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2 hours ago, hybonix said:

Thank you for your input. Once I get final pricing from Hasson, I may cancel my surgery with Diep. It seems like Dieps quality of work has gotten worse and that scares me. Only problem is Hasson is in Canada and we have to wait until COVID is over until I can get the surgery.

Note: I have emailed Dr Diep with my concerns on his pattern placement and submitted pictures of other patients. I am asking for his thoughts and opinion. If he is able to assuage our/my concerns and promise more natural looking results, I’m game and will stay with him.

If you sent over my photo, I can tell you what he will likely say: it’s too early to tell, and I need to wait another six months before making a final judgment. And he’s right; There is still a chance the singles at the front could grow in. I tried to make that clear in my post above,  but could probably have done a better job. 

As context, I have an ongoing dialogue with Dr. Diep about my current results, and it’s probably frustrating for him to see my photos popping up in his emails from prospective clients. So it goes. 

I totally understand the urge to do surgery now rather than waiting another 6-12 months. Keep in mind, though, that the results are for life! 

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8 hours ago, hybonix said:

@Tentpole91If you knew the pattern would occur with Dr. Diep, would you have chosen Hasson instead?

I didn’t look at Hasson when I was making my decision, because I felt that his clinic was a bit too conservative in the hairlines that they design. Probably not a smart call in hindsight  

I chose Dr. Diep because I thought he would be a safe bet given the sheer number of people who have had transplants from him on the forums stretching back to 2015. I thought that if he was good enough for all of them, he’s probably good enough for me. I also was a fan of the density he is able to achieve, which I didn’t really see in other doctors  

Today, the pattern is pretty frustrating. It looks unnatural and I’m not comfortable exposing that side of my hairline. But then again, plenty of people are unhappy with their transplants at six months. I’ll have a better answer for you towards the end of the year once the hair has had a chance to soften, mature, and grow in any straggling singles. Otherwise it’s not super fair to Dr. Diep to call the results a success/failure before the hair has fully grown in. 

Now if the pattern remains prominent 6 months from now, then I would definitely cash in the hypothetical card to swap surgeons. Who wouldn’t? lol 

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Hasson quoted me roughly the same price as Diep and wants to do 3 - 4K grafts. They have been more informative on the process than Diep’s assistant, but I gotta admit, I like Diep’s patient’s hairlines better than Hasson. Hasson’s hairlines seems more conservative, while they don’t look bad, they are not as prominent as Diep’s. This may be the deciding factor for me...

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On 8/13/2020 at 2:25 AM, Tentpole91 said:

I didn’t look at Hasson when I was making my decision, because I felt that his clinic was a bit too conservative in the hairlines that they design. Probably not a smart call in hindsight  

I chose Dr. Diep because I thought he would be a safe bet given the sheer number of people who have had transplants from him on the forums stretching back to 2015. I thought that if he was good enough for all of them, he’s probably good enough for me. I also was a fan of the density he is able to achieve, which I didn’t really see in other doctors  

Today, the pattern is pretty frustrating. It looks unnatural and I’m not comfortable exposing that side of my hairline. But then again, plenty of people are unhappy with their transplants at six months. I’ll have a better answer for you towards the end of the year once the hair has had a chance to soften, mature, and grow in any straggling singles. Otherwise it’s not super fair to Dr. Diep to call the results a success/failure before the hair has fully grown in. 

Now if the pattern remains prominent 6 months from now, then I would definitely cash in the hypothetical card to swap surgeons. Who wouldn’t? lol 

I not trying to be negative but at 6 months it’s almost impossible to assume hair will fill in front of that spot other than a few stragglers. Don’t get me wrong 6 month mark is not the final result but I believe I am correct in saying the skin in thinner on the scalp from front to back. That is one reason the further back you go like crown area it takes a little longer for the hair to grow. I could be wrong on the skin but my front was always the first part to grow and thicken , my crown always took longer. Hairlines are important, too jagged doesn’t look good and too straight looks just as bad. 

