MY EXPERIENCE WITH DR.KORAY. HAVE I BEEN OVER HARVESTED?

[IronGymmer]

I had 5000 grafts done at asmed 2 weeks ago and my donor is recovering pretty well, and the doctor didn't push for more grafts (5000 was the estimate)

My donor was estimated around 8000 total grafts but I too would be a bit apprehensive about taking that many, seems a bit risky

[Melvin- Admin]

We’ve spoken to the clinic, and they have assured us that they do not offer any discounts for additional grafts. They have told us that they offer discounts to all of their returning patients, regardless of the number of grafts. 
 

In my humble opinion, it’s still too early to be singing doom and gloom. @DEB1982 had around the same number of grafts by Dr. Erdogan as well. These numbers aren’t unheard of, especially with this clinic. But as I mentioned no two people are the same and how we heal differs from person to person. That said, keep us updated on your monthly progress.

I think it’s very important that as patients, and as a community don’t jump to conclusions. I have seen a lot of patients come and throw dirt on their surgeons name, creat a bug fuss, and then several months later ask me to delete their posts. I hope you get a great result. I do believe the donor will improve, but I think you’ll always be able to see a difference in density, even me with 5k grafts, I can see the difference in density.

[Sean]

Dust,  hang in there.  Keep really good documentation and get opinions across several forums.  Keep screenshots as well.  Id recommend reaching out to other known surgeons to see what they say with their professional opinion in like 2-3 months.  See if you can go for in person consults.  If you have a professional opinion, it may help you in long run in many ways.  
 

Is the doctor willing to work with you in case of issues?  These types of things are good to know.  best of luck
 

[dust78]

17 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

We’ve spoken to the clinic, and they have assured us that they do not offer any discounts for additional grafts. They have told us that they offer discounts to all of their returning patients, regardless of the number of grafts. 
 

In my humble opinion, it’s still too early to be singing doom and gloom. @DEB1982 had around the same number of grafts by Dr. Erdogan as well. These numbers aren’t unheard of, especially with this clinic. But as I mentioned no two people are the same and how we heal differs from person to person. That said, keep us updated on your monthly progress.

I think it’s very important that as patients, and as a community don’t jump to conclusions. I have seen a lot of patients come and throw dirt on their surgeons name, creat a bug fuss, and then several months later ask me to delete their posts. I hope you get a great result. I do believe the donor will improve, but I think you’ll always be able to see a difference in density, even me with 5k grafts, I can see the difference in density.

hi Melvin first of all thanks  for your reply and for contacting the clinic, it's a nice detail from you. I would like to answer first of all to what they told you about the discount and I want to be very precise in order to avoid any doubt or ambiguity. It is true for patients who repeat the operation with Koray there is a 15% discount on the price of 2.5 per grafts. But:

In the visit with the doctor we had agreed 3000 grafts that with 15% the price would have been 6375 euro. As I explained in the report once the visit ended the consultant told me that the doctor would like  to make me a proposal that consisted in making me pay 4000 grafts as  if it were 3000 at the price of 2,5 per grafts but without the 15% discount, that would have been 7500 euro instead of 8500 euro (with a discount of 15%). That was the discount im talking about. Otherwise why on earth would I have accepted to go from 3000 grafts to 4000? i decided to go for the 4000 because  of the doctor's insistent reassurance and for the discount. So we passed from 2000/2500 from the mail, to 3000 in the visit to 4000 after the visit.

This is the truth that the clinic cannot deny also because I want to remember that I signed a contract where there is a clause that says that the clinic records the audio of the visits with the doctor, so they cannot deny that at the end of the visit the agreement was 3000 grafts. That's all. Im sorry if i had to give reveal prices like this, but i can't accept that the clinic want to put in doubt what im saying.

 Regarding the fact that some patients worry too much at the beginning but after when things start to go well they change opinion, it is true, and it happened to me in the first operation, the first month I was worried about my donor, but after 4 months everything was back and I was so happy that I decided to open a report in an Italian forum to show the good result, then, after a few months I decided to remove it because I had shown the result and I wanted to keep my privacy.

