HT without Finasteride

[LonelyGraft]

On 8/29/2020 at 12:08 PM, elduterino said:

@hybonix

why .25mg ? start with 1mg right away, time is the essence you want to protect as much as possible what you have now, not what you will have left in one year.

When I started the pill in 1998, there was't all this talk about side effects, just the famous "only 2% get it" and the assumption was that it will halt MPB for as long as you use it..which both turned out wrong..but..nevertheless I am now so thankful for the drug back then, and the fact that I did not wait.

And make sure to add Minox and a few proven supplements such as

MSM

Biotin 

Chondroitin Sulfate

 

 

Proven supplements? Care to share the studies where these are “proven?” There are anecdotes of msm and biotin growing hair faster but what does chondroitin do for hair?

[elduterino]

8 hours ago, LonelyGraft said:

Proven supplements? Care to share the studies where these are “proven?” There are anecdotes of msm and biotin growing hair faster but what does chondroitin do for hair?

Firstly, these are readily available cheap supplements, not patented, so of course no firm is going to invest time and money into a serious human study. However, besides user feedback we have some research hints. 

These results provide further evidence that hair growth is associated with the presence of chondroitin proteoglycans in the follicle environment and that the cessation of growth is associated with their removal. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1704038/

Also we have more data on Versican, 

 

These are Anagen inducing supplements. The other anagen inducing and hair cycle slowing drug is Stemoxydine, aka Neogenic, very effective and side effects free . Works well in combination with Minox

Edited August 31, 2020 by elduterino

[Melvin- Admin]

12 hours ago, hybonix said:

Already experiencing headaches/cloudiness from first two doses. No, it’s not placebo, but I hear this typically subsides after one week of usage as my body is not used to fin yet.

That’s fast, I’ve heard that taking it at night reduces these effects, I don’t know though. 

[hybonix]

3 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

That’s fast, I’ve heard that taking it at night reduces these effects, I don’t know though. 

My body is super sensitive to any medication and that is why I am low dosing it for now. I took it in the morning for the first doses, and just did one last night to help. I am still a little fuzzy, but it's manageable. I could try topical fin, but I heard this is systemic anyways and it's much easier to do it orally. I will update us in one week to let you know if this subsides.

[elduterino]

11 hours ago, LonelyGraft said:

Wtf you’re brushing off hpta suppression Bc it’s not a “sexual side effect?” Is this real life?

sexual side effect have a very strong fear effect for guys, imagine spending all this money and effort on looks and hair, finally getting the girl of your dreams in bed and struggling to getting it up..a nightmare for most guys. Some even killed themselves over this.

HPA suppression, most older guys have no idea how this translates to practice.. and this is a lot more prevalent in children than older adults. Again, this was not reported in the hair loss age studies, 95 to 99% of guys will be just fine and EVERYONE will have rock hard erections

[Cristero]

15 minutes ago, elduterino said:

sexual side effect have a very strong fear effect for guys, imagine spending all this money and effort on looks and hair, finally getting the girl of your dreams in bed and struggling to getting it up..a nightmare for most guys. Some even killed themselves over this.

HPA suppression, most older guys have no idea how this translates to practice.. and this is a lot more prevalent in children than older adults. Again, this was not reported in the hair loss age studies, 95 to 99% of guys will be just fine and EVERYONE will have rock hard erections

HPTA suppression is way worse than any sexual side effects. It seems you don't know much about it and I'm glad for you that you didn't experienced it, but that basically means you don't have any considerable amount of sexual hormones running in your body anymore, both androgens and estrogens.

Not only you will be unable to perform sexually, but you will experience a terrible depression and sometimes even suicidal thoughts. Try to ask any bodybuilder who failed to do a proper PCT protocol after a steroid cycle.

In any case, we will discuss again when we will have the data from the completed phase 3 of the hairloss topical.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Cristero

[Melvin- Admin]

43 minutes ago, hybonix said:

My body is super sensitive to any medication and that is why I am low dosing it for now. I took it in the morning for the first doses, and just did one last night to help. I am still a little fuzzy, but it's manageable. I could try topical fin, but I heard this is systemic anyways and it's much easier to do it orally. I will update us in one week to let you know if this subsides.

Honestly, here’s my thinking, either topical fin works, and yes you’ll get systemic effects, or it doesn’t and you won’t get systemic effects.

[elduterino]

8 minutes ago, Cristero said:

HPTA suppression is way worse than any sexual side effects. It seems you don't know much about it and I'm glad for you that you didn't experienced it, but that basically means you don't have any considerable amount of sexual hormones running in your body anymore, both androgens and estrogens.

Not only you will be unable to perform sexually, but you will experience a terrible depression and sometimes even suicidal thoughts. Try to ask any bodybuilder who failed to do a proper PCT protocol after a steroid cycle.

In any case, we will discuss again when we will have the data from the completed phase 3 of the hairloss topical.

Suppression of the stress or HPA axis results in inadequate cortisol production. Cortisol is the natural stress hormone found in humans. When this hormone is produced insufficiently, response to stressors (e.g. trauma, surgery, inflammation) may be impaired and defence against infections may be inadequate. 

>Does not mention sexual hormones. This affects cortisol not male hormones

According to research, chronically elevated cortisol levels can produce impotence and loss of libido by inhibiting testosterone production in men. 

>so how having low cortisol does seem to lead to impotence 

 

[Cristero]

5 minutes ago, elduterino said:

Suppression of the stress or HPA axis results in inadequate cortisol production. Cortisol is the natural stress hormone found in humans. When this hormone is produced insufficiently, response to stressors (e.g. trauma, surgery, inflammation) may be impaired and defence against infections may be inadequate. 

>Does not mention sexual hormones. This affects cortisol not male hormones

According to research, chronically elevated cortisol levels can produce impotence and loss of libido by inhibiting testosterone production in men. 

>so how having low cortisol does seem to lead to impotence 

 

Dude you are confused to say the least. I'm not gonna get into a discussion on this topic, because this is seriously endocrinology 101. Cortisol doesn't suppress the HPTA and doesn't require any induced restart of the axis.

If you want to know how the HPTA works and what happens when it gets suppressed, google "secondary hypogonadism in men".

As I said before, I'm done with this conversation until we will get the Breezula phase 3 data from Cassiopea. What came out from the Winlevi trials on young adults is alarming to say the least for now.

[LonelyGraft]

4 hours ago, Cristero said:

HPTA suppression is way worse than any sexual side effects. It seems you don't know much about it and I'm glad for you that you didn't experienced it, but that basically means you don't have any considerable amount of sexual hormones running in your body anymore, both androgens and estrogens.

Not only you will be unable to perform sexually, but you will experience a terrible depression and sometimes even suicidal thoughts. Try to ask any bodybuilder who failed to do a proper PCT protocol after a steroid cycle.

In any case, we will discuss again when we will have the data from the completed phase 3 of the hairloss topical.

Finally someone with some sense! I like how @elduterino throws 95 and 99% statistics like he’s some expert on side effects on a drug that’s only sold on the black market. @elduterino, how many patients were in both of these studies you have so much confidence in?

 

not surprised all of this is coming from someone that used to openly recommend topical flutamide gel to many people (even after the company MAKING IT decided to discontinue it after fear of side effects in users)