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Anyone have a transplant before 25


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9 hours ago, transplantedphil said:

@JayLDDhas had 2 but for some reason i cant link his threads. Admittedly id argue he was one of the few that made a well informed decision having researched thoroughly and has a larger than average donor. 

this guy just posted to the forum having started at 20.

The problem with getting a HT under the age of 25 is that if it is noticeable it means your hairloss is likely aggressive and thus unpredictable. Ethical clinics cant reasonable predict what will happen in the future and guarantee you a long term result, so its neither in your best interest or good for a clinics reputation to proceed with surgery.

 

My hair has a waviness which really helps and my donor is definitely in the top 20%. My pattern is also a fairly conventional NW5 that doesn't extend down too far.

I have to assume that guy had a rarer underlying medical condition or form of hairloss, statistically the chance of being in that guys shoes is lower than the chance of going to Konior and getting bad results. 

In terms of stories of mistakes of people getting surgeries too young, I wouldn't consider this one of them. Without knowing for sure I think this is much closer to a "don't have a serious thyroid or 1/10000 fucked up health issue lurking before you have a transplant". I don't think its realistic to see this as a possibility for even 1% of people who have surgeries in their early 20s. After he final procedure he still had a great looking donor, now its a disaster. Totally out of bounds for typical hairloss cases.

Clinics can't reasonably predict what will happen with *anyone* in absolute, but its very clear whether or not someone is a NW5 or 6 final pattern even in the early to mid stages and for a NW5 they likely have enough lifetime grafts to start early in the process.

I've fixed the links in my profile now.

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1 hour ago, JayLDD said:

I have to assume that guy had a rarer underlying medical condition or form of hairloss, statistically the chance of being in that guys shoes is lower than the chance of going to Konior and getting bad results. 

In terms of stories of mistakes of people getting surgeries too young, I wouldn't consider this one of them. Without knowing for sure I think this is much closer to a "don't have a serious thyroid or 1/10000 fucked up health issue lurking before you have a transplant". I don't think its realistic to see this as a possibility for even 1% of people who have surgeries in their early 20s. After he final procedure he still had a great looking donor, now its a disaster. Totally out of bounds for typical hairloss cases.

Clinics can't reasonably predict what will happen with *anyone* in absolute, but its very clear whether or not someone is a NW5 or 6 final pattern even in the early to mid stages and for a NW5 they likely have enough lifetime grafts to start early in the process.

 

I'm in the same situation as the one posted. Why would you assume he had a rare underlying medical condition? I can tell you for myself I get a physical every year. At 53 years old I am not on any medication, I have normal blood pressure, normal cholesteral level, glucose under 100, everything else is in normal ranges except for biliruben which has always run a bit high, but was told last month at my physical that my kidneys are normal and my liver is functioning perfectly.

You also say it's very clear whether or not someone is a NW5 or 6 final pattern even in the early to mid stages. I can tell you this is not true at all. My pattern just continued to expand over the years. When I was 17 I only had a thin balding area down the center of my head and a thinning crown. The sides and back were very thick. The center area continued to widen for the next 35 years. You are totally wrong on this.

 

 

Al

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(formerly BeHappy)

I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here.

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24 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

 

I'm in the same situation as the one posted. Why would you assume he had a rare underlying medical condition? I can tell you for myself I get a physical every year. At 53 years old I am not on any medication, I have normal blood pressure, normal cholesteral level, glucose under 100, everything else is in normal ranges except for biliruben which has always run a bit high, but was told last month at my physical that my kidneys are normal and my liver is functioning perfectly.

You also say it's very clear whether or not someone is a NW5 or 6 final pattern even in the early to mid stages. I can tell you this is not true at all. My pattern just continued to expand over the years. When I was 17 I only had a thin balding area down the center of my head and a thinning crown. The sides and back were very thick. The center area continued to widen for the next 35 years. You are totally wrong on this.

 

 

"When I was 17 I only had a thin balding area down the center of my head and a thinning crown. The sides and back were very thick. The center area continued to widen for the next 35 years. You are totally wrong on this."

