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Trichopigmentation macrophages expel particles


True

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Can anyone with a background in biochemistry please explain how Trichopigmentation particles are only 15 microns in size and can therefore pass through the macrophages of the body?

Does this mean that the particles are COMPLETELY expelled out of the body?

Thank you.

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I’m pretty sure there was a recent poster who said it does completely fade. Perhaps @hairthere can chime in.


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14 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I’m pretty sure there was a recent poster who said it does completely fade. Perhaps @hairthere can chime in.

Thanks, Melvin!

I'm concerned about how the macrophages eat up the pigments.  Milena Lardi stated that the pigments are centrifuged and filtered in a siliconic membrane in the size of only 15 microns.  She said the macrophages can eat up particles that are smaller than 20 microns.  I would like to know if the pigment/siliconic membrane will remain in the body even after the ink has disappeared from the scalp.

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As I have stated in a recent post, I had SMP done 5.5 years ago with the Milena Lardi pigments. Part of the treated area was removed by laser but the remaining pigment is still visible. If the immune system is meant to remove the pigments naturally in the timeline that Milena Lardi claims, I don't believe it.

 

 

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To Atown/True, if you are actually two different people, when I do a keyword search on tricho... and particles your posts come up here and there asking about this. Instead of creating redundant threads about the same question etc, a better tactic would be to keep bumping one thread until you get the answer.

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On 10/15/2020 at 11:44 AM, kirkland said:

As I have stated in a recent post, I had SMP done 5.5 years ago with the Milena Lardi pigments. Part of the treated area was removed by laser but the remaining pigment is still visible. If the immune system is meant to remove the pigments naturally in the timeline that Milena Lardi claims, I don't believe it.

Kirkland, 

Let's say that I recieve 10,000 ink dots if I undergo Trichopigmentation on my crown.  After a few years, will each and every dot fade or will some dots fade while other dots disappear completely?

I'm concerned with what happens after 10 years of touch-ups.  Does the practitioner ever touch up the Trico by putting new ink into a faded dot or will some dots have completely disappeared?  Do you think that after getting a touch up annually for 10-20 years that it may still look good?

Thanks!

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@True

Pigments break down in the epidermis over time but not evenly. If you consider a regular tattoo as a comparison as to how it ages over time and how it can be touched up at a later date, this will give you an understanding of what will happen with your SMP. It will fade and the sharp edges of the 'dots' will blur, creating more of a shadow than distinct points on the skin. There is nothing wrong with the blending of the dots into a shadow because it can  still provide the illusion of hair fullness when not observed very close up. A touch-up, which would re-create new, sharp dots over the 'shadow', is also not a bad thing because, from further away, it just looks like greater hair volume in the area.The color of certain pigments used in SMP can tone-shift over time, going from black to green which is why you want to go with a reputable SMP artist who uses the proper pigments for this procedure.  

At the end of it all, if you tire of the look or (fingers crossed), new topicals come online which have better success at, the very least, of thickening the crown, then you can just have the whole thing lasered off. Hope that is of help to you.

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8 hours ago, kirkland said:

@True

Pigments break down in the epidermis over time but not evenly. If you consider a regular tattoo as a comparison as to how it ages over time and how it can be touched up at a later date, this will give you an understanding of what will happen with your SMP. It will fade and the sharp edges of the 'dots' will blur, creating more of a shadow than distinct points on the skin. There is nothing wrong with the blending of the dots into a shadow because it can  still provide the illusion of hair fullness when not observed very close up. A touch-up, which would re-create new, sharp dots over the 'shadow', is also not a bad thing because, from further away, it just looks like greater hair volume in the area.The color of certain pigments used in SMP can tone-shift over time, going from black to green which is why you want to go with a reputable SMP artist who uses the proper pigments for this procedure.  

At the end of it all, if you tire of the look or (fingers crossed), new topicals come online which have better success at, the very least, of thickening the crown, then you can just have the whole thing lasered off. Hope that is of help to you.