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On 8/13/2020 at 9:48 PM, hybonix said:

Hasson quoted me roughly the same price as Diep and wants to do 3 - 4K grafts. They have been more informative on the process than Diep’s assistant, but I gotta admit, I like Diep’s patient’s hairlines better than Hasson. Hasson’s hairlines seems more conservative, while they don’t look bad, they are not as prominent as Diep’s. This may be the deciding factor for me...

Keep in mind on hairlines, most people distance from bottom on nose to bottom of chin is equivalent in distance to the brow line and forehead. That is most likely the frame you were born with. Hence people like me with a long face have a bigger forehead. Trying to go beyond this ratio can look unnatural. Now that being said some people on this site think my hairline is conservative but my ratio is perfect for my face. Also you never want to implant in your frown lines for the most part. So once you have your starting point going back into your recession points can be made appropriately. These are things I learned in my process. 

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1 hour ago, Guy73 said:

Keep in mind on hairlines, most people distance from bottom on nose to bottom of chin is equivalent in distance to the brow line and forehead. That is most likely the frame you were born with. Hence people like me with a long face have a bigger forehead. Trying to go beyond this ratio can look unnatural. Now that being said some people on this site think my hairline is conservative but my ratio is perfect for my face. Also you never want to implant in your frown lines for the most part. So once you have your starting point going back into your recession points can be made appropriately. These are things I learned in my process. 

I appreciate the insight. So here are the forum’s consensus on Diep:

- His donor management for FUE sucks and his punch size is too big at .9mm. I’m doing FUT, but his scars can also not be the greatest there either

- In the past year or two, he’s been implanting hairs in more straight lines than what is normal/natural

- He achieves great volume and his hairlines can look great depending on the recipient hair filling out

- He does direct consultations and establishes a good rapport with patients before surgery

My conclusion:

- I am most likely sticking with Diep based on the fact that he still has way more documented evidence and great results on volume. His evidence can be misleading and he may only post the best, but he still has the most videos/photos on a consistent basis. He is also local to me and I have family I can stay with for the procedure/recovery.

- I talked to some past patients and everyone was happy with the result. However, all of them did bring up the above issues and it’s a known problem.

I appreciate everyone’s help on the forums and will start a new thread with Diep’s surgery.

Wish me luck!!

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Dr. Diep does two things exceedingly well:

  1. Places and designs the hairline perfectly. He has an accute understanding of facial symmetry and proportions. He probably took art classes in college. I mentioned in another thread that if Peyton Manning walked into Dr. Diep's office, he wouldn't walk out with Usher's hairline. If he did, Peyton Manning would look worse and should have stuck with the fivehead.
  2. His yield is excellent. Seems to understand perfectly the depth at which grafts must be placed into the scalp for best yield.

No need for me to further beat what everyone else has already told you about his graft placement (though you should consider thoroughly the shortcomings). But I think you should account for the following:

  • If you check 'NO' to allowing MHTA to shave your head, that does not mean they will work around whatever your existing hair is now in the reciepient area. Your hairline will be shaved back and what is left of whatever hair you have now might just compell you to have checked 'YES'. In other words, you might have one of these haircuts at the extreme. And while you will be able to cover the FUT incision in the immediate aftermath with such a haircut, really you aren't done any favors. But then again, I have no idea what your hair looks like now.
  • You will be given some last minute terms in the minutes just before the procedure and after you've paid for the procedure. Check my thread for some further details on that. Also, if you can, take a snap of those terms with your phone that would help everyone else that is going to go after you.
  • Ask for extra head coverings (7 in total work), Extra barrier sheets (7-10 works), and extra ointment packets (I am thinking 10-14). You won't be given this stuff till the end so be sure to write it down so you remember as you come out from the anesthesia.
  • You're actually better off being as isolated as possible in at least 4 days after the procedure until you can wash the receipent area. Trust me on this one. I am a native of the area where MHTA is located and that is one of the reasons I decided to go with them as well; for the convenience. If I had to recover in the immediate days following the procedure in a active household, I'd probably cut the survival rate of my transplants in half. If you do go with Dr. Diep, or another surgeon, don't let convenience be a factor at all. Pay for that extra lodging and go with the best possible choice.
  • Take the week off following the surgery, even if you can work remotely at your family's house near MHTA. Your mind and soul needs to be completely free of anything that will cause you stress.

