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dredd77

Kaan Pekiner 2506+1000grafts almost 2 years after- my result

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11 minutes ago, dredd77 said:

I was not diagnosed DUPA by Kaan. Even after second transplant he never told me I have DUPA and that taking finasteride is necessity.

Did you get a biopsy who told you that you did not have DUPA? Another surgeon?


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

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I think you should definitely speak to a physician to rule out DUPA before getting another surgery from any other surgeon. 


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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On 9/18/2019 at 9:20 AM, dredd77 said:

If I have DUPA, why Kaan never told me that? When I came first time to the op 2 years ago he said my donor was very good. Almost a year ago during the second op he also did not tell me anything about DUPA. Ne also never told me this when I asked in the messages about my results.

And now a man, who has never seen me makes such a diagnosis. Thats bullshit.

I feel for you dredd77. 
And I agree that the dr should have told you prior that you have dupa. 
Can the rep provide any proof that the doctor informed the patient with dupa and explained all the risks involved with it? 

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Thanks for the support.

I doubt that we will hear anything from the rep. They just deleted my report on the other forum, as it is much easier.

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I feel for you too Dredd because your case (according to the clinic) doesn't make much sense to me.

At first the clinic say the reason the transplant failed was due to you not taking the medications, and there is no mention of DUPA; 

On 8/24/2019 at 8:53 AM, Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic said:

The important question is then "why". Dr. Pekiner doesn't think of any skin condition or illness that made the transplanted grafts not grow well. He thinks the patient failed to follow his advices and instructions. 

While I believe the clinic behaved ethically by offering you a free repair, it makes absolutely no sense to do so if the patient has DUPA (and furthermore does not want to take medications) as such an approach would only make things worse.

On 8/25/2019 at 10:39 AM, Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic said:

Dredd, in your case medicines were mandatory because your androgenetic alopecia was miniaturizing also the donor area (it is a condition called DUPA and is more common than people think) and dr. Pekiner told you that many times. 

Indeed this patient was denied surgery by the same clinic for that very reason; https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/55281-thank-you-kaan-pekiner-doctor/?tab=comments#comment-522260

As you have always claimed that you were never told about your DUPA, (which would be a strange thing to lie about given it would be present throughout all your messages with the clinic, especially following a bad result and free repair) my best guess is that they simply failed to diagnose it.

While I don't think the clinic was malicious with your case (in fact I think quite the opposite given the free repair), if my understanding is correct then I can't say I'm impressed with how you have been treated, and it speaks little of the other forum that they would simply delete a bad result. 

If I were you I'd follow Melvin's advice and try and get a proper DUPA diagnosis and see what your options are

Edited by transplantedphil

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I still do not understand these points.

1.The representative of the clinic tells that dr.Kaan told me about DUPA many times. Where are the proofs? In out conversation in WhatsApp dr.Kaan told many times that he just does not know what is going on, he believes in medication. And he asked just to wait for more months to come.

2.When I first came to the clinic 2 years ago on the first op, we had about 5 minutes chat before the start. I was just told "Your donor is very good, everything would be fine". After the transplant we spoke about the recommendations, and it was saw palmetto and minoxidil. We spoke about Proscar, I said that I would never try it. Recommendations, not the mandatory things as the rep tells now.

When I came to the second op, dr.Kaan admitted that result of the first op was very bad, but he did not know the reason. He said that sometimes it could depend on other things and I understand that.

3.Finally when I got final result after the second op, I wrote to dr.Kaan, he just said that he does not think that there was a failure in the operation and that's it. I published my report on the forum, got a call from the clinic with the words that I "want to destroy the clinic reputation".

How so? Is publishing report with bad result - destroying the clinic reputation? Where in my report any bad or untruthful words about dr. Kaan or the clinic?

I was asked to delete the report immediately, and after I refused, the conversation became unethical.

They deleted the report shortly after, but why? I think my case might be useful.

Anyway the second result of the op was much better than the first, that I can not understand why. Hairs after the first op did not grow almost at all.

Edited by dredd77
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sorry, @dredd77 , the forum from which your report has been removed is a European forum perhaps?

