Where are the north American HT surgeons

[zach0786]

I have been following this forum for a while.

There was a time when this forum was filled with discussions about North American HT surgeons, like Feller, Dorin, Epstein, Glenn Charles, Hasson & Wong.

I get that competition has increased and many of these international surgeons work for a fraction of what a U.S surgeon would charge. But, does that really warrant this kind of disparity?

From what i see, better than 95% of the topics are about international HT surgeons. 

Just curious, that's all. No disrespect or offence intended.

[Melvin- Admin]

There’s a lot of agenda posting that I intend on fixing. One particular clinic is being targeted. I won’t say who, but lately a few unhappy patients have plagued this forum with their agenda.

It’s time to pull a few weeds from this garden. This forum is for healthy discussions about all surgeons. We welcome topics about North American surgeons. H&W, Rahal, Cooley, Konior, Gabel. In fact, stay tuned we may be visiting Gabel shortly and writing an extensive thread of our visit. 

[LaserCap]

Good observation, I think this is directly related to price.  This may change in time when you consider results and how things just seem to improve over time. To be fair, however doctors abroad do need to charge less when you consider travel expense, etc  if they are to market outside of their local market...but that's true regardless of where the practice is located.

 

[LonelyGraft]

A lot of those doctors are still recommended on this forum. Many of those doctors don’t post results much here. Some of them dropped off because they probably didn’t think the price was worth it for them to be recommended on this site.

 

my personal opinion is...a lot of these doctors talked about here nowadays have dedicated marketing teams and patient coordinators that scour these boards and answer questions as well as post results which gets noticed. Obviously the price is another consideration. I think that’s a big driver in terms of why bisanga and cole opened up their clinic in Greece- less cost and more access to the European/middle eastern pool of patients. Lastly, in terms of results, many of the doctors outside of North America are closing the gap.

[zach0786]

3 minutes ago, jj51702 said:

A lot of those doctors are still recommended on this forum. Many of those doctors don’t post results much here. Some of them dropped off because they probably didn’t think the price was worth it for them to be recommended on this site.

 

my personal opinion is...a lot of these doctors talked about here nowadays have dedicated marketing teams and patient coordinators that scour these boards and answer questions as well as post results which gets noticed. Obviously the price is another consideration. I think that’s a big driver in terms of why bisanga and cole opened up their clinic in Greece- less cost and more access to the European/middle eastern pool of patients. Lastly, in terms of results, many of the doctors outside of North America are closing the gap.

All valid points. However, what about lack of regulations like we have here, liability laws, etc?

Does that not give anyone pause? Or is money such a huge factor that it overrides all those concerns?

Once again, none of this is meant to denigrate the foreign surgeons/clinics. Just trying to get a feel for this surge towards overseas surgeries, and the almost complete lack of any presence of the U.S surgeons on these forums.

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, zach0786 said:

All valid points. However, what about lack of regulations like we have here, liability laws, etc?

Does that not give anyone pause? Or is money such a huge factor that it overrides all those concerns?

Once again, none of this is meant to denigrate the foreign surgeons/clinics. Just trying to get a feel for this surge towards overseas surgeries, and the almost complete lack of any presence of the U.S surgeons on these forums.

There’s a huge “black market FUE” problem in the hair restoration industry as a whole. Instagram is a tool that these clinics use. It’s not that American clinics have no presence.

Dr. Diep, Dr. Konior, H&W are still very present. As our other doctors, but also a lot of doctors have star patients that simply don’t want to post because of privacy concerns. That’s another big issue. If you’re from the US you can’t just post without the patient’s consent. Black market FUE clinics don’t care, hell  they steal pictures it’s the wild wild west.

Another factor to consider, is the majority of guys going overseas are young where money is a huge deciding factor. 

[LonelyGraft]

35 minutes ago, zach0786 said:

All valid points. However, what about lack of regulations like we have here, liability laws, etc?

Does that not give anyone pause? Or is money such a huge factor that it overrides all those concerns?

Once again, none of this is meant to denigrate the foreign surgeons/clinics. Just trying to get a feel for this surge towards overseas surgeries, and the almost complete lack of any presence of the U.S surgeons on these forums.

Ehhh it’s cosmetic surgery. I don’t think there’s much in terms of recourse even if you get a procedure done here. How many crazies are still pulling in patients (huebner, Bolton, etc) using ht tech from over 20 years ago and are still doing well business wise.

[Raphael84]

Some great points. The industry has changed substantially, and not for the better, over the last several years. The real change came when FUE began to gain popularity. With the removal and closing of the donor strip no longer necessary, as Melvin said, it really did/has become the wild wild west. Which poses many questions, both in regards to the field of hair restoration and our greater morality. Its disgusting.

Many clinics have a larger and more experienced marketing team than they do medically trained professionals. This is their business model. With beautifully constructed marketing campaigns constantly advertised on social media, where millennials apparently spend on average 142 minutes per day.