Good luck. Look forward to seeing your journey.

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4 minutes ago, jimcraig152 said:

Dr. Diep does two things exceedingly well:

  1. Places and designs the hairline perfectly. He has an accute understanding of facial symmetry and proportions. He probably took art classes in college. I mentioned in another thread that if Peyton Manning walked into Dr. Diep's office, he wouldn't walk out with Usher's hairline. If he did, Peyton Manning would look worse and should have stuck with the fivehead.

Strongly disagree.

He actually seems to do the exact same hairline for everyone, which only really demonstrates his clientele are drawn to it as it probably suits them. The temple point work ive seen of his, as @LonelyGraft pointed out, isnt good either. 

IMO a true artist of the industry understands there are different types of hairlines depending on one's facial proportions with different types of hairs located throughout the donor, and then takes this all into account along with the finite amount of donor supply to achieve this - with the end result being that the hairlines are always NATURAL.

Diep's artificial cornrow placement lacks any micro-irregularities (i.e. are not natural), fails to give the most coverage possible, and does not reveal any effort given hair selection (like separating 1s from fine 1s). All he seems to get right is the general macro design and offers a decent yield. When you combine this Diep's general poor donor management his whole approach is questionable. 

 

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34 minutes ago, jimcraig152 said:

But I think you should account for the following:

  • If you check 'NO' to allowing MHTA to shave your head, that does not mean they will work around whatever your existing hair is now in the reciepient area. Your hairline will be shaved back and what is left of whatever hair you have now might just compell you to have checked 'YES'. In other words, you might have one of these haircuts at the extreme. And while you will be able to cover the FUT incision in the immediate aftermath with such a haircut, really you aren't done any favors. But then again, I have no idea what your hair looks like now.
  • You will be given some last minute terms in the minutes just before the procedure and after you've paid for the procedure. Check my thread for some further details on that. Also, if you can, take a snap of those terms with your phone that would help everyone else that is going to go after you.
  • Ask for extra head coverings (7 in total work), Extra barrier sheets (7-10 works), and extra ointment packets (I am thinking 10-14). You won't be given this stuff till the end so be sure to write it down so you remember as you come out from the anesthesia.
  • You're actually better off being as isolated as possible in at least 4 days after the procedure until you can wash the receipent area. Trust me on this one. I am a native of the area where MHTA is located and that is one of the reasons I decided to go with them as well; for the convenience. If I had to recover in the immediate days following the procedure in a active household, I'd probably cut the survival rate of my transplants in half. If you do go with Dr. Diep, or another surgeon, don't let convenience be a factor at all. Pay for that extra lodging and go with the best possible choice.
  • Take the week off following the surgery, even if you can work remotely at your family's house near MHTA. Your mind and soul needs to be completely free of anything that will cause you stress.

Good luck. Look forward to seeing your journey.

WOW this is amazing advice!!! Thank you so much for your help and this is incredibly insightful. I will write down everything and make sure I get the material you recommend.

Regarding isolation, I will be holed up in the guest room from date of procedure (Thursday) and fly out on Monday around 1PM. It’s a very quiet place and my in laws are retired, so they don’t do much. Do you think I should reschedule and fly out on Tuesday instead? Also, should I not be hanging out with family and just lay in bed for 4 days? Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much for your support and help here.

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44 minutes ago, jimcraig152 said:

Dr. Diep does two things exceedingly well:

  1. Places and designs the hairline perfectly. He has an accute understanding of facial symmetry and proportions. He probably took art classes in college. I mentioned in another thread that if Peyton Manning walked into Dr. Diep's office, he wouldn't walk out with Usher's hairline. If he did, Peyton Manning would look worse and should have stuck with the fivehead.
  2. His yield is excellent. Seems to understand perfectly the depth at which grafts must be placed into the scalp for best yield.

