Clinic recommended from here. Donor looks overharvested, or shock loss?

[LonelyGraft]

5 hours ago, soontransplanted said:

Hi @Tentpole91

Photos taken today, the surgery was completed 5.5 months ago.

Yesterday, I quickly shaved the back and sides of my head at home, nut not the top, as I prefer this cut my whole life. It's not a professional cut.

Well.. things are not looking the way I want from the donor zone at this point..

Sorry if I missed it but what grade did u shave it to?

[soontransplanted]

1 hour ago, LonelyGraft said:

Sorry if I missed it but what grade did u shave it to?

I buzzed it to a one on sides and back but didn’t do a great job obviously 

[Tentpole91]

Yeah, it definitely doesn’t look awesome when buzzed down that short. How did it feel when you kept it longer? 
 

Btw, awesome to hear about how it is improving your confidence. The recipient area looks great for 5.5 months and will only get better  

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Tentpole91

[gillenator]

On 3/3/2020 at 2:14 PM, Egy said:

@gillenator I would be wrong, at 12 months, the donor area will certainly be improved, but the signs will remain visible, in my first transplant I underwent a Over haversted therefore I unfortunately recognize this anti-aesthetic effect.

You may very well be right Egy...so if it still is very noticeable at 12 months post-op, beard grafts could potentially be added to thicken the area as long as the grafted density is realistic and not over done.

[Melvin- Admin]

I’ll be creating a post and article detailing my own shock loss. Stay tuned!

[Min12]

On 3/6/2020 at 11:25 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

I’ll be creating a post and article detailing my own shock loss. Stay tuned!

I just had a read of your previous thread on eugenix being put up as a IHRP member and someone put up a donor image of a patient with a clearly depleted donor, looking at this patient here it seems     that there is obvious patching even with just over 3k grafts taken (with hair grown out).

Im wondering if this is due to the size of the punch used since Eugenix have told me over WhatsApp and email that they use 0.95mm for scalp and 0.8 only for beard, I’ve read on this and have seen certain clinics say that they would never go above a 0.8 as it causes more trauma and it clearly covers more surface area when it comes to scarring.

Eugenix’s response is that the more tissue around the follicle the better the survival rate which is understandable but I don’t want to risk having patches at the back of my head if I prefer to keep my hair short.

I understand people in India tend to keep their hair longer so a larger punch size won’t be noticeable when the hair is kept quite long, but clinics like HLC and Asmed provide results where the donor look barely touched (even when the patient has a fade) and they are extremely focused on the donor preservation. But Eugenix do produce great results, the donor is my main concern before jumping into surgery.

Could you speak more on this please.

 

[Melvin- Admin]

The picture posted in that thread is this patient, and he went ahead and commented on his own situation. 

I truly believe that scarring is largely a psychological issue, some people just scar worse than others. I have only had .9mm and 1mm size punches, and I regularly wear my hair at a #1. Now, my scars are visible, if you know what to look for, but I know the general public doesn’t notice. 

We our own worst critics. That said, you should never expect to undergo surgery and not see any signs. It’s just not realistic. 
 

 

[LonelyGraft]

2 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

The picture posted in that thread is this patient, and he went ahead and commented on his own situation. 

I truly believe that scarring is largely a psychological issue, some people just scar worse than others. I have only had .9mm and 1mm size punches, and I regularly wear my hair at a #1. Now, my scars are visible, if you know what to look for, but I know the general public doesn’t notice. 

We our own worst critics. That said, you should never expect to undergo surgery and not see any signs. It’s just not realistic. 
 

 

Having “donor halos” are not ideal and doesn’t have to do with scarring, it’s simply due to donor depletion. I have noticed a similar issue myself. I truly believe this is due to larger punch sizes and harvesting too many of the multi hair grafts. A huge reason of getting fue is to be able to wear your hair short. But when you have areas of your donor that look like they are harvested at excess of 50%, it looks unnatural and you can’t wear a buzz cut because when your donor is patchy compared to the rest of your hair it simply doesn’t look natural. In addition, larger punches have the possibility of “collateral damage” by transecting nearby hairs.

 

the above poster is right, clinics like asmed have pristine donors for the most part as they utilize the smallest punches they can (and I assume their punches have a small wall diameter as well).

[Min12]

1 hour ago, LonelyGraft said:

Having “donor halos” are not ideal and doesn’t have to do with scarring, it’s simply due to donor depletion. I have noticed a similar issue myself. I truly believe this is due to larger punch sizes and harvesting too many of the multi hair grafts. A huge reason of getting fue is to be able to wear your hair short. But when you have areas of your donor that look like they are harvested at excess of 50%, it looks unnatural and you can’t wear a buzz cut because when your donor is patchy compared to the rest of your hair it simply doesn’t look natural. In addition, larger punches have the possibility of “collateral damage” by transecting nearby hairs.

