Merck Makers of Propecia Caught Lying For The Second Time

[Melvin- Admin]

I'm sure most of you heard by now that Merck may have been caught redacting their initial label, but did you guys know that a federal judge had caught them lying about their patent trials. I don't know guys, I'm starting to think that Merck has known that Propecia can cause persistent side effects since the beginning. Thoughts??

 

Merck Makers of Propecia Caught Lying For The Second Time

[LonelyGraft]

This is pretty disheartening to hear. However, isn’t the fda involved in all of these clinical trials as well? Including the follow up trials and any reports of patients once the drug is released?

[Melvin- Admin]

I think they’re involved, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be lied too. It’s hard to believe Merck was unaware of PFS. If they got caught lying to a federal judge, their credibility is lost.

[Melvin- Admin]

There is so much information surfacing right now. I think i'm definitely going to make a video about this. 

[Panamera13]

When i was looking up FIN side effect and then a poll was created, it clearly showed it's NOT 2 percent who have side effects. It's more like 50%.

I personally had side effect and they're gone after I stopped. I just use Rogaine in morning/Lipogaine Shampoo/Azelaic Acid at night and Laser cap every other day. If my hair stays, great. If not, still ok, FIN for me was never worth it.

Also, when you search other forums, there are grown healthy men crying about PFS...that's why I stopped taking it.

Edited September 17, 2019 by Panamera13

[Mycroft]

13 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I think they’re involved, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be lied too. It’s hard to believe Merck was unaware of PFS. If they got caught lying to a federal judge, their credibility is lost.

The FDA is not exactly a paragon of integrity as is. The level of corruption in that organization boggles the mind and I don't trust them much more than the pharmaceutical industry ever since I discovered how much bullshit they knowingly allow on food labels.

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, Mycroft said:

The FDA is not exactly a paragon of integrity as is. The level of corruption in that organization boggles the mind and I don't trust them much more than the pharmaceutical industry ever since I discovered how much bullshit they knowingly allow on food labels.

This is very true. This news is very unsettling. 

[CosmoKramer]

It’s amusing to me that when I have mentioned on this forum and elsewhere that Pharmaceutical companies lie and cherry pick data from their sponsord “studies” and trials and bribe...err lobby gov employees in the FDA to approve dangerous drugs...I get the resoponse of ‘But The almighty US FDA has strict guidelines and protocols’....yeah, okay.

[CosmoKramer]

The amount of trolls (marketing teams?) on hair loss forums that I’ve seen continually argue over the years that the side effects only affect such a very small percentage and anyone believing otherwise is loopy and it’s the “placebo effect” and that it’s all just in their dumb head. Just plain Bullshit!

[gillenator]

43 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

This is very true. This news is very unsettling. 

 

I could not agree more and on a side note, I have always been highly suspicious of the low rate of reported sexual side-effects.

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, CosmoKramer said:

The amount of trolls (marketing teams?) on hair loss forums that I’ve seen continually argue over the years that the side effects only affect such a very small percentage and anyone believing otherwise is loopy and it’s the “placebo effect” and that it’s all just in their dumb head. Just plain Bullshit!

Yea there are definitely a fair amount of guys like that. I try and stay objective, even though I had a terrible experience with Fin. I can appreciate some guys don't get side effects, but I'm really shocked by the fact that Merck may have known about persistent side effects and withheld that from the public.  If you take fin and you know that you may have permanent damage if you're one of the unlucky few, but still decide to do it that's fine. I wonder how many guys with PFS would've taken fin had they known about permanent side effects. 

[Sean]

Imagine the unknowns, it’s quite scary really.  You have folks say it’s completely safe.  Or may appear to say it has caused sides and folks should be careful with it and then say its worked for a lot of people i dont know so it could be good and work for you I dont know Etc etc etc.  

at the end of the day, a proper blood panel should be taken if your on it and you should keep a list of sides that you may feel. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Apparently Reuters has requested the judge release the secret propecia documents. This was just a few days ago.

[gillenator]

The more information we have the better, as long as it is credible.

[Lennney]

I wonder if there should be a periodic assessment (audit) of the initial trials that medications have. Why is there not a double blind study every 10-15 years for the top 100 most prescribed medications, with blood panels (and saved vials for future testing as more tests and things to screen for become available - like they do for doping cyclists and Olympians. Who the fuck cares about gold medals when people are permanently damaging themselves and feel forced into suicide (not just men with fin, breast implants and birth control pills and implants)).

I feel like there should be at least a follow on investigation after 5 years to address claimed side effects and every 15 years if the medication hits a certain threshold. All by independent testers who are not named - at all. Big pharma in the USA is an actual mafia. The more separation we get from them the better. 

Ironically, I don't know how any of us would feel if a new medication came out and claimed less sides. 

[Mycroft]

4 hours ago, Lennney said:

I wonder if there should be a periodic assessment (audit) of the initial trials that medications have. Why is there not a double blind study every 10-15 years for the top 100 most prescribed medications, with blood panels (and saved vials for future testing as more tests and things to screen for become available - like they do for doping cyclists and Olympians. Who the fuck cares about gold medals when people are permanently damaging themselves and feel forced into suicide (not just men with fin, breast implants and birth control pills and implants)).

