Is consultation required?

[karatekid]

Hey again guys.

after few posts here and long research, I ended up with 3 final options to my coming procedure - Feriduni, De Freitas and Pekiner. I was ready to have frontal consultation with 3 of them, but then corona came and shit on all my plans, so I only had consultation with Feriduni.

I really need to get the procedure done soon, so I wonder, how bad is it to set a procedure without having frontal consultation first? of course I do the online estimation but still it doesnt feel right to go for such a big, life changing procedure without meeting the doctor and stuff first, especially when there is a language barrier ( with Dr Freitas) which I wanted to know how the communication works. Is a frontal consultation something you would pass on? Im having hard time to decide since Im torn between the need to have a good procedure to having it done soon as possible.

 

 

[Taken4Granted]

I haven’t had my HT yet, but I’ve known which doctor I want for 10 years. I’m going for a consultation soon myself, but it’s less about the doctor and more about the prospect of surgery. I don’t think a consultation can replace or overrule good research, so it’s a challenging question.

[LaserCap]

It is imperative to have an in-person consultation with a hair restoration expert for a number of reasons.  The first being for your protection and that of the doctor.  Imagine, a patient arrives with a self immune system, moves forward with a procedure and eventually nothing grows.  Who is at fault? 

During the first meeting a lot happens.  First you get to meet and measure the MD. Do you like him? Does he seem to know what he's talking about? Does he seem concerned about you and asks you what your goals are?  Can he meet those goals? Are your goals reasonable? What about your scalp?

Does the doctor get in there and really look at the donor? Do you have a rash of some kind? Does he determine the caliber of your hair? Does he draw in a hairline and discuss final placement with you? How about the staff?

Even the place is important.  Is it clean and plush? Do you have a private room? Will they provide lunch?

Research is important.  Doing a few consultations is part of that research.  And you might learn a thing or two no one else touched on.

 

 

[1978matt]

On 6/15/2020 at 10:15 AM, karatekid said:

Hey again guys.

after few posts here and long research, I ended up with 3 final options to my coming procedure - Feriduni, De Freitas and Pekiner. I was ready to have frontal consultation with 3 of them, but then corona came and shit on all my plans, so I only had consultation with Feriduni.

I really need to get the procedure done soon, so I wonder, how bad is it to set a procedure without having frontal consultation first? of course I do the online estimation but still it doesnt feel right to go for such a big, life changing procedure without meeting the doctor and stuff first, especially when there is a language barrier ( with Dr Freitas) which I wanted to know how the communication works. Is a frontal consultation something you would pass on? Im having hard time to decide since Im torn between the need to have a good procedure to having it done soon as possible.

 

 

I like the idea of a consultation before booking, especially if there is any doubts about donor quality etc.  Not many are prepared to ship out $1000+ on a flight/hotel just for a visit but I think it's worth it.

[Melvin- Admin]

One of the surgeons on your list is known for aborting procedures, despite getting a flight and accommodations. An in person consultation in my opinion is a HUGE plus. Dr. Feriduni is an excellent choice, and some members can give you a little more detail about him like @Gasthoerer

[karatekid]

On 6/15/2020 at 7:18 PM, LaserCap said:

It is imperative to have an in-person consultation with a hair restoration expert for a number of reasons.  The first being for your protection and that of the doctor.  Imagine, a patient arrives with a self immune system, moves forward with a procedure and eventually nothing grows.  Who is at fault? 

During the first meeting a lot happens.  First you get to meet and measure the MD. Do you like him? Does he seem to know what he's talking about? Does he seem concerned about you and asks you what your goals are?  Can he meet those goals? Are your goals reasonable? What about your scalp?

Does the doctor get in there and really look at the donor? Do you have a rash of some kind? Does he determine the caliber of your hair? Does he draw in a hairline and discuss final placement with you? How about the staff?

Even the place is important.  Is it clean and plush? Do you have a private room? Will they provide lunch?

Research is important.  Doing a few consultations is part of that research.  And you might learn a thing or two no one else touched on.