No need for me to further beat what everyone else has already told you about his graft placement (though you should consider thoroughly the shortcomings). But I think you should account for the following:

  • If you check 'NO' to allowing MHTA to shave your head, that does not mean they will work around whatever your existing hair is now in the reciepient area. Your hairline will be shaved back and what is left of whatever hair you have now might just compell you to have checked 'YES'. In other words, you might have one of these haircuts at the extreme. And while you will be able to cover the FUT incision in the immediate aftermath with such a haircut, really you aren't done any favors. But then again, I have no idea what your hair looks like now.
  • You will be given some last minute terms in the minutes just before the procedure and after you've paid for the procedure. Check my thread for some further details on that. Also, if you can, take a snap of those terms with your phone that would help everyone else that is going to go after you.
  • Ask for extra head coverings (7 in total work), Extra barrier sheets (7-10 works), and extra ointment packets (I am thinking 10-14). You won't be given this stuff till the end so be sure to write it down so you remember as you come out from the anesthesia.
  • You're actually better off being as isolated as possible in at least 4 days after the procedure until you can wash the receipent area. Trust me on this one. I am a native of the area where MHTA is located and that is one of the reasons I decided to go with them as well; for the convenience. If I had to recover in the immediate days following the procedure in a active household, I'd probably cut the survival rate of my transplants in half. If you do go with Dr. Diep, or another surgeon, don't let convenience be a factor at all. Pay for that extra lodging and go with the best possible choice.
  • Take the week off following the surgery, even if you can work remotely at your family's house near MHTA. Your mind and soul needs to be completely free of anything that will cause you stress.

Good luck. Look forward to seeing your journey.

Art classes in college? Um...he went to medical school in the Caribbean (fact).

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29 minutes ago, transplantedphil said:

Strongly disagree.

He actually seems to do the exact same hairline for everyone, which only really demonstrates his clientele are drawn to it as it probably suits them. The temple point work ive seen of his, as @LonelyGraft pointed out, isnt good either. 

IMO a true artist of the industry understands there are different types of hairlines depending on one's facial proportions with different types of hairs located throughout the donor, and then takes this all into account along with the finite amount of donor supply to achieve this - with the end result being that the hairlines are always NATURAL.

Diep's artificial cornrow placement lacks any micro-irregularities (i.e. are not natural), fails to give the most coverage possible, and does not reveal any effort given hair selection (like separating 1s from fine 1s). All he seems to get right is the general macro design and offers a decent yield. When you combine this Diep's general poor donor management his whole approach is questionable. 

 

Let me qualify that a bit more. The hairline placement and design does have factors beyond just placement. Donor supply is also a big part of this. Given where the patient is in the NW scale and donor supply, he does an excellent job with placement and design. But yeah, it is subjective.

Also, I am an very recent Dr. Diep patient (dare I even say at this point, survivor?). I am well aware of the shortcomings of his techniques. First hand no less. I am sure you've read what I've written on the subject in my thread.

24 minutes ago, hybonix said:

WOW this is amazing advice!!! Thank you so much for your help and this is incredibly insightful. I will write down everything and make sure I get the material you recommend.

Regarding isolation, I will be holed up in the guest room from date of procedure (Thursday) and fly out on Monday around 1PM. It’s a very quiet place and my in laws are retired, so they don’t do much. Do you think I should reschedule and fly out on Tuesday instead? Also, should I not be hanging out with family and just lay in bed for 4 days? Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much for your support and help here.

Stay the extra day if you can. You'll feel really good after you are able to wash the receipient area on the 4th day. Probably would save you some stress on the flight back too.

The first few days, you will naturally be a hermit crab. You might have a huge welt under your eye by the end of the 2nd day and will look awful. And by being so reclusive those first 4 days, you may feel you are imposing on your relatives, stay till the 7th day when you can finally shower. Use day 5, 6, & 7 to hang with your relatives. Shower, then fly back. But definitely take the week off after the procedure.

