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elicochin

One Final validation (and push) from you all before I take the plunge!

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Hi All,

My names is Josh and a BIG THANK you to all those who contribute to this forum and host it. I greatly appreciate this and wish to thank you personally! I am very excited to inform you that I have decided to go with Eugenix in India for my HT surgery. I'm 52 years old, although my hair loss began around 25 and I think I'm now a NW6. I believe that my hair loss/balding has been stable for more than 6 years or so. I've never taken any hair loss medication of any kind ever and not planning to take any in the future as well. I have been trimming my hair to zero for more than 8 years or so. The pictures in my profile are very recent. (Link to my Profile pictures)

My HT Objectives: Reconstruction of an age appropriate (high and receded) hairline and temples with dense and natural look. Coverage of frontal scalp, mid-scalp with moderate coverage of crown. Ability to keep buzz-cut hairstyle after HT.

Background: I consulted with Dr. Arika Bansal (mostly) and Dr. Pradeep Sethi over WhatsApp with help from their business rep (Nelson) in June. They were patient in listening to my needs and going over various options. After a series communication lasted over multiple days, Dr. Arika Bansal provided the following assessments and suggestions: (Please note I have summarized the following from multiple chat sessions and there may be gaps since I have yet to be sent to Eugenix for their confirmation)

Hair-loss Condition: Grade 6 baldness with good donor supply

Estimated HT grafts: Combined total of 3800/4500 grafts

Procedure: 2-day DHT procedure

 

Two options were discussed with conservative hairline approach

OPTION1: (with 2000 scalp extraction and 2000 from Beard)

Cover more area and the crown left would be much lesser.

OPTION2: (with 1500 scalp extraction and 2500 from Beard)

Limit extraction from scalp to avoid visible donor thinning allowing buzz-cut.

 

Procedure:

Scalp grafts are for the mainstay of hairline and temple restoration and provide much denser look than beard grafts. Beard grafts to be used for mid-scalp and crown. Temporal hump hair will not be extracted as they may undergo loss in future 4 to 5 years. If you want to keep the option of buzz cut in future, then there will be a zone of donor thinning that would be evident. This donor thinning is inevitable (hence the option2 was suggested and to be discussed further). Beard donor scarring is minimal, to the extent that it is not visible to the naked eyes. However, there will be microscopic scarring. It would be a two-day procedure since it would be difficult to cover this fully in 1 day.

Suggested Donor Areas:

Scalp 1500/2000 grafts

Beard 2000/2500 grafts

Chest Up to 500  grafts (to be discussed further)

 

Suggested Recipient Areas

Temporal points: 200 x 2 = 400

Hairline: 400

Frontal Scalp Behind Hairline: 400

Mid-scalp: 1500 (option to use only 1000 for medium density)

Crown: 1500/2000 (to be discussed and finalized)

 

As you can imagine, I am overwhelmed as much as excited by my decision and would need your help and validation (and a final push :) ) before I reach out to Eugenix to schedule the surgery date.

Thank you

-Josh

Edited by elicochin

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Hello Josh ,  I just had my HT with Dr Bansal and Dr Sethi @Eugenix Hair Science . I had just under 700 grafts removed fron the beard mostly under the chin , and they were implanted into mid scalp.

You are going to really doctors and a wonderful team .  

I have just written my own thread about my whole experience and will be updating soon again.

All the best for now Josh 

...........Paddy.......

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Can you post photos of your entire head? I am particularly interested in seeing the top and the back. Are you dipping? Any signs of retrograde?

No meds? You are asking for trouble.

I gather, if you're a six, you have some native hair around the perimeter of the crown.  Go ahead and put some grafts in that area, you gradually continue dipping, you've just created a smile in the back.  We call this "chasing the pattern."  You'll end up little to no donor - and will be stuck for the rest of your life.

I understand not wanting to take internal meds given all the hoopla, but get yourself a laser, maybe even Rogaine.

I have homework for you....Go to the mall....Look at people with a pattern similar to you.  A true class 6 does not have hair such as you've described.  Look also at a class 5.  They have an empty crown, have a strong forelock with some hair in the mid scalp.  That's what you should be trying to accomplish so that others don't give you a second look.  It's amazing what having hair in the middle and the top can do for people.  And, keep in mind, we all share a weak back due to the whirl.

Honestly, I would get on meds, stay on them for a year. See what you accomplish and then decide what to do.  This may give you options you don't seem to have at this point. 

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Hi LaserCap, Thank you for your comments and suggestions. Please find the requested photo attached; hope this helps.