 

 

Well as I said I did have one consultation (with Feriduni) so I do have an idea what to expect and according to him I am great candidate, just wanted to know if I should have one with the other doctors before I choose one. But I guess you are right. I just had hard time to decide since this is really spending money just on a visit, plus the delay of the procedure, but I think in bottom line, it will be not smart move just to show up first time at a clinic for a big procedure.

 

3 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

One of the surgeons on your list is known for aborting procedures, despite getting a flight and accommodations. An in person consultation in my opinion is a HUGE plus. Dr. Feriduni is an excellent choice, and some members can give you a little more detail about him like @Gasthoerer

Well, you cant just say this and not telling me who is he . maybe in PM if not here. Im interested to know.

Yes I know Feriduni is great choice, and I actually did have a long discussion with Gasthoerer and we talked about him. But as you know every doctor has his pros and cons, so I have to take everything into consideration in order to make the best decision possible.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, karatekid said:

Well as I said I did have one consultation (with Feriduni) so I do have an idea what to expect and according to him I am great candidate, just wanted to know if I should have one with the other doctors before I choose one. But I guess you are right. I just had hard time to decide since this is really spending money just on a visit, plus the delay of the procedure, but I think in bottom line, it will be not smart move just to show up first time at a clinic for a big procedure.

 

Well, you cant just say this and not telling me who is he . maybe in PM if not here. Im interested to know.

Yes I know Feriduni is great choice, and I actually did have a long discussion with Gasthoerer and we talked about him. But as you know every doctor has his pros and cons, so I have to take everything into consideration in order to make the best decision possible.

Just look up @duchaine thread about that surgeon, also @Portugal25 had his friend go through a similar situation. He’s the only one in Turkey from your list.

[Portugal25]

@karatekid you should know that Pekiner aborts surgeries if he finds miniaturized hairs. He did that to Duchaine and one of my best friends. He does achieve great results though.

My friend after being rejected by Dr. Pekiner went to @Dr. Bruno Ferreira because he works with Dr. Lorenzo that is the foremost authority in DUPA (worst than miniaturized hair) and one of the best FUE Docs in the world. My friend had 3210 to the front last month and has one of the cleanest and most optimized donor area I have ever seen (much like @Rolandas that also went to Dr. BF).
Dr. BF has his own clinic in Porto where he charges 2.5€/graft and uses the same technique as Dr. De Freitas and Dr. Couto.

I advise you to request a diagnosis to Dr. BF. 

Your other two options are very very good so no way to go wrong.

[Gasthoerer]

On 6/16/2020 at 8:57 PM, karatekid said:

 But as you know every doctor has his pros and cons, so I have to take everything into consideration in order to make the best decision possible.

+1 for that! There is no perfect clinic. And the clinic has to be matched to your personal situation. I always recommend to get 2-3 opinions (at least one clinic on this list should offer FUE and FUT) and then make an educated decision. Balding takes years, no reason to rush into surgery. 

Anyway, you already narrowed it down to great clinics. Now, it is also a personal/subjective decision. Good luck. 

[karatekid]

11 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

@karatekid you should know that Pekiner aborts surgeries if he finds miniaturized hairs. He did that to Duchaine and one of my best friends. He does achieve great results though.

My friend after being rejected by Dr. Pekiner went to @Dr. Bruno Ferreira because he works with Dr. Lorenzo that is the foremost authority in DUPA (worst than miniaturized hair) and one of the best FUE Docs in the world. My friend had 3210 to the front last month and has one of the cleanest and most optimized donor area I have ever seen (much like @Rolandas that also went to Dr. BF).
Dr. BF has his own clinic in Porto where he charges 2.5€/graft and uses the same technique as Dr. De Freitas and Dr. Couto.

I advise you to request a diagnosis to Dr. BF. 

Your other two options are very very good so no way to go wrong.

Ok, so if I plan to go with Pekiner I must have frontal consultation first, good point.   And thanks for the advices!

