4650 Grafts with Dr Resul Yaman - 13.7.2019

[Melvin- Admin]

6 minutes ago, gbhscot said:

Maybe the case. If so then a slight feeling of disappointment remains, although not with the clinic at all - I still do genuinely think they were excellent. So what's a fine haired guy to do? Push the boat out for a 2nd HT and go for absolute maximum possible density? SMP? Start using fibres again? (told by clinic these are poison for transplanted hairs). I feel i'm 20% away from being totally satisfied with it currently.

Out of curiosity, do you think FUT is more advisable for guys with fine hair?

Fine haired guys and even thick haired guys that are Norwood 5+ will always need more than one surgery to get coverage and density.

FUT is always more advisable, but as you mentioned the possibility of buzzing your hair shorter would be gone. If that’s important your only option is multiple FUE’s.

You’re in a good spot with good growth, minimal scarring. It really depends on what you want.  You could just leave it as is and use fibers in the crown. You would look perfect. 

[hairlossPA]

its a great transformation. its a good first pass that has given you a foundation to work off of and tweak. I'd go for a second pass to add density to the hairline and midscalp and leave the crown alone

[Tbcruz]

1 hour ago, gbhscot said:

Out of curiosity, do you think FUT is more advisable for guys with fine hair?

I don’t have fine hair according to my doctor, but he did mention that my grafts were more frágil. Which is probably why my first fue procedure had some gaps from grafts that didn’t survive.  In my opinion fut caters to all types of hair as far as safely extracting them from the donor. Fue is more tedious on some people.

[Coady]

3 hours ago, Tbcruz said:

I don’t have fine hair according to my doctor, but he did mention that my grafts were more frágil. Which is probably why my first fue procedure had some gaps from grafts that didn’t survive.  In my opinion fut caters to all types of hair as far as safely extracting them from the donor. Fue is more tedious on some people.

How do u know if your grafts are fragile or not before having a transplant ? 

[Tbcruz]

19 minutes ago, Coady said:

How do u know if your grafts are fragile or not before having a transplant ? 

That’s a good question. My guess is if youR doing fue and the doctor notices that the quality of the grafts being extracted are not looking good he should stop and give that patient an alternative (fut) or tell me him that it’s unethical to continue ( most doctors will continue because of $) unless they truly care about their patient.

[gbhscot]

So just to update - I had a call yesterday with Ayfer, Dr Yamans assistant - I had sent some pics via whatsapp and she called within an hour - for me, that is impressive customer service and I really have to take my hat off to Dr Yaman for his aftercare - they have been brilliant. When I see the other stories of Turkish clinics, I'm so glad a took the last minute switch to Yaman!

Few interesting things came out - had the impression they could see some further thinning too, but weren't concerned as a) there still has bee significant growht (which I do agree with to a large extent) and b) The perceived loss in density could well be stress, lifestyle or season related (I'm really thinking seasonal - whenever I get bad hayfever, my hair get's thinner alongside it - anyone else notice that?*)

Anyway, what she did advise me, which I found interesting, was the drop using Nizoral ( I use it probably less than once a week) and just use an organic bar of soap, even make myself. Have ordered some and will see how I go with that I guess. Was surprised as I've never heard anyone say Nizoral is a bad idea!

Considering getting a PRP treatment to see if it gives it a bit of a boost - they advised this could be a good idea.

 

*Funnily enough, Citirizine, a hayfever medication, has been shown to have a big effect on AGA when applied topically.... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28604133/

[Melvin- Admin]

Interesting about citirizine, is it over the counter? 

[gbhscot]

Just now, Melvin-Moderator said:

Interesting about citirizine, is it over the counter? 

It's dirt cheap over the counter. Creating my own topical is more the challenge, though my flatmate is a pharma researcher so will see if she has an idea to conjure this up...

I have this weird thing, when I (very occasionally) derma roll, I always sneeze and my eyes water, it feels like an allergic reaction. Aside from that, m y hair always shed more in summer and definitely gets thinner in texture. I get hayfever symptoms which are probably the lower end of a strong reaction around this time of year too. And I'm certain that allergy and AGA are related, purely as the PGD2 pathway is implicated so much in both.

What I fancy trying is a derma rolling followed by topical Citrizine (not worried about crossing blood barrier as it seems to be relatively side effect free) - I can't find a single account of someone trying that on any forum thus far. Had thought of it before my transplant then shelved it.

[Melvin- Admin]

Try it out man, I’d love to follow your progress, I’d be eager to see if you tell a difference.