A surgeon can test for miniaturisation in these areas regardless to remove a degree of risk. The idea you were thinning in a NW5 pattern and then miraculously started thinning in a NW6 for example is ridiculous, virtually never seen it and I've seen tens of thousands of cases. What you're describing sounds like a NW4 pattern moving to a NW5. The overall *pattern* of area that thins doesn't change in 99% of cases. The back and sides do thin with age but there's no patient in their 20s on earth you'll convince not to have a procedure arguing that it won't look great in 3 decades, and rightly so because its not a sensible argument. The case of moth eaten donors magically occurring two decades down the track are massively abnormal.

Feel free to post photos to prove otherwise. NO ONE thins in a NW5 pattern, then overnight starts thinning in the NW6 once they've already lost their hair in the NW5 area. People continue to thin with age but we are talking decades, not short term.  You also mention that you're in your 50s and in this position, the reality is you've aged and are no spring chicken. The patient mentioned above is in their THIRTIES. There's no universe in which they didn't have a very unique form of hairloss or underlying condition for this to occur.

ht-210-months-post-op - right

Here is what this patient looked like after the surgeries.

This is now with the passing of time, only a decade after and in their early 30s:

0_IMG_20200920_133023.jpg

 

And you're going to tell me that its not due to a health or external circumstances? Give me a fucking break, this is incredibly rare and if it happened as regularly as you suggest no one would get transplants. This forum wouldn't exist if this was common. 

I'll say it again as clearly as possible, the risk of this occurring is significantly lower than the risk of having poor growth. If you're worried about this occurring then you ought to be a lot more worried about a low yield.

 

 

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The first picture is 1989 in the chair ready for my first hair transplant. I don't have a picture from the side view, but you can clearly see my side hair goes very far up the sides of my head.

The next picture is 1998. You can see the side hair line has moved downward considerable and is now moving past the top scars. Also note that the top scar  was completely covered at one point with thick hair or else a strip would not have been taken from there.

The next picture is around 2014

 

large.11094.jpg.d616f4a359b209806cebc743

 

image.png.fc538be0b86f2d07cee628b1c3f08ac6.png

 

 

image.png.7a476f83be03882239bfb0e734c8fa31.png

 

 

 

 

 

Al

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I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here.

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What would make you think a NW 7 didn't go though the NW scale? All NW 7 men had a full head of hair at some point. They weren't NW 1 and then overnight become NW 7. Your thinking that they don't go from NW 5 to NW 6 and then NW 7 doesn't make sense. How else would they get there?? Look at the chart below. Work backwards. Doesn't it make sense that some NW 7s were NW6 prior to being NW 7? Doesn't it make sense that NW 6 was previously a NW 5? Of course! This NW chart below is basically how my pattern progressed. From everything I've seen over the years I think the men who get crown loss early on are much more likely to go through the scale towards a NW 7 than those who only get frontal loss early on. That makes sense to me because with frontal loss and no crown loss even if you are losing the entire front half you still don't have a crown that can open up and start creeping into the side to create that NW 7 steep side loss.

 

image.png.a5f8c7a663d895a992d4a787d842e68d.png

 

Al

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(formerly BeHappy)

I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here.

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I had one at 25. 2000 grafts FUE to the hairline. I’d tell you not to do it, but if you’re anything like me then you’ll probably ignore the advice. I’ve now completely lost hair in the crown area and have to wear fibers behind my hairline (32 now) See photo below ghat illustrates Further hair loss behind the implanted hair line.
 

I’m currently in the process of Consulting with Dr Muresanu at Hattingen hair who has examined me in person and advised that my donor area has been over harvested during my first procedure. The plan now is to remove some of the grafts in the hairline to make it more natural and place these more centrally to blend back into the bald crown. I will then buzz my hair down in a final attempt to look natural (albeit bald but with some framing of the face). 
 

Failing this I’ve seen great results at Men’s ink SMP, which I had never really considered before but I believe this may be my only option and the results on their pages look great at least. I’d say try buzzing your hair first. If you don’t like it jump on minoxidil for a few years (I never did Until now it’s too late) and then consider your options in a few more years. I would definitely recommend Hattingen if you’re looking for naturalness. My experience with them has been completely honest so far and they will be honest with your expectations.

