue grafts plus beard grafts for additional coverage... or take the advice of many & go fut because I’ll end up an advanced pattern.

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48 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

Yep as a Norwood 5/6 there is no way I would have got coverage without starting out with x2 FUT. Trade off for me was a wide scar (even with revision) and no more short cuts. 

What kind of coverage do you have currently? And what kind of donor did you have prior to surgery that makes you think fue wouldn’t of landed you coverage?

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Full coverage, maybe went and had too many crown grafts. I still lack density across my mid section. Next up is BHT to sort that out. 
I definitely would be lacking with about 2k grafts less. So yes if I started all over i would have probably gone for a mega FUT and then progressed with FUE still. 
My FUTs were done to close together and back then I was not told to do scalp exercises. Thank god for my thick beard going forward 🤩

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10 hours ago, James C said:

I think he means just the fact there’s a linear scar back there mentally doesn’t sit right. Especially being a nw6-not having the back up plan to shave your head if a HT fails. That can cause anxiety.

Spot on..

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21 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

Full coverage, maybe went and had too many crown grafts. I still lack density across my mid section. Next up is BHT to sort that out. 
I definitely would be lacking with about 2k grafts less. So yes if I started all over i would have probably gone for a mega FUT and then progressed with FUE still. 
My FUTs were done to close together and back then I was not told to do scalp exercises. Thank god for my thick beard going forward 🤩

Atleast you got full coverage man. How many total scalp grafts did you get ? 

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4 minutes ago, James C said:

Atleast you got full coverage man. How many total scalp grafts did you get ? 

Well... that’s a good question. If we believed the totals from every Ht it would be around 10k. But In reality I would say no more than maybe 8.5k. 

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17 minutes ago, JohnAC71 said:

Well... that’s a good question. If we believed the totals from every Ht it would be around 10k. But In reality I would say no more than maybe 8.5k. 

That’s a boat load of scalp only grafts. No wonder you have full coverage. Part of me wants to just haul ass & strip out followed by fue to get the same result lol 

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Please be careful with clinics that just tell you what you want to hear, especially without having seen you in-person.

I did a "consult" with HLC, and I get the very strong vibe they would do a hair transplant on a car door if it could pay them. That isn't to say the results I've seen from them aren't very good, but how many aesthetically pleasing results have they documented for norwood 6/7's?

Dr Bisanga stretching out his shirt collar and making a loud "gulp" noise during your virtual consult isn't a good sign.

Please see a top surgeon in-person for a consult, and make sure they do a real microscopic examination of your hair.

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Another key point would be the number of procedures one is will to go through. A 7500 graft procedure may be completed in 2 FUT sessions while the same cannot be said for FUE. With a FUE it would take approximately 4 procedures so you have to also be willing to go through multiple recoveries. Also, a FUE recovery would be easier in comparison to a FUT. Nerve damage is exceedingly rare but is possible with both FUT and FUE. In my opinion there are advantages and disadvantages to both. Level of hair loss, coverage expectations, number of sessions, scaring and recovery period should all be factored into the decision. Finally, preventive medication is key as genetic hair loss is meant to be progressive and without any meds one will continue to lose hair even with surgery. 

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1 minute ago, hairlossPA said:

@JohnAC71 how old are you again? also do you have any thread about your journey on here? it’d be great to see a before and after if you are willing. you’ve been a great contributor to the forum

Thank you 🙏 I’m 49. I lost a lot of info from leaving and rejoining the forum. I was certainly going to post my next journey with BHT. I will see what I dig out too. 
 

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5 hours ago, PizzaWolf said:

Please be careful with clinics that just tell you what you want to hear, especially without having seen you in-person.

I did a "consult" with HLC, and I get the very strong vibe they would do a hair transplant on a car door if it could pay them. That isn't to say the results I've seen from them aren't very good, but how many aesthetically pleasing results have they documented for norwood 6/7's?

Dr Bisanga stretching out his shirt collar and making a loud "gulp" noise during your virtual consult isn't a good sign.

Please see a top surgeon in-person for a consult, and make sure they do a real microscopic examination of your hair.

At least personally speaking I did not get that feeling from either HLC or Dr Bisanga.. Both were measured and conservative in their approach... HLC only gave me a high level idea of what I can expect, but repeatedly said that an in person meeting will confirm things accurately.. Dr Bisanga, was not even willing to give a high level idea after I shared photos.. Only after I did a zoom call with Dr Bisanga, did he provide his opinion, and still said it can change once he meets in person.. Neither HLC nor Bisanga or for that matter any doctor/clinic (you can see the list in my orginal post) pushed for business beyond initial consult..

Although, you do raise a good question. Do people know where I can find some good norwood 6/7 cases out of HLC ? (I know they have a few on their website, but obviously, trying to find some beyond those.. My understanding is that they are shared more frequently on other forums ?)

Edited by InTheSix
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17 minutes ago, InTheSix said:

At least personally speaking I did not get that feeling from either HLC or Dr Bisanga.. Both were measured and conservative in their approach... HLC only gave me a high level idea of what I can expect, but repeatedly said that an in person meeting will confirm things accurately.. Dr Bisanga, was not even willing to give a high level idea after I shared photos.. Only after I did a zoom call with Dr Bisanga, did he provide his opinion, and still said it can change once he meets in person.. Neither HLC nor Bisanga or for that matter any doctor/clinic (you can see the list in my orginal post) pushed for business beyond initial consult..

I was implying that Bisanga was apprehensive about your case, with more realistic expectations. This seemed more ethical, especially since he hadn't seen you in person. I also think it might be telling that the most experienced surgeon you consulted with was also the least thrilled about performing surgery on you.

