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Ranger99

Disappointing Baubac/Armani results - 2,500 grafts (with photos)

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4 hours ago, Curious said:

The placement of the grafts looks  pretty good.  It's hard to tell what you're talking about with respect to density given the pictures you've posted.  Have you lost more hair due to mpb since your transplant two years ago?

You really think the density is acceptable?! 

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Based on the photos posted so far, I can't tell if the density of the transplant is lacking.  Has this poster lost more hair since the transplant, is he on finasteride?  What did the doctor do to cause "scalp fibrosis"?

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16 hours ago, Runandy said:

From all the research I’ve done the past several years, there are amazing results coming out of Turkey for a fraction of the cost. There are bad clinics there and good clinics there. For 18k the poster got this result from a ‘renowned clinic’. Results should dictate whether a surgeon is renowned, not the price of the surgery or through previous reputation. I do know that some people complain of how many patients are processed through each day at some of these Turkey clinics, but I don’t know about you, but the more I do something the better I get...

AA have not been a renowned clinic for years, 10 years + in fact, and are know for the occasional botch job.

I work with someone who paid $3000 in Turkey in December 2018, 5000 grafts.  One year on he looks no different to what he did (NW6 with a few hairs on top).  the result looks like 1000 grafts at best with a hairline too low and stalky.

He only went to this place as another guy in our office went there and got an OK outcome.  So in a sample of 2 Turkish surgeries I have seen live there was a 50% failure rate.


4,312 FUT grafts (7,676 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2013

1,145 FUE grafts (3,152 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - August 2018

763 FUE grafts (2,094 hairs) with Ray Konior, MD - January 2020

My results thread from 1st procedure.

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5 hours ago, 1978matt said:

AA have not been a renowned clinic for years, 10 years + in fact, and are know for the occasional botch job.

I work with someone who paid $3000 in Turkey in December 2018, 5000 grafts.  One year on he looks no different to what he did (NW6 with a few hairs on top).  the result looks like 1000 grafts at best with a hairline too low and stalky.

He only went to this place as another guy in our office went there and got an OK outcome.  So in a sample of 2 Turkish surgeries I have seen live there was a 50% failure rate.

I’m not here to defend Turkey, but like I said there are wonderful clinics there that put out consistent work. To just write off a whole country from a sample size of 2 people seems a bit extreme. 

Edited by Runandy

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1 hour ago, Runandy said:

I’m not here to defend Turkey, but like I said there are wonderful clinics there that put out consistent work. To just write off a whole country from a sample size of 2 people seems a bit extreme. 

I think the point is the amount of bad clinics outnumber the good clinics. I can count the clinics I’d go to on one hand. 

The unfortunate trend nowadays is guys going to Turkey in search for the most grafts at the cheapest price, instead of the best result. The industry has grown over hype, not reputation. 

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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On 1/11/2020 at 4:05 PM, Curious said:

The placement of the grafts looks  pretty good.  It's hard to tell what you're talking about with respect to density given the pictures you've posted.  Have you lost more hair due to mpb since your transplant two years ago?

Not to my awareness. My recession has always been very gradual, since I was 21. By the way, the photo in point #3 is about one year-post op. 

 

Here's another one (about 22 months post op).

 

 

g.jpg

 

At no time after the transplant was the hairline on the left side defined. It was always thin, just as it was before the transplant. Definition is a little better on the right side. To me, the before and after difference overall is marginal. The biggest difference is the $18,000 void in my wallet!

Edited by Ranger99

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On 1/12/2020 at 5:12 AM, Runandy said:

You really think the density is acceptable?! 

I think no one is saying that: But several people say - We need proper pics to make an evaluation. Remember: Poor growth can happen with any clinic. Wrong angles should not happen in a top-clinic. 

1 hour ago, Ranger99 said:

Here's another one (about 22 months postop).

Is this the way you style it when going out? You also mentioned poor angulation, it is hard to see it that way? Can you comb it in one direction (same as the remaining hair)?

On 1/12/2020 at 5:09 AM, Runandy said:

I do know that some people complain of how many patients are processed through each day at some of these Turkey clinics, but I don’t know about you, but the more I do something the better I get...

There are great clinics and turkey (a handful) and poor clinics (several thousands propably). Otherwise this comment makes no sense. You get better, when you practise and get feedback. If one surgeon (or often no (!) surgeon) "supervises 12 surgeries with 6 to 8 teams, how does this team become better? And who guarantees the members of the team does not get better after my surgery and not before?

Edited by Gasthoerer

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Did the second doctor you went to confirm with you that you had poor angulation on the grafts and enough scalp damage that scalp reduction was your best option? I don’t doubt you have some punctuate scarring where you didn’t get growth but I’m still struggling to figure out how that was recommended to you when I don’t see enough tissue damage to warrant that at least from the pics posted. That’s usually a last resort for guys who got mini grafts done 20 years and need to be repaired.

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32 minutes ago, Sam818 said:

Did the second doctor you went to confirm with you that you had poor angulation on the grafts and enough scalp damage that scalp reduction was your best option? I don’t doubt you have some punctuate scarring where you didn’t get growth but I’m still struggling to figure out how that was recommended to you when I don’t see enough tissue damage to warrant that at least from the pics posted. That’s usually a last resort for guys who got mini grafts done 20 years and need to be repaired.

I feel bad for the guy especially since he paid 18,000$ but he is clearly going to the wrong doctors, the fact that this doctor suggested scalp reduction is insane especially in 2020, his situation is actually not bad, 1000 grafts will camouflage the bad angled hair and add more density, if I were him I would go to turkey, it will cost him between 1500$-3000$ depending on the doctor, no point in doing it in the US and spending another 10,000$ imo

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I think it would help the discussion to not focus on a country but on a specific surgeon/clinic. Seeing this result I would say really not what I would expect(especially for 18k bucks...) so shall I now say the US is a bad country doing a HT denigrating all the good ones that are there?

