When Did Price Become The Most Important?

[AB2000]

On 7/19/2020 at 1:32 PM, fabofly said:

Melvin, I am a big fan but you are being hard headed and arrogant if you think paying 2k USD for 3,000 grafts vs 20k USD for 3,000 graft is not extremely attractive to many and justifiably so.

I read into this that you think both options will yield 3k graft results.  If that were true, then obviously paying less if the better option for you.

What if the cheaper place only resulted in you obtaining 1,500 grafts that survive the transplantation process?  You still paid less, but you've now wasted 1,500 other grafts from your donor area that are never coming back.  And if you are balding and want credible coverage in the long term there is nothing more valuable, even money, than donor grafts.

Hope you don't wind up going to a hair mill that wastes your resource.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, AB2000 said:

I read into this that you think both options will yield 3k graft results.  If that were true, then obviously paying less if the better option for you.

What if the cheaper place only resulted in you obtaining 1,500 grafts that survive the transplantation process?  You still paid less, but you've now wasted 1,500 other grafts from your donor area that are never coming back.  And if you are balding and want credible coverage in the long term there is nothing more valuable, even money, than donor grafts.

Hope you don't wind up going to a hair mill that wastes your resource.

Wise words 🙏🏼

[AB2000]

On 7/21/2020 at 12:51 PM, fabofly said:

Hi Melvin that is a shockingly dismissive opinion. These are regularly black dudes from the states/UK you have gone to turkey, they dont even have referral codes or discounts. They have documented their journey from Day 0 to 18 months in some cases. The amount of black men sharing their journey exploded early 2019 prior to that you could find maybe two videos on youtube of black men who got transplants. Some of these guys I remain in contact with and chat here and there on best practices pre and post surgery. 

I am not going to talk about transplants for non black hair as I didnt research that but I have a strong feeling you are very ignorant when it comes to black hair.

Making sure that you are looking at current results is the right thing to do.  Things at a given clinic might have changed from 5-10 years ago and you can't necessarily trust what happened earlier because of the increase of patient count and more reliance on techs than the doctor.  At least that's what I've read happening out of some places in Turkey.  If you are in contact with people with hair like yourself who got their good results in the past year or two you've done what you can to mitigate the risk.

The only thing I'll add is to ask the surgeon on the type of tool he uses.  As someone suggested to you in your thread, find out if they use the "trumpet" style extractor that is more effective on extracting curly/AA style hair.  Though I'm not of the same background as you my hair grows out the same way, and that's why I'm glad the clinic I went to has this tool.  It saved grafts from being transected.  And BTW the surgeon I saw was African and cost more then what you are planning.  I have no regrets about the extra cost because of the results.

[Doron Harati]

2 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

True, there are quality places that are affordable, but of course affordable is different for everyone. I recently saw someone mention that a surgeon who charges $2.5 per graft is not low-cost. Unfortunately, for that person, they probably can’t afford a decent surgeon, 

At some point, you have to understand that you will not be getting a good hair transplant for pennies, it’s not logical. Sure, you may see some guys on YouTube who paid 1,500 for 5,000 grafts. They got lucky, they are the exception, not the norm. 

They won the Russian Roulette at the Turkish Casino, bad cheap clinic 1 out of 20-30 win a good HT but still scarifice donor with scars, awful cheap clinic 100% failures with hardcore scars.

 

[Foobar]

I don't look at the price, I look at the results first, and price second.

Many western European clinics that charge double of what Turkey charges do not do a better job. They also use technicians and don't have any more great results than the Turkish clinics.

Criticizing an entire country based on some bad clinics is wrong.

You have to look at each individual clinic, not by individual countries.

In fact you are looking at the price. Your logic is higher price is better quality. But that is not true. Cost of living is lower in Turkey vs other countries. Same goes for every other industry. Why can China produce so cheap products? Because of labor costs. A lot of trash comes from china, but so does your expensive iPhone and other well known electronics. Not all products from China are garbage. It depends on the factory.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Foobar

[Runandy]

Dude thank you! Anyone who writes off a clinic just based on the country it’s in, to me is a biased source. 

[Al - Moderator]

Some of you are not understanding what Melvin is trying to say. He isn't saying price is not a factor at all. He is saying price should not be the most important factor. You want a hair transplant because you want to improve your hair situation and look better. That is the goal. That is the main priority. Improving your hair and looking better. You cannot disregard that and make the lowest price be the main goal. There has never been anyone with a bad hair transplant who feels great about it because he got the transplant at a lower price than anyone else. However there are plenty of men who had a great transplant and maybe paid more than they could have or should have, but they feel great about it because they accomplished the main goal which is to improve their hair situation and look better. If you can accomplish the main goal at a low cost, then that's fine, do it. But make sure you are getting the best chance of accomplishing the goal of looking better and not going for the goal of the lowest price.

