Disappointing Baubac/Armani results - 2,500 grafts (with photos)

[Ranger99]

After much delay, my apologies, here is my story, finally.

I had a disappointing hair transplant with Dr. Baubac of Alvi Armani a couple of years ago. I am going to keep this short and simple.

Stats: NW2-3, allegedly 2,500 FUE grafts at Beverly Hills office.

(Dislcaimer: I am not an expert and the following are just my personal opinions)

The good:

• Price was somewhat negotiable
• Procedure and experience was comfortable

The bad:

1. Poor yield
2. Uneven hairline
3. Poor hair angulation of hair that did yield
4. Patchy, overharvested donor area
5. Scalp fibrosis in transplant area, resulting in raised scalp
6. Nobody from patient care or Alvi Armani contacted me post op! 
7. A non-disclosure agreement (NDA) was suddenly provided to me on the morning of my surgery. Who would back out this close to a surgery if they didn't like what was in the NDA, especially if they travelled from out of town? Seems unfair to me.

 

1. Poor yield 

Two years post op.

 

2. Uneven hairline

I can't believe this would happen. The new hairline was initially felt-marked in (as is standard practice with all HT surgeons), seemingly quickly. I noticed the assymetry immediately post op and told the nurse. She dismissed it as being due to swelling. Well, after all the swelling had gone down, the assymetry remained. In the following photo, I put in a line to show the uneven temples. However, the assymetry begins before the temples. This was taken a few days post op. The assymetry is more noticeable in real life and especially at certain angles. 

 

 

3. Poor angulation

It's difficult at times to style the hairline, as it seems the angulation is all over the place and the cowlick that I had was not transplanted out, which is what Hasson and Wong say is the norm for a good transplant. As a side note, there is one transplant that has four or five hairs coming out of one hole and is noticeable close up. Very unnatural looking.

The following photo is taken in the morning (obvious bed head), but I can't find a better photo that shows the bad angulation. I'll see about taking a macro photo.

 

4. Patchy, overharvested areas of donor area

With a number 2 or 3 buzz, the donor area reveals patches that you can see in certain lighting/angle situations. Even at the time of the surgery, I felt the harvesting was rather quickly done.

PHOTOS TO COME

 

5. Scalp fibrosis in transplant area, resulting in raised scalp

Not sure if other transplantees know what I am talking about here, but it's like there is this raised, slightly hardened tissue in the transplant area that actually raises the scalp. It's lumpy, probably due to deep tissue scarring or something.

PHOTOS TO COME (However, it may be difficult ot show this)

6. Nobody from patient care or Alvi Armani contacted me post op! 

What more needs to be said?

7. A non-disclosure agreement (NDA) was suddenly provided to me on the morning of my surgery. Who would back out this close to a surgery if they didn't like what was in the NDA, especially if they travelled from out of town? Seems unfair to me.

Some highlights from the surprise Armani NDA.

Conclusion:

I asked Dr. Baubac for a refund and they refused. Instead, they offered to do the transplant again (at no cost to me), to which I declined. 

 

Baubac biz card that I received while at his office:

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Ranger99

[Kaya]

Can you please attach preop and 10 day photos?

How much did you end up paying?

[Ranger99]

20 minutes ago, Kaya said:

Can you please attach preop and 10 day photos?

How much did you end up paying?

Cost was roughly $18,000 USD.

 

Preop:

 

 

And here is 10-days post op, as you requested:

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by Ranger99

[Abi28]

-

Edited January 10, 2020 by Abi28

[LonelyGraft]

I’m sorry to hear about your experience and the lack of post op care you describe.

 

I’ve heard rumors of patients signing NDAs. Are you afraid of any repercussions?

[Gasthoerer]

I feel with you: It is horrible to go through that long process, pay a lot of money and end up with a non satisfying result. But also great that you share you story: Not many results form patients from this clinic.

