PRP treatment after HT

[Green76]

Hello,

 

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with PRP treatment post hair transplant. I had my HT in Turkey with Dr. Cinik and they advised me that PRP treatment is good for strengthening and growing hair following hair transplant. 
 

have you had PRP treatment post HT and have you noticed any difference? 

[Melvin- Admin]

I believe PRP depends on the centrifuge, not all PRP is created equal, one of the leading surgeons is Dr. Arocha for PRP, speak with @Steeeveand @Mycroft

[Mycroft]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I believe PRP depends on the centrifuge, not all PRP is created equal, one of the leading surgeons is Dr. Arocha for PRP, speak with @Steeeveand @Mycroft

This is correct. The machinery, concentration of platelets and growth factors, and even the distribution of the PRP into the scalp can all impact how effective it is as a treatment.

Dr. Cinik is correct in saying that PRP can often lead to earlier growth as well as strengthening of native hairs after a transplant, but I don't know enough about his protocol to say whether it works. I would say a good starting point is probably to ask him what system he uses, whether a grafting matrix like Acell is used, and if he has any patient results he can show you exhibiting early growth from his PRP.

[Steeeve]

I agree with everything @Mycroft says. As a matter of fact if you haven’t checked his thread you really should. There’s a lot of wealthy information in there.

I can only speak for having had my PRP treatment with my HT. I had one treatment 18 months ago in conjunction with the transplant and I believe it’s effects are still holding. That being said if Dr. Cinik is using the same methods as were used on both myself and Mycroft then I imagine the results would be similar.

I agree with speaking to Dr. Cinik and finding out what system he uses. If you feel so inclined you could email Dr. Arocha’s office and ask about the way he does it to compare. I would also suggest reaching out to Dr. Cooley’s office at the Cooley Hair Center. He’s often uses PRP to great effect, Mycroft would agree, and it might be useful to get multiple ideas of what a few different doctors do. Both Arocha and Cooley’s clinic typically get back to you within a day or so.

[arussell]

I have to agree with Mycroft and Steeeve in their comments about what kind of system is used and the addition of a Matrix.  I do want to interject to say we no longer promote PRP or PRP Plus as Dr. Cooley coined it after adding ACell to all applications.  PRP has been a good procedure and has had some good results but people need to know what part of what is responsible for healing or growth.  I think there is a lot of misunderstanding out there.  We have replaced PRP with EXOsomes.  EXO treatments are jammed packed little packages of stem cells with out the extra things that many PRP applications have.  It is the extra that the body has to clean up so to speak and this is part of the end results predictability. We have far less inflammation issues now.  Neither treatment is meant to grow hair where you no longer have it... (wishful thinking!!!) and if you understand the growth phases, if done in advance they can prepare the scalp and help the mini hair, if done at the time of this will enhance growth of because it is helping to rejuvenate the DHT effected hair while the new hair is taking root and beginning to grow.  Dr. Cooley will not agree to either done after a transplant in the initial healing phases so as not to introduce anything that could confuse the cycles.  

[Curious25]

31 minutes ago, arussell said:

I have to agree with Mycroft and Steeeve in their comments about what kind of system is used and the addition of a Matrix.  I do want to interject to say we no longer promote PRP or PRP Plus as Dr. Cooley coined it after adding ACell to all applications.  PRP has been a good procedure and has had some good results but people need to know what part of what is responsible for healing or growth.  I think there is a lot of misunderstanding out there.  We have replaced PRP with EXOsomes.  EXO treatments are jammed packed little packages of stem cells with out the extra things that many PRP applications have.  It is the extra that the body has to clean up so to speak and this is part of the end results predictability. We have far less inflammation issues now.  Neither treatment is meant to grow hair where you no longer have it... (wishful thinking!!!) and if you understand the growth phases, if done in advance they can prepare the scalp and help the mini hair, if done at the time of this will enhance growth of because it is helping to rejuvenate the DHT effected hair while the new hair is taking root and beginning to grow.  Dr. Cooley will not agree to either done after a transplant in the initial healing phases so as not to introduce anything that could confuse the cycles.  

Wow, so Dr Cooley doesn't provide any PRP or PRP Acell treatments anymore, because Exosomes are deemed to be far superior? 

Do you have any studies or patient before and afters you are able to provide that Dr Cooley has based this assumption from? 

Thankyou  

[arussell]

EXOsomes cause less inflammation and overall seem to work faster in the response phase.  They provide as good if not better results with no restrictions and less chance of swelling or headache that are the two most common complaints.    We do have before and after photo's that we share during a consultation.  Over all it seems to be more impressive but the jury is still out on if it last longer than PRP.  We still can do PRP but we do not promote it.

