If money and travel were not issues...

[Gasthoerer]

2 hours ago, alboz said:

That makes no sense. I've yet to see any US clinic produce anything near as good as couto. Are you saying this cuz you represent a US clinic?

What is going on here? 

What is more realistic me being a shill for an US clinic or you be a troll? Lets see:

- I am here for years and have > 1000 post 

- I have documented my case with a Belgium clinic

- I have a proven track record of recommending different clinic around the world for different cases (please check my posts or ask long term users)

- You have 10 post with mostly nonsense comments

But even if we leave all of this aside and think you are more than a troll:

- Do you really believe there is one clinic in the world which can achieve significantly better with less than all (!) other top clinics? If you are so naïve and you think one clinic can beat the math (HT is all about math), go there. No one stops you!

- How many real patient reports (not clinic reports) anyone of you has seen from Couto? 100? 10? 1? 0?

Here are links provided by the Couto bandwagon in another thread. So not selected by me as bad ones, but by supports as good ones. That are very good results, I do not deny that. But are they outstanding? Better than anything I have ever seen? Natural density? Total natural appearance? Not for me:

https://foro.recuperarelpelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=73683&start=255

https://foro.recuperarelpelo.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=71184

[Gasthoerer]

1 hour ago, OliverAtom said:

Dr Hasson was the king a decade ago, amazing FUT surgeon ... with Dr Couto and the FUE technique we are talking about something else nowadays ...

Aha, it is the secret FUE technique 😉 Please enlighten me, how with FUE a better coverage is possible than the best FUT (with best cases having > 90 % growth rates) can achieve? Do they achieve >100 % growth with this secret FUE method? 

But one thing is correct: Only results count. Results by real patients not clinic posted results, with optimized light, hair characteristics and pseudo wetting. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Gasthoerer

[Portugal25]

True that nowadays new FUE techniques drastically reduced the transection rate and made possible FUE mega sessions with results almost at the same level as FUT so it’s understandable that nobody believes it to be necessary to have a FUT scar to achieve a good result. 
However, in cases where donor area limited and there’s a lot of area to cover FUT is preferable for the first (and maybe second) surgery with FUE only being advisable after there is no more skin laxity for FUT. 

I was advised by Dr. Pekiner that in order to maximize my donor area I should go for another FUT with Dr. Rahal and only after 1 year go to him for FUE+BHT but I didn’t want another FUT strip taken off and go threw a FUT recovery again so I decided on heading straight for a mega session FUE+BHT to get things done in one go (was a tuff decision and I’m still waiting to see if I made the right call).

If I had went back to a second FUT it would have been either Rahal again or H&W. 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Portugal25

[Aftermath]

1 hour ago, OliverAtom said:

OK. So you go a get the BEST result from Hasson. Dr Hasson himself talks about this result as:

"a result that would be considered a “home run”".
Hasson also says about this case that: "could arguably be the best single session hair transplant ever."

And you are comparing the BEST result from Dr Hasson with these cases in which Dr Couto with considerably fewer grafts gets equal or even better results : )

For example on this one case, Dr Couto uses HALF the grafts than Hasson. Yeah yeah, no KIDDING ... half the grafts 4200 vs 8400 ?!?!?! And this is just one of the many reasons there is no one like Dr Couto:



And then what to say about this other case/comparison.
Dr Couto operates on an IRRADIATED SCALP with just 5800 FUE Grafts ... while Dr Hasson get 8400 with the FUT Technique ...


Dr Hasson was the king a decade ago, amazing FUT surgeon and he is still great, I do respect him because in 2010 when I started my research on Hair Transplants Hasson was the man, but ... with Dr Couto and the FUE technique we are talking about something else nowadays ...

Well, I dont think there´s much more to say... RESULTS speak for themselves

No I don’t go and pick the best result, I pick the ONLY result I know to be on a man of Spanish origin from dr hasson because that was the whole point of my post... talking about how Spanish people have very favourable donor hair characteristics. I think the guys below cover the points so I’m not going to waste my time going into detail

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, alboz said:

That makes no sense. I've yet to see any US clinic produce anything near as good as couto. Are you saying this cuz you represent a US clinic?

You are relatively new here, but you should know that @Gasthoerer is a long member of our forum, he has given you facts. He may have a large portfolio of results on his YouTube channel, but real patient-reviews are what matters the most, why? Because they are not cherry picked. 