Comments from my side:

- Density is subpar (but this unfortunately can always happen)

- Graft angulation cannot be seen on this pics (please show some with combed backwards hairline

- Donor cannot be seen (as you said PICS will follow)

- Hairline has to match you facial features --> A great hairline is not necessarily straight, not even in nature. To straight often looks unnatural. A good clinic will measurer your facial features and draw hairline accordingly.

Examples for uneven hairlines made by nature:

- https://www.gqmiddleeast.com/grooming/jake-gyllenhaal-hair-journey

- https://www.newsweek.com/game-thrones-jon-snow-getting-new-love-interest-507448

[1978matt]

Maybe you should contact Joe T and ask if one of his other 'approved' doctors can fix it for free...

[Melvin- Admin]

I’m terribly sorry you had to go through this, unfortunately no surgery can ever be guaranteed. 

As a forum, were here for you, have you spoken with the clinic? What is their proposal? We had a long history with Dr. Armani in the past, he actually sued us because we wouldn’t remove negative reviews. I don’t know much about this physician, but hopefully his ethics are better. 

Do you mind taking better pictures? Your hairline appears spread apart and it’s difficult to gauge the real results. Try to take photos outdoors with your hair styled normally, so we can compare. 
 

Best wishes, 

Melvin

[Ranger99]

10 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I’m terribly sorry you had to go through this, unfortunately no surgery can ever be guaranteed. 

As a forum, were here for you, have you spoken with the clinic? What is their proposal? We had a long history with Dr. Armani in the past, he actually sued us because we wouldn’t remove negative reviews. I don’t know much about this physician, but hopefully his ethics are better. 

Do you mind taking better pictures? Your hairline appears spread apart and it’s difficult to gauge the real results. Try to take photos outdoors with your hair styled normally, so we can compare. 
 

Best wishes, 

Melvin

Spread apart? Perhaps due to the poor yield. I'll get some more photos.

[Ranger99]

14 hours ago, 1978matt said:

Maybe you should contact Joe T and ask if one of his other 'approved' doctors can fix it for free...

Who is Joe T?

 

I went to a renowed HT surgeon (someone I should have went to from the beginning) not long ago and he recommended doing a scalp reduction (to eliminate the scarred transplanted area), so that he could transplant on to a fresh scalp. Of course, this is very costly and would have used up nearly all my remaining donor hairs. Told him I would think about it but I doubt I will do it. I don't have faith in HT anymore, nor do I want to dish out thousands of dollars again. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Ranger99

[Sam818]

16 minutes ago, Ranger99 said:

Who is Joe T?

Joe Tillman is a hair transplant guru who recommends Baubac and has a youtube channel. I understand the guy has got to eat but he should provide more clarity on how he recommends doctors. In a post I found by him on the b truth forum he mentioned how he never met Baubac or visited his clinic he only had pleasant phone conversations with him. That's it? That's all it takes when you claim you would allow any of the doctors you recommend to operate on you. Also Joe Tillman talks about how much he values post op care with doctors. There is no post op care with Baubac, nobody cares there. And if he is really a patient advocate as he claims why does he recommend a doctor that surprises his patients with an NDA agreement on the day of their procedure? Is that ethical? This is a great forum because hacks like Baubac are not welcome here.

16 minutes ago, Ranger99 said:

I went to a renowed HT surgeon (someone I should have went to from the beginning) not long ago and he recommended doing a scalp reduction (to eliminate the scarred area), so that he could transplant on fresh scalp. Of course, this is very costly and would have used up nearly all my remaining donor hairs. Told him I would think about it but I doubt I will do it. I don't have faith in HT anymore, nor do I want to dish out thousands of dollars again.

I know exactly what you mean with your scalp issues and this is definitely a poor result but a scalp reduction seems drastic, no?

 

[1978matt]

1 minute ago, Sam818 said:

Joe Tillman is a hair transplant guru who recommends Baubac and has a youtube channel. I understand the guy has got to eat but he should provide more clarity on how he recommends doctors. In a post I found by him on the b truth forum he mentioned how he never met Baubac or visited his clinic he only had pleasant phone conversations with him. That's it? That's all it takes when you claim you would allow any of the doctors you recommend to operate on you. Also Joe Tillman talks about how much he values post op care with doctors. There is no post op care with Baubac, nobody cares there. And if he is really a patient advocate as he claims why does he recommend a doctor that surprises his patients with an NDA agreement on the day of their procedure? Is that ethical? This is a great forum because hacks like Baubac are not welcome here.

lol. Goodness me, I wasn't aware of that but had assumed he at least visited these places for a day to observe what goes on.

