Should I switch from Diep to Hasson?

[Melvin- Admin]

I will review the photo, I did not count anywhere near 1,400 holes. I will send it to Diep as well for his response. 

[HTP1]

No brainer for me. 

Why take the risk of some of things we've seen on here? 

If I look at a restaurant and out of 100 people 80 get amazing meals, and 20 get food poisoning. I am not looking at the 80, I am thinking about the risk of being one of the 20. 

Change the probabilities how you see fit.

Edited August 30, 2020 by HTP1

[NicoAustralia]

3 minutes ago, ShadowMoon said:

The fact is you have access to a picture that is irrefutable proof that there are 1400 holes on the back of his head and only 800 grafts were extracted. You're taking the word of the surgeon over the word of the patient and physical photographic evidence. 

He will dance around this comment with "guys this is getting out of hand" and then close the thread 

[asterix0]

How can the picture possibly lie with respect to the number of grafts, unless it was manipulated somehow?

I would think photographic evidence would hold more value than word of mouth. 

[ShadowMoon]

2 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I will review the photo, I did not count anywhere near 1,400 holes. I will send it to Diep as well for his response. 

Thank you, this is all I ask. It was too much of a confusing case to just be deleted with no resolution or response from the surgeon. 

[Melvin- Admin]

2 minutes ago, NicoAustralia said:

He will dance around this comment with "guys this is getting out of hand" and then close the thread 

How dare you accuse me of closing threads due to negative comments. I have already provided more than enough proof that the thread was not removed because I wanted to remove it. You have continuously accused me of censorship. Frankly, if you don’t like the forum, the door is open.

[ShadowMoon]

4 minutes ago, NicoAustralia said:

He will dance around this comment with "guys this is getting out of hand" and then close the thread 

I understand the frustration, but I don't feel this is warranted. Very rarely does Melvin close a thread. I can't think of any that didn't deserve closing. 

[jimcraig152]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I can’t wrap my head around this thinking 

The thinking is based on math:

(1500 extractions) - (800 grafts) = 700 extractions unaccounted for and lost for future follow-up procedures

Industry standard transection loss rate by an expert surgeon is what 5%, 10%, 15%? What is the rate of loss here: (700 unaccounted for extractions) / (1500 total extractions) = 47%. The count wasn't speculated upon or drawn up on thin air. Someone counted the extractions with a photo editor. I didn't reply to that thread but I did download those photos before the thread was deleted. I counted them myself and stopped at 1300. No doubt Specific-violinist60's new hairline will look good in 12 months. But his donor supply was salted for 700 units he won't have to treat progression in the future.

You still have access to that thread's content. I'll help you count them for yourself in GIMP.

47% loss via transection or mindlessness. Let's just call it for what it is.

20 minutes ago, HTP1 said:

No brainer for me. 

Why take the risk of some of things we've seen on here? 

Word. Take $1000 loss @Buffaloboy. I wish I could sell you my corn rows.

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by jimcraig152

[Buffaloboy]

1 hour ago, ShadowMoon said:

Your guess is as good as ours, the post was removed at the OP's request a week or two ago. Guy had a recent case and well over half of the back of his head was used to get 836 grafts. A couple people did a manual count based on post op pictures and it was between 1400-1600 holes. If you look at post op donors of Dr. Diep's patients you'll see that they are particularly... tenderized. So you can understand the patients concern for what should have been a tiny case. No answers were given to the patient despite reaching out to the clinic, and Dr. Diep didn't show up to give any sort of explanation. So here we are.

Oh THATS the post that was deleted. Darn.

I wish Dr Diep would come on this forum and answer questions.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Buffaloboy

[Buffaloboy]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

@Buffaloboy cancel the surgery. I’m not telling you otherwise, go with your gut, but know that there is absolutely NO way to call a surgery a failure until the results have manifested by 12 months. There have been COUNTLESS members who’ve posted on here and have talked about their surgeons non-stop, and by 12 months, they apologize.

I’m not saying that will be the case with jim or tent, but I’m saying it happens, so it’s best to look at matured results. Even @FUEblonde1985 mentioned unhappiness with his results at 12 months, in his most recent post, he said his hair has improved and it looks more natural, see how things change over time? At the end of the day, do what you feel is right.

I’m just so confused at this point.

[Buffaloboy]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I’m not gaslighting anyone, I’m repeating what Dr. Diep has said to me, and I believe him, you don’t have too, you can believe what you want, but to speak in facts, is wrong. It’s clear Diep doesn’t have a lot of fans here. That’s okay, we can agree to disagree.