 

F33AEF1D-4B89-4546-BDFA-BB3DFB0B26D5.jpeg

Edited by Billy0716
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@transplantedphilDr Muresanu estimates he can get c.1000 grafts more from my donor without further over harvesting. Other doctors have said over video conference that they can get 2000+ more but I decided to proceed with Hattingen on the basis that naturalness is my primary goal, and of course that I have met with him and been examined in person. 

I was surprised that the area had been over harvested at such a small graft count but I wear my hair buzzed short on the sides and don’t have any scars so it could have been worse! 

I’ll Setup a post on Hattingen progress over the coming months.

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The reality is . . the large majority of HT patients will end up undergoing multiple procedures 'chasing their hairloss' - regardless of their age, and regardless of whether they take medication. 

Time frames will vary depending on a whole host of factors. 

Early onset of hair loss tends to typically point towards the patient being destined to reach a higher level on the NW scale. This of course, should be an issue that is factored in and given a lot of weight to the decision making.  

To use the thread of the poor patient who has reached a severe level of hairloss by his early 30's despite having undergone procedures, is probably the most extreme example of what could go wrong. I don't think this is a normal case by any means. 

I would also suggest that looking at @BeHappy's picture in 1989, (which I work out to be aged 22?) is another example of the extremities of hair loss, and again, is not common. 

My advice would be to create a shortlist of surgeons whose work you like the look of, and consult with as many of them as possible in person. Measure your donor densities, areas to be covered, miniaturisation map, and discuss in depth what you are wishing to achieve both now and in the future. 



 

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5 minutes ago, transplantedphil said:

No not a normal case, but I was using the two extremes (and later a case of someone who ended up getting a HT without a discernible net gain) to show all the possible outcomes of getting a HT at a younger age. This can be true for any age, and it can be a great success, or not. The issue in getting one is about understanding the risks, and being able to properly assess them - which admittedly can be a difficult thing to do. For those at a younger age the stakes are obviously higher as well, with predicting an outcome much more difficult.

Sound advice

Yep wasn't knocking you for posting it, as I think it is important for potential candidates to take as much information on board as possible. My comments were more directed towards the earlier debate between the other two posters as to whether that was a likely scenario or not. 

Edited by Curious25
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In answer to the question a definite no from me. I had a hair transplant at 18! I don't know of anyone who has had one that young. There is no way you can determine who is an ideal candidate for a hair transplant before the age of 25. By around 25 your hair loss pattern can be observed and identified to a large degree so you can plan what direction you need to take. I blame myself for what happened to me but if I was a hair transplant surgeon and an 18 year old with a curly head of hair came to see me I certainly wouldn't start sharpening the knife and getting out the receipt book!

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3 hours ago, Curious25 said:

The reality is . . the large majority of HT patients will end up undergoing multiple procedures 'chasing their hairloss' - regardless of their age, and regardless of whether they take medication. 

Yup.  This is why I prefer the phrase "hair need" over "hair greed".  

Dr. G: 1,000 grafts (FUT) 2008

Dr. Paul Shapiro: 2,348 grafts (FUT) 2009 ~ 1,999 grafts (FUT) 2011 ~ 300 grafts (Scar Reduction) 2013

Dr. Konior: 771 grafts (FUT) 2015 ~ 558 grafts (FUT) 2017 ~ 1,124 grafts (FUE) 2020

My Hair Transplant Journey with Shapiro Medical Group

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6 hours ago, transplantedphil said:
18 hours ago, BeHappy said:

 

The first picture is 1989 in the chair ready for my first hair transplant. I don't have a picture from the side view, but you can clearly see my side hair goes very far up the sides of my head.

The next picture is 1998. You can see the side hair line has moved downward considerable and is now moving past the top scars. Also note that the top scar  was completely covered at one point with thick hair or else a strip would not have been taken from there.