18 minutes ago, LonelyGraft said:

Art classes in college? Um...he went to medical school in the Caribbean (fact).

LoLoLoL! Ok, I have no idea what he took in college. Definitely will accept that you've identified he was schooled in the Caribbean as fact.

Everyone's situation is different. I don't feel my hairline is perfect. But given the estimate of extractions and the final extraction amount (2250 vs 2337), it turned out really well. His incision and extraction pattern are a different story.

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Also, @LonelyGraft & @transplantedphil , if I were to answer the question posed in the topic directly, my direct answer is no. I know I am very early in the recovery process. But the technical flaws are readily apparently even to my inexperienced eye at this juncture. I only stated what I feel MHTA does well which as you can see is a short 2-bulletted item list. One of which is being met with strong disagreement already.

OP seems to have made up his mind at this point though. So I'm only offering support at this point.

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On 8/16/2020 at 6:24 AM, jimcraig152 said:

Let me qualify that a bit more. The hairline placement and design does have factors beyond just placement. Donor supply is also a big part of this. Given where the patient is in the NW scale and donor supply, he does an excellent job with placement and design. But yeah, it is subjective.

I dont believe it is subjective, and even Diep's own website lays out an argument against his cornrow approach;

https://www.mhtaclinic.com/seven-rules-to-dense-hair/

7: Random hair placement: In nature, hair grows randomly, no specific rows or groups of hair. The more random the hair placement, the more natural it will appear.

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UPDATE (8/17/20):

  • I just booked an appointment with Dr. Hasson for January. I could have done November, but we do not know if the Canadian border will be open at that point in time. I have decided to listen to everyone's cautionary tales on these forums and go with a more ethical and meticulous doctor
  • I will be fighting for my deposit as I booked on the precedent that Diep's work is of industry standard, but they are definitely not when looking at new patients
  • I also talked to Dr. Konior but he was just a bit too pricey for me. He wanted 25k for roughly 3500 grafts FUT, ouch. Great doctor but too expensive.
  • Will post a full journey in January
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On 8/16/2020 at 2:53 PM, transplantedphil said:

I dont believe it is subjective, and even Diep's own website lays out an argument against his cornrow approach;

I am referring to his hairline placement with respect to face, forehead, head with the factor of donor supply. He does well in this area.

We all know his graft incision and placement pattern looks like lines on college rule paper.

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@hybonix good luck, for what its worth I think you probably made a good call. Dr. Diep may well have given you an excellent result, but it's important to keep in mind that you don't get do-overs when it comes to transplants, and you really need to be managing your downside rather than maximizing the best possible result (especially with 3500 grafts). 

One thing that I've heard H&W do well is place the hair at more natural angles. This tends to be more difficult to do, but it has a pretty big pay-off in that it creates more of a visual appearance of density. People tend to talk more about hairline design and density, but I think it's important to also consider graft placement (not too uniform) and graft angle. 

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6 hours ago, hybonix said:

UPDATE (8/17/20):

  • I just booked an appointment with Dr. Hasson for January. I could have done November, but we do not know if the Canadian border will be open at that point in time. I have decided to listen to everyone's cautionary tales on these forums and go with a more ethical and meticulous doctor
  • I will be fighting for my deposit as I booked on the precedent that Diep's work is of industry standard, but they are definitely not when looking at new patients
  • I also talked to Dr. Konior but he was just a bit too pricey for me. He wanted 25k for roughly 3500 grafts FUT, ouch. Great doctor but too expensive.
  • Will post a full journey in January

Excellent choice.  Pretty sure hw and Dr diep charge the same too, and the results aren't really comparable imo.

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I especially like that you took to heart my comment on convenience. You said that you have family near MHTA, that would save you what, $700 in lodging?

Peace of mind > Convenice/$700

Keep us posted!

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One last question, but I am curious what the forums think of Dr. Ron Shapiro of Shapiro Medical Group? He has availability sooner than H&W and was curious if Dr. Ron Shapiro is a good alternative or better than H&W. I am not seeing any recent results on these forums and I curious about his work in general. Can anyone recommend Shapiro? Does he do good work? Thoughts/comments/concerns?

