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Looking for advice, which of these FUE surgeons would you choose?

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Just now, Abi28 said:

If you praise HLC more melvin will call you biased, be careful ;)

He has a thread, and he’s a patient, he’s not some anonymous cheerleader. I called you out, because it’s true, and very easily verified by your post history. 

  • Haha 2

I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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Thanks very much everyone. This is all really helpful. 

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Dr Keser has some great hairline Results.  best of luck

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So I’ve noticed, but I can’t get in contact with him.

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Posted (edited)

@bw77 you have some nice options already but I would also advise you to request a diagnosis to @Dr. Bruno Ferreira as he operates just 1 patient per day using DHI with Lion Implanter Pens. He extracts the grafts and then places each one into Lion Implantor Pens that open the hole and implant the graft at the same time thus reducing trauma to the graft. Patients recover faster with DHI and Stick&Place because the holes are smaller as they are not pre-made but instead opened one at a time.

Regarding Dr. Pekiner I was informed yesterday that my friend Paulo that was booked with him for May has been refunded of his 1500€ deposit. His brother Gonçalo was my friend that had his surgery aborted in December due to miniaturized hair (like what happened to @duchaine ) so Paulo was affraid of also having his surgery aborted. Dr. Pekiner said he doesn`t have miniturized hair like his brother but Paulo insisted on a refund and Dr. Pekiner refunded Paulo so he can book Dr. Bruno Ferreira (his brother Gonçalo is now booked for Dr. Bruno on May 28th).

For me this action speaks highly in terms of Ethics of this clinic as I`m pretty sure very few Doctors would refund a patient deposit just because his brother had a surgery aborted at the same clinic.

Edited by Portugal25

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Posted (edited)
On 3/9/2020 at 6:37 PM, Abi28 said:

You are overreacting about Dr Pekiner and saying he tried to ''game the system''.. he is more ethical than your buddy Diep that's for sure

Are you kidding? Did you see what that Pekiner has done to people?

Diep is not always perfect but compared to Pekiner, or really almost anybody in Turkey.. come on.

Turkish transplant docs, for whatever reason, have a real problem with ethics and with poorly monitored surgeries. Doganay is probably the most infamous but it is a common issue that is able to continue due to the ignorance of the average medical tourist. Let's not pretend this isn't an issue with essentially the entire country. There are exceptions, but I've seen this so often it's a joke at this point.

Once their economy stabilizes, perhaps we will see sincerity and ethics akin to Western Europe and America, but right now, if you're going to Turkey, you are walking into a very complicated situation.

Edited by bismarck

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, bismarck said:

Are you kidding? Did you see what that Pekiner has done to people?

Diep is not always perfect but compared to Pekiner, or really almost anybody in Turkey.. come on.

Turkish transplant docs, for whatever reason, have a real problem with ethics and with poorly monitored surgeries. Doganay is probably the most infamous but it is a common issue that is able to continue due to the ignorance of the average medical tourist. Let's not pretend this isn't an issue with essentially the entire country. There are exceptions, but I've seen this so often it's a joke at this point.

Once their economy stabilizes, perhaps we will see sincerity and ethics akin to Western Europe and America, but right now, if you're going to Turkey, you are walking into a very complicated situation.

@bismarck please explain what Pekiner has done to people!

The 1 and olny subpar case he has on all the online foruns (the guy wrote in all) shows the doctor offered a free touch up which is a lot more than what a HRN reccomended clinic like ASMED is doing to their subpar results or even botched/overharvested patients.

I have a friend with a booked surgery to Pekiner and he got a full refund (before the Covid-19) just because his older brother had his surgery aborted with Pekiner due to miniaturized hairs  and he was affraid the same might happen to him. Pekiner told him his hair is not miniaturized like his older brother but offered to refund him 1500€ if he wanted (what other Doctor would do this?).

Edited by Portugal25

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I am not going to directly post cases with subpar results, but my only suggestion is that you look at the foreign language forums.

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Posted (edited)

@bismarck I speak 5 languages and I’m a member of pretty much all the international forums. Besides dredd71 there’s only patients showing good results (reason why I picked him). 

Surely you can understand that if you make negative accusations towards a Doctor then his patients at HRN will be curious to confirm if there’s any truth to your statement so please provide proof to your negative comments regarding the Doctor I chose for my second HT who is actually considered the best in Turkey along with HLC Ankara.

