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Bill - Seemiller

Potential Recommendation of Dr. Emrah Cinik of Istanbul, Turkey

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Haha, good catch :) I feel though more charismatic and confident now .

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The trouble with looking at before/after results from this clinic and others like it is that you don't know if the surgical team that performed the transplant will be the same one that operates on you.  Even though a particular result may look fantastic, the team that produced it may never touch your head. The before/after results are more meaningful if you know that the same team that produced them is the one that will work on you.  Many top surgeons that use techs for implantation and even excision have a single team that has been together for a long time and all results (good and bad) from the surgeon are delivered by the the same team.  

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It isn't true that the clinic only has 2-3 patients per day. On the day of my procedure, there were around 9 patients and to be honest, it felt like a chaotic process having so many people coming and going.

When I booked my procedure, I was only offered the basic package and I felt there was a lack of clarity around that.

It's too early to know what my results will look like but based on everything that I've seen from Dr Cinik's clinic I'm optimistic.

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9 hours ago, MrOneSeries said:

It isn't true that the clinic only has 2-3 patients per day. On the day of my procedure, there were around 9 patients and to be honest, it felt like a chaotic process having so many people coming and going.

When I booked my procedure, I was only offered the basic package and I felt there was a lack of clarity around that.

It's too early to know what my results will look like but based on everything that I've seen from Dr Cinik's clinic I'm optimistic.

how long ago was your procedure?

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10 hours ago, MrOneSeries said:

It isn't true that the clinic only has 2-3 patients per day. On the day of my procedure, there were around 9 patients and to be honest, it felt like a chaotic process having so many people coming and go.

@Bill was stating that Dr Cinik operates on 2-3 patients a day.

His clinic may perform significantly more "tech only" procedures daily without him.

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I was actually considering Dr. Cinik after seeing the results posted by lukeyb1687His results were some of the best I've seen but after finding out that the clinic does several procedures a day I decided against it. Like someone else was saying you don't know which team is performing the procedure and if that team will be the same one you get on the day of your operation. That's just too many variables for me that can influence the final result and a risk I'm not willing to take. I have also heard from other sources that the doctor does perform up to 9 surgeries a day like another poster was saying.

When I was also researching cinik on google I did came across a post made by a member on another forum that sounded like a nightmare to me. He was basically saying his procedure was done in a tiny room and he said the technicians were using their phones during the operation (wtf)... For me those are big red flags and I'm not willing to take a risk on a surgeon like that.

Edited by bruce90
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41 minutes ago, bruce90 said:

I was actually considering Dr. Cinik after seeing the results posted by lukeyb1687His results were some of the best I've seen but after finding out that the clinic does several procedures a day I decided against it. Like someone else was saying you don't know which team is performing the procedure and if that team will be the same one you get on the day of your operation. That's just too many variables for me that can influence the final result and a risk I'm not willing to take. I have also heard from other sources that the doctor does perform up to 9 surgeries a day like another poster was saying.

When I was also researching cinik on google I did came across a post made by a member on another forum that sounded like a nightmare to me. He was basically saying his procedure was done in a tiny room and he said the technicians were using their phones during the operation (wtf)... For me those are big red flags and I'm not willing to take a risk on a surgeon like that.

I saw that also just google search  LostSoldier and Cinik to find it.. The thread is named  Horrible experience - Hair transplant disaster 

 

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2 hours ago, Grouchy said:

@Bill was stating that Dr Cinik operates on 2-3 patients a day.

His clinic may perform significantly more "tech only" procedures daily without him.

OK well yes, that certainly is the case but he is still supervising the procedures that the techs are doing.

My point is that it is a very busy clinic, at least when I was there.

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I have seen come really nice results from this clinic, I think will be a good addition to recommended doctors here.

 


My Thread: 

 

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this forum should really start considering recommending clinics rather than doctors. Especially when it is obvious the doctor is not involved in easily half of the procedure and only "monitors" and "supervises". LOL. what does that even mean? "ahhhh yes Lisa good extractions". "guys dont go over 4000 grafts". "ahhh yes they're implanting now. I'll head back to my office".