 

[arussell]

I also wanted to mention that just like most things in the hair world, a lot of things are largely unregulated.  Having said that, before Dr. Cooley ever promotes something, not only has he done research to determine validity but we also do treatments with patients permission at Dr. Cooley's expense.  AFTER he has collected his own data using visual observation, very good photography and discussing with his "group" , we then offer it to patients.  We have done 1000's of treatments of EXOsomes at this point it is newer but not experimental.  

[Steeeve]

8 hours ago, arussell said:

We have replaced PRP with EXOsomes.  

See that’s what I love about this forum. Learn something new everyday.

This also excellently highlights why research is so important!🙂

[DrTBarghouthi]

Knowing what system is being used is very important. PRP done in a standard lab tube is really pointless. Some practices promote giving it for multiple sessions after and if they use a simple lab tube as part of the cost then this is really ineffective. I prefer giving it just before putting the grafts in. Could lead to earlier growth. I also believe exosomes are great and we’re looking to switch to those once we can source them in our practice as they are still not readily available everywhere. 

[Mycroft]

On 10/29/2020 at 1:02 PM, arussell said:

Dr. Cooley will not agree to either done after a transplant in the initial healing phases so as not to introduce anything that could confuse the cycles.  

This is intriguing @arussell. To make sure I understand, are you saying that the external growth factors introduced during the early healing phase could possibly cause a shed and/or delay the growth of newly grafted hairs due to the signalling "resetting" things? I had never thought about this before but it seems to make sense.

[arussell]

Mycroft

I know you are aware that many things in this industry are largely unregulated so many of these recommendations come from practical experience.  Many things can contribute to the end result.  Dr. Cooley does not recommend anything added or done in the initial healing so that nothing disrupts the process.  The body thinks of the hair as non essential (the body can live without any) so if something is not exactly in balance then the hair can suffer.  If EXO treatments or PRP were to be introduced shortly after a transplant the brand new "roots" could be lifted.  Some is theoretical but who wants to risk a failure or poor or delayed result?  It also can "muddy" what is thought to be the end result.  We do combinations of transplants and treatments at the same time a lot. The new growth phase is the same for rejuvenated hair or the newly grafted hair.  We expect onset of growth to begin around 3 months.  If you do a treatment say at 2 months post transplant this will reset that growth phase.......

[Mycroft]

5 minutes ago, arussell said:

Mycroft

I know you are aware that many things in this industry are largely unregulated so many of these recommendations come from practical experience.  Many things can contribute to the end result.  Dr. Cooley does not recommend anything added or done in the initial healing so that nothing disrupts the process.  The body thinks of the hair as non essential (the body can live without any) so if something is not exactly in balance then the hair can suffer.  If EXO treatments or PRP were to be introduced shortly after a transplant the brand new "roots" could be lifted.  Some is theoretical but who wants to risk a failure or poor or delayed result?  It also can "muddy" what is thought to be the end result.  We do combinations of transplants and treatments at the same time a lot. The new growth phase is the same for rejuvenated hair or the newly grafted hair.  We expect onset of growth to begin around 3 months.  If you do a treatment say at 2 months post transplant this will reset that growth phase.......

That makes complete sense. Thank you for such a thorough response.

[tressful11]

@arussell Do you mind sharing more details about improved hair growth in patients due to exosomes? I watched some videos on YouTube that seem to be promoting it as a magical cure that can cause follicular neogenesis and regrow long dormant hairs? Can exosomes do that?
Or they just improve growth for hair that is currently miniaturising?

Edited October 31, 2020 by tressful11

[Curious25]

On 10/30/2020 at 12:25 AM, arussell said:

I also wanted to mention that just like most things in the hair world, a lot of things are largely unregulated.  Having said that, before Dr. Cooley ever promotes something, not only has he done research to determine validity but we also do treatments with patients permission at Dr. Cooley's expense.  AFTER he has collected his own data using visual observation, very good photography and discussing with his "group" , we then offer it to patients.  We have done 1000's of treatments of EXOsomes at this point it is newer but not experimental.  

It’s a shame you aren’t able to share the before and after pictures with the community - it would be highly beneficial for members researching available treatments here, and would also make logical business sense as if the results were impressive, it would almost certainly lead to a higher volume of enquiries at your office. 
 