To be clear, I was a big fan of him before all of these reviews. Now I’m confused. I thought I had booked one of the best surgeons in the country.

The holes aren’t my concern (I’m not doing FUE). My concern is the “grid” pattern.

[Buffaloboy]

34 minutes ago, jimcraig152 said:

The thinking is based on math:

(1500 extractions) - (800 grafts) = 700 extractions unaccounted for and lost for future follow-up procedures

Industry standard transection loss rate by an expert surgeon is what 5%, 10%, 15%? What is the rate of loss here: (700 unaccounted for extractions) / (1500 total extractions) = 47%. The count wasn't speculated upon or drawn up on thin air. Someone counted the extractions with a photo editor. I didn't reply to that thread but I did download those photos before the thread was deleted. I counted them myself and stopped at 1300. No doubt Specific-violinist60's new hairline will look good in 12 months. But his donor supply was salted for 700 units he won't have to treat progression in the future.

You still have access to that thread's content. I'll help you count them for yourself in GIMP.

47% loss via transection or mindlessness. Let's just call it for what it is.

Word. Take $1000 loss @Buffaloboy. I wish I could sell you my corn rows.

 

Jim, have you thought about asking Dr Diep why he placed your grafts in corn rows?

[HTP1]

10 minutes ago, Buffaloboy said:

To be clear, I was a big fan of him before all of these reviews. Now I’m confused. I thought I had booked one of the best surgeons in the country.

The holes aren’t my concern (I’m not doing FUE). My concern is the “grid” pattern.

You're spoilt for choice in the US. No need to take any unnecessary risks. 

[jimcraig152]

4 minutes ago, Buffaloboy said:

To be clear, I was a big fan of him before all of these reviews. Now I’m confused. I thought I had booked one of the best surgeons in the country.

Me too man. I had been following his work for years before I took the plunge with Dr. Diep. And while I know I need to wait longer for the final results, the techniques observed can clearly be seen.

4 minutes ago, Buffaloboy said:

The holes aren’t my concern (I’m not doing FUE). My concern is the “grid” pattern.

The corn rowing/grid placement alone should be enough for you to make the final decision. But make no mistake about it, FUT will be a concern for you too. There are examples of good FUT scars and bad ones from Dr. Diep. They are on this forum. But like any of his work, it is a bit of a dice roll, coin flip, or you are laying of odds beyond 50-50.

This isn't a witch hunt. Just a bunch of people suffering from hairloss who want to help other people make the best possible decision. Good luck with your decision man. Keep us posted!

[jimcraig152]

14 minutes ago, Buffaloboy said:

Jim, have you thought about asking Dr Diep why he placed your grafts in corn rows?

I am 6 weeks post op with Dr. Diep and I can tell you getting him or his staff to respond to me has been a chore. I am detailing that in my thread. But to answer your question, no. I haven't even been able to ask the question. But when I do, I will point my high powered intelligence into dissecting his answer :).

Good luck with your decision and journey brutha. Keep us posted.

[giegnosiganoe]

I feel terrible for all of the people who book him for surgery simply based on his social media (such as his YouTube videos), which I'm sure is how most people find him. What a surprise they're in for...

Consider yourself one of the lucky ones.

Also, I'll share that I've had a consultation with Diep in person. I'll be honest, I didn't have great expectations due to what I had read in patient review threads about him on this forum, but he's the only surgeon near me and I thought I would at least have something to gain by having him assess my situation in person. What a waste of time that was. When I asked if he could check my donor density with a microscope, etc, he found some excuse. I guess that's not something he does during consultations. He barely looked at my hair from far away, not even taking so much as a glance at my donor area. Then when I asked him how many lifetime grafts he thought I had available via FUE, he told me 10-12k. I know that is blatantly false (and how could he know? He didn't even look at or touch my donor area?) considering I have diffuse thinning all over my scalp, which I have since confirmed affects my donor as well, with weak density and a higher than average number of miniaturizing hairs (on my way to DUPA, lest DHT blockers can prevent future loss). I don't even want to think what my donor area would be looking like if I had blindly gone for surgery with him.

[hairlossPA]

I think it comes down to this... the fact that you’re this uneasy about the procedure with Dr. Diep says you should at least delay your procedure until you come to terms with what has you questioning it.

You have 3 main things to decide about Diep.

1) extraction pattern and size

2) implantation technique

3) possibly ethics

if you can come to terms with these 3 things, then go for it. He is a popular surgeon for a reason. he does put out many homeruns.