The next picture is around 2014

 

large.11094.jpg.d616f4a359b209806cebc743

 

image.png.fc538be0b86f2d07cee628b1c3f08ac6.png

 

 

image.png.7a476f83be03882239bfb0e734c8fa31.png

 

 

 

 

 

- which admittedly can be a difficult thing to do. For those at a younger age the stakes are obviously higher as well, with predicting an outcome much more difficult.

Sound advice

Modern hair transplants didn't exist in the 1980s and even the notion of looking at the donor for miniaturisation almost certainly didn't occur, you simply can't make judgement off this. 

Your hairloss pattern appears to be occurring throughout the entire donor area, you are beyond even a NW7. If you went to a doctor today about this they likely call it diffuse loss as well as a NW7 pattern. For the record, this probably 1/500 at a minimum in terms of how rare it is and your result appears to be DUPA beyond just the typical NW scale. If you don't have a family history of NW7s its likely in the realm of 1/1000. I can't remember the last time I've seen it in the real world. Your chances of a poor yield as a 30 year old transplant patient are immensely higher.

The 1989 photo as aesthetic as it may be quite frankly doesn't give any real information about thinning in the back or sides. And I doubt the surgeon even bothered to run their finger through the donor to check for thinning during a period where hair transplants were largely a capitalistic immoral act of brutality even putting age aside.

Your case reflects a risk, but it doesn't reflect one at the level of normality and age isn't a major consideration here. Even if you had surgery in your 30s, it would have made absolutely no difference to your end result because you're clearly an edge case with thinning across the entire donor.

"Doesn't it make sense that some NW 7s were NW6 prior to being NW 7? Doesn't it make sense that NW 6 was previously a NW 5? Of course! This NW chart below is basically how my pattern progressed. From everything I've seen over the years I think the men who get crown loss early on are much more likely to go through the scale towards a NW 7 than those who only get frontal loss early on"

Literally all of this is either substantively untrue or broscience by the way. Zero evidence of the second point and on the first point if you are a NW7 pattern you will almost certainly thin in that area well before you hit NW5. 

ht-210-months-post-op - right

0_IMG_20200920_133023.jpg

 

 

10 years apart and at only early 30s, you can't use this as an example as to why not to get hair transplants in your 20s. You can't sensibly suggest this isn't due to broader medical factors or a very specific type of diffuse hairloss. I don't think I've ever seen this in the real world.

 

8 hours ago, Billy0716 said:

I had one at 25. 2000 grafts FUE to the hairline. I’d tell you not to do it, but if you’re anything like me then you’ll probably ignore the advice. I’ve now completely lost hair in the crown area and have to wear fibers behind my hairline (32 now) See photo below ghat illustrates Further hair loss behind the implanted hair line.
 

I’m currently in the process of Consulting with Dr Muresanu at Hattingen hair who has examined me in person and advised that my donor area has been over harvested during my first procedure. The plan now is to remove some of the grafts in the hairline to make it more natural and place these more centrally to blend back into the bald crown. I will then buzz my hair down in a final attempt to look natural (albeit bald but with some framing of the face). 
 

Failing this I’ve seen great results at Men’s ink SMP, which I had never really considered before but I believe this may be my only option and the results on their pages look great at least. I’d say try buzzing your hair first. If you don’t like it jump on minoxidil for a few years (I never did Until now it’s too late) and then consider your options in a few more years. I would definitely recommend Hattingen if you’re looking for naturalness. My experience with them has been completely honest so far and they will be honest with your expectations.

 

F33AEF1D-4B89-4546-BDFA-BB3DFB0B26D5.jpeg

 

In this case the mere fact that you've said after 2000 grafts your donor was overharvested tells me with almost certainty that the failure in result stems from the quality of the surgeon. If you went to Dr. Muresanu for your procedure to begin with either your donor would have been too poor to begin with and he likely would have turned you away, or you would probably have ended up with a good result. 

Your result is basically the Wayne Rooney result by the way, and he advertised it publicly and probably spent 20k pounds on it. Age really has nothing to do with it.