I also wanted to get your opinion on a small FUE with SMP considering I have been buzz-cutting my hair for more than 8 years now. What would you think of a very low density FUE hair transplant with like 100 - 200 grafts in the hairline and mid-scalp to have a thicker, better and more realistic hairline and even less grafts  for the crown zone like 15 grafts/cm^2 ? Would it give the illusion of less bald?  So a person could potentially have a 4000-4500-5000 grafts all over the head, let the hair  grow 2-3 mm and have a better illusion and a darker head that would appear hairy enough.

Josh

IMG_6650.jpg

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I hope things turn out well for you. I know there are some very good clinics over seas as well as many more not so good clinics. However, one of my concerns would be if a patients was having a problem they would not be able to just go back to clinic to have their doctor take a look and treat the problem. However, I have been contacted on several occasions by doctore from other countries to see their patients here in Florida and try to help them with any problems they have. 

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@elicochin you could also consider concentrating on the front and mid scalp and as far back you can go. Leave your crown alone for now.

See how your doner is when things settle down , take it one step at a time.

........................Paddy......................

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16 hours ago, Dr. Glenn Charles said:

I hope things turn out well for you. I know there are some very good clinics over seas as well as many more not so good clinics. However, one of my concerns would be if a patients was having a problem they would not be able to just go back to clinic to have their doctor take a look and treat the problem. However, I have been contacted on several occasions by doctore from other countries to see their patients here in Florida and try to help them with any problems they have. 

Thank you for your comments Dr. Glenn. I am very much aware of this situation. Some of the forum members stayed back after the surgery (in the same area/country) for post-op/care by the clinics for a week or so. I am considering this as an option.

-Josh

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@elicochin . Hello Josh. I have posted a thread about my recent experience for scalp and beard doner with information and tips and pictures you will find usefull for your journey.

............Paddy........

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Why would you want a HT in the first place? I'm not saying you shouldn't do it - but the relatively bald head looks pretty good on you, plus you don't have that much donor hair left..

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On 12/12/2019 at 7:55 AM, paddyirishman said:

@elicochin . Hello Josh. I have posted a thread about my recent experience for scalp and beard doner with information and tips and pictures you will find usefull for your journey.

............Paddy........

Hi Paddy,

I have red your thread multiple times and they were immensely useful! Thank you for your time and effort.

Josh

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On 12/12/2019 at 12:35 PM, Toubey said:

Why would you want a HT in the first place? I'm not saying you shouldn't do it - but the relatively bald head looks pretty good on you, plus you don't have that much donor hair left..

Thank you for your thought provoking comment Toubey!

Even though I have thought about why I want an HT many times over the years, your question still got me thinking; why do I want a HT?

To be honest, this would be the first time I share the reasons why I want an HT now even though I have been considering it for the last 10 years or so. My wife loved the buzz-cut style when I started doing it more than 8 years ago. She had always assured me that I look good and discouraged me from going for HT. For me I was fine with it, If my wife was happy I was happy. But, tragedy struck my life 2 years ago, my wife of 22 years died of a heart failure. As you can imagine, this changed everything about my life. I went into some kind of hibernation and withdrew myself from social life for more than a year. Now for the last one year or so, I am trying to become active by going out with friends and participating more and more in social activities. I also realized this incident also brought out all of my insecurities including being bald. Even though I am more active than before, I tend to shy away from activities that require close contact with women who are not my friends. I believe this may have something to do with my level of confidence and any improvement in my appearance may give me a confidence boost in general. I could be completely wrong here, but with my current life situation I am willing to take that chance even though I am afraid of any kind of surgery. So there you go I said it.

BTW, I red your HT story and I hope things are a lot better for you now. 

-Josh

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3 hours ago, elicochin said:

Thank you for your thought provoking comment Toubey!

Even though I have thought about why I want an HT many times over the years, your question still got me thinking; why do I want a HT?

To be honest, this would be the first time I share the reasons why I want an HT now even though I have been considering it for the last 10 years or so. My wife loved the buzz-cut style when I started doing it more than 8 years ago. She had always assured me that I look good and discouraged me from going for HT. For me I was fine with it, If my wife was happy I was happy. But, tragedy struck my life 2 years ago, my wife of 22 years died of a heart failure. As you can imagine, this changed everything about my life. I went into some kind of hibernation and withdrew myself from social life for more than a year. Now for the last one year or so, I am trying to become active by going out with friends and participating more and more in social activities. I also realized this incident also brought out all of my insecurities including being bald. Even though I am more active than before, I tend to shy away from activities that require close contact with women who are not my friends. I believe this may have something to do with my level of confidence and any improvement in my appearance may give me a confidence boost in general. I could be completely wrong here, but with my current life situation I am willing to take that chance even though I am afraid of any kind of surgery. So there you go I said it.