[HTHope]

8 hours ago, gbhscot said:

So just to update - I had a call yesterday with Ayfer, Dr Yamans assistant - I had sent some pics via whatsapp and she called within an hour - for me, that is impressive customer service and I really have to take my hat off to Dr Yaman for his aftercare - they have been brilliant. When I see the other stories of Turkish clinics, I'm so glad a took the last minute switch to Yaman!

Few interesting things came out - had the impression they could see some further thinning too, but weren't concerned as a) there still has bee significant growht (which I do agree with to a large extent) and b) The perceived loss in density could well be stress, lifestyle or season related (I'm really thinking seasonal - whenever I get bad hayfever, my hair get's thinner alongside it - anyone else notice that?*)

Anyway, what she did advise me, which I found interesting, was the drop using Nizoral ( I use it probably less than once a week) and just use an organic bar of soap, even make myself. Have ordered some and will see how I go with that I guess. Was surprised as I've never heard anyone say Nizoral is a bad idea!

Considering getting a PRP treatment to see if it gives it a bit of a boost - they advised this could be a good idea.

 

*Funnily enough, Citirizine, a hayfever medication, has been shown to have a big effect on AGA when applied topically.... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28604133/

Did she give any reason why nizoral could be harmful?

[gbhscot]

The reason given was just that it's chemically very aggressive and reduces the strength of individual hairs....so makes them thinner, meaning the overall look is thinner. I've been using organic "african" soap for the last week, hair certainly feels much robuster afterwards, I like the texture. I'm getting this horrible itching in my mid scalp currently, though before I started using the soap...had hoped nizoral would sort it but it's still driving me insane.

Have been on a bit of a research binge recently, about to start a disciplined 3* a week dermarolling + AM redensyl, PM minox + topical citirizine regimen to see if I can bolster the crown a bit.

[ezee_duzit]

On 5/29/2020 at 3:12 PM, gbhscot said:

So just to update - I had a call yesterday with Ayfer, Dr Yamans assistant - I had sent some pics via whatsapp and she called within an hour - for me, that is impressive customer service and I really have to take my hat off to Dr Yaman for his aftercare - they have been brilliant. When I see the other stories of Turkish clinics, I'm so glad a took the last minute switch to Yaman!

Few interesting things came out - had the impression they could see some further thinning too, but weren't concerned as a) there still has bee significant growht (which I do agree with to a large extent) and b) The perceived loss in density could well be stress, lifestyle or season related (I'm really thinking seasonal - whenever I get bad hayfever, my hair get's thinner alongside it - anyone else notice that?*)

Anyway, what she did advise me, which I found interesting, was the drop using Nizoral ( I use it probably less than once a week) and just use an organic bar of soap, even make myself. Have ordered some and will see how I go with that I guess. Was surprised as I've never heard anyone say Nizoral is a bad idea!

Considering getting a PRP treatment to see if it gives it a bit of a boost - they advised this could be a good idea.

 

*Funnily enough, Citirizine, a hayfever medication, has been shown to have a big effect on AGA when applied topically.... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28604133/

Hi @gbhscot just been reading through this topic, progress looks great by the way!

I'm 6 months post-op and had my HT with Dr Yaman too, I will get round to doing a review at some point. Overall I am generally pleased with everything so far even at this early stage. Fikret has been great with answering all my questions and concerns. I will add that if I had no further growth/density even at this stage I would be happy, it is 100% times better than pre-op (NW3v). 

Just wanted to add my thoughts on the use of Nizoral, three times a week was okay for first 2-3 weeks as advised but after this once a week was max. Although it is considered uncommon – affecting less than 1 in 100 people – Nizoral shampoo does list hair loss as a potential side effect. There's also lots of scepticism on the use of H&S shampoo and it' impact on hair loss (which I used to use regularly) have limited my use of this now and make sure I use a good conditioner regularly too. 

I've been taking fin for just under a year and think this has helped in slowing down my loss, tried minoxidil but didn't get on with it at all (headaches) 

Interested to know how you get on with the dermarolling.

Edited June 19, 2020 by ezee_duzit
style

[CosmoKramer]

On 5/29/2020 at 10:27 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Interesting about citirizine, is it over the counter? 

Citirizine is generic Zyrtec...and the Costco version is damn cheap for 100 tablets.

Ive tried it in the past.

[CosmoKramer]

On 5/29/2020 at 10:34 AM, gbhscot said:

It's dirt cheap over the counter. Creating my own topical is more the challenge, though my flatmate is a pharma researcher so will see if she has an idea to conjure this up...