Ask any repair patient if they think they ended up paying less than if they went somewhere else to begin with.

EDIT: I thought I'd add a final thought. If a low price is more important than the outcome then don't go and pay 0. That is the lowest cost without caring what you look like. You will never beat that price. Why pay even 1 cent per graft if you don't care what you will look like. You can do that for free.

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by BeHappy

[Runandy]

Melvin has repeatedly said that he would not advise anyone to go to Turkey for a hair transplant. He has written off the whole country. I have said there are reputable clinics there that get great results at a much lower cost. Cost should not be the only factor, of course I agree. 

[Melvin- Admin]

7 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

Some of you are not understanding what Melvin is trying to say. He isn't saying price is not a factor at all. He is saying price should not be the most important factor. You want a hair transplant because you want to improve your hair situation and look better. That is the goal. That is the main priority. Improving your hair and looking better. You cannot disregard that and make the lowest price be the main goal. There has never been anyone with a bad hair transplant who feels great about it because he got the transplant at a lower price than anyone else. However there are plenty of men who had a great transplant and maybe paid more than they could have or should have, but they feel great about it because they accomplished the main goal which is to improve their hair situation and look better. If you can accomplish the main goal at a low cost, then that's fine, do it. But make sure you are getting the best chance of accomplishing the goal of looking better and not going for the goal of the lowest price.

Ask any repair patient if they think they ended up paying less than if they went somewhere else to begin with.

EDIT: I thought I'd add a final thought. If a low price is more important than the outcome then don't go and pay 0. That is the lowest cost without caring what you look like. You will never beat that price. Why pay even 1 cent per graft if you don't care what you will look like. You can do that for free.

 

Well said, can’t really say much else 👏🏼

[Melvin- Admin]

3 minutes ago, Runandy said:

Melvin has repeatedly said that he would not advise anyone to go to Turkey for a hair transplant. He has written off the whole country. I have said there are reputable clinics there that get great results at a much lower cost. Cost should not be the only factor, of course I agree. 

That’s because we’ve removed two surgeons from that country, and it really is the wild wild west, its a gamble with yours scalp. Of course I wouldn’t recommend anyone go there. There are clinics outside of Turkey, like HDC in Cyprus, or Eugenix in India that I have 100x more confidence in and are also low price. 

[Rolandas]

42 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

Some of you are not understanding what Melvin is trying to say. He isn't saying price is not a factor at all. He is saying price should not be the most important factor. You want a hair transplant because you want to improve your hair situation and look better. That is the goal. That is the main priority. Improving your hair and looking better. You cannot disregard that and make the lowest price be the main goal. There has never been anyone with a bad hair transplant who feels great about it because he got the transplant at a lower price than anyone else. However there are plenty of men who had a great transplant and maybe paid more than they could have or should have, but they feel great about it because they accomplished the main goal which is to improve their hair situation and look better. If you can accomplish the main goal at a low cost, then that's fine, do it. But make sure you are getting the best chance of accomplishing the goal of looking better and not going for the goal of the lowest price.

Ask any repair patient if they think they ended up paying less than if they went somewhere else to begin with.

EDIT: I thought I'd add a final thought. If a low price is more important than the outcome then don't go and pay 0. That is the lowest cost without caring what you look like. You will never beat that price. Why pay even 1 cent per graft if you don't care what you will look like. You can do that for free.

 

Wow, that's the best formulation of this idea I've ever heard. I hope you don't mind me stealing it! :D

 

[Portugal25]

1 hour ago, Runandy said:

Melvin has repeatedly said that he would not advise anyone to go to Turkey for a hair transplant. He has written off the whole country. I have said there are reputable clinics there that get great results at a much lower cost. Cost should not be the only factor, of course I agree. 

In the whole of Turkey I found that there`s just 3 doctors achieving truly natural results and out of the 3 only HLC is a safe bet.

Keser doesn`t use a microscope during surgery and Pekiner aborts surgeries if he finds miniaturized hairs.

Sure there are others doctors geeting decent results like Demirsoy but for truly natural results using highly skilled techniques I found those 3 Doctors to be the best and only options.

However, HLC at 2.5€/graft makes zero sense to me because for that exact same price we can get Dr. Ximena Villa or Dr. Bruno Ferreira in Europe.