Edited by Portugal25

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I don't think Pekiner is a bad doctor - I definitely think he's one of the better doctors in Turkey.  I also don't think he was trying to "game" the system like everyone else is implying. He simply wanted people to share the results of their procedures with him. Yeah he gave you a slight discount to do so but I don't think he would chase you if you didn't follow up with it. To me if a doctor wanted all his patients to show their entire procedures from beginning to end without knowing the full result means he must be pretty confident in his work.

The only thing I didn't like was how his patient adviser handled the one bad result and it did kind of rub me the wrong way. I don't like when clinics attack and blame their patients when the results don't turn out the way they expect. Unfortunately its one of those situations where you may never know the truth and you can never be sure if it was the fault of the patient or the fault of the clinic.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, bruce90 said:

I don't think Pekiner is a bad doctor - I definitely think he's one of the better doctors in Turkey.  I also don't think he was trying to "game" the system like everyone else is implying. He simply wanted people to share the results of their procedures with him. Yeah he gave you a slight discount to do so but I don't think he would chase you if you didn't follow up with it. To me if a doctor wanted all his patients to show their entire procedures from beginning to end without knowing the full result means he must be pretty confident in his work.

The only thing I didn't like was how his patient adviser handled the one bad result and it did kind of rub me the wrong way. I don't like when clinics attack and blame their patients when the results don't turn out the way they expect. Unfortunately its one of those situations where you may never know the truth and you can never be sure if it was the fault of the patient or the fault of the clinic.

his patient advisor was a tard

 

second, it seems like he keeps turning away patients for "miniaturized donor" after extracting over 100 grafts. That makes no sense to me. Why cant he see this under dermalite photos? I know a patient that got turned away for this exact reason. He went and saw a reputable clinic in turkey and they looked at some of his grafts and donor and said there was no issue. They performed surgery on him and told him they don't know why the surgery was aborted. Personally, I think hes shooing off patients where he know it wont be a homerun in order to make a reputation for himself.

 

oh, and lastly, many have stated on other forums the patient advisor has had negative reviews removed. They apparently tried to do the same here. A clinic that tries to censor has no place on this forum.

Edited by LonelyGraft

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Posted (edited)

@LonelyGraft if you are saying that the patient that was rejected is @duchaine then you are mistaken because he was indeed rejected after a few grafts were extracted but he didn’t have a surgery at another Turkish clinic (he did consult with HLC and they did say they would operate on him at a later date).

But you are correct that his rep lacks CRM skills when confronted and asked for things he shouldn’t. Also true that Pekiner has refused a few patients with miniaturized hairs (like my friend Gonçalo that is now having his HT with Bruno Ferreira on May 29th who’s a Doctor that has more experience with DUPA and miniaturized hairs).

All this doesn’t exclude the fact the apart from 1 patient that had miniaturized hairs and ended up with subpar results,  he’s been hitting nothing but home runs doing a highly skilled doctor only surgery at a affordable price (reason why I picked him and so far so good). 

I also have to say that if I have any type of surgery and the doctor tells me at the beginning of the surgery after having a closer look that he’s not confident he can achieve a good result then I would prefer to abort the surgery so I can then seek another Doctor with more experience towards my particular situation  (in the medical field doctors actually refer their patients to other Doctors that are more skilled for their particular situation and it’s nothing be ashamed of).

Edited by Portugal25

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1 hour ago, Portugal25 said:

@LonelyGraft if you are saying that the patient that was rejected is @duchaine then you are mistaken because he was indeed rejected after a few grafts were extracted but he didn’t have a surgery at another Turkish clinic (he did consult with HLC and they did say they would operate on him at a later date).

But you are correct that his rep lacks CRM skills when confronted and asked for things he shouldn’t. Also true that Pekiner has refused a few patients with miniaturized hairs (like my friend Gonçalo that is now having his HT with Bruno Ferreira on May 29th who’s a Doctor that has more experience with DUPA and miniaturized hairs).

All this doesn’t exclude the fact the apart from 1 patient that had miniaturized hairs and ended up with subpar results,  he’s been hitting nothing but home runs doing a highly skilled doctor only surgery at a affordable price (reason why I picked him and so far so good). 

I also have to say that if I have any type of surgery and the doctor tells me at the beginning of the surgery after having a closer look that he’s not confident he can achieve a good result then I would prefer to abort the surgery so I can then seek another Doctor with more experience towards my particular situation  (in the medical field doctors actually refer their patients to other Doctors that are more skilled for their particular situation and it’s nothing be ashamed of).