I have this weird thing, when I (very occasionally) derma roll, I always sneeze and my eyes water, it feels like an allergic reaction. Aside from that, m y hair always shed more in summer and definitely gets thinner in texture. I get hayfever symptoms which are probably the lower end of a strong reaction around this time of year too. And I'm certain that allergy and AGA are related, purely as the PGD2 pathway is implicated so much in both.

What I fancy trying is a derma rolling followed by topical Citrizine (not worried about crossing blood barrier as it seems to be relatively side effect free) - I can't find a single account of someone trying that on any forum thus far. Had thought of it before my transplant then shelved it.

Re: Citirine, I’ve tried it specifically because of the PGD2 study, before my HT a couple years ago and actually about last October I purchased the tabs once again to consider giving it a try once again, as I did not use it consistently previously.
 

When I did use it topically (in a mixture of distilled water as it’s water soluble) If I recall I did notice less hair shedding and some slight growth of vellus hairs, but again not consistent, I am considering adding it to my routine in combination with microneedling + MinoxFoam & scalp massages.

But I would recommend that if you want to improve your crown some, I would get a scalp massage brush or scalp massager and use it daily, for a few months, with or without topical citirizine.

[gbhscot]

3 hours ago, ezee_duzit said:

Hi @gbhscot just been reading through this topic, progress looks great by the way!

I'm 6 months post-op and had my HT with Dr Yaman too, I will get round to doing a review at some point. Overall I am generally pleased with everything so far even at this early stage. Fikret has been great with answering all my questions and concerns. I will add that if I had no further growth/density even at this stage I would be happy, it is 100% times better than pre-op (NW3v). 

Just wanted to add my thoughts on the use of Nizoral, three times a week was okay for first 2-3 weeks as advised but after this once a week was max. Although it is considered uncommon – affecting less than 1 in 100 people – Nizoral shampoo does list hair loss as a potential side effect. There's also lots of scepticism on the use of H&S shampoo and it' impact on hair loss (which I used to use regularly) have limited my use of this now and make sure I use a good conditioner regularly too. 

I've been taking fin for just under a year and think this has helped in slowing down my loss, tried minoxidil but didn't get on with it at all (headaches) 

Interested to know how you get on with the dermarolling.

Definitely post your results, we'd love to see them. I'd agree, they've been good with the aftercare, taking time to make phone calls and answer questions. 6 months is still early for no more growth, so fingers crossed, I'm still half hopeful to get another growth spurt and tbh, I don't think it's unheard of so let's see.

32 minutes ago, CosmoKramer said:

Re: Citirine, I’ve tried it specifically because of the PGD2 study, before my HT a couple years ago and actually about last October I purchased the tabs once again to consider giving it a try once again, as I did not use it consistently previously.
 

When I did use it topically (in a mixture of distilled water as it’s water soluble) If I recall I did notice less hair shedding and some slight growth of vellus hairs, but again not consistent, I am considering adding it to my routine in combination with microneedling + MinoxFoam & scalp massages.

But I would recommend that if you want to improve your crown some, I would get a scalp massage brush or scalp massager and use it daily, for a few months, with or without topical citirizine.

Interesting, thanks for adding Cosmo, somehow unsuprised you'd come to the Citerizine idea first. Might PM you regarding the solution you put together at some point, haven't gotten round to properly making one up yet. Salp massage is something I've considered but never really engaged with - any resources I could use to to learn how? For a while I was really into the hydraulic theory of hair loss - https://www.academia.edu/17570665/A_Review_of_the_issues_in_Historic_and_Current_Hair_Research_and_an_Overlooked_Connection which I think could be part of the puzzle, and would stand to reason that scalp massage could play a role in that....

I found some going cheap on offer, so I'm currently using Redensyl foam in the AM and Minox PM to see what happens...could be playing with fire a bit, but the redensyl burns in a reassuring way on the scalp....interested to see what happens there.

I'd really like to come off of Fin for good, taking M/W/F split and still feel like I'm getting sides. If I could get some regrowth in the crown by other means, I'd be so keen to keep that up and go back to Yaman for another 3k grafts to the mid scalp and maybe the corners. I just need to find a solution for the crown first up.

[CosmoKramer]

2 hours ago, gbhscot said:

Definitely post your results, we'd love to see them. I'd agree, they've been good with the aftercare, taking time to make phone calls and answer questions. 6 months is still early for no more growth, so fingers crossed, I'm still half hopeful to get another growth spurt and tbh, I don't think it's unheard of so let's see.