 

I realize that a lot of doctors use techs. That is not my argument. My argument is to recommend the company/clinic/staff at an establishment rather than the doctor. You really think if a doctor only makes incisions and "supervises" and then leaves a clinic and another doctor replaces him, his incisions are going to significantly alter the results and reputations? 

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I don't get it. Even though he has a cheap price I would NEVER go to this surgeon because he DOES NOT perform the surgery. His technicians do which is concerning. Look for example at dr.Bisanga, he works WITH his technicians, that's how you, as a surgeon supposed to work. I would never go to a clinic where the surgeon only draws you the line, that's just ridiculous and his technicians do all the work and if the results are very nice dr.Cinik will get all the praise and not his technicians. I never understood this.

Edited by Cristian1

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7 hours ago, hairlossPA said:

this forum should really start considering recommending clinics rather than doctors. Especially when it is obvious the doctor is not involved in easily half of the procedure and only "monitors" and "supervises". LOL. what does that even mean? "ahhhh yes Lisa good extractions". "guys dont go over 4000 grafts". "ahhh yes they're implanting now. I'll head back to my office".

 

I realize that a lot of doctors use techs. That is not my argument. My argument is to recommend the company/clinic/staff at an establishment rather than the doctor. You really think if a doctor only makes incisions and "supervises" and then leaves a clinic and another doctor replaces him, his incisions are going to significantly alter the results and reputations? 

This situation is a relatively new situation in Turkey where different packages are offered.. no need to distinguish between the Doctor and the clinic up to this point ..my point is Dr Clinik is responsible for everything  that happens in his clinic he is the one who takes payment for every op there whether he is doing the incisions or not, whether he gets outside techs to do the most expensive package to do the DHI procedure ..to say you can separate  and recommend him only for one third of the operations there  is crazy ..does anyone think that if a rep is asked by a patient "I hear  the  Hair   Restoration Network   recommends this clinic"  they will be told no not the clinic.. HRN only  recommends Dr  clinik and the 2nd option package ..like hell they would . 

Edited by Mick50

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59 minutes ago, Mick50 said:

This situation is a relatively new situation in Turkey where different packages are offered.. no need to distinguish between the Doctor and the clinic up to this point ..my point is Dr Clinik is responsible for everything  that happens in his clinic he is the one who takes payment for every op there whether he is doing the incisions or not, whether he gets outside techs to do the most expensive package to do the DHI procedure ..to say you can separate  and recommend him only for one third of the operations there  is crazy ..does anyone think that if a rep is asked I hear  the  Hair   Restoration Network   recommends this clinic they will be told no not the clinic.. HRN only  recommends Dr  clinik and the 2nd option package ..like hell they would . 

But why not? If second package is good why somebody miss that, if people can get good transplant and this recommendation can help them to be satisfied.I doubt while between dr Demisroy,dr Yaman and dr Cinik for my first HT and after this potential recommendation my first choice is dr Ciniks second package for now.But yea maybe is a little confuse how to limit recommendation only for offer where dr Cinik do incisions.But again its a personally which offer you choose,and if you choose first or third offer that your decision to do transplant without dr Cinik and nothing is controversial than logically this recommendation has nothing to do with it.

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If Dr Cinik is recommended, people are going to think the clinic as a whole is recommended.

This will happen, we know it will happen, we shouldn't pretend it won't.

Realistically, people are not going to read the fine print of what a recommendation entails and what the demarcation is.

When @Bill - Managing Publisher first posted this thread, he posted incorrect info about Cinik and DHI (which has since been edited).

Bill failed to fully understand the ins-and-outs of the clinic and the doctor's role based on his communication with them. 

So already we've had someone (not a naieve noob) struggle to fully grasp the doctors role in this clinic.

The question is what is more important for this site - finances or posting clear recommendations for users that don't involve reading fine print ( we recommend this doctor, but not the clinic he runs, and only one of the 3 packages they offer, and don't make the same mistake we did about his role in DHI 😬).