[Portugal25]

35 minutes ago, karatekid said:

Ok, so if I plan to go with Pekiner I must have frontal consultation first, good point.   And thanks for the advices!

Yes if you want Pekiner I highly advise in-person consultation and assurance from him that he won’t abort your surgery after extracting a few grafts.

With the other 2 options you have and Dr.BF I wouldn’t spend money on traveling arrangements for a in-person consultation and would just ask for a diagnosis and have a talk with them on the day of the surgery (I did it this way with Rahal and Pekiner). 

Edited June 18, 2020 by Portugal25

[karatekid]

@Portugal25 Thanks for the advice, and I know you usually suggest Dr.Freirra, but according to my long, extensive research, I found that those 3 are the best, at least for my case. BF is good but still not as good as De Freitas in my opinion. I understand he is cheaper but as I said my main consideration is quality.

Anyway I wanted to ask you, since you usually recommend the spanish doctors (I actually start researching them thanks to you), what do you think about the saying that the spanish doctors show great result because of the type of hair of spaniard people? I can say I looked at a lot of results, but Im not an expert and cant really tell which of them are spanish clients and which are not, and cant even always see some common hair characteristics of all those cases. I have consultation soon with de freitas and just wondering if I can expect the same (or close) to the superb results I see in the various forums (not only the spanish forum).  Or should I just go with my 'safe choice' which is Dr.Feriduni for me.

A second thing, about Pekiner. Im not sure I understood correctly. When you say he aborts surgeries, do you mean he might abort MID-PROCEDURE? like in the middle of the grafting??  which means that even examination of the hair before procedure doesnt even guarantee he will do the surgery? if this is the case it is horrible, and that means that even frontal consultation wont help.  I think we need to be sure of that, can someone tag Pekiner's advisor here to confirm? It's important to understand if the doctor only require frontal consultation, which is completely ok I think, or he can abort mid surgery, which is a total different thing.

 

[Portugal25]

@karatekid I manage the international sales department and travel worldwide but the first time I read the term spaniard was here at HRN.
I never saw any difference in the appearance or the hair of the average Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian or North American.
Maybe Germans and Scandinavians will have more population with blonde hair.

In terms of ethnicity in hair I really think you can only break everyone up into 4 categories caucasian (wider range from thin blonde to dark thick hair), african, indian and asians. 

I have to disagree with you in Dr. De Freitas because I believe Dr. BF to be much better but the problem is that Dr. BF has fewer results posted online (due to the fact he works with Lorenzo in Madrid and not 100% devoted to his own clinic).

Dr. De Freitas started his FUE experience working in Portugal and in the same Portuguese clinic as Dr. BF - C2MC - and then he went to work in Spanish hospitals and clinics before opening his own clinic.

Dr. BF was considered highly skilled at Conventions and was invited to work in Madrid with one of the best Doctors in the world (Lorenzo). He has his own clinic but is still developing his craft everyday with Lorezon in Madrid tackling difficult repair cases and DUPA patients.

Sorry but there’s really no comparison between De Freitas and Dr. BF in terms of skills.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Portugal25

[Doron Harati]

On 6/15/2020 at 12:15 PM, karatekid said:

Hey again guys.

after few posts here and long research, I ended up with 3 final options to my coming procedure - Feriduni, De Freitas and Pekiner. I was ready to have frontal consultation with 3 of them, but then corona came and shit on all my plans, so I only had consultation with Feriduni.

I really need to get the procedure done soon, so I wonder, how bad is it to set a procedure without having frontal consultation first? of course I do the online estimation but still it doesnt feel right to go for such a big, life changing procedure without meeting the doctor and stuff first, especially when there is a language barrier ( with Dr Freitas) which I wanted to know how the communication works. Is a frontal consultation something you would pass on? Im having hard time to decide since Im torn between the need to have a good procedure to having it done soon as possible.