[alboz]

57 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

You are relatively new here, but you should know that @Gasthoerer is a long member of our forum, he has given you facts. He may have a large portfolio of results on his YouTube channel, but real patient-reviews are what matters the most, why? Because they are not cherry picked. 

He didnt give any facts. I've seen vids of couto and i've yet to see any doctor in US surpass him.

Quote

He may have a large portfolio of results on his YouTube channel, but real patient-reviews are what matters the most, why? Because they are not cherry picked. 

I agree results are what matters. Which is why couto has such a huge arsenal of vid results, that the amount of it dwarf gasthoerer's and yours combined.

Edited February 4, 2020 by alboz

[alboz]

1 hour ago, Portugal25 said:

If I had went back to a second FUT it would have been either Rahal again or H&W. 

Hearing good things about h&w. Theyre the best clinic in US now from all the results I've seen so far from all other doctors. Youll be in good hands.

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, alboz said:

He didnt give any facts. I've seen vids of couto and i've yet to see any doctor in US surpass him.

I agree results are what matters. Which is why couto has such a huge arsenal of vid results, that the amount of it dwarf gasthoerer's and yours combined.

Not sure if you understand what i meant by ‘patient-posted results,’ but I mean actual reviews. Like the ones you see in this forum. Not a video that the clinic puts on their YouTube channel.

Do you think a clinic is going to post anything other than great results? What matters most is how the every day non-cherry picked results look, and the fact is they are severely lacking. 

[alboz]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Not sure if you understand what i meant by ‘patient-posted results,’ but I mean actual reviews. Like the ones you see in this forum. Not a video that the clinic puts on their YouTube channel.

Do you think a clinic is going to post anything other than great results? What matters most is how the every day non-cherry picked results look, and the fact is they are severely lacking. 

Ok I understand now. Well all clinics cherry pick their results. You wont find a clinic not doing that. Take the results as they come. We cant change how clinics present them.

Theres a reason you have to wait 6 years to get a consult with couto.

Had a friend in London who saw couto. From what I've seen he did an absolutely incredible job on him. I was stunned. Dont know what he does but whatever he does he does like no other doctor is doing. My friend had to wait 2 - 3 years to see him. This was like 2012 or 13.

But again I seriously DO NOT recommend anyone see couto. This guy is booked solid for 6 years. My friends have waited and waited and finally gave up and went to other doctors. Couto's secretaries will likely forget following up with patients. Not worth it.

Edited February 4, 2020 by alboz

[duchaine]

IMHO there are several "criteria" to valutate a clinic and compare clinics:
1) you can consider the best results. So, you compare the best X clinic's patients VS the best Y clinic's patients
2) you can consider the ordinary results. So, you compare the typical results VS the typical results.
3) you can consider the % of good results and the % of bad results. So, you compare 2 clinics keeping in mind this parameter.

A clinic can be the best keeping in mind  one parameter and the worst considering another.
Image a surgeon using a very particular technique (or just  a doc that works with passion some days and listlessly another day) that gets outstanding results with some people but has a very poor results with others.

Now, if I use the first parameter, I can agree with @alboz and say that Couto is the best but  I can't say he would be my first choice simply because I don't know how good are his  ordinary results (all that I see are his youtube videos) and the % of good/bad results. 

[karatekid]

7 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

True that nowadays new FUE techniques drastically reduced the transection rate and made possible FUE mega sessions with results almost at the same level as FUT so it’s understandable that nobody believes it to be necessary to have a FUT scar to achieve a good result. 
However, in cases where donor area limited and there’s a lot of area to cover FUT is preferable for the first (and maybe second) surgery with FUE only being advisable after there is no more skin laxity for FUT. 

I was advised by Dr. Pekiner that in order to maximize my donor area I should go for another FUT with Dr. Rahal and only after 1 year go to him for FUE+BHT but I didn’t want another FUT strip taken off and go threw a FUT recovery again so I decided on heading straight for a mega session FUE+BHT to get things done in one go (was a tuff decision and I’m still waiting to see if I made the right call).

If I had went back to a second FUT it would have been either Rahal again or H&W. 

Why Pekiner tells you to go have FUT with another doctor? he doesnt perform FUT at all?

[Portugal25]

2 hours ago, karatekid said:

Why Pekiner tells you to go have FUT with another doctor? he doesnt perform FUT at all?

@karatekid you are correct, Dr. Pekiner does not perform FUT and he was advising me to get the most out of my donor area.