I have to agree with @Melvin-Moderator that Turkey should be the last place to consider because it`s truly the wild west out there but it`s also a fact that the 3 doctors I stated above are getting truly natural results and should be a option if a patient is made aware of their limitations beforehand and the price makes sense.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Portugal25

[Runandy]

We can agree to disagree and that’s totally fine! Turkey probably has the most botched hair transplants out of any location, but it’s my opinion that there are a few great clinics that consistently do a great job. I also think that Turkey can provide an avenue for those who are not wealthy to get a great transplant at a lower cost provided they do their research. There’s many guys out there that would much rather put a down payment on a house or car or emergency fund then to spend all that cash on a hair transplant. I was able to afford a down payment on a house due to going to Turkey and I’m so glad I did. It would be a great for this forum to consider the great clinics that are there rather then to cast them all aside but that’s just my opinion

[Pauls]

2 hours ago, Runandy said:

We can agree to disagree and that’s totally fine! Turkey probably has the most botched hair transplants out of any location, but it’s my opinion that there are a few great clinics that consistently do a great job. I also think that Turkey can provide an avenue for those who are not wealthy to get a great transplant at a lower cost provided they do their research. There’s many guys out there that would much rather put a down payment on a house or car or emergency fund then to spend all that cash on a hair transplant. I was able to afford a down payment on a house due to going to Turkey and I’m so glad I did. It would be a great for this forum to consider the great clinics that are there rather then to cast them all aside but that’s just my opinion

Completely agree. We all want the best things in life but you can only afford what you can afford. If it wasn’t for Turkey working class guys with a young family would never get the chance to get a HT. 

[RonBurgundy]

3 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

In the whole of Turkey I found that there`s just 3 doctors achieving truly natural results and out of the 3 only HLC is a safe bet.

Keser doesn`t use a microscope during surgery and Pekiner aborts surgeries if he finds miniaturized hairs.

Sure there are others doctors geeting decent results like Demirsoy but for truly natural results using highly skilled techniques I found those 3 Doctors to be the best and only options.

However, HLC at 2.5€/graft makes zero sense to me because for that exact same price we can get Dr. Ximena Villa or Dr. Bruno Ferreira in Europe.

I have to agree with @Melvin-Moderator that Turkey should be the last place to consider because it`s truly the wild west out there but it`s also a fact that the 3 doctors I stated above are getting truly natural results and should be a option if a patient is made aware of their limitations beforehand and the price makes sense.

hey, you always recommend Dr. Bruno Ferreira as one of the best surgeon, but why there is almost no his real cases here on this forum? Meanwhile HLC, Keser or Pekiner had a lot of them. Also I never saw a bad result from Keser, so why he is not a safe choice? 

[Portugal25]

@RonBurgundy I can’t recommend a surgeon that doesn’t use a microscope during surgery. He does get amazing results but there’s was this patient with multis on the hairline which is more likely to happen when a Doctor is not using a microscope.

[paddyirishman]

You will always remember the price of a poor HT.   You won't care or remember the price of a great HT.

[Gasthoerer]

39 minutes ago, RonBurgundy said:

... I never saw a bad result from Keser, so why he is not a safe choice? 

Out of topic but: Keser is a specialist for small cases and therefore can only be recommended for a small amount of patients. He has great results (one hairline case here is amazing), but I also have seen below par ones on other sites. Despite not using microscopes there is a discussion that he is a little outdated (especially his punch technique). 

[Runandy]

2 hours ago, paddyirishman said:

You will always remember the price of a poor HT.   You won't care or remember the price of a great HT.

I remember the price of my low cost HT, because I was able to put a down payment on a house as well 😉

[Melvin- Admin]

10 minutes ago, Runandy said:

I remember the price of my low cost HT, because I was able to put a down payment on a house as well 😉

You wouldn't be saying that if you came out botched with a depleted donor. It worked out for you, which is great, but that's sort of like a rapper saying "hey I didn't graduate high school, and now look at me i'm a millionaire." 
 

[Runandy]

Another reply completely not true. My results are the norm from the research I completed of the clinic I went to in Turkey. I did not get lucky. Your characterization of all clinics in Turkey is not accurate. Please stop spreading misinformation. Thanks! 

[gillenator]

There is a clinic here in the greater Wash DC area (Northern Virginia) with a doctor who has been doing horrible FUHT work for nearly 4 decades now.

You would think that after all this time he would be out of business...what is the sole factor that keeps him open?

It's greed!...he runs a full display add quarterly in the Wash Post advertising a big sale on HT procedures from as low as $2 per graft.

Herds of people come running to him for a free consultation and he just drops his line in the water and pulls them out one by one!

He plays on the fact that a cheap price is hard to resist and he's been doing it for a long long time.

He takes advantage of human nature...enough people will bite the bait of a cheap price!

[paddyirishman]

Your decision on choosing a particular doctor for your HT should be based upon the skill of that doctor to give you the best possible result over any other doctor around the globe.

Price and distance to travel to that particular doctor should be the last 2 things to consider  on your checklist. 

Paddy

[Runandy]

No one here is arguing that the skill of the clinic shouldn’t be the first consideration..

[RonBurgundy]

8 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

@RonBurgundy I can’t recommend a surgeon that doesn’t use a microscope during surgery. He does get amazing results but there’s was this patient with multis on the hairline which is more likely to happen when a Doctor is not using a microscope.

but why you always recommend Ferreira? without real cases on forum?