Thanks!

I'm seriously considering Trichopigmentation with Milena Lardi pigments, but I really need to understand the exact mechanism by which the pigment is deposited, and eventually expelled by the body.

I contacted many sources, but nobody seems to understand exactly how long the ink lasts, whether it is really only 15 microns in particle size, whether it is filtered, centrifuged or encapsulated in a semi siliconic membrane or whether it goes into the lymph nodes or is expelled by the body somehow.

In regards to laser, I rather avoid that route.  The whole point of Trichopigmentation was its temporary pigments.

Edited by True
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9 hours ago, True said:

I'm seriously considering Trichopigmentation with Milena Lardi pigments

 

I think you probably shouldn't, considering how long you've been asking on the forum and after getting replies like @kirkland has provided. You're looking for a level of certainty and precision that's probably not possible. And I'm assuming you've reached out to Milena Lardi too, or at least one clinic that has an artist that trained under her and uses her pigments, since you say you've been seriously considering it.

 

I'm probably going to get some SMP to help camouflage a thin FUT scar, leaning more towards a longer lasting ink. Assuming that enough of the ink is able to stay successfully suspended in my skin for at least 2 or 3 years between touch ups will be acceptable to me. Other inks used in traditional tattoos have more harsh ingredients than SMP inks and there's no epidemics of people with body tattoos dropping dead or suffering from debilitating illnesses. And if the ink  doesn't fade fast enough, or doesn't look good enough, then I'll get it lasered off.

In my opinion, if you need more certainty than that you're not a good SMP candidate for the foreseeable future. Best advice is to stay in contact with a few legit SMP clinics to see what additional research and studies come along in the coming years that may be enough to make you feel comfortable.

 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
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On 10/15/2020 at 5:44 PM, kirkland said:

As I have stated in a recent post, I had SMP done 5.5 years ago with the Milena Lardi pigments. Part of the treated area was removed by laser but the remaining pigment is still visible. If the immune system is meant to remove the pigments naturally in the timeline that Milena Lardi claims, I don't believe it.

why did you get it removed by the way?

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My skin is sensitive and prone to redness. Likely the trauma from the needles caused the blood vessels to expand creating inflammation. The vessels never returned to their original size. This is what is known as Post-Inflammatory Erythema or PIE.

 

 

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oh right i see. if you dont mind me asking, do you think anything could have been done differently like needle size (i dont know, im guessing) that might have changed things. one reason im asking is coz i saw on another thread you think it's a risk for people with light sensitive skin, and i have light skin ... but i dont know if its sensitive tbh. im very likely going to go ahead with smp and just wondering about that. cheers.

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There was one mitigating factor that likely contributed to my outcome: sunburn. When I went for the treatment, I had a sunburned scalp after just having come from vacation. It was ill-advised for me to have the treatment in that condition and it most likely led to the trauma from the treatment. Make sure you don't make the same mistake I did and you should be fine but please make sure that the tech/clinic/tools are all above board.

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thanks very much for that. i hope it works out for you, surely it will disappear over time you think?

how do you feel then about your blush colour and do you have plans in the future for it?

btw, is there a standard criteria for judging the tech the tools and the clinic? i dont want to derail this thread btw. im asking coz i was gonna go to brandwood, and still likely will, it'd be silly not to tbh, but i just read that lockdown will continue in the uk for some time ... and i want to get smp soon ish ... and so im looking at smp clinics in the country i live in, which isnt the uk. im from the uk tho. 

btw sorry for the question dump.

 

Edited by amsterdam2zurich
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I had SMP done with a clinic which uses Milena Lardi pigments and technology with the owner trained by Milena Lardi in Milan. I felt comfortable with his knowledge and expertise and I know he has done outstanding work in New York. I had done research into SMP before deciding on this clinic so what I feel is important to note is the quality of the pigments (are they metal-based or plant-based); what is the max depth of the needle into the epidermis (should not go deeper than 0.5 mm); how experienced is the tech? If you can see a person who has had the SMP done in person by the tech, that is best. It's a big decision - one that you should feel quite comfortable with making. 