I dont want to start throwing names out because it's not fair.

 

So if HLC agreed to perform surgery on @duchaine after pekiner noticed miniaturization, and they are the ones that provided pekiner with a good amount of his training since he worked there for many years, and they are known as one of if not THE most ethical surgery centers in Turkey....why did Pekiner reject him? Seems very fishy.

 

 Also, still doesnt answer the question of why Pekiner started surgery without thoroughly using a dermalite to look for miniaturization. Miniaturization does not require grafts to be extracted (especially in excess of 50-100) as far as I'm aware. He did this with another patient on here from china. Took out a bunch of grafts then stopped mid surgery. Never heard of a doctor doing this. On top of that, it seemed to occur more often after @dredd77 posted his results. Then pekiners rep came in on a mission to try and remove the bad review. Doctors like ferreira and lorenzo strictly use a dermalite to analyze the donor to look for miniaturization and a high percentage of single grafts.

 

So after pekiner rejected @duchaine, who did he refer him to since he was "not confident he can achieve a good result?" Or did he just send him back home? It would also be interesting to know if he also charged him for surgery.

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@LonelyGraft Pekiner aborts surgeries when he’s not confident he will achieve great results and I know he doesn’t charge for aborted surgeries he just charges if he implants grafts. 
My friend Gonçalo had the choice to get a full refund or pay for the 200 grafts extracted and get them implanted.
He chose to get the 200 grafts (I wouldn’t have). 

Pekiner’s not a option for anyone with miniaturized hair because it seems he’s not willing to risk another unhappy miniaturized hair patient like dredd77.

I knew I didn’t have miniaturized hairs so I was confident in choosing Pekiner’ because all other patients are posting great results and he does beard mega sessions. 

If I had miniaturized hairs or DUPA I would never go to anyone in Turkey I would go to Dr. Lorenzo and if I hadn’t the budget for Lorenzo I would go to his colleague Bruno Ferreira. 

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29 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

@LonelyGraft Pekiner aborts surgeries when he’s not confident he will achieve great results and I know he doesn’t charge for aborted surgeries he just charges if he implants grafts. 
My friend Gonçalo had the choice to get a full refund or pay for the 200 grafts extracted and get them implanted.
He chose to get the 200 grafts (I wouldn’t have). 

Pekiner’s not a option for anyone with miniaturized hair because it seems he’s not willing to risk another unhappy miniaturized hair patient like dredd77.

I knew I didn’t have miniaturized hairs so I was confident in choosing Pekiner’ because all other patients are posting great results and he does beard mega sessions. 

If I had miniaturized hairs or DUPA I would never go to anyone in Turkey I would go to Dr. Lorenzo and if I hadn’t the budget for Lorenzo I would go to his colleague Bruno Ferreira. 

That’s fine. I agree with all of your points but none of my questions are answered including the fishy behavior.

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Posted (edited)

@LonelyGraft after I found out about my friend also being rejected I complained to the rep because I felt responsible for having recommending Pekiner and the rep told me that they have started requesting a thricogram to any patient with suspected miniaturized hairs so they can know if they need to reject these patients before they get on a plane to Turkey.

I already told you that HLC didn’t operate on @duchaine they just said they wouldn’t have aborted his surgery and could operate on him at a later date.
Obviously you would have to wait 12 months to see HLC results on Duchaine to say for certain if Pekiner was right or wrong on rejecting him (if I had Duchaine condition I wouldn’t go to HLC either).

Edited by Portugal25

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2 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

@LonelyGraft after I found out about my friend also being rejected I complained to the rep because I felt responsible for having recommending Pekiner and the rep told me that they have started requesting a thricogram to any patient with suspected miniaturized hairs so they can know if they need to reject these patients before they get on a plane to Turkey.

I already told you that HLC didn’t operate on @duchaine they just said they wouldn’t have aborted his surgery and could operate on him at a later date.
Obviously you would have to wait 12 months to see HLC results on Duchaine to say for certain if Pekiner was right or wrong on rejecting him (if I had Duchaine condition I wouldn’t go to HLC either).

Why did it take 200 grafts to realize there was a problem? This makes no sense

 

trichogram? As far as I know trichograms are used for hair counts, not looking for miniaturization. Sounds like more bs to me. There is no doctor out there that uses this even doctors that operate on dupa patients. What does this offer vs a dermalite evaluation?