HLC is baiting you with the best case possibility. Car dealerships do the same thing. I'm not saying that I know if HLC is unethical, but I don't think they're on the same level with Dr. Bisanga.

HLC has more cases on the Bella Capelli (Italian) hair loss forums. I haven't seen any Norwood 6/7's there.

YouTuber MattDominance seems to like HLC and posted a 9000 graft result of theirs on a NW 6. He's kind of a weasel, though, and I'm not sure why he has access to HLC results that haven't been posted other places.

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14 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

I was implying that Bisanga was apprehensive about your case, with more realistic expectations. This seemed more ethical, especially since he hadn't seen you in person. I also think it might be telling that the most experienced surgeon you consulted with was also the least thrilled about performing surgery on you.

HLC is baiting you with the best case possibility. Car dealerships do the same thing. I'm not saying that I know if HLC is unethical, but I don't think they're on the same level with Dr. Bisanga.

I dont completely disagree with what you said but I also think the reality is not that linear... In my short experience, I also feel certain Dr/clinic have a certain clientele/density/end result that they want to cater too... especially some of the more recognized and well know clinics I feel tend to become more "selective".. Some can argue its because they are "ethical" (not sayin they arent) but others can equally make the case that they are simply looking for more poster cases... 

I just spoke to a consultant from one of the most highly recommended clinics in the world today (will avoid naming them), and the consultant basically said, our clinic looks to achieve a 'particular density' and I cant get that for you across your entire scalp, so cant help you (the only clinic so far that said sorry no can do)..... but frankly, I am not looking for their 'particular density', I am looking for the density and coverage that works for me...  so you can be the judge if they are 'ethical' clinics or good businesses or a blend of both...(kinda like a boxer who after fighting their way to a championship, only fights mediocre contenders in the hope to hang on to the title.. no doubt they are a good fighter, but certainly not a champion... I feel a lot of "TOP" clinics fall in this buckets)

Conversely their are clinics willing to take challenging cases (i.e high NWs).. and by same reasoning some may call them "unethical" while others will call them brave.. Once again, the truth probably lies in between..

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1 minute ago, InTheSix said:

I dont completely disagree with what you said but I also think the reality is not that linear... In my short experience, I also feel certain Dr/clinic have a certain clientele/density/end result that they want to cater too... especially some of the more recognized and well know clinics I feel tend to become more "selective".. Some can argue its because they are "ethical" (not sayin they arent) but others can equally make the case that they are simply looking for more poster cases... 

I just spoke to a consultant from one of the most highly recommended clinics in the world today (will avoid naming them), and the consultant basically said, our clinic looks to achieve a 'particular density' and I cant get that for you across your entire scalp, so cant help you (the only clinic so far that said sorry no can do)..... but frankly, I am not looking for their 'particular density', I am looking for the density and coverage that works for me...  so you can be the judge if they are 'ethical' clinics or good businesses or a blend of both...(kinda like a boxer who after fighting their way to a championship, only fights mediocre contenders in the hope to hang on to the title.. no doubt they are a good fighter, but certainly not a champion... I feel a lot of "TOP" clinics fall in this buckets)

Conversely their are clinics willing to take challenging cases (i.e high NWs).. and by same reasoning some may call them "unethical" while others will call them brave.. Once again, the truth probably lies in between..

That's completely fair.

At least from what I've seen (wish it was a little more), that HLC is an excellent clinic. I'm considering going there myself.

I do worry about clinics that never seem to turn down clients. HLC also copy pastes their on-line consult responses, which I REALLY don't like.

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4 minutes ago, PizzaWolf said:

That's completely fair.

At least from what I've seen (wish it was a little more), that HLC is an excellent clinic. I'm considering going there myself.

I do worry about clinics that never seem to turn down clients. HLC also copy pastes their on-line consult responses, which I REALLY don't like.

I too am leaning towards them, given that I feel they are good with BHT, something I "have" to rely on.. I spoke twice with their consultant.. and he said they are booking Feb 2021.. told them I was hoping Dec 2020, and he said I will let you know if their was any cancellation.. frankly, there has been no pressure to book dates, and both calls were requested by me. There has been no hard sell tactic at all, almost to a point where I wouldnt mind some lol..

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Just now, InTheSix said:

I too am leaning towards them, given that I feel they are good with BHT, something I "have" to rely on.. I spoke twice with their consultant.. and he said they are booking Feb 2021.. told them I was hoping Dec 2020, and he said I will let you know if their was any cancellation.. frankly, there has been no pressure to book dates, and both calls were requested by me. There has been no hard sell tactic at all, almost to a point where I wouldnt mind some lol..

I've had some communication issues with them. Kinda worried about that if I experience any issues post-surgery.

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Questions for all:

- When you guys do online consultations, how detailed are the recommendations you receive i.e do you get proposed plans drawn out ?  (So far, the only doctor that drew out a proposed plan on my own photo was Dr Bruno F.. I asked HLC for a drawn out plan, but didnt have any luck.. the rest of the consultations, I never asked, they never provided.. so just trying to find out what is the norm ?

- Eugenix: I see and read a lot of positive stuff about them and hopefully its all legit and all power to them. The one reservation I have is that are there a lot of long term Eugenix patient out there, that have shared their stories post several years of their HT with Eugenix ? the reason I ask is because I feel they do stretch the boundaries to help their patient (no saying that a bad thing) but wondering what are the results long term. If I recall correct, in one of their patients youtube vid, I believe he mentioned that the clinic used not just scalp and beard but also chest and sideburn hair... again, wondering how all these fair over long term (5-10 years)..

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