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azazelgs

I want to remove my smp done by Beauty Medical,Italy.

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Hello , 

i haven’t been here for a long time ,maybe many new members don’t know me.

long story short; I have had my first smp session in 2013 done by Beauty Medical , Italy. At that time i wanted more defined and darker color hairline. Jumping to 2016, my fading out process hasn’t been very well and therefore I started going back to Italy for having “negative pigment” sessions, which I remember done 3-4 times.

Now, I admit that my procedure does not look bad or detectable but it clearly does not meet up with the expectation of “completely fading out in 2-3 years”. When I asked about this to the clinic, they always said that dissapearing differs from person to person and it depends on immune system. Also on my research , I have only found only one person that had this procedure dissapeared completely , who is Beauty Medical’s employee.

I am not here to blame anyone or any clinic. However ,after 7 years from my initial treatment , I still have a tricopigmentation on my head which was not my plan when I started this. I am looking for a solution right now. From the clinic, they told me that the laser is the quickest way to have it removed. However , I am still looking for other solutions besides laser.

So I am looking for some answers from the forum. Any suggestion from the clinics that uses Beauty Medical’s products and techinque and also some people that have done trichopigmentation. Also, anyone can suggest me a laser clinic in the Europe zone, or any other methods/producs that speed up the fading out process are highly appreciated.

note: All my research about laser tattoo removal says that darker color removes better. Since my trico is not that dark, and differs from regular tattoo, I don t know how laser reacts to the pigments. I really appreciate any information about this.

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Can you post pictures?


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

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I really dont want to post pictures right now because of my anonymity issues.

All the community , please give your opinions and advices about my issue. I know Shapiro Clinic and some others use this technique. Also I know there are some smp clinica that uses Milena’s inks and needles only. I want to learn which laser suits best and also any other methods besides laser that can gradually fade the pigments out.

best

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Addingly , what I am curious about is; If someone undergoes on a smp clinic that claims permanent ink, laser should be the one and only option. However, I have done my smp with Milena Lardi , who is one of the most reputable ,most approved with her technique and claims that inks absolve in the body gradually. So , first I was skeptical about "lasers for tattoo removal" will see the ink. Also , if this procedure claims it's %100 percent irreversibly , where are those people? And what should be done to speed up the fading process besides laser? 

I really love to hear the opinions , expert thoughts , comments about my issue. Please don't make this thread dead since I am a bit desperate and undecided about this.

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Ok since no one is commenting, I am giving the updates to my laser treatment research. 
On other threads, I have found the user bustamove had done laser treatment to his smp and he recommended beauty care nederland. I have contacted with them, tell them about my situation and sent them the chemical composition of the pigments that Milena Lardi, Beauty clinic uses. Today I recieved a phone call from the laser clinic that they wont be doing a laser session to me because the chemical composition contains titanium oxide and iron oxide which they say it is poisinous to work with.

This is becoming a scary situation for me right now. First , I have decided to go for Beauty Medical because of the treatments reversibility , which didn’t occured. Then now I am finding out that the pigments contain poison and dangerous.

I have talked with Beauty Medical about this and they say that it contains very minimal amount of titanium which body will make it dissolve over time and definately not poisinous. However, laser clinic (beauty care netherlands) insistently says that they won t be doing the treatment because of this.

Now I am attaching my pictures in order to make the situation clearer and I really, really need to hear some opinions and explanations.

Note: You can see the laser test patch done at my frontal.

E79C3AFA-0CCD-4980-B331-B08C56E893C9.jpeg

7EE126BD-295E-4679-9BB7-1D25D5D81ECF.jpeg

 

C838C6C8-C2B2-46DE-9D33-B9EBE652EEDD.jpeg

Edited by azazelgs

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Hello Azazelgs,

I'm here to fully answer your questions once again. This way, all other interested users will have the opportunity to be informed about this issue too.

As you write, you asked us for a particularly dark tricopigmentation. To achieve this, you have undergone numerous sessions, more than it is normally necessary, and you have achieved the desired result. After a while, for the reasons that you explained, you changed your mind and wanted the tricopigmentation to disappear quickly. We have shown you all the possible ways to accelerate the natural process of pigment reabsorption (sun exposure, horsehair glove, chemical peeling etc.) and we have proposed a "in negative" treatment. For those who do not know, the in negative treatment consists in the realisation of point deposits of a skin colour pigment above the dark pigment. It is a procedure that we usually carry out on those who turn to us to correct a tricopigmentation poorly performed elsewhere. Thanks to the in negative sessions, your tricopigmentation has become much lighter and, just as you write, the result has become much less perceptible.