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, LonelyGraft said:

Why did it take 200 grafts to realize there was a problem? This makes no sense

 

trichogram? As far as I know trichograms are used for hair counts, not looking for miniaturization. Sounds like more bs to me. There is no doctor out there that uses this even doctors that operate on dupa patients. What does this offer vs a dermalite evaluation?

hallo guys,
sorry for my late reply.
At the moment, I do not feel confortabile to share my experience telling about my HT (I gave some infos here and there but I want to wait some time to publish  my report).

Anyway, I can answer to all the questions you made about my experience with Pekiner.
@LonelyGraft asked about payments, refund and the high number of grafts extracted:

a) payments
I paid the deposit  to an unknown woman. The advisor told me that she was pekiner's wife.
Before leaving for turkey, the advisor told me that the clinic doesn't accept credit cards. Only cash
So, the payments are not recorded/tracked at all.
Proof: I've emails and messages proving that


b) miniaturized grafts
the doctor said I was an excellent candidate.
He looked at my head before shaving. He said I had a very good donor area.
After 189 extractions, he said that my grafts were miniaturized.
So, he aborted my HT and showed me tricoscope images.

c) payment refund
The clinic was trying to keep almost all my money (1000 euro if I'm not wrong)  because his assistant said that they hold that money for caution/ deposit and because the doctor in any case made a work on my scalp.
I needed 3 days and several messages to get all my money back.
I said that it was not fair to keep all my money because he aborted the op because HE MADE a wrong diagnosis in the first place.
the clinic gave me half of  money back after about 1 day and the other during the 3th day (after several messages).

When they gave me my money back, the doctor asked me to sign a paper where I say that I asked not to insert grafts.

d) written diagnosis
The advisor said that I would get a written diagnosis via email but I didn't not receive anything.
The only written paper I got is the paper I signed where he says that he extracted 189 grafts and aborted the operation because the grafts were miniaturized. 
He didn't give me any kind of explanation about his statement (why he supposed the grafts were miniaturized, how many of them were miniaturized etc)


My DOUBTS

1) If miniaturization was visibile through tricoscope and in fact he decided to ask for tricoscpoe images for the future, why did he started the extractions instead using the tricoscope?
2) if I have miniaturized grafts, why did the doctor do 189 extractions?
3) why did the doctor take the UF all in the same area?
4) if he was "testing" my donor zone, why didn't he take a lower number of grafts in different areas?
5) if he suspected that my grafts were not good, why didn't he ask me if I accept he extracted a such high number of grafts?

 

Edited by duchaine
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Posted (edited)
On 4/11/2020 at 5:33 PM, Portugal25 said:


Pekiner’s not a option for anyone with miniaturized hair because it seems he’s not willing to risk another unhappy miniaturized hair patient like dredd77.


How can you say that dredd77 had miniaturized hair?

 

Edited by duchaine

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This is all very helpful, so HLC is a good option??? I always said I wouldn't cut corners and compromise quality for price but unfortunately price is a factor. I always thought I'd go with ASMED for a second procedure but donor conservation is important to me and it doesn't seem to be the "home run" it used to be. 

I'm very interested in a procedure with Dr Bisanga but I'd like to keep my options open. If I can get more for less, why not? Is HLC considered a good option? Any disasters I should be concerned about? I've been impressed with what I've seen online and although I haven't read anywhere near the amount of positive reviews I read about ASMED in its heyday, those I've read have been positive. I know that no doctors have perfect records, but it seems to me that by choosing a high level, well known and (unfortunately) expensive doctor you are tipping the odds in your favor...would HLC fit into the high level catagory?

Any thoughts on HLC?

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Don’t know much about that clinic, some say they’re good, others say they’re not. I have no opinion one way or another. My advice is to base your decision off patient results, and not price. I get the feeling you’re looking for the “most affordable” rather than the best. Be careful, as going cheap can become expensive in the end. 


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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I hear ya Melvin, and your advice is sound. I'm looking for a balance. I come from a part of the world where my country's dollar doesn't go as far as the US dollar or Euro and so cost unfortunately matters. 

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Keep in mind if you go to Bisanga in Beligium, there's an additional 21% vat for transplants. 

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On 4/14/2020 at 5:28 PM, MachoVato said:

Keep in mind if you go to Bisanga in Beligium, there's an additional 21% vat for transplants. 

Brutal 

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On 4/14/2020 at 8:28 PM, MachoVato said:

Keep in mind if you go to Bisanga in Beligium, there's an additional 21% vat for transplants. 

21% VAT?????  Is that for local patients or even for others from outside Belgium? 

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