He gained my trust when he advised me to go have a FUT with Rahal before doing FUE with him.

[Aftermath]

8 hours ago, alboz said:

Well all clinics cherry pick their results. You wont find a clinic not doing that. Take the results as they come. We cant change how clinics present them.

Exactly! And this is Melvins whole point, and why actual cases presented by patients and not the actual clinic is of much more importance than the cherry picked ones the clinic wants you to see, that’s the only try test of consistency

[Portugal25]

9 hours ago, alboz said:

Ok I understand now. Well all clinics cherry pick their results. You wont find a clinic not doing that. Take the results as they come. We cant change how clinics present them.

@alboz you are making no sense whatsoever!

Only people that are new to Hair Transplants are seduced by before and after photos on clinic websites or paid "has been" celebrities endorsing clinics.

No HRN member in their right mind would ever chose a Doctor based on the results the Doctor has on his clinic website or on youtube. 

Here we look for real patients posting real reports of their experience and we wait for the photos the patients post after 12 months of surgery before we can reach any conclusion on the quality of the results.

Couto indeed has very little patients posting results and for this reason many will consider Konior and Lorenzo better options when looking for the world best FUE Doctors. 

Edited February 4, 2020 by Portugal25

[karatekid]

3 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

@karatekid you are correct, Dr. Pekiner does not perform FUT and he was advising me to get the most out of my donor area.

He gained my trust when he advised me to go have a FUT with Rahal before doing FUE with him.

Ok I understand. It leds me to another question - is it possible at all to have FUT after FUE mid-size procedure? just in order to get more grafts. Im asking because Im in a situation where I want to restore my hairline, but still want to have plenty donor reserve for future, and dont mind the scar. the problems is that I dont find many docs that do great hairlines - like De Freitas and Pekiner - using FUT.   Rahal, has great results no doubt, but still here and there I see bad cases of him, which make me question if his consistency is at the same level as the others.

[Portugal25]

@karatekid if you have already had FUE then they probably already removed grafts from the area where the FUT strip would be removed. You will not be a candidate for FUT.

I can tell you that Rahal is considered the King of hairlines but I would only advise him for FUT because he has been getting some not so great results with FUE.  Other top Doctors for FUT are H&W and Konior.

In your case I would advise Dr. Keser to restore your hairline because he needs much less grafts than other Doctors to achieve amazing hairlines,. Go check @Kaya results thread here at HRN.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Portugal25

[Aftermath]

43 minutes ago, Portugal25 said:

@karatekid if you have already had FUE then they probably already removed grafts from the area where the FUT strip would be removed. You will not be a candidate for FUT.

I can tell you that Rahal is considered the King of hairlines but I would only advise him for FUT because he has been getting some not so great results with FUE.  Other top Doctors for FUT are H&W and Konior.

In your case I would advise Dr. Keser to restore your hairline because he needs much less grafts than other Doctors to achieve amazing hairlines,. Go check @Kaya results thread here at HRN.

How did you find rahal? Did you get the results you wanted? To me his clinic was all propped up on PR and “rahal results”, I’ve seen some good results but in general I’ve found him hit and miss when it comes to real patient reports 

[Portugal25]

@Aftermath in 2008 Hair Restoration Network was pretty much all about Rahal, Hasson&Wong, Shapiro, Feller and Paul Rose. The Spanish FUE scene was just starting with Lorenzo but it was impossible to find any patients posting on the forums and FUT was still the best option for assuring great results.

Rahal patients were posting amazing harlines at HRN and he took into account that I was a 25 year old master student so he offered me a great discount which made my choice super easy.

Edited February 5, 2020 by Portugal25

[Aftermath]

1 hour ago, Portugal25 said:

@Aftermath in 2008 Hair Restoration Network was pretty much all about Rahal, Hasson&Wong, Shapiro and Feller. The Spanish FUE scene was starting with Lorenzo but it was impossible to find any patients posting on the forums and FUT was still the best option for assuring great results.

Rahal patients were posting amazing harlines at HRN and he took into account that I was a 25 year old master student so he offered me a great discount which made my choice super easy.

I agree, I had mine around the same time with hasson. Tbh though I wouldn’t change mine, I needed FUT and I’m glad I had it. I did have a look at your thread and the only pic I’m able to see is the one from last year, years after the HT, I was just wondering how your 1 year post ops looked, have you got any pics? 