 

 

 

Edited by Grouchy
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2 hours ago, crotalus said:

But why not? If second package is good why somebody miss that, if people can get good transplant and this recommendation can help them to be satisfied.I doubt while between dr Demisroy,dr Yaman and dr Cinik for my first HT and after this potential recommendation my first choice is dr Ciniks second package for now.But yea maybe is a little confuse how to limit recommendation only for offer where dr Cinik do incisions.But again its a personally which offer you choose,and if you choose first or third offer that your decision to do transplant without dr Cinik and nothing is controversial than logically this recommendation has nothing to do with it.

No one is saying don't go to Dr Clinik for the second package if they wish.. but as I  said it's impossible in my opinion to separate Dr Clinik form the clinic he represents and makes his living from.. and this site would bring a heap of trouble upon itself if it went ahead with the recommendation..  on this matter... if people can't see the confusion  and the moral dilemma recommending Dr Clinik would present.. there's not a lot more that can be said .

Edited by Mick50

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1 hour ago, Grouchy said:

If Dr Cinik is recommended, people are going to think the clinic as a whole is recommended.

This will happen, we know it will happen, we shouldn't pretend it won't.

Realistically, people are not going to read the fine print of what a recommendation entails and what the demarcation is.

When @Bill - Managing Publisher first posted this thread, he posted incorrect info about Cinik and DHI (which has since been edited).

Bill failed to fully understand the ins-and-outs of the clinic and the doctor's role based on his communication with them. 

So already we've had someone (not a naieve noob) struggle to fully grasp the doctors role in this clinic.

The question is what is more important for this site - finances or posting clear recommendations for users that don't involve reading fine print ( we recommend this doctor, but not the clinic he runs, and only one of the 3 packages they offer, and don't make the same mistake we did about his role in DHI 😬).

 

 

 

well said. couldn’t agree more. 

also, how do we know the level of involvement in the cases Bill posted in the original post? Did Cinik “do” these surgeries? or did his techs? I am not going to read through all and click each one to find out. It’s unfair to say Dr. Cinik did these surgeries if he only drew the hairline. 

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1 hour ago, Grouchy said:

If Dr Cinik is recommended, people are going to think the clinic as a whole is recommended.

This will happen, we know it will happen, we shouldn't pretend it won't.

Realistically, people are not going to read the fine print of what a recommendation entails and what the demarcation is.

When @Bill - Managing Publisher first posted this thread, he posted incorrect info about Cinik and DHI (which has since been edited).

Bill failed to fully understand the ins-and-outs of the clinic and the doctor's role based on his communication with them. 

So already we've had someone (not a naieve noob) struggle to fully grasp the doctors role in this clinic.

The question is what is more important for this site - finances or posting clear recommendations for users that don't involve reading fine print ( we recommend this doctor, but not the clinic he runs, and only one of the 3 packages they offer, and don't make the same mistake we did about his role in DHI 😬).

 

 

 

I find myself agreeing very much with Bill on the issue. I realise that I'm well educated and someone who enjoys researching for big ticket purchases, but if someone can't read the package details saying the surgeon isn't involved then I really don't see how they could blame anyone but themselves when the recommendation is clearly for Cinik and no the clinic. I also don't see any evidence that Bill misunderstood anything other than that Cinik wasn't involved in the surgical aspects of the DHI method. 

I genuinely don't understand the point, this website would recommend Cinik, if someone decides to get a procedure at the clinic and chooses a package where Cinik doesn't involve himself in any of the surgery, then what is the problem and how could they blame this on the forums recommendation? In what world does one assume people don't even read the major details (its not fine print) relating to a procedure when going to Turkey and spending thousands on surgery? This just seems totally outrageous to me.

The other fact is that if anyone has seen the significant amount of Cinik results across various forums (there is a huge number) they'd know that he is above average as an FUE surgeon than the majority of surgeons recommended here. He would absolutely not lower the standards of the website. In fact he'd undeniably be a fantastic option for people on a very tight budget that still feel they cannot deal with their hairloss situation and likely would help a significant number of these people who are trying to wade through the cheap options in Turkey. Better they're led to a genuine clinic that has a track record of good results.