[Ranger99]

14 minutes ago, Sam818 said:

Joe Tillman is a hair transplant guru who recommends Baubac and has a youtube channel. I understand the guy has got to eat but he should provide more clarity on how he recommends doctors. In a post I found by him on the b truth forum he mentioned how he never met Baubac or visited his clinic he only had pleasant phone conversations with him. That's it? That's all it takes when you claim you would allow any of the doctors you recommend to operate on you. Also Joe Tillman talks about how much he values post op care with doctors. There is no post op care with Baubac, nobody cares there. And if he is really a patient advocate as he claims why does he recommend a doctor that surprises his patients with an NDA agreement on the day of their procedure? Is that ethical? This is a great forum because hacks like Baubac are not welcome here.

I know exactly what you mean with your scalp issues and this is definitely a poor result but a scalp reduction seems drastic, no?

 

The NDA agreement—thanks for reminding me. I am going to add that to the bad list.

[Ranger99]

26 minutes ago, Sam818 said:

Joe Tillman is a hair transplant guru who recommends Baubac and has a youtube channel. I understand the guy has got to eat but he should provide more clarity on how he recommends doctors. In a post I found by him on the b truth forum he mentioned how he never met Baubac or visited his clinic he only had pleasant phone conversations with him. That's it? That's all it takes when you claim you would allow any of the doctors you recommend to operate on you. Also Joe Tillman talks about how much he values post op care with doctors. There is no post op care with Baubac, nobody cares there. And if he is really a patient advocate as he claims why does he recommend a doctor that surprises his patients with an NDA agreement on the day of their procedure? Is that ethical? This is a great forum because hacks like Baubac are not welcome here.

I know exactly what you mean with your scalp issues and this is definitely a poor result but a scalp reduction seems drastic, no?

 

Yes, it does seem drastic. It seems to me a decent result could be achieved by transplanting in and around the poor yield, but I am no expert. This might be what Armani had in mind when they offered to do a free transplant, but there is no way I would ever go to them again, free or not.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Ranger99

[Sam818]

17 minutes ago, Ranger99 said:

Yes, it does seem drastic. It seems to me a decent result could be achieved by transplanting in and around the poor yield, but I am no expert. This might be what Armani had in mind when they offered to do a free transplant, but there is no way I would ever go to them again, free or not.

No, you shouldn't trust them or anyone who was ever associated with that clinic to even give you a flu shot. I do not claim to be an expert but I have seen many much worse repair cases where a corrective procedure was done without having to do a scalp reduction. I think you should consult with some of the other top coalition doctors. Trust me, I know exactly how you feel after a horrible procedure with an unethical doctor but if it bothers you I really don't think your situation is anything close to hopeless. As long as you still have available donor hair you don't have to live with this result.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Sam818

[Abi28]

39 minutes ago, Sam818 said:

I know exactly what you mean with your scalp issues and this is definitely a poor result but a scalp reduction seems drastic, no?

 

lol some doctors in the US live in the 90s and can get away with murder, who does scalp reduction? wtf 😐

[Ranger99]

6 minutes ago, Abi28 said:

lol some doctors in the US live in the 90s and can get away with murder, who does scalp reduction? wtf 😐

I am not sure if technically "scalp reduction" is what the term is for what this particular surgeon suggested, but it seemed that way. Either way, the suggestion was to remove the scarred scalp area. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Ranger99

[Abi28]

12 minutes ago, Ranger99 said:

I am not sure if technically "scalp reduction" is what the term is for what this particular surgeon suggested, but it seemed that way. Either way, the suggestion was to remove the scarred scalp area. 