 

Edited by JayLDD
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JayLDD,

So you're saying these guys don't exist. I'm posting pics of two different men I just found by doing an internet search who had hair transplants years ago and which you can obviously see that the area expanded and they still have hair on the sides and back. There are plenty of men that this has happened to and a lot of them have gone back years later and gotten more grafts to fill in the expanded areas, but according to you it's not possible because they wouldn't have thick enough hair in the donor area to do it because they HAD to be thinning in the donor area if they end up with a larger pattern than they had at some point earlier.  Melvin posted a picture of an example of this just recently and I wish I could find it. Melvin! Help me out!

image.jpeg.fc7995a2bd933c65ece7f5eb82b24f03.jpeg

image.jpeg.6c141a9955d44a7026e1591e319190bd.jpeg

 

Edited by BeHappy

Al

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I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here.

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JayLDD,

Here is the one I was looking for. You can see from the hair that was transplanted years earlier that he wasn't a NW 7 at the time. It looks like he was maybe a NW 5, but his bald area greatly increased in size over time eventually making him a NW 7, but according to you it's not possible to be a NW 5 and then become a NW 7 later. Oh and look he still has hair on his sides and back. How can that be? It can't be true because you never saw this in real life. Maybe you just aren't looking. Here's a question for you. How many NW 7 men have you tracked their hair loss since when they were teenagers? Oh and look. This man was able to get more grafts even though it's not possible according you you because his hair would be too miniaturized.

 

 

image.jpeg

 

image.jpeg

 

image.jpeg

 

 

 

Edited by BeHappy
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Al

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(formerly BeHappy)

I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here.

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@JayLDDyou’re perhaps right that Dr Muresanu May have turned me away For not being a good candidate. I don’t think we are saying different things in this regard. The OP asked whether I would recommend getting a HT at a young age, and for me it probably wasn’t the best option, that’s not to say it isn’t right for everyone, but he asked personal opinion based on individual circumstance. 
 

The surgeon I went to originally is one that I did a lot of research on via this forum and who is well regarded in the industry, so I don’t expect that a result at that age to the hairline would have given me a future proof result, irrespective of the surgeon, as I only had a receding hairline without any thinning to the crown. Instead, they probably would have recommended that I waited until I was 30+ to better assess the situation and see how it develops without my willingness to take propecia. 
 

I’m not sure on whether your comment about wazza is a dig or a compliment, but given that he paid £20k for his procedure and I’m a united fan I’ll take it as a compliment! 

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8 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

JayLDD,

Here is the one I was looking for. You can see from the hair that was transplanted years earlier that he wasn't a NW 7 at the time. It looks like he was maybe a NW 5, but his bald area greatly increased in size over time eventually making him a NW 7, but according to you it's not possible to be a NW 5 and then become a NW 7 later. Oh and look he still has hair on his sides and back. How can that be? It can't be true because you never saw this in real life. Maybe you just aren't looking. Here's a question for you. How many NW 7 men have you tracked their hair loss since when they were teenagers? Oh and look. This man was able to get more grafts even though it's not possible according you you because his hair would be too miniaturized.

 

 

image.jpeg

 

image.jpeg

 

image.jpeg

 

 

 

I've clearly looked at signififcantly more cases than you have, the hair plug results you're posting don't prove your point. They give absolutely zero information about what I'm making very clear which is that these areas in the NW7 would have been thinning already at the point which he had lost hair in that smaller area on top.  Unless there are other underlying health conditions or a special kind of hairloss like DUPA.

If you have a NW6 pattern, you will have thinning in the NW6 area going deep back into the crown well before you hit NW6. Do you honestly think these cases prove that they went from a slick bald NW5 for to a NW7 magically? No, those areas would have thinned well in advance. Tests for miniaturisation and putting the hair under microscope are always possible.

Hairloss is progressive, but the final PATTERN stays the same. 