I also find it wrong that no one here is focusing on results (again there are a huge number particularly on the international forum) but rather the "muh techs brah" meme which is truly meaningless and says virtually nothing about consistency or quality of the results. It also annoys me that some people are suggesting there could be huge issues arising out of this, well I've seen plenty of major NA surgeons have periods where literally 50% of their results turned out terrible and they weren't getting 1/5th of the patient posted results of Cinik, absolutely no one cares. Its so agitating the way people just ignore the risks or potential failures in hair transplant surgery from NA clinics but for a cheap Turkish clinic they act like a single bad result is the end of the world, that or ignore statistics and focus on raw numbers of bad results they can find.

I feel confident saying this because I've seen enough of his results to know that Cinik is doing better work than the average FUE procedure even from recommended American clinics on this site. I've also looked at the website, they're only using using the logos of various international boards and HT societies on the package in which Cinik is involved in and clearly aren't trying to hide or mislead on this so am sure they won't emphasise the HTN recommendation anywhere other than the package Cinik is involved in either. Ultimately I think a signifcant number of people will benefit from the recommendation. There are plenty of top-tier clinics for the wealthy or frivolous, work coming out of Ciniks clinic is above average even on this website and at the cheapest prices on the site gives a lot of people who couldn't have afforded a top-end clinic a safe option. 

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1 hour ago, JayLDD said:

In what world does one assume people don't even read the major details (its not fine print) relating to a procedure when going to Turkey and spending thousands on surgery? This just seems totally outrageous to me.

 

When I used the phrase "fine print", it was in relation to recommendations from this site - that a recommendation for a doctor isn't a recommendation for that doctor's clinic.

I don't have any issue with Cinik's site, although Bill seemed to have some difficulties understanding the package differences and how Cinik operates.

Oddly, the opening post in this thread still devotes an entire paragraph to outlining the DHI method - which Cinik has no involvement with. 

If the recommendation is for the doctor and not the clinic, why is space given to detailing the clinic's 'tech only' procedure?

Edited by Grouchy
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On 2/12/2019 at 8:38 PM, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

 Given Dr. Cinik’s training and experience in performing both state of the art FUE and DHI and providing only the best results, in my opinion, he should be considered for recommendation.

 

@Bill - Managing Publisher - the opening post still incorrectly says Dr Cinik performs DHI. He doesn't. Could you please correct this?

Could you also confirm that the Dr Cinik was involved in the surgery in all the threads you linked to as examples of his work?

 

Edited by Grouchy
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5 hours ago, JayLDD said:

I find myself agreeing very much with Bill on the issue. I realise that I'm well educated and someone who enjoys researching for big ticket purchases, but if someone can't read the package details saying the surgeon isn't involved then I really don't see how they could blame anyone but themselves when the recommendation is clearly for Cinik and no the clinic. I also don't see any evidence that Bill misunderstood anything other than that Cinik wasn't involved in the surgical aspects of the DHI method. 

I genuinely don't understand the point, this website would recommend Cinik, if someone decides to get a procedure at the clinic and chooses a package where Cinik doesn't involve himself in any of the surgery, then what is the problem and how could they blame this on the forums recommendation? In what world does one assume people don't even read the major details (its not fine print) relating to a procedure when going to Turkey and spending thousands on surgery? This just seems totally outrageous to me.

The other fact is that if anyone has seen the significant amount of Cinik results across various forums (there is a huge number) they'd know that he is above average as an FUE surgeon than the majority of surgeons recommended here. He would absolutely not lower the standards of the website. In fact he'd undeniably be a fantastic option for people on a very tight budget that still feel they cannot deal with their hairloss situation and likely would help a significant number of these people who are trying to wade through the cheap options in Turkey. Better they're led to a genuine clinic that has a track record of good results.