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Sorry to hear about what you are going through, I know how hard this is for you, I feel like sometimes you could go to the best doctor in the world and end up with very bad growth, I have seen a lot of cases on here from patients that went to top clinics that ended up with bad results, sometimes there is no explanation as to what went wrong. The fact that the clinic asked you to comeback and gave you a free procedure shows that they stand by their work, but also thats the least thing that they could have done since you lost precious grafts. Regarding the deleted post, a lot of clinics do this, they don't want to hurt their reputation, one bad post can ruin a clinics image, but that's not your fault since you are only sharing your experience here, what happened sucks and you are not in the wrong here. Looking at the bright side, you are not bald and you have a lot of hair on top, your hair situation is not that bad, your donor seems good, you might be able to get 1000-1500 grafts from your donor, I would consult with a dermatologist to see if you actually have DUPA and perhaps send your photos and consult with other doctors? best of luck.

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4 minutes ago, Abi28 said:

I feel like sometimes you could go to the best doctor in the world and end up with very bad growth, I have seen a lot of cases on here from patients that went to top clinics that ended up with bad results, sometimes there is no explanation as to what went wrong. The fact that the clinic asked you to comeback and gave you a free procedure shows that they stand by their work, but also thats the least thing that they could have done since you lost precious grafts. 

I agree, but the fact that his report is deleted makes me so angry.

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2 hours ago, Abi28 said:

Sorry to hear about what you are going through, I know how hard this is for you, I feel like sometimes you could go to the best doctor in the world and end up with very bad growth, I have seen a lot of cases on here from patients that went to top clinics that ended up with bad results, sometimes there is no explanation as to what went wrong. The fact that the clinic asked you to comeback and gave you a free procedure shows that they stand by their work, but also thats the least thing that they could have done since you lost precious grafts. Regarding the deleted post, a lot of clinics do this, they don't want to hurt their reputation, one bad post can ruin a clinics image, but that's not your fault since you are only sharing your experience here, what happened sucks and you are not in the wrong here. Looking at the bright side, you are not bald and you have a lot of hair on top, your hair situation is not that bad, your donor seems good, you might be able to get 1000-1500 grafts from your donor, I would consult with a dermatologist to see if you actually have DUPA and perhaps send your photos and consult with other doctors? best of luck.

This is 100% true. I keep trying to remind the forum of this fact. It’s not a hunch, it’s a fact. There are no guarantees in hair transplant surgery. This is why your cry for a refund and lawyer was absurd in a previous thread. I hope this thread sheds some light into what I see daily.
 

dredd I feel for you, I really do, but there’s not much else the surgeon can do for you. There are no money-back guarantees, as patients we willingly accept that, there may be a chance that we will not get the desired result. I’m sure Dr. Pekiner told you this, or had you sign this, as he seems like an ethical doctor. 

Now, here’s what I think you should do, rule out any underlying conditions, get some second opinions. If you decide to have another procedure, do a test run maybe 100 grafts in one area, just to make sure they grow and there is no physiological reason the grafts didn’t grow. Lastly, I’m glad you found our forum, we’re here to help, one of the last forums like this IMO.
 

But you need to take advantage and actually use our forum. We have some good knowledgeable guys here like Transplantedphil, gillenator, lasercap to name a few. 


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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I totally agree with Melvin that there are no guarantees with surgery, and Dr Pekiner obviously had the right intentions when he was willing to repair you for free (it's less common than you think).

My main issue with your case is that had a bad result, you wanted to share it, got blamed for it despite the fact the rep's story doesn't make total sense to me, and then your result gets censored on another forum.

If my understanding is correct (and while I think the doctor was fair with you), I don't think you were treated fairly by the rep, I think you have a right to share your experience and look for support, and I think such censorship only does the HT community harm as it builds up an unrealistic expectation of what this industry is really like.

It's a tough pill to swallow but youve been given some solid advice from others on what to do next; get a proper diagnosis, see what your options are and take it from there. Wishing you the best

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

This is 100% true. I keep trying to remind the forum of this fact. It’s not a hunch, it’s a fact. There are no guarantees in hair transplant surgery. This is why your cry for a refund and lawyer was absurd in a previous thread. I hope this thread sheds some light into what I see daily.
 