Now, at this point, both you and we have done everything we could to help you achieve what you wanted. To make sure that what's left of your tricopigmentation ends up disappearing, you have only two options: to wait for the reabsorption process to complete itself or to undergo laser sessions. 

With regard to the spontaneous reabsorption process, as we have repeatedly pointed out to you, the duration of this phase varies from person to person, depending on the characteristics of the immune system and on some factors such as the number of sessions carried out. In your case, since you required a dark treatment, several sessions were carried out and, consequently, the reabsorption time is longer. In any case, the pigment is made specifically to disappear over time. As Hairthere explained in an answer to an old post from you, the pigment filtration process only allows the selection of particles that are smaller than 15 macrons. Since the macrophages of the immune system, i.e. the cells responsible for the elimination of foreign bodies, are larger than 15 macrons, then they are able to phagocyte and thus eliminate the pigment particles. This is why we talk about temporary and re-absorbable tricopigmentation.

With regard to the laser, we don't know the Dutch company you're talking to, but we can assure you that the answers they've given you are absolutely incorrect. They are probably used to dealing with normal tattoo pigments and do not know the specific characteristics of the tricopigmentation pigment. Our pigment contains titanium dioxide, as you know, since we have provided you with all the certifications in this regard as soon as you have requested them. However, the titanium dioxide contained in the tricopigmentation pigment is filtered so that it is present in minimal amounts and, according to the phagocytosis process described above, can be eliminated by the immune system. In addition, the various particles of the pigment undergo an encapsulation process, which means that they get encapsulated in a gel membrane that shields them from direct contact with the skin tissue. The same applies to iron oxide. It cannot therefore be said that they are "poisonous" or "dangerous" components, to quote the words you used. A laser treatment performed by professionals allows the removal of tricopigmentation without any problem. In fact, in the case of temporary tricopigmentation, precisely because it is already temporary of its own, the laser acts even more easily. 

To conclude, if the issue is really so stringent for you, we recommend the laser, reiterating that it is an effective and safe choice if made by professionals. Otherwise, you just have to be a little more patient and wait for the natural reabsorption process to be completed. We will be happy to answer any further questions you may have.

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7 years later and you still have the temporary pigment?  Is the skin suppose to Completely  clear of pigment?   If you completely razor shave, do you see the pigment stand out more?

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On 11/6/2019 at 5:58 AM, MilenaLardi said:

Hello Azazelgs,

I'm here to fully answer your questions once again. This way, all other interested users will have the opportunity to be informed about this issue too.

As you write, you asked us for a particularly dark tricopigmentation. To achieve this, you have undergone numerous sessions, more than it is normally necessary, and you have achieved the desired result. After a while, for the reasons that you explained, you changed your mind and wanted the tricopigmentation to disappear quickly. We have shown you all the possible ways to accelerate the natural process of pigment reabsorption (sun exposure, horsehair glove, chemical peeling etc.) and we have proposed a "in negative" treatment. For those who do not know, the in negative treatment consists in the realisation of point deposits of a skin colour pigment above the dark pigment. It is a procedure that we usually carry out on those who turn to us to correct a tricopigmentation poorly performed elsewhere. Thanks to the in negative sessions, your tricopigmentation has become much lighter and, just as you write, the result has become much less perceptible.

Now, at this point, both you and we have done everything we could to help you achieve what you wanted. To make sure that what's left of your tricopigmentation ends up disappearing, you have only two options: to wait for the reabsorption process to complete itself or to undergo laser sessions. 

With regard to the spontaneous reabsorption process, as we have repeatedly pointed out to you, the duration of this phase varies from person to person, depending on the characteristics of the immune system and on some factors such as the number of sessions carried out. In your case, since you required a dark treatment, several sessions were carried out and, consequently, the reabsorption time is longer. In any case, the pigment is made specifically to disappear over time. As Hairthere explained in an answer to an old post from you, the pigment filtration process only allows the selection of particles that are smaller than 15 macrons. Since the macrophages of the immune system, i.e. the cells responsible for the elimination of foreign bodies, are larger than 15 macrons, then they are able to phagocyte and thus eliminate the pigment particles. This is why we talk about temporary and re-absorbable tricopigmentation.