"From checking Facebook while waiting in the grocery line to posting photos on Instagram during eating – social media plays a significant role in our daily lives. In this digital age, most of us are slowly becoming (if not already) social media addicts"  Quoted from https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2019/01/how-much-time-do-people-spend-social-media-infographic.html

Millennials being young individuals growing up in a society where photos and selfies are the norm, feel extremely pressured to "fit in". Hair loss often makes one feel like an outsider. I dont need to list every insecurity that hair loss creates in young men, most of us here are in the same boat in that respect. Therefore whilst scrolling through instagram and feeling incredibly down about yourself, the solution lands in your lap, all for the price of €2,000. Why wouldn't you???? Even at €2,000 it is a stretch for many of these young men, so then when they compare this to the cost of many of the worlds best surgeons, it unfortunately becomes a complete infeasibility.

The black market of FUE has hugely affected many a young mans life. If you haven't already, then take a few minutes to educate yourself on the subject. https://ishrs.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/BlackMarketAwareCampaignISHRS-ENGLISH_PPT_PermissiontoUse4.10.19.pdf

@jj51702 You are correct in one way. This is exactly why BisangaCole came to be. The clinic has been formed out of a necessity to help a population of people that lack the financial resources to live happy and productive lives free from concerns over their hair loss and to help them avoid unsafe clinics due to a lack of financial means.  The subset of individuals with limited funds is much larger than the group with a large bank account.  BisangaCole will help the price conscious patient to avoid inferior quality surgery in low cost clinics. The effort to protect patients is why we have opened the clinic in Athens.

 

[LonelyGraft]

22 minutes ago, Raphael84 said:

Some great points. The industry has changed substantially, and not for the better, over the last several years. The real change came when FUE began to gain popularity. With the removal and closing of the donor strip no longer necessary, as Melvin said, it really did/has become the wild wild west. Which poses many questions, both in regards to the field of hair restoration and our greater morality. Its disgusting.

Many clinics have a larger and more experienced marketing team than they do medically trained professionals. This is their business model. With beautifully constructed marketing campaigns constantly advertised on social media, where millennials apparently spend on average 142 minutes per day.

"From checking Facebook while waiting in the grocery line to posting photos on Instagram during eating – social media plays a significant role in our daily lives. In this digital age, most of us are slowly becoming (if not already) social media addicts"  Quoted from https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2019/01/how-much-time-do-people-spend-social-media-infographic.html

Millennials being young individuals growing up in a society where photos and selfies are the norm, feel extremely pressured to "fit in". Hair loss often makes one feel like an outsider. I dont need to list every insecurity that hair loss creates in young men, most of us here are in the same boat in that respect. Therefore whilst scrolling through instagram and feeling incredibly down about yourself, the solution lands in your lap, all for the price of €2,000. Why wouldn't you???? Even at €2,000 it is a stretch for many of these young men, so then when they compare this to the cost of many of the worlds best surgeons, it unfortunately becomes a complete infeasibility.

The black market of FUE has hugely affected many a young mans life. If you haven't already, then take a few minutes to educate yourself on the subject. https://ishrs.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/BlackMarketAwareCampaignISHRS-ENGLISH_PPT_PermissiontoUse4.10.19.pdf

@jj51702 You are correct in one way. This is exactly why BisangaCole came to be. The clinic has been formed out of a necessity to help a population of people that lack the financial resources to live happy and productive lives free from concerns over their hair loss and to help them avoid unsafe clinics due to a lack of financial means.  The subset of individuals with limited funds is much larger than the group with a large bank account.  BisangaCole will help the price conscious patient to avoid inferior quality surgery in low cost clinics. The effort to protect patients is why we have opened the clinic in Athens.

 

So helping patients was the only reason they opened a clinic in Athens? Not profits? What a noble cause my friend 🙄

[pvlife]

On 8/12/2019 at 6:16 PM, LonelyGraft said:

So helping patients was the only reason they opened a clinic in Athens? Not profits? What a noble cause my friend 🙄

Perhaps @Raphael84 meant to imply that a significant customer-need was there, and the new clinic wanted to target that need. It is understandable that any for-profit business operates with the goal of making profit

[Raphael84]

Thanks @pvlife

I chose not to respond to the sarcastic/provocative nature of the comment. 

I appreciate it.

[Sean]

There are surgeons in North America but very few that can offer the type of service, cost, and ethics elsewhere.  
 

Dr Wong seems to be quite ethical, if youve ever spoken with him, you may notice it.  He seems to be patient oriented and may be willing to help assist folks that also had failed surgeries by other doctors.  To basically repair their work. 
 

You have Dr Feller, but it was reoprted here that he isn’t practicing anymore and Dr Bloxham is doing surgeries.

You have Dr Lindsey who seems to take on repair patients of other clinics as well.  
 

You probably have another few surgeons here that consider patient safety first rather then try to risk patients with unnecessary scalp damages and issues.

 

On international forums, youll find a lot if docs that also do work themselves but in limited quantities.  Example- Dr Keser and other surgeons who do extractions and placements themselves.