H&W on the other hand.. you will not need to worry about extraction pattern and sizes. H&W always put out the most pristine donors post-op. I think this would be well agreed upon on the forum. They have a great tech from what I’ve researched doing the extractions. I’ve never seen a “cornrow” type implantation with H&W.

Like others have said.. 1k in the grand scheme of things shouldn’t be the main factor here. I would suggest you think long and hard, but in either situation you go with, good luck 

 

edit: for what it’s worth, I too had a consultation with Diep 2 years ago and was not very impressed with how it went. Albeit it was an online consultation

Edited August 31, 2020 by hairlossPA

[Buffaloboy]

1 hour ago, jimcraig152 said:

I am 6 weeks post op with Dr. Diep and I can tell you getting him or his staff to respond to me has been a chore. I am detailing that in my thread. But to answer your question, no. I haven't even been able to ask the question. But when I do, I will point my high powered intelligence into dissecting his answer :).

Good luck with your decision and journey brutha. Keep us posted.

THAT I can vouch for as well. It took 3 calls just to get them to take my deposit. Then two different receptionists gave me two different surgery dates. They couldn’t find my consults with the doc (there were two to choose from!). They couldn’t find me at all in the system. Etc etc.

If Melvin talks to Dr Diep again, I would love him to ask Dr Diep what’s going on with his front end staff.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Buffaloboy

[Buffaloboy]

19 minutes ago, hairlossPA said:

I think it comes down to this... the fact that you’re this uneasy about the procedure with Dr. Diep says you should at least delay your procedure until you come to terms with what has you questioning it.

You have 3 main things to decide about Diep.

1) extraction pattern and size

2) implantation technique

3) possibly ethics

if you can come to terms with these 3 things, then go for it. He is a popular surgeon for a reason. he does put out many homeruns.

H&W on the other hand.. you will not need to worry about extraction pattern and sizes. H&W always put out the most pristine donors post-op. I think this would be well agreed upon on the forum. They have a great tech from what I’ve researched doing the extractions. I’ve never seen a “cornrow” type implantation with H&W.

Like others have said.. 1k in the grand scheme of things shouldn’t be the main factor here. I would suggest you think long and hard, but in either situation you go with, good luck 

 

edit: for what it’s worth, I too had a consultation with Diep 2 years ago and was not very impressed with how it went. Albeit it was an online consultation

Thank you for this post. It was helpful.

[LonelyGraft]

9 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I will review the photo, I did not count anywhere near 1,400 holes. I will send it to Diep as well for his response. 

Melvin, there was already a response. The op of that thread said diep punched hairs but didn’t extract them, which makes absolutely no sense. Why would he punch out ah extra 600-700 grafts and just leave them there?

[Buffaloboy]

I emailed Dr Diep’s office and told them my concerns and requested to talk to the doctor prior to making my final payment.

They responded and said I can talk to the doctor in 2 months ... 1 day before my surgery. Payment is due 10 days before surgery. 

🤦🏻‍♂️

[Tentpole91]

32 minutes ago, Buffaloboy said:

I emailed Dr Diep’s office and told them my concerns and requested to talk to the doctor prior to making my final payment.

They responded and said I can talk to the doctor in 2 months ... 1 day before my surgery. Payment is due 10 days before surgery. 

🤦🏻‍♂️

That is absurd. Cancel the surgery ASAP. Wait a bit longer, go with a more reputable surgeon, and thanks us all later for the rest of your life. 

Like, I’m not sure if you need a kick in the balls or something but just cancel it. 

[Buffaloboy]

26 minutes ago, Tentpole91 said:

That is absurd. Cancel the surgery ASAP. Wait a bit longer, go with a more reputable surgeon, and thanks us all later for the rest of your life. 

Like, I’m not sure if you need a kick in the balls or something but just cancel it. 

I just really liked Diep before this whole debacle.

So I was holding out... but I think I’m done now.

[Tentpole91]

Buffalo it sounds like you’ve made your decision, so I’m going to bring the thread back to the earlier topic. 
 

I really appreciate the folks in this thread who are pushing hard for the truth here. The story can’t end with just what the surgeon tells Melvin in a phone call. 

The photographic evidence needs to be addressed. This has nothing to do with the quality of Violinist’s end result, and everything to do with the way the donor was harvested + Dr. Diep’s response to the patient (as documented by @LonelyGraft)

I’m glad that Melvin has reached out about that specific issue. 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Tentpole91

[Tentpole91]

I feel like we keep getting side tracked from this central issue into debates about overall quality — which are valuable, but not as important as figuring out what the hell happened to Violinist.