With regard to the laser, we don't know the Dutch company you're talking to, but we can assure you that the answers they've given you are absolutely incorrect. They are probably used to dealing with normal tattoo pigments and do not know the specific characteristics of the tricopigmentation pigment. Our pigment contains titanium dioxide, as you know, since we have provided you with all the certifications in this regard as soon as you have requested them. However, the titanium dioxide contained in the tricopigmentation pigment is filtered so that it is present in minimal amounts and, according to the phagocytosis process described above, can be eliminated by the immune system. In addition, the various particles of the pigment undergo an encapsulation process, which means that they get encapsulated in a gel membrane that shields them from direct contact with the skin tissue. The same applies to iron oxide. It cannot therefore be said that they are "poisonous" or "dangerous" components, to quote the words you used. A laser treatment performed by professionals allows the removal of tricopigmentation without any problem. In fact, in the case of temporary tricopigmentation, precisely because it is already temporary of its own, the laser acts even more easily. 

To conclude, if the issue is really so stringent for you, we recommend the laser, reiterating that it is an effective and safe choice if made by professionals. Otherwise, you just have to be a little more patient and wait for the natural reabsorption process to be completed. We will be happy to answer any further questions you may 

Please allow me to give you my opinion regarding temporary SMP.  I have researched your product for the last 2 years and I'm very interested in your services.  Admittedly, I don't  have a background in chemistry and physiology which makes me very ignorant about the SMP procedure.  I don't have any tattoos and I don't understand how the body processes minerals and pigments.  I really wish there was a way for laymen like myself to understand exactly how temporary SMP works.  Thank you.

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Milena,

Thank you for the open and honest answer. Please be sure that I have not used any implies or bad words against your procedure,just quoted what I hear from a laser removal clinic.If they follow this forum, I believe they have a right to explain what they explain to me on the phone.

Addingly, I know we have talked many times about this via e-mail, discussing the reversibility via this thread would be much more informative both for me and anyone considering temporary smp. You have explained the reabsorption in its scientific nature, however in my situation; it did not quite happened the way it should happened. So I will repeat the questions that we have talked, which I am sure you will be informative again. 
 

1-What would be the best way to accelerate reversibility besides laser? I know we have talked about chemical peeling. Please explain further about what type of chemical peeling should be done , what part of the dermis that the smp stand(especially having many sessions like me) , what would be the success of it and what type of acids can be used. I am asking this because based on my research online and discussing about it with dermatologists, removing a tattoo with some peeling is nearly impossible and also very risky for scarring, so please inform further how temporary smp can work with this. 
 

2- After doing the “negative treatment” as you mentioned , the coloring of the pigments have become lighter. Since the laser procedure is more successful on seeing darker colors, would that be a problem for laser to remove it or does this mainly depend on pigments depth on the skin rather than the color? 
 

3- As a person which had applied the temporary smp procedure like me on both sides(dark pigments and light pigments) , does the later procedures(light pigments) stand on top side and the previous ones on deeper ? How does this work in terms of fading out? 
 

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Hello Azazegls,

I agree with you that sharing this kind of information is really important. Here are the answers to your questions:

1. Chemical peeling is definitely an option that allows you to speed up the process of pigment fading. However, for detailed information about this, it would be best to contact someone who is specialized in this field, such as a dermatologist or a plastic surgeon. Of course, they must be experts who know about tricopigmentation, otherwise they will end up giving you incorrect answers like the laser company you mentioned. I can tell you that the tricopigmentation pigment is always placed on the superficial dermis, under the dermoepidermal membrane, at a depth of 0.5mm. Regardless of the number of sessions performed, the depth of inoculation is always the same. As you write, removing a tattoo with chemical peeling is impossible and dangerous, but, again, I must point out that tricopigmentation is not a tattoo. The pigments are different and the depth of ink insertion is also different. 

2. The laser actually works best where it encounters dark particles, but the fact that it acts more or less well is not related to the depth of inoculation. In your case, having you undergone both light and dark pigment sessions, the laser will allow the removal of the dark one, while it may struggle on the light one. However, both pigments are designed to be re-absorbed by the body (as I explained in my previous comment). Therefore, with patience, even if the laser does not read the light pigment, it will still disappear over time. The amount of time needed changes from individual to individual. Sometimes some customers even have to undergo extra sessions because their body engulfs, and then eliminates, the pigment in a very short time. Other times it happens instead that the fading process takes longer.

3. No, the pigment is always inserted at the same depth, 0.5 mm, both for the dark and the light treatment, in each session. What happens when a light pigment is inserted where the dark one is already present is that the first one mixes with the second one, gradually subtracting the colour, until the dark one cannot be spotted anymore. However, this is not an overlap, because the level of inoculation is the same. In terms of fading, the fact that both the light and dark pigments are present does not make any particular difference. Both pigments are made to be reabsorbed and, over time, this is what happens.