If you plan on using a time machine to go back to the 90's then yes go ahead and do a scalp reduction.

This is absurd, don't ever go to that doctor again, you are clearly going to the wrong doctors.. you can fix your hair with 1000 grafts via FUE, your hair situation is not that bad compared to some of the stuff on this forum, make sure you research the doctor well on the forum and see actual results posted by patients.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Abi28

[Ranger99]

2 hours ago, Abi28 said:

If you plan on using a time machine to go back to the 90's then yes go ahead and do a scalp reduction.

This is absurd, don't ever go to that doctor again, you are clearly going to the wrong doctors.. you can fix your hair with 1000 grafts via FUE, your hair situation is not that bad compared to some of the stuff on this forum, make sure you research the doctor well on the forum and see actual results posted by patients.

I'm not getting a scalp reduction. I was just speaking objectively. As I said, I have little faith in hair surgeons. Don't know if I will even bother getting this poor result fixed. If it's only 1,000 grafts that I needed to fix it, I might consider it, but what kind of yield will there be in a scarred scalp?

Edited January 11, 2020 by Ranger99

[Abi28]

24 minutes ago, Ranger99 said:

I'm not getting a scalp reduction. I was just speaking objectively. As I said, I have little faith in hair surgeons. Don't know if I will even bother getting this poor result fixed. If it's only 1,000 grafts that I needed to fix it, I might consider it, but what kind of yield will there be in a scarred scalp?

I recommend you going to turkey, there are some good surgeons over there, why pay more than 10,000$ to get it fixed in the US, contact a few surgeons online, guys like HLC and Keser are exceptional, you can search them on the forum and see real results by patient, repair procedures are common, a lot of guys do FUE into an FUT scar so you should not have any yield problems, contact a few doctors online and send them your pictures and they will tell you everything, you will be fine.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Abi28

[iSlack]

14 hours ago, Abi28 said:

I recommend you going to turkey, there are some good surgeons over there, why pay more than 10,000$ to get it fixed in the US, contact a few surgeons online, guys like HLC and Keser are exceptional, you can search them on the forum and see real results by patient, repair procedures are common, a lot of guys do FUE into an FUT scar so you should not have any yield problems, contact a few doctors online and send them your pictures and they will tell you everything, you will be fine.

Who is HLC?

[ITA]

3 minutes ago, iSlack said:

Who is HLC?

Hair Line Clinic in Ankara 

[1978matt]

15 hours ago, Ranger99 said:

I'm not getting a scalp reduction. I was just speaking objectively. As I said, I have little faith in hair surgeons. Don't know if I will even bother getting this poor result fixed. If it's only 1,000 grafts that I needed to fix it, I might consider it, but what kind of yield will there be in a scarred scalp?

I would recommend NOT going to Turkey. 

There is a difference between implanting into a wide donor scar versus an area that was peppered with incisions. You need a considered approach where a modest density is attempted first, to see how well the growth pans out. If that works out well you can boost the density another time. 

In Turkey you run the risk of the doc just pushing maximum grafts and profit. 

[Curious]

The placement of the grafts looks  pretty good.  It's hard to tell what you're talking about with respect to density given the pictures you've posted.  Have you lost more hair due to mpb since your transplant two years ago?

[Runandy]

5 hours ago, 1978matt said:

I would recommend NOT going to Turkey. 

There is a difference between implanting into a wide donor scar versus an area that was peppered with incisions. You need a considered approach where a modest density is attempted first, to see how well the growth pans out. If that works out well you can boost the density another time. 

In Turkey you run the risk of the doc just pushing maximum grafts and profit. 

From all the research I’ve done the past several years, there are amazing results coming out of Turkey for a fraction of the cost. There are bad clinics there and good clinics there. For 18k the poster got this result from a ‘renowned clinic’. Results should dictate whether a surgeon is renowned, not the price of the surgery or through previous reputation. I do know that some people complain of how many patients are processed through each day at some of these Turkey clinics, but I don’t know about you, but the more I do something the better I get...

Edited January 12, 2020 by Runandy