I'm sorry but your conclusions are totally off the mark. You may as well tell every patient on earth including those in their 30s don't get a hair transplant because you might hit NW7 and have no means of knowing even as a slick bald NW5 for example. Your conclusion has absolutely nothing to do with age either, if in your fantasy land NW5s all had a high or even likely chance of hitting NW6 in the future with no present signs of thinning no one could get a hair transplant. How would your conclusion make a difference even if someone was 45 and a slick bald NW5? They still might end up NW7 according to you.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

JayLDD,

So you're saying these guys don't exist. I'm posting pics of two different men I just found by doing an internet search who had hair transplants years ago and which you can obviously see that the area expanded and they still have hair on the sides and back. There are plenty of men that this has happened to and a lot of them have gone back years later and gotten more grafts to fill in the expanded areas, but according to you it's not possible because they wouldn't have thick enough hair in the donor area to do it because they HAD to be thinning in the donor area if they end up with a larger pattern than they had at some point earlier.  Melvin posted a picture of an example of this just recently and I wish I could find it. Melvin! Help me out!

image.jpeg.fc7995a2bd933c65ece7f5eb82b24f03.jpeg

image.jpeg.6c141a9955d44a7026e1591e319190bd.jpeg

 

I'm pretty sure Melvin also subscribes to the understanding that final patterns are pretty well determined based on the miniaturisation map of ones hair, which is why and how he justifies his procedures without using medication. 

I'm not sure if you are getting confused with the points you are trying to make - but the cases you are submitting aren't relating to the points in which you are trying to explain. 

When you walk down the street later, or jump on the underground etc. - have a look at how many men aged 40+ have thinning in their donor, regardless of their hair loss. It is extremely difficult to come across patients like the one in the aforementioned thread, and it is equally pretty difficult to come across NW7's - it is ultimately classified by many doctors in the industry as being an uncommon hair loss pattern.

As for these two pictures, particularly the second one - based on the photo alone, it doesn't look like too bad a position to be in, as his donor appears adequate to provide further coverage up top. 

With regards to guys such as yourself and @Gatsby giving your own personal experiences to younger patients on here being extremely noble, and valuable - I think it would also be important to mention that your generation unfortunately didn't have access to the doctors or technology that todays patients do. Like someone mentioned earlier, ethics and overall quality were pretty much non existent 25+ years ago - therefore I would confidently argue that any patient in their 20's who goes for consultations with world class surgeons and clinics recommended on here, won't end up in irreversible or helpless situations in their future life, assuming that the clinics agree to perform surgery. 

 

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1 hour ago, JayLDD said:

'm sorry but your conclusions are totally off the mark. You may as well tell every patient on earth including those in their 30s don't get a hair transplant because you might hit NW7 and have no means of knowing even as a slick bald NW5 for example. Your conclusion has absolutely nothing to do with age either, if in your fantasy land NW5s all had a high or even likely chance of hitting NW6 in the future with no present signs of thinning no one could get a hair transplant. How would your conclusion make a difference even if someone was 45 and a slick bald NW5? They still might end up NW7 according to you.

 

I never said everyone was going to be a NW 7. I'm not against hair transplants. I don't post on here telling everyone they shouldn't get one because it doesn't work. Sure I tell a few people my opinion that they should not get one for various reasons like maybe they still have too much hair, maybe they are already NW 6 and are happy shaving but want hair and think they can get all their hair back, etc. but that's pretty normal for anyone here who has been dealing with hair loss and hair transplants for a while and tries to give honest opinions. My only argument in this thread is about how hairloss occurs in NW 7s. You think it must be able to be known very early on if the Dr checked for miniaturization and I disagree and think you can't always tell early on because just because the pattern seems well defined it may not stay that way. That's basically it. I was not arguing at all about how many people will become a NW 7. In fact you were the one saying it's nearly impossible for anyone to get there which I also think is wrong.

What I was disagreeing with you on is you claiming that azza must have had underlying medical conditions to end up NW 7 with thinning sides in his early 30s. We are all dealing with hair loss. Just because someone is losing hair faster and more severe than you are does not mean he has some other medical conditions. It means he has more aggressive hair loss than you.

 

Al

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1 hour ago, Curious25 said:

therefore I would confidently argue that any patient in their 20's who goes for consultations with world class surgeons and clinics recommended on here, won't end up in irreversible or helpless situations in their future life, assuming that the clinics agree to perform surgery. 

 

Then go back to the top of this thread and look at the pasted thread of azza.