[Portugal25]

@Aftermath I managed to save some of my Rahal HT photos from the italian forum that copy pasted them from HRN but they are terrible and have a watermark.
Also check a wet hair picture  taken 1 year after my HT.

Rahal is truly the king of FUT hairlines!

Edited February 5, 2020 by Portugal25

[Aftermath]

@Portugal25 yeah that looks really nice for a wet hair outdoor pic, shame you haven’t got the other pics. Picture hosting websites are a nightmare when they start changing their terms

[JayLDD]

On 2/2/2020 at 4:02 AM, karatekid said:

I dont get the saying that 'spanish guys has the best donot', why does it matter what donor density they have, at the end of the day there is a number of grafts used for the procedure, and when we compare results from different doctors we do it by comparing similar cases where same amount of grafts cover same area size,  dont we? so the question is why a non-spanish guy with same hairloss pattern would get different result with same number of gratfs?

I do understand the hair characteristic importance. But honestly I dont see something special in the hair of those guys. Actually the guy from the first video that @OliverAtom posted has kinda similar hair to mine, a dark wavy hair. And the results look very good

"when we compare results from different doctors we do it by comparing similar cases where same amount of grafts cover same area size,  dont we?"

This is most certainly how people *should* analyse results, but you can't seriously believe that people do so if you've looked on a forum like this for any length of time. People gravitate towards crazier, more substantially cosmetic results by nature, typically not "how economically have these grafts been utilised to obtain a minimum coverage". On top of this, similar cases have to involve similar donor quality.

"so the question is why a non-spanish guy with same hairloss pattern would get different result with same number of gratfs?"

Because their hair texture may be completely different, and on average is completely different depending on racial characteristics. Not hard to understand. Specifically regarding the characteristics mentioned by Gas.

In a significant amount of cases, particularly those involving Spanish patients with incredibly donor quality there is less emphasis by the doctor on maintaining a minimum coverage because there is less need, it also doesn't alter time constraints of extracting grafts so often the average hairline case will end up with 3k grafts regardless of the patient. That of course means incredible results for the average Couto or Freitas patient.

" But honestly I dont see something special in the hair of those guys."

If you don't see anything special among most Couto patients compared to surgeons in the US for example, you need to look at more cases and pay close attention to lighting, resolution, distance from camera etc, because you're clearly missing something.

"posted has kinda similar hair to mine, a dark wavy hair."

Darker, wavy hair, particularly of those like Spaniards tends to be much thicker than average among whites and wavy hair naturally gives good coverage. So when you say nothing special and specifically point to that video, is clearly means you're indeed missing something in your observations because his donor quality is well above average, even from a basic glance.

Edited February 4, 2020 by JayLDD

[alboz]

9 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

@alboz you are making no sense whatsoever!

Only people that are new to Hair Transplants are seduced by before and after photos on clinic websites or paid "has been" celebrities endorsing clinics.

No HRN member in their right mind would ever chose a Doctor based on the results the Doctor has on his clinic website or on youtube. 

Here we look for real patients posting real reports of their experience and we wait for the photos the patients post after 12 months of surgery before we can reach any conclusion on the quality of the results.

Couto indeed has very little patients posting results and for this reason many will consider Konior and Lorenzo better options when looking for the world best FUE Doctors. 

Actually youre not making any sense as your comments prove. People who just go online and dont visit clinics in person will make idiotic statements and think they know hair. Great switcharoo!

Serious hair transplant inquirers will research all info everywhere including vids on yt. So youre saying you went around HRN and surveyed all HRN users and come back with that result. Yeah okkkayyyy.

If couto has little patients posting results why does he have a slew of vids showcasing great results? Why is he the most popular doctor in europe now? Say that to my Londoner friend who went go from a norwood 3 to teen density after being treated by couto. He'll laugh in your face.

May be wrong but for some crazy reason you come off as jealous of couto. Cant put my finger on it but, you should not come off as negative.

Edited February 4, 2020 by alboz

[alboz]

9 hours ago, Aftermath said:

Exactly! And this is Melvins whole point, and why actual cases presented by patients and not the actual clinic is of much more importance than the cherry picked ones the clinic wants you to see, that’s the only try test of consistency

Ummm. Thats exactly what i said. But ok

[alboz]

7 hours ago, Portugal25 said:

@karatekid

I can tell you that Rahal is considered the King of hairlines

Lol. Been dethroned by couto. Next!