Senior Member giegnosiganoe Posted March 6, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 6, 2020 To start off, it's unclear to me whether telogen phase affects all of the hairs in a graft, or just some of the hairs. Question: It is said that about 10% of hairs (or grafts?) are in the telogen phase at any time. Do these hairs get implanted during FUT or not? Do they actually survive? If the outlook is bad for those hairs, does the FUT really still have better yields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member pre-screened Posted March 6, 2020 Regular Member Share Posted March 6, 2020 Very Interesting question and one for some of the doctors on here I would think? It would be very interesting to discover that for example that in a strip that yielded lets say 3,000 FU's that probabilities would say that some 300 FU's in resting phase were unable to be implanted or properly identified by technicians disecting the strip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted March 6, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 6, 2020 Not with single hair grafts, obviously there is no hair visible in a single follicle that is dormant...but it is possible in a multi hair graft that there could be a follicle in the telogen phase. Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Tbcruz Posted March 6, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 6, 2020 Good question. 1st procedure (8-4-17) - Dr. Luís Nader FUE 1551 grafts. https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/49351-1551-grafts-with-luis-nader/?tab=comments#comment-455985 2nd procedure (2-4-20) - Dr. Blake Bloxham FUT 1986 grafts https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/55933-dr-blake-bloxham-fut/?tab=comments#comment-529401 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted March 6, 2020 Administrators Share Posted March 6, 2020 Excellent question, unfortunately the answer is no. Hairs in the dormant phase are not transplanted, this was what fueled some of the FUE vs FUT debates. That said, the percentage is very small. Something like 10% of hairs are dormant. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted March 10, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 10, 2020 Still, a harvested FU which contained say 3 follicles in its natural state could potentially have a single follicle in the resting phase with no hair shaft present. Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member bismarck Posted March 30, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 30, 2020 They do get implanted. But unfortunately it is likely that they are usually transected and contribute nothing beyond a mild sterile inflammatory response, (not any actual coverage). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyGraft Posted March 31, 2020 Share Posted March 31, 2020 10 hours ago, bismarck said: They do get implanted. But unfortunately it is likely that they are usually transected and contribute nothing beyond a mild sterile inflammatory response, (not any actual coverage). Does that mean any grafts which are damaged during extraction/implantation and do not survive illicit an inflammatory response in the scalp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted March 31, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2020 That may be part of Bis' entertaining sense of humor...😉 Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member bismarck Posted March 31, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2020 Ah let me explain. Here is a hair follicle: I would imagine that, even with magnification loupes, these would be pretty hard to see if dormant. So if an adjacent "sleeping" follicle is partially removed, all that brings with it is cellular debris. My guess is that this dead follicle would cause some inflammation when implanted next to a living follicle (as opposed to the surrounding connective tissue/plug). I could be totally wrong though, it might bring growth factors and extracellular matrix with it that helps growth, or induce just the right amount of hormesis to promote follicle development. I should have probably just not said anything, it's really not a helpful theoretical discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted March 31, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2020 I think everything you contribute in these threads is helpful my friend. I want to make a distinction...a dormant follicle is simply in the resting phase...it is not a dead follicle....once rested it will enter a new growth phase and why even though it may be transplanted while dormant, it can potentially still grow again. Does that make sense? Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member bismarck Posted March 31, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, gillenator said: I think everything you contribute in these threads is helpful my friend. I want to make a distinction...a dormant follicle is simply in the resting phase...it is not a dead follicle....once rested it will enter a new growth phase and why even though it may be transplanted while dormant, it can potentially still grow again. Does that make sense? Yes I agree. I would add that this is true only if the dermal papillae/stem cell are transplanted, not if its the shaft or some other part of the hair follicle (ie. the stem or root). And if a follicle is in telogen, the chances of getting the stem cell perfectly are unlikely if you can't see it, particularly because you're not even aiming for that hair, you're aiming for the one that you can actually see. There's been a lot of discussion about this in the past, I think the answer was no one knew if dormant follicles were being successfully transplanted, it stands to reason that some are, but if it's by blind luck, it's probably not many. In those with denser donor hair more often, in those with less dense donor hair less often. It would be pretty tough to test this hypothesis so I'm not sure of what use it is at this point. Remember Nigam's supposed "stem cell duplication" from a few years back? He was trying to divide stem cells intentionally under high magnification and didn't have much success. Edited March 31, 2020 by bismarck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member gillenator Posted March 31, 2020 Senior Member Share Posted March 31, 2020 That's an important distinction that you make Bis, and please read my prior post on the 10th where I make a point to mention a harvested "FU", not a single hair graft. A stand alone dormant hair follicle is nearly impossible to harvest intact for the reasons that you provided however if there is a dormant follicle or more inter-mingled in a multi-hair bearing FU, then I believe the chances of harvesting it intact go way up and as mentioned before, will produce a hair shaft after adequately resting. And I also will concur that this does happen by "blind luck" and yes probably not many because to begin with, resting follicles only comprise of approximately 10% of the overall scalp. So in the end, 10% is not going to have a significant difference in visual density but I have always been of the opinion that every follicle is precious, limited, and invaluable. . Gillenator Independent Patient Advocate I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk. Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LonelyGraft Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 10 hours ago, bismarck said: Yes I agree. I would add that this is true only if the dermal papillae/stem cell are transplanted, not if its the shaft or some other part of the hair follicle (ie. the stem or root). And if a follicle is in telogen, the chances of getting the stem cell perfectly are unlikely if you can't see it, particularly because you're not even aiming for that hair, you're aiming for the one that you can actually see. There's been a lot of discussion about this in the past, I think the answer was no one knew if dormant follicles were being successfully transplanted, it stands to reason that some are, but if it's by blind luck, it's probably not many. In those with denser donor hair more often, in those with less dense donor hair less often. It would be pretty tough to test this hypothesis so I'm not sure of what use it is at this point. Remember Nigam's supposed "stem cell duplication" from a few years back? He was trying to divide stem cells intentionally under high magnification and didn't have much success. Are you a member of other hair loss forums like hlt? Your knowledge regarding hair loss as well as style of writing reminds me of someone from there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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