Interesting, thanks for adding Cosmo, somehow unsuprised you'd come to the Citerizine idea first. Might PM you regarding the solution you put together at some point, haven't gotten round to properly making one up yet. Salp massage is something I've considered but never really engaged with - any resources I could use to to learn how? For a while I was really into the hydraulic theory of hair loss - https://www.academia.edu/17570665/A_Review_of_the_issues_in_Historic_and_Current_Hair_Research_and_an_Overlooked_Connection which I think could be part of the puzzle, and would stand to reason that scalp massage could play a role in that....

I found some going cheap on offer, so I'm currently using Redensyl foam in the AM and Minox PM to see what happens...could be playing with fire a bit, but the redensyl burns in a reassuring way on the scalp....interested to see what happens there.

I'd really like to come off of Fin for good, taking M/W/F split and still feel like I'm getting sides. If I could get some regrowth in the crown by other means, I'd be so keen to keep that up and go back to Yaman for another 3k grafts to the mid scalp and maybe the corners. I just need to find a solution for the crown first up.

You’re welcome!

i was a long time lurker on several hair loss forums and when something popped up with some backing in theory I would give it a shot, shit when I was in my late teens I took Finasteride before it was even approved for hair loss (purchased Proscar from an online pharmacy before they all became suspect and cut it up in 1/5ths) gave it a shot for a year, then dropped it as it was expensive to purchase. Same with citirizine, read the studied and comments of people trying it and as it was over the counter and cheap I gave it a try, and may do so again soon. Sure, DM me if you like but my citirizine mixture was simple I crushed up the small tablets (forgot the ration of tabs to use)  in a 60ml glass dropper bottle and shook it til fully dissolved and then just slathered it all over my scalp (maybe now if I use it in conjunction with my scalp massages it may work better than before). Another thing I recently read was that since it has a short shelf life when dissolved in water it may be better to crush a few tabs in a few ml of distilled water daily so it maintains its potency rather than a large sum in a bottle for a weeks time or so.

As for scalp massage resources, I just searched YouTube but not much on there, and just purchased an $40 electric scalp massager off amazon (I posted the link and photo in my microneedling thread a short while ago in the Open Topic section). Now, be aware, like any new treatment you will shed weak hairs as I did (about 100 per day) but now I’m seeing new stronger thicker hairs coming in in my crown. I don’t use Finasteride only Minox Foam 1x a day after either a microneedling session or scalp massage (but daily) and with the electric is simple and easier to do and more efficient in my opinion. And I do believe hair loss and miniaturization has several facets, DHT, T, E, Sebum build up and clogging, scalp calcification  (before I started microneedling or scalp massages I used to see a small pale bulb of hardened sebum on every hair follicle that I shed, to me it was a sign of miniaturization as DHT is in the sebum that then chokes off the blood supply IMHO, but now I don’t see any hardened sebum at the root of shedding follicles and I attribute that to better nourishing blood flow and my routine preventing the follicles from weakening, and they do look thicker)

IMHO, I think your result looks very good and natural considering your NW level and hair type and caliber considering your before it’s quite a an improvement, if I were in your shoes I would reserve any 2nd HT to add density and not so much to lower hairline or fill in temples too much or crown, I’m now a believer the crown can be tackled with other means rather than waste grafts there that may not take but use them elsewhere, just my thoughts.

I saw a guy on the reddit section whom had similar hair type to yours a while back and i may have saved his routine so I’ll add it below if I find it.

[CosmoKramer]

This is the electric scalp massager I purchased and use almost nightly.

[CosmoKramer]

And here is this dude’s case and impressive progress from his routine he posted on reddit:

[gbhscot]

Funnily enough, I saw his post on a facebook group and had commented it saying it was a great result, he was also into scalp massage if I remember right? I'll order a scalp massager and see...if I could get my crown to fill in more through more natural approaches, then it's a no-brainer to go for a second pass for the front 2/3ds density.

[CosmoKramer]

2 hours ago, gbhscot said:

Funnily enough, I saw his post on a facebook group and had commented it saying it was a great result, he was also into scalp massage if I remember right? I'll order a scalp massager and see...if I could get my crown to fill in more through more natural approaches, then it's a no-brainer to go for a second pass for the front 2/3ds density.

Ah cool, yes, he mentioned on his Reddit post he does daily scalp massages for 5 minutes, but I’m not sure if he uses his hands or a comb or a device, though, but worth a good try. Btw, which Facebook group?

 

[stratos]

nice results, how many grafts did you put from beard area?