I also find it wrong that no one here is focusing on results (again there are a huge number particularly on the international forum) but rather the "muh techs brah" meme which is truly meaningless and says virtually nothing about consistency or quality of the results. It also annoys me that some people are suggesting there could be huge issues arising out of this, well I've seen plenty of major NA surgeons have periods where literally 50% of their results turned out terrible and they weren't getting 1/5th of the patient posted results of Cinik, absolutely no one cares. Its so agitating the way people just ignore the risks or potential failures in hair transplant surgery from NA clinics but for a cheap Turkish clinic they act like a single bad result is the end of the world, that or ignore statistics and focus on raw numbers of bad results they can find.

I feel confident saying this because I've seen enough of his results to know that Cinik is doing better work than the average FUE procedure even from recommended American clinics on this site. I've also looked at the website, they're only using using the logos of various international boards and HT societies on the package in which Cinik is involved in and clearly aren't trying to hide or mislead on this so am sure they won't emphasise the HTN recommendation anywhere other than the package Cinik is involved in either. Ultimately I think a signifcant number of people will benefit from the recommendation. There are plenty of top-tier clinics for the wealthy or frivolous, work coming out of Ciniks clinic is above average even on this website and at the cheapest prices on the site gives a lot of people who couldn't have afforded a top-end clinic a safe option. 

Well said brother!

"its not fine print"!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 


International Patient Advisor for Bisanga and Cole Hair Transplant Clinic - Athens, Greece

Consultation: https://bchairtransplant.com/online-consultation/  -  E-Mail:  bc2@bchairtransplant.com  -   WhatsApp - + 34 642 37 03 83

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Rahal

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14 hours ago, Grouchy said:

When I used the phrase "fine print", it was in relation to recommendations from this site - that a recommendation for a doctor isn't a recommendation for that doctor's clinic.

I don't have any issue with Cinik's site, although Bill seemed to have some difficulties understanding the package differences and how Cinik operates.

Oddly, the opening post in this thread still devotes an entire paragraph to outlining the DHI method - which Cinik has no involvement with. 

If the recommendation is for the doctor and not the clinic, why is space given to detailing the clinic's 'tech only' procedure?

Right, but people aren’t booking surgery through this forum, they’re doing it through the clinic website. When doing that, they will be guided through the various packages where the details are made clear  and the HTN logo is specifically shown for the package in which Cinik makes the incisions, as is currently the case with other references to HT societies etc.

I agree with you that maybe the DHI package shouldn’t be referred to other than to mention that Cinik is not involved in the surgical aspects of it.

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 Cinik makes claims about FUE on his website that I do not believe are true. For example, he calls FUE noninvasive. It’s not. He says there is no risk of nerve damage. It’s slight but it is real. He says FUE leaves no scars. It does. He says that FUE technique has 100% guarantee of success. It does not. I worry about this kind of aggressive marketing that glosses over real risk.

https://www.emrahcinik.com/fue-hair-transplantation/

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@Spaceman  I feel that although you make valid points, however they are simply a matter of translation.

FUE - Noninvasive. - Minimally invasive is a term often used in FUE procedures.

FUE - No Scars - As opposed to the lineal scar of FUT.

FUE - 100% Success - I agree should be reworded! It is the same as a "Growth Guarantee" from Rahal. The clinic will take responsibility for any grafts that do not grow!

I am English but live in Spain. Many official document translations are not quite as directly transferable as they are intended, and therefore read differently than the intention.

 


International Patient Advisor for Bisanga and Cole Hair Transplant Clinic - Athens, Greece

Consultation: https://bchairtransplant.com/online-consultation/  -  E-Mail:  bc2@bchairtransplant.com  -   WhatsApp - + 34 642 37 03 83

I am not a medical professional and my words should not be taken as medical advice. All opinions and views shared are my own.

My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Rahal

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I normally do not like to get involved with the politics of the hair industry. Dr. Cinik hires company to recruit patients that like to steal photos from other clinics.

http://www.eagle-travel.com/item/370/hair-transplant

You will see this link where a Hasson and Wong patient is used and stated that one of the two surgeons is Dr. Cinik, I have enclosed the screenshot,. 

 

rob.jpg

IMG_5597.PNG


Representative for Hasson & Wong.

 

Dr. Victor Hasson and Dr. Jerry Wong are esteemed members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

 

My opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of Hasson & Wong.

 

My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Hasson

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