 

 

As a representative of HDC clinic in Cyprus, I give consult, explain on our assurance, make appointment video calls with our MD Dr. Maras and Dr. Christina (they do the surgery, punch and opening channels, we divide hair graft groups with microscopes), also I escort paitents online\phone before and after procedure, feel free to contact me

[Gasthoerer]

8 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

I never saw any difference in the appearance or the hair of the average Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian or North American.
...

I have to disagree with you in Dr. De Freitas because I believe Dr. BF to be much better but the problem is that Dr. BF has fewer results posted online (due to the fact he works with Lorenzo in Madrid and not 100% devoted to his own clinic).

...

Sorry but there’s really no comparison between De Freitas and Dr. BF in terms of skills.

This data was discussed here before and it says that people with Spanish heritage have above average hair diameter, density (hair/cm2) and growth rate. The comparison maybe should also not be Italian but mid, north and east Europeans (a lot of results posted here are from people from this heritage independent where they are living now).  

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1684/ejd.2015.2726.pdf

I am not an expert on Freitas (even though I have seen great results and a few poor ones) or Ferreira (Like what I see, but have not seen much), but between "I believe Ferreira to be much better" and "there is no comparison" is a big difference. Everyone can have an opinion, but you state it as a fact with the second phrase. I have not seen any evidence which makes Ferreira that clearly superior to Freitas.  

[Portugal25]

@Gasthoerer your are quite right in saying there is not enough evidence to place Dr. BF above De Freitas.

It’s my opinion based on information I’m getting on a regular basis from one my closest friend that had a HT with Dr. BF last month.

Pretty sure you will come to the same conclusion once there’s more patients posting results.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Portugal25

[Melvin- Admin]

Have you consulted with other doctors? Let’s say Konior, Hasson and Wong, Bisanga, to name a few. There’s definitely other surgeons worth consulting with, whom have a longer track record than some of the names on your list. 

[karatekid]

On 6/23/2020 at 7:42 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Have you consulted with other doctors? Let’s say Konior, Hasson and Wong, Bisanga, to name a few. There’s definitely other surgeons worth consulting with, whom have a longer track record than some of the names on your list. 

Yes, believe me, I did a long research and definitely didnt rush into it.

I had frontal consultation with Bisanga, Lupanzula, and now Feriduni. I also actually had frontal consultation with  Dr.Maras (and he rejected me,  but it was 2 years ago, my hairloss progressed since)

I had online assessment with lots of clinics -  with Hasson and Wong, which suggested me only FUE. I know them especially for their FUT work, but if I they offer me me only FUE (for some reasons didnt quite understand) than I have better choices which are closer to me (I live in middle east so US and canada is big disadvantage for me), cheaper and even better.

Also got online assessments from  Keser, Lorenzo,  Rahal, Pekiner and maybe 1 or 2 more.

About konior,  as I said, US is a bit too far for me, and although I would go if I though it is worth the long travel,  but from my reviews, those doctors seem like better choice.

[Doron Harati]

@karatekid you were rejected? hmm...

Are you Norwood 6-7 with baldness in the donor area?

[Taken4Granted]

@karatekid

“About konior,  as I said, US is a bit too far for me, and although I would go if I though it is worth the long travel,  but from my reviews, those doctors seem like better choice.”

I don’t know the European surgeons very well, and I’m sure there are really good ones out there, but it’s hard to see how you could do better than Konior. Trust me, that quality has to be rare in any part of the world. If you have a wish list of 5+ in Europe, he’s easily as good as if not better than most of them. He’s known for being on the expensive side, but it’s really a bargain when you look at his methods and his results. Whatever you pay, you’ll probably walk away feeling indebted.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Taken4Granted

[karatekid]

2 minutes ago, Doron Harati said:

@karatekid you were rejected? hmm...

Are you Norwood 6-7 with baldness in the donor area?

Thank god no, lol. It was actually the opposite, I wasnt balding enough. Basically He said that my frontal hairline was too low to have a transplant. It was 2 years ago, my hairloss progressed since, I think now Im about nw2.5 or 3. my front did recede a bit but I guess not alot, the problem is more the temples recession. But I do want to lower the hairline a bit.