BTW, I red your HT story and I hope things are a lot better for you now. 

-Josh

Damn.

I'm a little surprised that Eugenix can get 2500 grafts from your beard in one go (1 or 2 days). If that's possible, I don't think you'll ever have to shave your neck or under-chin again haha! I personally agree with another poster that a shaved/buzzed look looks good on you, but I would urge you to consider growing your hair out longer than that. @LaserCap made several good points, especially about not worrying too much about the whirl area. 

I would push you to use as much beard/body hair as possible, and like LaserCap said, put that mostly on top, use your donor to solidify/shape your hairline, and grow your hair out. A thinning whirl is normal and doesn't have the same negative connotations that thinning top/front have. You could always address this in another procedure down the line, which will be much less involved than this current (considered) HT.

If you're also attempting to move on from grieving process, I would make another change, and grow your hair and try something new. You're getting an HT after being "discouraged" from getting one, and you had a buzzed haircut because your wife loved it. I would still push through with Eugenix (good clinic and solid results on advanced cases like yours), and grow your hair out to a new style that "fits" your new hair. You say that you want to be with friends and be active, but lack confidence (or see confidence you can get from improving your appearance). A large part of that confidence comes from genuinely being who you are, and having an identity. I don't imagine you want to disrespect the memory of your wife, but it is normal, natural and expected that you forge your own identity. I think at some [sizable] level, you are carrying an identity around that doesn't fit who you are, you subconsciously know this, and thus feel some imposter syndrome. Pretty difficult to speak to women when you're subconsciously thinking that you should not flirt while "married." I think with a change of appearance, a following change of style will lead to a shift in your identity which will allow you to be more "free." I'm not a psychologist, but I can see a pattern.

For reference, my SO liked my hair and also discouraged me from getting an HT. I also looked "good" with a hair part hairstyle.  After convincing, I was finally able to get the HT, even though the SO was nervous. Now, everyone is happy with the results, SO especially. I mean to say this as: The people who love you don't want you to "feel bad" about your appearance. If you're fat, your family won't push you or say you should get lipo. They support you, but are rightfully nervous about surgical options. It's only when you do research, present your case of why you need it and how the surgeon is top-tier that your family will agree to letting you go through with it. 

We're all here for you should you go through with HT or not.


If you're thinking of traveling abroad, consider this read: 
Airfare guide

 

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Elicochin, I get what you mean - and I am very sad to hear about your wife.. Personally though, I don't think I would advise you to do an HT as you have so little donor hair left. - What happens if you need more surgeries down the line? A bald head suits you, man. And believe me when I say that women don't care about hair or no hair. - They care about their overall impression of a man, not small details like the hair.

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20 hours ago, Lennney said:

Damn.

I'm a little surprised that Eugenix can get 2500 grafts from your beard in one go (1 or 2 days). If that's possible, I don't think you'll ever have to shave your neck or under-chin again haha! I personally agree with another poster that a shaved/buzzed look looks good on you, but I would urge you to consider growing your hair out longer than that. @LaserCap made several good points, especially about not worrying too much about the whirl area. 

I would push you to use as much beard/body hair as possible, and like LaserCap said, put that mostly on top, use your donor to solidify/shape your hairline, and grow your hair out. A thinning whirl is normal and doesn't have the same negative connotations that thinning top/front have. You could always address this in another procedure down the line, which will be much less involved than this current (considered) HT.

If you're also attempting to move on from grieving process, I would make another change, and grow your hair and try something new. You're getting an HT after being "discouraged" from getting one, and you had a buzzed haircut because your wife loved it. I would still push through with Eugenix (good clinic and solid results on advanced cases like yours), and grow your hair out to a new style that "fits" your new hair. You say that you want to be with friends and be active, but lack confidence (or see confidence you can get from improving your appearance). A large part of that confidence comes from genuinely being who you are, and having an identity. I don't imagine you want to disrespect the memory of your wife, but it is normal, natural and expected that you forge your own identity. I think at some [sizable] level, you are carrying an identity around that doesn't fit who you are, you subconsciously know this, and thus feel some imposter syndrome. Pretty difficult to speak to women when you're subconsciously thinking that you should not flirt while "married." I think with a change of appearance, a following change of style will lead to a shift in your identity which will allow you to be more "free." I'm not a psychologist, but I can see a pattern.