Now I can't compare the situation  then iwith my situation now, like day and night, today after almost  4 months I am very  worried and demoralized by my situation, i wish my donor was in the conditions in which it was in the first month of the first operation, I would sign for it.
Having said that, it is clear that I will wait a couple more months, but im entering  soon in the 4th month and my hair are almost at 4 cm and we are nowhere close to see the light.
 

Edited November 22, 2019 by dust78

[dust78]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

Dust,  hang in there.  Keep really good documentation and get opinions across several forums.  Keep screenshots as well.  Id recommend reaching out to other known surgeons to see what they say with their professional opinion in like 2-3 months.  See if you can go for in person consults.  If you have a professional opinion, it may help you in long run in many ways.  
 

Is the doctor willing to work with you in case of issues?  These types of things are good to know.  best of luck
 

Hey sean, thanks, yes is what i will do. In january/february i will start to move around and see what i can do if the problem continue. . 

Of course if my aesthetical defect persist we will have to speak seriously about it with the clinic, no doubt about it, for me 6 months is the limit, and is what most of the doctor with who i contacted with told me, 5/6 months you a can  understand how your donor will be.

[dust78]

3 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

n my humble opinion, it’s still too early to be singing doom and gloom. @DEB1982 had around the same number of grafts by Dr. Erdogan as well. These numbers aren’t unheard of, especially with this clinic. But as I mentioned no two people are the same and how we heal differs from person to person. That said, keep us updated on your monthly progress.

I just saw this case. You can see first of all that his donor in the pre surgery is much better then mine, you can barely see the scars and all homogenous and well distributed and he extracted more then 5000 grafts, mine with 4000 grafts was in a worst shape, you can see more the scars and not so well distributed. How the hell is possible to take another 4000 grafts. The second surgery of this guy was only of 2500. And of course you can see that after one month surgery his donor is in good condition. Can't believe this. Now im more convinced that for me it was impossible to take more then 2000/2500 grafts

[Melvin- Admin]

Every one heals differently, by your own admission, you had previously done the same thing. You're doing yourself a huge disservice by convincing yourself of doom, when you don't know yet. Give it some time. At a minimum 6 months. Theres nothing else to say, only time will tell. 

[Sean]

Dust,  thank you for more Information especially regarding the pricing structure to clarify and validate your points on that end.  I agree with your concerns this far, lets hold out for another 2-3 months and re-evaluate the concerns at hand overall.  Then, It will pretty much will confirm if healing timelines were different for everyone or if something was wrong as expressed earlier, by you, the patient. 
 

For now, in the meantime, try to keep yourself healthy and keep your hopes up at least.  I am hoping it resolves for you somehow.  Eat healthy and do as much as you can to relax.  Thanks for sharing your experience.

[dust78]

10 minutes ago, Sean said:

Dust,  thank you for more Information especially regarding the pricing structure to clarify and validate your points on that end.  I agree with your concerns this far, lets hold out for another 2-3 months and re-evaluate the concerns at hand overall.  Then, It will pretty much will confirm if healing timelines were different for everyone or if something was wrong as expressed earlier, by you, the patient. 
 

For now, in the meantime, try to keep yourself healthy and keep your hopes up at least.  I am hoping it resolves for you somehow.  Eat healthy and do as much as you can to relax.  Thanks for sharing your experience.

for my part i try to be as clear as possible i don't have any interest in telling things that are not true.

Thanx for your words, i apreciate it!

 

 

[Fozzie]

5 hours ago, dust78 said:

I just saw this case. You can see first of all that his donor in the pre surgery is much better then mine, you can barely see the scars and all homogenous and well distributed and he extracted more then 5000 grafts, mine with 4000 grafts was in a worst shape, you can see more the scars and not so well distributed. How the hell is possible to take another 4000 grafts. The second surgery of this guy was only of 2500. And of course you can see that after one month surgery his donor is in good condition. Can't believe this. Now im more convinced that for me it was impossible to take more then 2000/2500 grafts

There is quite a difference in donor scarring in the two pictures. As Melvin mentioned, scarring can vary somewhat between different people but do you know what size punch was used in your first procedure in 2013? 

Considering Debs1982 had 5000 grafts in his first procedure, the state of his donor area is pretty impressive imo. 

[dust78]

On 11/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Fozzie said:

There is quite a difference in donor scarring in the two pictures. As Melvin mentioned, scarring can vary somewhat between different people but do you know what size punch was used in your first procedure in 2013? 