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@hybonix I think you have made a well informed decision. This is a change that will alter your appearance for the rest of your life. If you can get it right the first time, that is an exceptional feat in this industry. You've come to the right place and are doing your research. That is commendable in my opinion. Dr. Diep is a lightening rod on this forum and for good reason. His older results dating back 3 or more years seem to be more desirable. He wasn't implanting in such defined rows back then. There was still a pattern but his density could usually disguise it well enough. I would definitely disagree with the comment about his artistic approach to hairline design in this thread. He does almost the exact same hairline on every non-african patient. Pointed in the center with receding arches towards the temples with a weak temple closure. There's not much artistry in that but that doesn't mean it isn't appealing. It does suite many patients and is generally viewed as a solid design. With that being said he generally gets adequate density and the overall appearance of the recipient area is acceptable. However, anyone who has had a transplant with him knows that his angles are slightly too perpendicular to the scalp and when short the hair sticks up unnaturally making difficult to style in some instances. I also think that his temple closure /points are misdirected and generally weak areas for him. However, it is his donor management that makes me confident you made the right decision in staying away. Yes, patient physiology plays a factor in FUT scarring but there's some horrendous ones out there in this forum. There is a common theme with recent Diep patients and it's that he tries to be as efficient as possible because he's managing two cases at once on most days. This efficiency unfortunately has shown some significant shortcomings lately. The one sided confined extraction pattern and recipient rows are just two of the more prominent ones. 

I haven't seen much work from Shapiro but I can definitely recommend H&W. I know initially you were worried about their clinic being too conservative. Keep searching and you'll find some aggressive restorations from them. It all comes down to patient expectations, donor availability, and planning for future loss. They are experts in graft angling and can achieve dense restorations if that's what you're  after. 

Edited by ruca2
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Bosley Dr. Krenitsky 11-2016 FUE 1407 grafts

Dr. Diep 09-2017 FUE 2024 grafts

Dr. Konior 03-2020 FUE 2076 grafts

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Sky here checking late into the party. I 100% would recommend DR Diep. Just like as Melvin has stated his work changed my life. I did a mega session (fut) and honestly I can barely notice the scar. I even wear my hair pretty short (3guard). I would never want to push anyone into surgery just starting my experience. I have a second procedure booked in January and I will be getting fut again. I’m becoming obsessed with having the perfect hair so I will keep you guys posted and good luck my friend if you move forward with your procedure 

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1 minute ago, Skyb said:

Sky here checking late into the party. I 100% would recommend DR Diep. Just like as Melvin has stated his work changed my life. I did a mega session (fut) and honestly I can barely notice the scar. I even wear my hair pretty short (3guard). I would never want to push anyone into surgery just starting my experience. I have a second procedure booked in January and I will be getting fut again. I’m becoming obsessed with having the perfect hair so I will keep you guys posted and good luck my friend if you move forward with your procedure 

Did you get your second procedure scheduled? 

I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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Just now, Skyb said:

Melvin yes bro! I’m booked for Jan 19. I can wait. I’m totally pleased with my 1st procedure just want more density in the crown.

Please create a thread here bro, it would  be great to follow your progress. 

I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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Unfortunately, Dr Diep’s assistant said the max they could harvest is 3500 and that is their limit. They told me that they don’t have time to do more, but if I wanted to harvest more, I could ask Dr. Diep on the day of surgery. That is poor business practice and 4 other surgeons said it was completely possible to get 4K or more with the strip method. I want a minimum of 4K for my surgery or I’m not doing it. It’s a shame because I asked why they did it for others and they said they no longer do it... So, I cannot go with them even if they had better transplant patterns and good donor management. That whole clinic gives me a bad taste in the mouth and have been super unprofessional with me throughout the whole process. I won’t go into it, but it was a nightmare to work with their assistants who could barely setup a consult and left me hanging for over an hour after the slotted time. Unforgivable.

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