You guys are misunderstanding me. I'm not against hair transplants. Yes you are right if I was 22 today and having it done now it would be much better. I've stated that in other places on this board. All I'm saying is JayLDD is wrong when he says NW 7s can be knwon early on in the balding process by looking at their hair. That's all.

 

Let's do it this way. Would you agree that when I was 12 or 13 I had thick hair with no miniaturization? If so then what about when I started noticing a thin spot in my crown. Do you think I suddenly had miniaturized hair throughout the entire NW 7 zone at 15?

 

How about this. Let's take a guy who has a miniaturized frontal hairline of maybe 2 or 3 centimeters with thin wispy hair. Do you think all men who have that have miniaturization throughout their entire top and crown? If they don't then how do they lose more hair later if you can only lose hair where it's miniaturized from the very beginning of hairloss?

 

Here's another one. Almost everyone who is 80+ years old has miniaturiztion and thinning in the donor area. How can they have that if they didn't have it at 30 when they had a hair transplant for just a receding hair line and it's still holding up? This one should make it pretty obvious that JayLDD must be wrong and miniaturization can occur later.

 

 

Al

Forum Moderator

(formerly BeHappy)

I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here.

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Can't two things can be true at the same time?

1) Some patients final NW pattern is apparent in the early stages of the balding process.

2) Some patients experience miniaturization later in areas that wasn't obvious at the early stages of the balding process.

I'm pretty sure I've seen instance of both.

 

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Dr. Paul Shapiro: 2,348 grafts (FUT) 2009 ~ 1,999 grafts (FUT) 2011 ~ 300 grafts (Scar Reduction) 2013

Dr. Konior: 771 grafts (FUT) 2015 ~ 558 grafts (FUT) 2017 ~ 1,124 grafts (FUE) 2020

My Hair Transplant Journey with Shapiro Medical Group

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1 minute ago, aaron1234 said:

Can't two things can be true at the same time?

1) Some patients final NW pattern is apparent in the early stages of the balding process.

2) Some patients experience miniaturization later in areas that wasn't obvious at the early stages of the balding process.

I'm pretty sure I've seen instance of both.

 

Yes! Exactly what I'm saying. Thank you. However JayLDD insists that #2 can not be possible and I'm simply pointing out that he is wrong. And while he won't believe me unless I can somehow prove it while insisting any of my proof doesn't count, he hasn't even tried to prove his side at all.

 

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Al

Forum Moderator

(formerly BeHappy)

I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here.

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4 hours ago, BeHappy said:

 

Yes! Exactly what I'm saying. Thank you. However JayLDD insists that #2 can not be possible and I'm simply pointing out that he is wrong. And while he won't believe me unless I can somehow prove it while insisting any of my proof doesn't count, he hasn't even tried to prove his side at all.

 

#2 must be the case otherwise the whole 'over 25' rule of thumb would not exist. 

https://www.bernsteinmedical.com/hair-transplant/basics/candidacy/

4,312 FUT grafts (7,676 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2013

1,145 FUE grafts (3,152 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2018

763 FUE grafts (2,094 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - January 2020

Proscar 1.25mg every 3rd day

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Yes, at 23, but I had a conservative hairline / mid-scalp rebuild with a lot of grafts left in the bank for later. 

 2,000 grafts FUT Dr. Feller, July 27th 2012. 23 years old at the time. Excellent result. Need crown sorted eventually but concealer works well for now.

Propecia and minoxidil since 2010. Fine for 8 years - bad sides after switching to Aindeem in 2018.

Switched to topical fin/minox combo from Minoxidil Max in October 2020, along with dermarolling 1x a week.

Wrote a book for newbies called Beating Hair Loss, available on Amazon

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To add further to earlier discussions on here, please find attached thread from a recent 29 year old Hasson and Wong patient. 

As you can see his extractions have been harvested outside the NW6 Zone, in which the clinics response was that this was due to everybody's safe zones (hair loss patterns) being different.

If Dr Hasson is comfortable to assume this 29 y/o patient won't reach an advanced NW 6 stage, surely that would suggest patients eventual hair loss patterns are detectable from earlier years? 
 

 

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