I respect Dr C very much, but right now it’s hard to be too enthusiastic about Exo therapy if there are no reported studies to read, no clinics willing to showcase sole exo before and after pics, and no successful patient reviews . . Just a doctors word that it works better, and that he now promotes this, a $5k treatment, over a somewhat tried and tested former $1k treatment 🙂

[Kruchie]

On 10/28/2020 at 4:05 PM, Green76 said:

Hello,

 

I am wondering if anyone has any experience with PRP treatment post hair transplant. I had my HT in Turkey with Dr. Cinik and they advised me that PRP treatment is good for strengthening and growing hair following hair transplant. 
 

have you had PRP treatment post HT and have you noticed any difference? 

I had PRP during my HT with Cinik, I'm just shy of 4 months post op. My hair has grew in really well and I didn't shed much hair post op either. It could be that Dutasteride has helped with my situation or I just got lucky, but I do think the PRP helped at least with the healing. 

[arussell]

On 10/31/2020 at 2:46 AM, Curious25 said:

It’s a shame you aren’t able to share the before and after pictures with the community - it would be highly beneficial for members researching available treatments here, and would also make logical business sense as if the results were impressive, it would almost certainly lead to a higher volume of enquiries at your office. 
 

I respect Dr C very much, but right now it’s hard to be too enthusiastic about Exo therapy if there are no reported studies to read, no clinics willing to showcase sole exo before and after pics, and no successful patient reviews . . Just a doctors word that it works better, and that he now promotes this, a $5k treatment, over a somewhat tried and tested former $1k treatment 🙂

PRP was not $1000 ever.  This tells me that an inferior system that is inexpensive was used.  The kits alone are this much basically and that would be without actiators added such as ACell or the addition of Regenera.  I didn't say I could not share photo's, I have to gather them to post.  Our photo base is not setup on what is done but by patient so I have to have time to look for them.  I will put it this way, we do not advertise anything.  We give information and allow patients to make their own choices.  

[arussell]

On 10/31/2020 at 5:48 PM, Kruchie said:

I had PRP during my HT with Cinik, I'm just shy of 4 months post op. My hair has grew in really well and I didn't shed much hair post op either. It could be that Dutasteride has helped with my situation or I just got lucky, but I do think the PRP helped at least with the healing. 

We have offered treatments in combination with a transplant for years.  It makes sense it exacerbates healing but its true purpose it to rejuvenate hair that is withering away from DHT.  Results and impact depend on many things such as what system and techniques were used as well as activators.  Big difference is that with EXO it does not have the "junk" that is not needed so there is not any inflammation that is often an accompaniment of PRP.  Without this inflammation the activation takes place sooner than later and the addition of an activator is not needed.  

[Curious25]

5 hours ago, arussell said:

We have offered treatments in combination with a transplant for years.  It makes sense it exacerbates healing but its true purpose it to rejuvenate hair that is withering away from DHT.  Results and impact depend on many things such as what system and techniques were used as well as activators.  Big difference is that with EXO it does not have the "junk" that is not needed so there is not any inflammation that is often an accompaniment of PRP.  Without this inflammation the activation takes place sooner than later and the addition of an activator is not needed.  

Does the inflammation not have positive consequences in the form of further activating growth factors - isn’t this the methodology behind micro needling and derma rolling , to create small wounds and ‘inflame’ the area in order to stimulate growth factor response ? 

[Curious25]

5 hours ago, arussell said:

PRP was not $1000 ever.  This tells me that an inferior system that is inexpensive was used.  The kits alone are this much basically and that would be without actiators added such as ACell or the addition of Regenera.  I didn't say I could not share photo's, I have to gather them to post.  Our photo base is not setup on what is done but by patient so I have to have time to look for them.  I will put it this way, we do not advertise anything.  We give information and allow patients to make their own choices.  

I got a quote with a recommended clinic on here from the US for $1200 for a PRP session, or 3x for $3395 

 

 

[arussell]

4 minutes ago, Curious25 said:

I got a quote with a recommended clinic on here from the US for $1200 for a PRP session, or 3x for $3395 

 

 

On 10/30/2020 at 11:58 PM, tressful11 said:

@arussell Do you mind sharing more details about improved hair growth in patients due to exosomes? I watched some videos on YouTube that seem to be promoting it as a magical cure that can cause follicular neogenesis and regrow long dormant hairs? Can exosomes do that?
Or they just improve growth for hair that is currently miniaturising?

Here is some information that we share with patients.  It is not a magical cure but it is a step forward in this mystery called hair loss.  

What are Exosomes?

Exosomes are micro-vesicles, about 1/1000^th the size of a normal cell, and are involved in normal intercellular communication.  The exosomes in our treatment come from an FDA cleared biologics company that takes donated human mesenchymal stem cells, which are purified in the laboratory.  To date, no complications or adverse events have been reported using this product in applications ranging from wound healing, orthopedics, anti-aging, and hair restoration.  Mesenchymal derived exosomes are considered by many to be the most exciting new development in regenerative medicine.