 

 

 

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Hello Milena, 

Thank you for your answers. If you allow , I’d like to discuss more on this , especially requiring your comments and thoughts.

After your answers , I have come to a conclusion that laser may not be the direct solution. It will definitely see the dark pigments, but the light ones are probably going to stay. It is uncertain that how will the light pigments gonna look like in terms of estethics which is the most important issue. Also , laser have its own unknown questions like how many sessions it will require ,the healing time between sessions , possible scarring and how pigments will react to laser especially. I’d really like to hear what you think about this, especially for my situation and also for the people who thinks about temporary smp
 

As for the other method that we talked, chemical peeling ; has its own pros and cons. In my opinion , well applied peeling will help the pigments fade without depending on their light or dark color(please correct me if I’m wrong.) The waiting time between laser is minimum 6-8 weeks where chemical peeling can be performed in 21 day cycles, as I was informed. 
 

However, the method “trichopigmentation” as you mentioned repeatedly different, both for the pigment type and depth of the pigment.Also, you are clearly pointing out that this is completely temporary and should not compared with neighter regular tattoo nor any other smp applications. So it is a world of unknown questions both for me , and the dermatologists that I have talked so far. First , it is impossible for me to find any dermatologists or plastic surgeon in my country that is familiar with this technique.Secondly, you uniquely own temporary smp which is accepted by many hair transplant clinics and doctors. So , please understand my concerns about especially with chemical peeling path, eventhough in my opinion would be the safest and non-harmful after your reply(again, correct me if I’m wrong.) I know I am talking and thinking too much about it, I’d like to know what would be the “right” way to go if chemical peeling applied. What would be the right chemicals, acids etc to use and what kind of application should be applied. If you can guide me through this , either yourself or you can give me an info about a doctor , dermatologist that I can talk with which is familiar with your technique, I would highly appreciate it. 

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By the time I am waiting for Milena’s reply, I am posting this picture which I have taken today. The main concern of mine regarding removal of the smp can clearly seen in this picture. Notice that the smp areas are “whiter” than my regular hair right now. Smp being this color concerns me most. I am trying to get to my skin tone , which is obviously darker than the smp. I have scheduled an appointment for a chemical peeling this saturday , which is still a big question for me. How will it work? Does temporary smp will fade out through skin color or will it become more white? 
 

D65378AB-5F91-4BD5-89D3-9A2F20D246F9.jpeg

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On 11/11/2019 at 4:42 PM, azazelgs said:

Hello Milena, 

Thank you for your answers. If you allow , I’d like to discuss more on this , especially requiring your comments and thoughts.

After your answers , I have come to a conclusion that laser may not be the direct solution. It will definitely see the dark pigments, but the light ones are probably going to stay. It is uncertain that how will the light pigments gonna look like in terms of estethics which is the most important issue. Also , laser have its own unknown questions like how many sessions it will require ,the healing time between sessions , possible scarring and how pigments will react to laser especially. I’d really like to hear what you think about this, especially for my situation and also for the people who thinks about temporary smp
 

As for the other method that we talked, chemical peeling ; has its own pros and cons. In my opinion , well applied peeling will help the pigments fade without depending on their light or dark color(please correct me if I’m wrong.) The waiting time between laser is minimum 6-8 weeks where chemical peeling can be performed in 21 day cycles, as I was informed. 
 

However, the method “trichopigmentation” as you mentioned repeatedly different, both for the pigment type and depth of the pigment.Also, you are clearly pointing out that this is completely temporary and should not compared with neighter regular tattoo nor any other smp applications. So it is a world of unknown questions both for me , and the dermatologists that I have talked so far. First , it is impossible for me to find any dermatologists or plastic surgeon in my country that is familiar with this technique.Secondly, you uniquely own temporary smp which is accepted by many hair transplant clinics and doctors. So , please understand my concerns about especially with chemical peeling path, eventhough in my opinion would be the safest and non-harmful after your reply(again, correct me if I’m wrong.) I know I am talking and thinking too much about it, I’d like to know what would be the “right” way to go if chemical peeling applied. What would be the right chemicals, acids etc to use and what kind of application should be applied. If you can guide me through this , either yourself or you can give me an info about a doctor , dermatologist that I can talk with which is familiar with your technique, I would highly appreciate it. 

 

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