[Doron Harati]

1 minute ago, karatekid said:

Thank god no, lol. It was actually the opposite, I wasnt balding enough. Basically He said that my frontal hairline was too low to have a transplant. It was 2 years ago, my hairloss progressed since, I think now Im about nw2.5 or 3. my front did recede a bit but I guess not alot, the problem is more the temples recession. But I do want to lower the hairline a bit.

Pheeewwww I am glad it's not your case 😅

Although as a rep I have HT for some of those candidates.

Can you show in a good light your baldness pattern? If you prefer you can send me in private, because usually I tell ppl not to go for HT on NW2 before age 40.

[karatekid]

28 minutes ago, Taken4Granted said:

@karatekid

I don’t know the European surgeons very well, and I’m sure there are really good ones out there, but it’s hard to see how you could do better than Konior. Trust me, that quality has to be rare in any part of the world. If you have a wish list of 5+ in Europe, he’s easily as good as if not better than most of them.

Sorry but I really dont see it. I know people here praise him, but simply by looking at his patient posted cases I dont see anything spectacular.

I wanted to say that I appraciate any advice and take it into consideration. I learn alot due to the people here in the forum. but if I see stuff that contradict it I cant go against my basic judgement and intuition. Bottom line I look at a picture and see if it is better than others or not.

Edited June 24, 2020 by karatekid

[Melvin- Admin]

26 minutes ago, karatekid said:

Yes, believe me, I did a long research and definitely didnt rush into it.

I had frontal consultation with Bisanga, Lupanzula, and now Feriduni. I also actually had frontal consultation with  Dr.Maras (and he rejected me,  but it was 2 years ago, my hairloss progressed since)

I had online assessment with lots of clinics -  with Hasson and Wong, which suggested me only FUE. I know them especially for their FUT work, but if I they offer me me only FUE (for some reasons didnt quite understand) than I have better choices which are closer to me (I live in middle east so US and canada is big disadvantage for me), cheaper and even better.

Also got online assessments from  Keser, Lorenzo,  Rahal, Pekiner and maybe 1 or 2 more.

About konior,  as I said, US is a bit too far for me, and although I would go if I though it is worth the long travel,  but from my reviews, those doctors seem like better choice.

Out of all those names you think De Freitas and Pekiner are better? I strongly disagree with your assessment. Without pictures I can’t say if FUE or FUT would be better, but I trust Hasson and Wongs judgement, as they have been proven to be proficient in both methods, so there suggestion would be unbiased. 

[Taken4Granted]

@karatekid

Fair enough. I would say the same in your shoes. I disagree, but I do so with all respect and civility. As someone who’s been watching the industry for about a decade, I would urge you to consider a few things.

I’ve learned that’s it important to consider where you’re getting your data, how much a surgeon promotes him/herself, the ethics of the surgeon with respect to long-term outcomes, the demographics of the surgeon’s clientele and the details behind each restoration you see. 

It looks like Konior has an older, more affluent clientele, which means more space to cover with the same donor, less aggressive hair lines, and most importantly clients who typically don’t engage much online posting pictures and such. Moreover, Konior does virtually zero self-promotion (clearly flipped the middle finger to Yelp, for example). There’s a reason he always has a line out the door despite putting minimal effort into his website and spending nothing on marketing. 

Finally, the most telling datum IMO is the surgeon’s track record with patients who have multiple HTs. You’ll notice a lot of bouncing around between different surgeons. The ones who are more likely to appear later in the history after patients do better research, and the ones patients keep going back to over many years are the best surgeons.

To illustrate with an example, Rahal has tons more amazing patient results on the Internet, but Konior is objectively the better surgeon when you consider the above factors. In fact, I think Rahal even sued HSN to get bad results taken down. Konior doesn’t go around cleaning the Internet of bad photos and puking his best work everywhere. The problem of bad reviews does not even arise for Konior. If you don’t see how good he is, I strongly believe you’re  missing something. That’s not to say there aren’t great alternatives in Europe, of course.

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Taken4Granted