The unique benefit of these exosomes is that they are stem cell derived and bring a wide array of growth factors to stimulate the body’s own natural regenerative potential.  When injected into the scalp, the result is thicker, healthier hair.  In the past, we injected platelets (PRP) and stem cells to thicken hair.  This involves introducing a lot of ‘unnecessary stuff’ with the goal of including ‘good stuff’ that will find its target.  After a PRP or stem cell treatment, the body has to clear away the debris left behind.  With Exosome therapy, a much higher concentration of ‘good stuff’ is injected and without the ‘unnecessary stuff’, providing a more effective procedure.  In this way, Exosomes are one step beyond PRP and ‘Stem Cell’ therapy. 

The exosomes contain 200+ growth factors that are known to promote healing, regenerate normal tissue, and for our purposes, to thicken hair.  These growth factors include VEGF, PDGF, and FGF, which have all been shown to thicken hair.  Importantly, MSC derived exosomes have been shown to contain Wnt 3a, which activates the Wnt/βcatenin pathway which is critical for hair regeneration.

How many treatments will I need?

We perform the treatment as a stand alone treatment.  The initial results become apparent in 3-6 months.  Our long experience has shown us that the duration of PRP treatment depended on the patient, both their genetics and whether they were taking hair loss medications (e.g. finasteride, minoxidil).  So a patient with strong hair loss genetics and not taking medications would require more frequent PRP treatments compared to a patient with mild genetics who was taking medications.  Results may vary from patient to patient, as will the duration of benefit.  Since the early experience with Exosomes is showing results superior to PRP and stem cells, we can surmise that the duration of benefit will be as long or longer.

 

 

 

 

[arussell]

18 minutes ago, Curious25 said:

Does the inflammation not have positive consequences in the form of further activating growth factors - isn’t this the methodology behind micro needling and derma rolling , to create small wounds and ‘inflame’ the area in order to stimulate growth factor response ? 

10 minutes ago, Curious25 said:

I got a quote with a recommended clinic on here from the US for $1200 for a PRP session, or 3x for $3395 

 

 

You are comparing apples to oranges.  I did not say the fee for other clinics.  We have never done a series of injections because it does not follow logical sense.  Your hair grows in cycles and the hair that can be rejuvenated is less with each cycle.  one of two ways to look at it, do it and when your results are apparent make a decision to do it on an annual or semi annual time frame or just wait until you feel you need more.  Ask this clinic what SYSTEM they use, if they use an activator, what there platelet count is, etc.  As stated, not all clinics offer the same thing, and not all treatments achieve the same results.

Stimulating growth factors to heal a wound is not the same as activating stem cells to rejuvenate "aging" ones.  

[Shifty]

@arussellI am very interested in the results especially with that amount of them done. I will be looking into PRP in the new year but if EXO's are superior I'd like to have as much info as possible on the ones you've already done. Thanks!  

[Curious25]

50 minutes ago, arussell said:

You are comparing apples to oranges.  I did not say the fee for other clinics.  We have never done a series of injections because it does not follow logical sense.  Your hair grows in cycles and the hair that can be rejuvenated is less with each cycle.  one of two ways to look at it, do it and when your results are apparent make a decision to do it on an annual or semi annual time frame or just wait until you feel you need more.  Ask this clinic what SYSTEM they use, if they use an activator, what there platelet count is, etc.  As stated, not all clinics offer the same thing, and not all treatments achieve the same results.

Stimulating growth factors to heal a wound is not the same as activating stem cells to rejuvenate "aging" ones.  

You insinuated that a $1000 PRP treatment would likely be inferior in quality to the one your clinic provided, a lesser quality system as such - I was simply pointing out a highly regarded clinic that is actively recommended on here, quoted me prices in this range for PRP. 

Anyway - it would be great if you could start and EXO thread, and showcasing your clinics results. I can assure you this will be of extreme interest to many people on the forum. 

[Kruchie]

7 hours ago, arussell said:

We have offered treatments in combination with a transplant for years.  It makes sense it exacerbates healing but its true purpose it to rejuvenate hair that is withering away from DHT.  Results and impact depend on many things such as what system and techniques were used as well as activators.  Big difference is that with EXO it does not have the "junk" that is not needed so there is not any inflammation that is often an accompaniment of PRP.  Without this inflammation the activation takes place sooner than later and the addition of an activator is not needed.  

Very interesting, thank you for that detailed response.