Because the other patient had a butchered donor and recipient area and the doctor showed no sympathy towards the patient but wanted to charge him 12,000$ on top of the 18,000$ that he paid to fix his hair. At least the patient here still has good donor and was offered a 2nd procedure for free. 

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40 minutes ago, Abi28 said:

Because the other patient had a butchered donor and recipient area and the doctor showed no sympathy towards the patient but wanted to charge him 12,000$ on top of the 18,000$ that he paid to fix his hair. At least the patient here still has good donor and was offered a 2nd procedure for free. 

There are no refunds or guarantees, with any surgeon. I would also caution the forum to find out the entire facts before making a judgement on any case. We don’t know what was discussed, as we haven’t  heard from the surgeon or their side. We need to keep a level head and be objective and fair in all situations good or bad.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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18 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

There are no refunds or guarantees, with any surgeon. I would also caution the forum to find out the entire facts before making a judgement on any case. We don’t know what was discussed, as we haven’t  heard from the surgeon or their side. We need to keep a level head and be objective and fair in all situations good or bad.

Fair enough, I agree there are no guarantees.

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11 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

This is why your cry for a refund and lawyer was absurd in a previous thread. I hope this thread sheds some light into what I see daily.

This is exactly why Dredd being censored on another forum, (and the other thread that you referred to being locked) is so disappointing because it means as patients we are shielded from understanding the true realities of this industry. 

While I agree we need to be fair, in Dredd's instance we have heard from the clinic rep and I'm still confused; Dredd has always claimed he was never told he had DUPA, yet the clinic rep has argued otherwise, so unless the clinic can provide such evidence of a DUPA diagnosis existing (which should be easy enough given it would have been discussed in the messages) we should all be concerned how they handled Dredd's case publicly.  

Regarding the other thread - a bad result is one thing, but again it was all about how it was handled; the patient came to the forum looking for advice, learnt more and got more support here than from their own doctor, presumably didnt want to share their details so as not to involve Melvin , and ultimately sought help from another clinic. While in that case we never heard the doctor's side, it should be very telling that that patient actively avoided returning to them.  I would also argue that most doctor's dont want to be perceived as being responsible for poor work, so the fact we even saw it on this forum suggests that particular case wasn't handled correctly.

While we can all get upset about a bad result I believe the only things we can focus on is how a patient is treated by a specific clinic, and what can we do to help solve the situation.

And now Melvin has me worried about what he sees daily 😪

Edited by transplantedphil
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38 minutes ago, transplantedphil said:

Regarding the other thread - a bad result is one thing, but again it was all about how it was handled; the patient came to the forum looking for advice, learnt more and got more support here than from their own doctor, presumably didnt want to share their details so as not to involve Melvin , and ultimately sought help from another clinic. While in that case we never heard the doctor's side, it should be very telling that that patient actively avoided returning to them.  I would also argue that most doctor's dont want to be perceived as being responsible for poor work, so the fact we even saw it on this forum suggests that particular case wasn't handled correctly.

Exactly, it's 2 different situations, the other patient paid a lot of money and was butchered, he ended up with a horrible scar plus the doctor diagnosed him with narcosis at some point and than later he told him he misdiagnosed him and later wanted 12,000$ to repair his hair, totally different case. After care matters, at least the doctor here offered the patient a free procedure also his donor looks really good so he is not screwed for life. 

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19 minutes ago, Abi28 said:

Exactly, it's 2 different situations, the other patient paid a lot of money and was butchered, he ended up with a horrible scar plus the doctor diagnosed him with narcosis at some point and than later he told him he misdiagnosed him and later wanted 12,000$ to repair his hair, totally different case. After care matters, at least the doctor here offered the patient a free procedure also his donor looks really good so he is not screwed for life. 

My point is we only have one side of the story, we cannot speak in absolutes, also  saying his donor is screwed for life is your assumption.

A stretched scar doesn’t equal screwed for life. It’s comments like this, that cause patients a lot of unnecessary worry and anguish. Anyway, I want to keep this forum supportive and not destructive. Let’s no longer de-rail this conversation. 
 

dredd, I think you have plenty of options, you just need to make sure you make the appropriate steps. 


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Associate Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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20 hours ago, dredd77 said:

They deleted the report shortly after, but why? I think my case might be useful.