 

the above poster is right, clinics like asmed have pristine donors for the most part as they utilize the smallest punches they can (and I assume their punches have a small wall diameter as well).

There you go. A huge reason for FUE is that your able to keep your hair quite short. Why is it that some clinics such as Asmed, HLC and Pekiner have great donors after thousands of grafts being extracted?  Yes there are scars but they are barely visible and well hidden, they don’t wave a magic wand or anything I believe it’s just up to the punch size and how the grafts are extracted.

Check the link: https://www.dermhairclinic.com/best-punch-size-fue-hair-restoration/

there have also been a few studies.

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Min12

[Melvin- Admin]

7 hours ago, LonelyGraft said:

Having “donor halos” are not ideal and doesn’t have to do with scarring, it’s simply due to donor depletion. I have noticed a similar issue myself. I truly believe this is due to larger punch sizes and harvesting too many of the multi hair grafts. A huge reason of getting fue is to be able to wear your hair short. But when you have areas of your donor that look like they are harvested at excess of 50%, it looks unnatural and you can’t wear a buzz cut because when your donor is patchy compared to the rest of your hair it simply doesn’t look natural. In addition, larger punches have the possibility of “collateral damage” by transecting nearby hairs.

 

the above poster is right, clinics like asmed have pristine donors for the most part as they utilize the smallest punches they can (and I assume their punches have a small wall diameter as well).

Every clinic has patients with bad scarring, just like clinics have patients with poor growth. There is another patient on here who also complained about his donor and he went to one of the clinics you mentioned. Yes, you should be able to wear your hair short, but that doesn't mean that you won't notice anything. I wear my hair short, sure I can see some signs of surgery, but that's because I know what to look for. Either way, it's all about personal perspective. I think if you're expecting to have no visible signs, surgery isn't for you. 

[Melvin- Admin]

6 hours ago, Min12 said:

There you go. A huge reason for FUE is that your able to keep your hair quite short. Why is it that some clinics such as Asmed, HLC and Pekiner have great donors after thousands of grafts being extracted?  Yes there are scars but they are barely visible and well hidden, they don’t wave a magic wand or anything I believe it’s just up to the punch size and how the grafts are extracted.

Check the link: https://www.dermhairclinic.com/best-punch-size-fue-hair-restoration/

there have also been a few studies.

 

I understand wanting to maintain a short haircut, what i'm saying is that everyone scars differently- this is a fact. How short you can wear your hair depends on a combination of things, yes the size of the punch matters, your skin tone also matters, and how you scar physiologically matters. Take a look at my thread, I posted it for a reason, because I want to be open and transparent, if you want to have a surgery and see no signs of surgery, DON'T GET SURGERY. I'm not trying to sell you on anything, i'm just being honest.

[LonelyGraft]

7 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Every clinic has patients with bad scarring, just like clinics have patients with poor growth. There is another patient on here who also complained about his donor and he went to one of the clinics you mentioned. Yes, you should be able to wear your hair short, but that doesn't mean that you won't notice anything. I wear my hair short, sure I can see some signs of surgery, but that's because I know what to look for. Either way, it's all about personal perspective. I think if you're expecting to have no visible signs, surgery isn't for you. 

Melvin, again, this isn’t about scarring. It’s about improper extraction patterns and over harvesting. We’re ( myself and @Min12) are talking about this

[Min12]

There’s having scars which we all know comes with the territory of having an FUE which I mentioned in my previous comment and then there having a patchy moth eaten looking donor, 2 huge different things.

Yes I understand different characteristics affect how the donor will look such as skin and hair colour and the contrast as I’ve been looking into this stuff for a while.

My main point is that I believe that using a larger punch does obviously cover more surface area leading to a larger scar and if it’s done in the thousands then you get what I mean. No matter what the specific Dr tries to say regarding scarring the punch size is vital, not many people mention this and just go with the flow and then they have the extra headache of even having to do SMP. Imagine not being able to get short back and sides or even a fade because you have really patchy donor.

Melving you say that you can see signs of surgery only if you look for it and that’s how it’s meant to be, if it’s moth eaten then it sticks out like a sore thumb .

I’ve watched Joe Tillman interview Dr Sethi, when Sethi brought up that he believes that you can extract 50% of the donor without anyone noticing anything Joe immediately stops him telling him he doesn’t believe it’s true, Dr Sethi then just goes along with Joe. So which one is it?? 