Same for the turkish clinics - the great ones that are there should not be thrown into the same bucket with the really poor and industrial ones (unfortunately the vast majority) only because they are based in the same country...

Just my 2 cents.

 

All the best

Carjoca

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OP, are you on Finasteride or Dutasteride? If so I would say the likelihood of your natives thinning naturally in such a short time is unlikely though possible.

Another possibility is that you've suffered permanent shock loss, which could partly be the clinic's fault based on the scalp trauma you're describing. Individuals can obviously have unforeseen complications out of the doctor's control, but if the grafts are mis angled on top of that I'd lean more towards a clinic error.

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12 hours ago, Ranger99 said:

Not to my awareness. My recession has always been very gradual, since I was 21. By the way, the photo in point #3 is about one year-post op. 

 

Here's another one (about 22 months post op).

 

 

g.jpg

 

At no time after the transplant was the hairline on the left side defined. It was always thin, just as it was before the transplant. Definition is a little better on the right side. To me, the before and after difference overall is marginal. The biggest difference is the $18,000 void in my wallet!

I’m actually shocked any surgeon would suggest a scalp reduction, who was this surgeon? 

Okay, so here are my thoughts, the yield appears sparse. I can’t speak on poor angulation, as it isn’t visible in these pictures.

I understand your frustration, but by no means would I call this a botch job. we don’t have any affiliation with this clinic, and we never would, but I’m a straight shooter and we’re all about truth, and trust through transparency on this forum. That is our mantra. 

My advice is to consult with some of our coalition surgeons, such as Cooley, Konior, Gabel etc for their ethical and professional advice. Be weary of anyone trying to push Turkey, as mentioned earlier, you’re not in a position to gamble, and believe me that’s a gamble. 

 

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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30 minutes ago, Carjoca said:

I think it would help the discussion to not focus on a country but on a specific surgeon/clinic. Seeing this result I would say really not what I would expect(especially for 18k bucks...) so shall I now say the US is a bad country doing a HT denigrating all the good ones that are there?

Same for the turkish clinics - the great ones that are there should not be thrown into the same bucket with the really poor and industrial ones (unfortunately the vast majority) only because they are based in the same country...

Just my 2 cents.

 

All the best

Carjoca

There are bad surgeons everywhere, but low-cost Turkish clinics are ruining the industry. Even Turkish clinics will tell you this, not to mention the medical standards in the US are different, in certain states it is illegal for a technician to score skin.

In Turkey, there might not even be a doctor on the sight. I’m not going to pretend like this isn’t a big issue, and neither should the community. 

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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No one is going to pay 10k+ for hair transplant surgery in Turkey. It's supply/demand that rates the cost of surgery there and with hundreds of clinics competing for business, it drives the cost down. For many, we all think the higher cost something is, the better it is. That is not always the case. Fortunately, these lower cost clinics in Turkey provide an effective result to those who don't have disposable income. No longer are these procedures just for the rich. There ARE great clinics (more than a handful) that provide excellent results time after time in Turkey at a fraction of the cost. The best research is to look at unbiased patient reviews on this site and multiple other forums.

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17 minutes ago, Runandy said:

No one is going to pay 10k+ for hair transplant surgery in Turkey. It's supply/demand that rates the cost of surgery there and with hundreds of clinics competing for business, it drives the cost down. For many, we all think the higher cost something is, the better it is. That is not always the case. Fortunately, these lower cost clinics in Turkey provide an effective result to those who don't have disposable income. No longer are these procedures just for the rich. There ARE great clinics (more than a handful) that provide excellent results time after time in Turkey at a fraction of the cost. The best research is to look at unbiased patient reviews on this site and multiple other forums.

There you go proving my point, the focus is on money. Trust me, money comes and goes, but you can never replace your donor supply. I’ve been here long enough to know that there’s really only a handful of good clinics, and the rest are just good at marketing.

Your last point is true, and that is what any potential patient should go by, not so-called hair transplant “gurus” or even me for that matter, but other patients with no bias.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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On 1/10/2020 at 12:19 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

I’m terribly sorry you had to go through this, unfortunately no surgery can ever be guaranteed. 

As a forum, were here for you, have you spoken with the clinic? What is their proposal? We had a long history with Dr. Armani in the past, he actually sued us because we wouldn’t remove negative reviews. I don’t know much about this physician, but hopefully his ethics are better. 

Do you mind taking better pictures? Your hairline appears spread apart and it’s difficult to gauge the real results. Try to take photos outdoors with your hair styled normally, so we can compare. 
 

Best wishes, 

Melvin

Woa, you weren’t kidding regarding the suit in the past—

http://www.dmlp.org/threats/alvi-armani-medical-inc-v-hennessey

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19 hours ago, Ranger99 said:

Not to my awareness. My recession has always been very gradual, since I was 21. By the way, the photo in point #3 is about one year-post op. 

 

Here's another one (about 22 months post op).

 

 

g.jpg

 

At no time after the transplant was the hairline on the left side defined. It was always thin, just as it was before the transplant. Definition is a little better on the right side. To me, the before and after difference overall is marginal. The biggest difference is the $18,000 void in my wallet!

Ranger, definitely this is something that needs to be rectified.  At 22 months, there is sparsity that isn’t supported by natural lighting.  Did you get consults from other docs to see what they say?  Sometimes it helps getting multiple viewpoints to see how this should be addressed.  I hope you get this resolved and can move forward.  Wish you the best

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Do you know the density per cm2 in your recipient area?  What concerns me is when you mentioned scalp fibrosis and raised scalp.  What are the options around that?

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