As for me, I am finally getting a hair transplant. Having the blush forced my hand since I want to cover the redness. It's really not that bad - more light pink but the outline of the SMP is still visible.

 

 

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In terms of the breaking down of the pigment, it's actually the liver that does all the hard work on anything foreign above the dermis. Other variable like the sun bleaching out the results also play a role. In short, one of the biggest differences between micropigmentation and SMP is the needle depth to which the ink is applied (as too is a 'normal' tattoo which enters even deeper into the dermis). The range and types of inks used today have come a long way. As I have always said, research SMP as you would a hair transplant. Their are pro's and con's in both SMP and trichopigmentation. The benefit of tricho obviously is that if it's turns out that it's not for you, then the commitment to it is not long. Also as you age you can adjust the hairline accordingly too. That said, I've been told by an excellent artist that there is a theory that the more touch ups required with tricho can result in tiny scars forming, due to higher rate of needle use over time. This is still a young, albeit fast evolving industry, in real terms and it will be interesting to see what lies hold in the future.

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great advise and points, i really appreciate all of it. tbh it seems that smp isn't much talked about on the hair forums and so i appreciate the info. is it me or is smp not much talked about anywhere? maybe its me. otoh if there is much less chit chat about smp than everything else, do you think this shows that it's still quite an unusual procedure. or do you just reckon most people who have smp dont consequently go on the forums. totally derailed this thread now tbh! BUT otoh there are many smp clinics about, of which the top class ones are branching out and branding in other cities, so there must be lots of men wanting and having smp. maybe they're shy! or maybe i am making a mountain from a molehill and that there are ongoing smp chats on forums.

btw i found a clinic in belgium, trained by milena lardi. 

 

Edited by amsterdam2zurich
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On 11/26/2020 at 2:55 AM, Gatsby said:

In terms of the breaking down of the pigment, it's actually the liver that does all the hard work on anything foreign above the dermis. Other variable like the sun bleaching out the results also play a role. In short, one of the biggest differences between micropigmentation and SMP is the needle depth to which the ink is applied (as too is a 'normal' tattoo which enters even deeper into the dermis). The range and types of inks used today have come a long way. As I have always said, research SMP as you would a hair transplant. Their are pro's and con's in both SMP and trichopigmentation. The benefit of tricho obviously is that if it's turns out that it's not for you, then the commitment to it is not long. Also as you age you can adjust the hairline accordingly too. That said, I've been told by an excellent artist that there is a theory that the more touch ups required with tricho can result in tiny scars forming, due to higher rate of needle use over time. This is still a young, albeit fast evolving industry, in real terms and it will be interesting to see what lies hold in the future.

I doubt about there being any scarring with Trichopigmentation since the needle does not penetrate deeper than the reticular dermis (upper dermis).

Edited by True
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12 hours ago, Gatsby said:

I don't believe there is any scarring with either tricho or SMP. I was told by a tricho practitioner that the 'possibility' is scarring. I'm not saying that's fact.

I'm still looking for someone to tell me:

* Has your Tricho disappeared 100%?

* With Tricho, where does the ink go after disappearing from the scalp?

* Does anyone have proof that the titanium dioxide and other pigments in Trichopigmentation are "encapsulated in a semi-siliconic membrane, which are eventually 'explelled' by the macrophages in the body?"

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  • 4 weeks later...
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Bro, please don't get SMP

You are clearly completely obsessed with the subject and will obsess daily about the result and make your life a living hell.

Nobody will give you these answers.

Mine never faded completely after 4 years. It's still there and it turned blue. Thankfully I did it on the side of my donor to test before doing it on top. It was done by a Dr. Not an SMP practitioner. 

 

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