Just to note I’ve seen 1 or 2 donor results from this forum at Eugenix and they seem ok when kept short as the contrast between skin and hair is minor.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Min12

[soontransplanted]

On 3/18/2020 at 3:30 AM, Min12 said:

I just had a read of your previous thread on eugenix being put up as a IHRP member and someone put up a donor image of a patient with a clearly depleted donor, looking at this patient here it seems     that there is obvious patching even with just over 3k grafts taken (with hair grown out).

Im wondering if this is due to the size of the punch used since Eugenix have told me over WhatsApp and email that they use 0.95mm for scalp and 0.8 only for beard, I’ve read on this and have seen certain clinics say that they would never go above a 0.8 as it causes more trauma and it clearly covers more surface area when it comes to scarring.

Eugenix’s response is that the more tissue around the follicle the better the survival rate which is understandable but I don’t want to risk having patches at the back of my head if I prefer to keep my hair short.

I understand people in India tend to keep their hair longer so a larger punch size won’t be noticeable when the hair is kept quite long, but clinics like HLC and Asmed provide results where the donor look barely touched (even when the patient has a fade) and they are extremely focused on the donor preservation. But Eugenix do produce great results, the donor is my main concern before jumping into surgery.

Could you speak more on this please.

 

I just can’t bear the thought of never having the back of my head back to normal. I never want to have a haircut longer than a fade,  1/2 buzz cut on back and sides, this is the hair style I love and suits me and is why I got FUE over FUT. Even with my hair longer it looks sparse but I will never have a haircut like this anyway.  
 

 

 

 

Edited March 21, 2020 by soontransplanted

[ITA]

On 3/3/2020 at 5:00 PM, Egy said:

I'm sorry to tell you @soontransplanted at 5 and a half months, the shock loss should have come back, but it did not happen, unfortunately this is over haversted, the situation will improve a little, but the signs will remain evident.  This is only my opinion.

@soontransplanted This I wrote to you on March 3, and unfortunately I was not wrong, Those voids will never go away.

Edited March 21, 2020 by Egy

[soontransplanted]

I shaved it real quick now to a 1 

[Melvin- Admin]

I think it’s getting better, definitely not where you’d hope for, but there’s definite improvement. If I’m being honest smp would definitely camouflage that and it wouldn’t be visible. 

[soontransplanted]

Looks good from the sides actually, I’m happy with that. the back though is more my concern. Personally think it looks better shaved than a bit longer though. Maybe SMP will really help disguise the ‘halo’ as  someone mentioned it. 

[Melvin- Admin]

If I’m being honest, its made huge improvements, I just looked at page 1 and it’s way better. The temple points look great, frames your face well mate. 

We’re often our worst critics. Now, I’m not downplaying your concerns, but most people wouldn’t even notice, unless they’re really examining your scalp. Smp would definitely camouflage it. That I know for sure.

[hairlossPA]

did I miss what clinic this was? Euginix? 

[soontransplanted]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

If I’m being honest, its made huge improvements, I just looked at page 1 and it’s way better. The temple points look great, frames your face well mate. 

We’re often our worst critics. Now, I’m not downplaying your concerns, but most people wouldn’t even notice, unless they’re really examining your scalp. Smp would definitely camouflage it. That I know for sure.

It’s for sure improved the shock loss a few months ago was scary but I got through the worst of it luckily. if SMP can restore a natural look to the back then I’ll be v happy 

[BjornBorg]

I was really, really worried for you at page one. But now you are looking close to normal. Not many will look at you weird. And more improvement to come. What a relief.

Plus it looks like your receiving area is coming along nicely. 

[soontransplanted]

17 minutes ago, BjornBorg said:

I was really, really worried for you at page one. But now you are looking close to normal. Not many will look at you weird. And more improvement to come. What a relief.

Plus it looks like your receiving area is coming along nicely. 

thanks man!

What actually happens to the transplanted hairs from month 6 onwards? Because from what I can see, all the hairs have sprouted out the follicles on the hairline 😂 I just don't get what further changes I can expect?

Do the hairs change in some way? Or are  there still some follicles that are dormant? 

[BjornBorg]

4 minutes ago, soontransplanted said:

thanks man!

What actually happens to the transplanted hairs from month 6 onwards? Because from what I can see, all the hairs have sprouted out the follicles on the hairline 😂 I just don't get what further changes I can expect?

Do the hairs change in some way? Or are  there still some follicles that are dormant? 

I'm a layman but a longtime student of the game. From what I gathered new growth can absolutely occur after 6 months although in most cases the majority of the sprouting will be done by that time.

The big thing after this is maturation of the hairs which will make them appear fuller and blend in with the old hair. You have 6 more months until a result, sometimes more. But the hard part is over for you!

[gillenator]

The maturation process not only involves the regrowth of the grafts but also the maturation and full development of the degree of hair shaft diameter, commonly called hair caliber.