Considering Debs1982 had 5000 grafts in his first procedure, the state of his donor area is pretty impressive imo. 

On 11/22/2019 at 1:07 AM, Fozzie said:

There is quite a difference in donor scarring in the two pictures. As Melvin mentioned, scarring can vary somewhat between different people but do you know what size punch was used in your first procedure in 2013? 

Considering Debs1982 had 5000 grafts in his first procedure, the state of his donor area is pretty impressive imo. 

 

the diameter was 0.7 and 0.8

Edited November 23, 2019 by dust78

[ITA]

@dust78 however now you just have to wait and be quiet.

[jonnyalex]

On 11/21/2019 at 6:59 PM, dust78 said:

I just saw this case. You can see first of all that his donor in the pre surgery is much better then mine, you can barely see the scars and all homogenous and well distributed and he extracted more then 5000 grafts, mine with 4000 grafts was in a worst shape, you can see more the scars and not so well distributed. How the hell is possible to take another 4000 grafts. The second surgery of this guy was only of 2500. And of course you can see that after one month surgery his donor is in good condition. Can't believe this. Now im more convinced that for me it was impossible to take more then 2000/2500 grafts

This was my donor after 4500 grafts in 2015 (Only the white marks obviously) with ASMED. I was also very shocked at how bad it looked when my hair was shaved. I think something must have changed in the extraction technique after 2015 because I don't see them leaving people as badly scarred as me and you. I was informed by my latest surgeon that I was very aggressively harvested. 

Much could depend on what team are assigned to you, their experience and ability. Who know's? This is the reality of a hair transplant factory. 

My feelings about this clinic and the way they operate are well known. Another day, another negative story relating to them posted here yet they seemingly remain invincible. The truth is, your donor will get better than how it is now but it is always going to have a depleted feel and thinner appearance. I have accepted that I have to grow mine much longer and shorter styles are out of the question. Had I of known this, I would have definitely had FUT.  

I really hope one day cloning become's a reality (though I massively doubt we will see this within our lifetimes) just so I can put hair's BACK into the donor.  

Edited November 24, 2019 by jonnyalex

[dust78]

3 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

This was my donor after 4500 grafts in 2015 (Only the white marks obviously) with ASMED. I was also very shocked at how bad it looked when my hair was shaved. I think something must have changed in the extraction technique after 2015 because I don't see them leaving people as badly scarred as me and you. I was informed by my latest surgeon that I was very aggressively harvested. 

Much could depend on what team are assigned to you, their experience and ability. Who know's? This is the reality of a hair transplant factory. 

My feelings about this clinic and the way they operate are well known. Another day, another negative story relating to them posted here yet they seemingly remain invincible. The truth is, your donor will get better than how it is now but it is always going to have a depleted feel and thinner appearance. I have accepted that I have to grow mine much longer and shorter styles are out of the question. Had I of known this, I would have definitely had FUT.  

I really hope one day cloning become's a reality (though I massively doubt we will see this within our lifetimes) just so I can put hair's BACK into the donor.  

It can be that they change something since then but what is inexplicable and unacceptable is that they persisted in depleting my donor in that way. Either with long hair it  seem depleted and empty- Now i ask, is it right do something like this when i came to them only to fill more my crown? Wouldn't have been more logic to take out what we established in the beginning, and try to keep my donor safe? What was the reason to make such a risky choice if you see that my donor already looked in that way? 

Edited November 24, 2019 by dust78

[jonnyalex]

1 hour ago, dust78 said:

It can be that they change something since then but what is inexplicable and unacceptable is that they persisted in depleting my donor in that way. Either with long hair it  seem depleted and empty- Now i ask, is it right do something like this when i came to them only to fill more my crown? Wouldn't have been more logic to take out what we established in the beginning, and try to keep my donor safe? What was the reason to make such a risky choice if you see that my donor already looked in that way? 

I agree with what you say and I have been clear that I do not think they should be recommended here. 

[Sean]

Keep in mind, the scarring for debs case may be similar to dusts.   The difference is in the picture contrast and illusion.  That is there is more bright light making less contrast between the hair, the scars and the non-scarred tissue.  The only way to know is if deb takes photo in similar light as yours.  This is how folks may think donor scarring may be entirely different due to picture contrast, but it may be similar in actuality.