For reference, my SO liked my hair and also discouraged me from getting an HT. I also looked "good" with a hair part hairstyle.  After convincing, I was finally able to get the HT, even though the SO was nervous. Now, everyone is happy with the results, SO especially. I mean to say this as: The people who love you don't want you to "feel bad" about your appearance. If you're fat, your family won't push you or say you should get lipo. They support you, but are rightfully nervous about surgical options. It's only when you do research, present your case of why you need it and how the surgeon is top-tier that your family will agree to letting you go through with it. 

We're all here for you should you go through with HT or not.

Dear Lennney, Thank you so much for the detailed response and analysis. I came to this forum seeking practical advice from experienced people like you. You say you are not a psychologist, but what you are alluding to makes sense to me and I clearly understand the point you were making. I never excepted to read this sort of analysis on a HT forum. Thank you and keep doing what you are doing.

-Josh

Edited by elicochin
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19 hours ago, Toubey said:

Elicochin, I get what you mean - and I am very sad to hear about your wife.. Personally though, I don't think I would advise you to do an HT as you have so little donor hair left. - What happens if you need more surgeries down the line? A bald head suits you, man. And believe me when I say that women don't care about hair or no hair. - They care about their overall impression of a man, not small details like the hair.

Dear Toubey, Thanks for your kind words. Trust me I am very well aware of the fact that I have limited donor supply. That's why I am also considering a second option of getting low density FUE with SMP that would allow me to keep the current short hair style. What would you think of a very low density FUE hair transplant with like 100 - 200 grafts in the hairline and even less grafts for the mid-scap/crown zone. And add SMP to enhance the overall look?

What I was aiming for an improved less bald look with a matured hairline that would give a decent frame to my face. And because of the the number of hairs extracted from the scalp are less, the scarring would be less allowing me to keep the short hairstyle. And may be even use SMP to tone down whatever scar I may end up with. Euginex in India had mentioned that I should be able to utilize beard grafts for the mid-scalp and crown.

I have also started a separate thread on this topic. Link below for your convenience

-Josh

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Elicochin:

 

What is your age? Depending on your age I might not advise you to get an HT at all.. If you do decide to go for it though, then do all the research you can in advance, and only go to well-reputed docs. And please please stay away from an FUT.. 

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I am 52 years old. I have been doing the research for few years now. I am not fan FUT and if I do a HT, that would be an FUE.

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If you are "only" 52 years old and most of the hair on the top of your head is already gone then I wouldn't advise you to do an HT.. Things would be different if you were just beginning to thin.. But at this point it might require too many surgeries to be worth it. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses - plus you already look good with a shaved head.. Go out and get dem girls, my friend :). 

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On 12/15/2019 at 10:01 AM, Toubey said:

Elicochin:

 

What is your age? Depending on your age I might not advise you to get an HT at all.. If you do decide to go for it though, then do all the research you can in advance, and only go to well-reputed docs. And please please stay away from an FUT.. 

 

On 12/17/2019 at 8:05 AM, Toubey said:

If you are "only" 52 years old and most of the hair on the top of your head is already gone then I wouldn't advise you to do an HT.. Things would be different if you were just beginning to thin.. But at this point it might require too many surgeries to be worth it. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses - plus you already look good with a shaved head.. Go out and get dem girls, my friend :). 

I don't know what answer he would have given for age that would have satisfied you for HT...

Age 20? Most of your head is already gone, wouldn't advise HT.

Age 90? Most of your head is already gone, wouldn't advise HT.

52 is a point where the vast majority of balding has been done, and the point where he realistically has 15 good years of being very active, and whatever years after that of moderate activity. Dating at 52, as a male, keeps you open to relationships with partners in their 30s+. I think it becomes harder in the 60s and 70s to start meaningful, lifelong relationships. I think the confidence boost is enough to go through.

I do agree that OP should keep hair short if he doesn't get HT. I also think OP should test out new hairstyles (preferably some that are significantly different) with an HT - HTs look better with some length to make up for the lower density. At a certain point, the hair looks good. Take this case I recently saw from Eugenix: Look at last picture in the set. You can clearly see that there is a lesser density, but who cares?! The change in appearance is more than enough. It's very transformative. That is the length I advise, nothing too crazy, but definately more than a buzz.

 


If you're thinking of traveling abroad, consider this read: 
Airfare guide

 

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Thank you again Lenny for your response and sharing the recent case from Euginex; looks very encouraging.

If my memory serves me well, I didn't have the best looks with my hair. As far as I remember, It was wavy and difficult to style. What bothers me the most right now is the overall appearance of bald and especially the view from behind. While I can certainly try to have a bit longer hairstyle,  my immediate desire is to reduced the appearance of full-blown bald.

-Josh

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