I feel like there should be at least a follow on investigation after 5 years to address claimed side effects and every 15 years if the medication hits a certain threshold. All by independent testers who are not named - at all. Big pharma in the USA is an actual mafia. The more separation we get from them the better. 

Ironically, I don't know how any of us would feel if a new medication came out and claimed less sides. 

We'd essentially be in a situation where long term data would be nonexistent. Right now hair loss communities on the internet will lose their minds over possible side effects of Finasteride but turn around and recommend use of RU58841 because there are few reports of side effects. Of course, there's not much in the way of real data at all, so it's nothing more than a glorified ostrich effect. 

I think that regardless of the side effects of Finasteride the hair loss community's fearmongering surrounding the drug is completely out of control. 

The idea of independent testing is great. The issue we have is that there's never any financial backing for that sort of thing, and there's no prestige involved for the researchers working on a project like that, so nobody is actually interested in doing it. Sad, but true.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Mycroft

[yesplease]

On 9/17/2019 at 11:29 AM, Panamera13 said:

When i was looking up FIN side effect and then a poll was created, it clearly showed it's NOT 2 percent who have side effects. It's more like 50%.

I personally had side effect and they're gone after I stopped. I just use Rogaine in morning/Lipogaine Shampoo/Azelaic Acid at night and Laser cap every other day. If my hair stays, great. If not, still ok, FIN for me was never worth it.

Also, when you search other forums, there are grown healthy men crying about PFS...that's why I stopped taking it.

Agreed. I also have been saying on these forums that the incidence of all fin sides was likely understated by the existing data. It may still be a minority of patients, but it’s almost certainly more than the extremely marginal percentage that the studies and fin proponents quote.

[Melvin- Admin]

I think the >1% that Merck lists is vastly understated. I believe it's probably more like 10% which doesn't sound like a lot, but given that Propecia is one of the most filled prescriptions in the US that's thousands of users.

[Lennney]

38 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I think the >1% that Merck lists is vastly understated. I believe it's probably more like 10% which doesn't sound like a lot, but given that Propecia is one of the most filled prescriptions in the US that's thousands of users.

I know other pills (like stroke/ blood) got questions after they only tested their stuff on a homogeneous group of white dudes.

I wouldn't be surprised if maybe that 10% was to "some" side effects, but not too drastic. I also wouldn't be surprised if certain groups experienced more side effects, or were more prone to them.

To counter the point of no one is interested in that, there is legislation for this very reason. It's even more likely to pass today, now that opium manufacturers are getting publicly criticised and sued for their false claims about addiction risk. If there is low risk for addiction, yet 5 years later there is a spike in reports, it would be tested again for that claim and others.

Accounting has auditors, but they are "purchased" by the company. There is legislation that requires it, and even stronger now in last 20 years. I still don't like how much "honor" they put on the accountants to do right thing. Companies should not know who is auditing them. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/apr/30/fda-clinical-trials-gender-gap-epa-nih-institute-of-medicine-cardiovascular-disease

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/clinical-trials-have-far-too-little-racial-and-ethnic-diversity/

[gillenator]

On ‎9‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 10:23 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

I think the >1% that Merck lists is vastly understated. I believe it's probably more like 10% which doesn't sound like a lot, but given that Propecia is one of the most filled prescriptions in the US that's thousands of users.

 

I think it's much higher than 10%

[bensk]

On 9/17/2019 at 6:19 PM, Mycroft said:

The FDA is not exactly a paragon of integrity as is. The level of corruption in that organization boggles the mind and I don't trust them much more than the pharmaceutical industry ever since I discovered how much bullshit they knowingly allow on food labels.

Amen to that

[gillenator]

It will be interesting to see how all of this washes out!

[bensk]

Finasteride almost killed me !

 

Took it for six months, suffered from the worst mental side effects ever ( derealisation and depersonalisation are no joke ) as well as full body twitches, lethargy and it lasted for more than 2 years after stopping it. 

It is pure poison and when you are well versed on endocrinology you know for a fact, that through its mecanism of action, 100% of male taking it will have side effects. Some will be aware of them earlier as they don’t come full force at once and others will start to feel them 10-15+ years later.

 

Its quite simple really, what makes a man manly is his hormonal balance. Finasteride inhibits 5-alpha reductase and DHT which is 10 times more potent than testostérone ( through inhibiting 5 AR it also inhibits allopregnanolone which is an essential hormone in the brain; Its main role is to regulate anxiety ) and increases female hormones (oestradiol, ostrogene, prolactine etc) it basically turns you slowly into a woman and thats why you get you hairs back. Thats why men who want to become transgenders have to take finasteride in their pre op protocol as well as long after having surgery... 

Most doctors who prescribe it are either clueless or want to maximise the results of their transplants knowing that the side effects could be lethal ( A lot of guys have commited suicide ) and those last doctors should trialed along with Merck.

 

its time that Merck recognises that finasteride is a serial killer.

Edited September 24, 2019 by bensk

[bensk]

1 hour ago, gillenator said:

 

I think it's much higher than 10%

Definitely !

[BaldingBogger]

This drug is a time bomb in my opinion .    Anything that alters your endocrine hormonal system, don't F*ck with it

Edited September 24, 2019 by BaldingBogger