[dust78]

52 minutes ago, Sean said:

Keep in mind, the scarring for debs case may be similar to dusts.   The difference is in the picture contrast and illusion.  That is there is more bright light making less contrast between the hair, the scars and the non-scarred tissue.  The only way to know is if deb takes photo in similar light as yours.  This is how folks may think donor scarring may be entirely different due to picture contrast, but it may be similar in actuality.

It can be but you can see also that this guy has much more hair then me after 5000 grafts and well distributed, so he has probably a donor with a very good capacity. Instead on me you can see that i dont have so much hair as him after 4000 grafts, and not so well distributed, there are spot with more hair and other with less. I think not only it was impossibile to extract 4000 but also the extraccion had to be done very carefully to don’t accentuate this lack of homogeinity!

[duchaine]

On 11/21/2019 at 3:48 AM, Abi28 said:

@Melvin-Moderator I am not trying to make him feel anxious, I am just being honest, this guy had a total of 8000 grafts done. He wanted to fix the crown, they told him he needs 2000-2500 graft via email, he showed up and the doctor pressured him into doing 4000 grafts. The 4000 grafts were split between 2000 at the front and 2000 at the back, the patient was hesitant, he was vulnerable, they agreed on 3000, the assistant came back to him offered him a discount to do 4000 grafts instead so he agreed. This is not okay by any means, they told him his donor will look better in 2-3 months post op, it hasn't and now they are telling him to wait 7-8 months. How many patients have done 8000 grafts? I haven't seen anyone with that kinda hair loss get an extra 4000 grafts, no doctor in their mind would tell him you need 4000 grafts after seeing his photos. I give 2 shits about ASMED but this is crazy to me..

From what I see on this board, ASMED is working really bad in last years.

They told he needed 2000/2500 graft and the patient accepted.
Now, if Koray thought he needed for 4000, he had 2 options:

a) refuse to transplant less than 4000 

OR

b) give the more graft for free.



The "discount" approach  in very unethical. That is a medical operation, not a supermarket.

[duchaine]

@dust78 long story short, the first HT should be done with FUT technique. 
I'm going to have my first HT in January and opted for FUE. I know I did a mistake but didn't felt comfortable to travel from Italy to vancour for a FUT.

[dust78]

19 hours ago, duchaine said:

@dust78 long story short, the first HT should be done with FUT technique. 
I'm going to have my first HT in January and opted for FUE. I know I did a mistake but didn't felt comfortable to travel from Italy to vancour for a FUT.

Well you are still in time to change idea. It depends also on how many grafts you need, if it's a little number fue is better, but if you need a lot and maybe in the future you think that you will have to intervene again i advice you to do a FUT!

[duchaine]

1 hour ago, dust78 said:

Well you are still in time to change idea. It depends also on how many grafts you need, if it's a little number fue is better, but if you need a lot and maybe in the future you think that you will have to intervene again i advice you to do a FUT!

 all the doc said 2500, except Pekiner that suggest something between 2500/3000. Anyway, at the moment, I will push for 2000, because I like a Norwood 2, Harvey specter hairline.
Do you consider that a big number?
I can't change idea because I'll lose my money lol
 

[dust78]

Hello to everybody im posting pictures at 4 months. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Definitely improving, I think by 12 months it’ll be way better. 

[dust78]

Sorry but i don't agree with you is looking better only because the hair are at 4cm and can cover more the emply areas, if i cut just 1 cm it would be much worst.

 And in 6 months a donor should return normal. But i will wait the 6 months and will see the result.

 

[ITA]

I agree withDust78, if he decided to do a FUE, it is assumed that he wanted to keep his hair short otherwise I think he would have opted for a FUT, which in my humble opinion this latter procedure has a better success rate, with  more chance of engaging UF, provided it is done by top surgeons such as H&W or a few others.  If he decided to go to a clinic (even a bit expensive) in my opinion he should not have ended up this way and had the possibility of keeping his hair as he wanted and not necessarily long.  Here in my opinion the clinic made a big mistake, it should at least compensate the patient, it is not a question of failed regrowth in the recipient (which no one can foresee), but of actual hover haversting.