 

@dredd77 I am almost certain which forum you refer to when you talk about the fact that they have deleted the report, and I know how you can feel it, but as I wrote in another thread, the only thing we can do is to let more people know  possible the policy of these pseudo-forums, which are real commercial activities, abandoning them and instead making forums like HRN grow much more ethical than them.

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DUPA is not a particular illness or something that should be diagnosed with a biopsy, it is just androgenetic miniaturization diffusing into the donor, so that a variable percentage (20, 30, 50%..it depends on the case) of transplanted hair can suffer from miniaturization, just like hair on recipient, if the patients doesn't take Finasteride.

That's why dr. Pekiner always underlined the importance of the therapy in this case: because without an anti DHT therapy, also transplanted hair (not all of them) will suffer from androgenetic driven thinning.


Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic advisor

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On 12/12/2019 at 4:35 AM, transplantedphil said:

 

This is exactly why Dredd being censored on another forum, (and the other thread that you referred to being locked) is so disappointing because it means as patients we are shielded from understanding the true realities of this industry. 

While I agree we need to be fair, in Dredd's instance we have heard from the clinic rep and I'm still confused; Dredd has always claimed he was never told he had DUPA, yet the clinic rep has argued otherwise, so unless the clinic can provide such evidence of a DUPA diagnosis existing (which should be easy enough given it would have been discussed in the messages) we should all be concerned how they handled Dredd's case publicly.  

Regarding the other thread - a bad result is one thing, but again it was all about how it was handled; the patient came to the forum looking for advice, learnt more and got more support here than from their own doctor, presumably didnt want to share their details so as not to involve Melvin , and ultimately sought help from another clinic. While in that case we never heard the doctor's side, it should be very telling that that patient actively avoided returning to them.  I would also argue that most doctor's dont want to be perceived as being responsible for poor work, so the fact we even saw it on this forum suggests that particular case wasn't handled correctly.

While we can all get upset about a bad result I believe the only things we can focus on is how a patient is treated by a specific clinic, and what can we do to help solve the situation.

And now Melvin has me worried about what he sees daily 😪

The reality of the industry is not represented by the point of view of a patient at war with a clinic for some kind of revenge after an unsuccessful hair transplant, caused mainly by the patient's failure to follow doctor's orders.


Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic advisor

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10 minutes ago, Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic said:

The reality of the industry is not represented by the point of view of a patient at war with a clinic for some kind of revenge after an unsuccessful hair transplant, caused mainly by the patient's failure to follow doctor's orders.

Where is the proof where this was discussed through messages?

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1 minute ago, Dr. Pekiner Hair Clinic said:

So now this became an online trial where I am asked to bring proofs?

It’s word against word with patient and doctor rep claiming radically different things. As far as I’m concerned the patient has provided more proof of his side.

 

youre here to represent the doctor and bring in more business. This is a perfect opportunity to stand behind your doctors decision and claims on a public forum.

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On 12/12/2019 at 3:09 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

There are no refunds or guarantees, with any surgeon. I would also caution the forum to find out the entire facts before making a judgement on any case. We don’t know what was discussed, as we haven’t  heard from the surgeon or their side. We need to keep a level head and be objective and fair in all situations good or bad.

This is absolutely NON true. The vast majority of doctors offer a guarantee on their work. I should known having had 12 FUE surgeries in the past 14 years with 9 different and reputable doctors. ALL of them offered a 90% growth guarantee and I have been refunded on the one surgery where it did not happen with a poorly skilled surgeon.

This thread and how this forum member and patient is being treated really pisses me off. DUPA has nothing to do with poor growth. It can only mean that the hair can miniaturized over time. The surgeon obviously did not transplant miniaturized hairs so that would affect the result down the line.

I have been a patient of HLC and Dr Keser as well. I had outstanding results. I systemically achieved over 90% of growth on all my surgeries.

Does every hair transplant doctor have cases of poor growth? Probably but very very rare. The vast majority of top surgeons achieve the same results over and over again on a healthy and virgin scalp. That is why protocols are followed.

PD: Yes. I did actually just register to jump into this thread. That is how angry this thread has made me. I am veteran member at other forums. You can check my results and surgeries at those.

Edited by mustang
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