If money was no issue (surgeon differences)

[bonkling]

Hi all, 

A bit of a hypothetical, but also may be applicable to some.

If money was no issue, and you could choose anyone, who would you choose? (With the exception of one's that have a 3-4 year wait).

It's so hard to pick a surgeon, because some in the US (Cooley, LA FUE clinic, H&W) have unreal results, but are so expensive.

Then, some like Cinik, Asmed, and so on also show great results, but have naysayers floating around.

I guess im wondering if the gap between the expensive, versus the medium is now smaller than it used to be, and if it's worth if overall.

Thanks everyone.

Edited January 22, 2019 by bonkling

[JayLDD]

For mid-large size procedures and happy to wait over a year for surgery, Freitas. For a mid-large sized procedure and a smaller waiting list, ASMED for FUE or HnW for FUT. For a small refinement or hairline procedure and ability to wait over a year, Konior or Keser.

The reality is the level of results in US are not unquestionably higher, people just tend to ignore small imperfections or bad results from US surgeons that they wouldn't elsewhere and drill the idea that technicians performing surgery is bad. Unconvinced that any in the US are a noticeable level above say a Feriduni, Freitas or Keser in Europe. 

Although Canadian, especially for FUT and high graft numbers where the price drops, HnW isn't what I would consider expensive though tbh. Very reasonable value. I think they also discount on future procedures.

No matter who you choose, I would go to a surgeon for whom you could afford more than one surgery with in the short term as very few get perfect results in a single pass and you're generally better off with more grafts and a second procedure than a surgeon who is already stretching the budget one a single run through.

[bonkling]

3 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

For mid-large size procedures and happy to wait over a year for surgery, Freitas. For a mid-large sized procedure and a smaller waiting list, ASMED for FUE or HnW for FUT. For a small refinement or hairline procedure and ability to wait over a year, Konior or Keser.

The reality is the level of results in US are not unquestionably higher, people just tend to ignore small imperfections or bad results from US surgeons that they wouldn't elsewhere and drill the idea that technicians performing surgery is bad. Unconvinced that any in the US are a noticeable level above say a Feriduni, Freitas or Keser in Europe. 

Although Canadian, especially for FUT and high graft numbers where the price drops, HnW isn't what I would consider expensive though tbh. Very reasonable value. I think they also discount on future procedures.

No matter who you choose, I would go to a surgeon for whom you could afford more than one surgery with in the short term as very few get perfect results in a single pass and you're generally better off with more grafts and a second procedure than a surgeon who is already stretching the budget one a single run through.

Thanks, Jean.

That makes a lot of sense. I'm from Australia, so I'm going to have to travel quite a bit regardless. 

Feriduni looks to have great results, and I hadn't heard of him before. Thanks a lot for the advice!

 

[1978matt]

Dr Laorwong in Thailand may be worth a look. 

[RecessionProof]

I asked myself the same question and it ultimately led me to book with Konior, even though he's one of the pricier surgeons out there.

You only get one hairline -- better to pay extra for something that will affect your appearance for the rest of your life (even if your hair continues to thin).

[Jamothee]

2 hours ago, RecessionProof said:

I asked myself the same question and it ultimately led me to book with Konior, even though he's one of the pricier surgeons out there.

You only get one hairline -- better to pay extra for something that will affect your appearance for the rest of your life (even if your hair continues to thin).

This is good advice. Hairlines can always be refined though, unless it's too low in which case it might be a bit harder. 

[bonkling]

Thanks for the advice, everyone. 

3 hours ago, RecessionProof said:

I asked myself the same question and it ultimately led me to book with Konior, even though he's one of the pricier surgeons out there.

You only get one hairline -- better to pay extra for something that will affect your appearance for the rest of your life (even if your hair continues to thin).

Dr. Konior seems to be a popular choice, even though he may be expensive. I don't think I've seen much other than good/great results on these forums. 

I may have a look into his clinic, too.

[bonkling]

4 hours ago, 1978matt said:

Dr Laorwong in Thailand may be worth a look. 

This was another option I had been considering. 

Especially seeing as the journey from Australia isn't as long. 

[Jamothee]

10 minutes ago, bonkling said:

This was another option I had been considering. 

Especially seeing as the journey from Australia isn't as long. 

Looking at this Dr's results on his website appears he is a bit hit n miss. Some great results, some meh.

[bonkling]

6 minutes ago, Jamothee said:

Looking at this Dr's results on his website appears he is a bit hit n miss. Some great results, some meh.

I was just looking at some results, too, and I agree. 

I've seen a couple of people not too happy also, more-so as time has gone on. 

Decisions decisions. 

[Kiwi Guy]

Hey man, I'm in the same boat as you, except I'm in New Zealand. I've done a lot of research the last 3 to 4 months, especially with the invaluable help from this forum and I would say there is a lot of variable to answer your question. If money were no option I'd probably go with Konior, but also are you ok with a 1 year waiting list and would you rather do FUT or FUE because some surgeons are better at one then the other. Our exchange rate for the US is crap at the moment also so that is something to consider.

[bonkling]

23 minutes ago, Kiwi Guy said:

Hey man, I'm in the same boat as you, except I'm in New Zealand. I've done a lot of research the last 3 to 4 months, especially with the invaluable help from this forum and I would say there is a lot of variable to answer your question. If money were no option I'd probably go with Konior, but also are you ok with a 1 year waiting list and would you rather do FUT or FUE because some surgeons are better at one then the other. Our exchange rate for the US is crap at the moment also so that is something to consider.

Hey mate, you're definitely correct. 

It's a hard question to summarise, especially when I don't really know what I'm asking, haha. It's hard being on one side of the world.

Most likely FUE dude, but ideally I would want the procedure this year. Yeah for sure, I've crunched some of the figures and they are pretty massive due to the Aussie dollar. 

 

[Jamothee]

6 hours ago, bonkling said:

Hey mate, you're definitely correct. 

It's a hard question to summarise, especially when I don't really know what I'm asking, haha. It's hard being on one side of the world.

Most likely FUE dude, but ideally I would want the procedure this year. Yeah for sure, I've crunched some of the figures and they are pretty massive due to the Aussie dollar. 

 

Have you considered Asmed? Overall good quality Fue results and a very short wait list. A few undesirable results but have always come to the table to offer a resolution as far as I've seen. 

[LonelyGraft]

This is a tough question as it’s my belief that one should choose a doctor based on their “speciality” and if you like their design work overall (this mainly applies to the hairline). Some docs excel at crown work such as Lorenzo and Wong. Some are hairline experts like rahal, keser, etc. 

 

some doctors easily knock out 5k+ grafts per session (asmed and hattingen) and some only do less than 1000 a day (keser) so it also depends on your needs.

 

theres a few other things to consider such as wait times and least importantly distance.

 

in the scenario where money is no issue and you’re a well informed patient going with a reputable/ethical doctor, I don’t think you can really go wrong as your maximizing your chances of success vs trying to bargain shop and take more risk 

[Sean]

11 hours ago, Jamothee said:

This is good advice. Hairlines can always be refined though, unless it's too low in which case it might be a bit harder. 

Hairlines may be able to be refined.  It depends on the ethics of the doctor.  It depends in the level of scar tissue a surgeon causes with creation of  high density recipient sites and so forth.  If there is ridging and cobblestoning it makes things scary and some docs recommend complete resection.  Lots of variables here.  

It is best to find a doctor that excels in the true art of lateral slit technique and places grafts safely with safer tools.  A lot of what you see online is misleading and misinformation.  There are folks that are not upfront and can decieve.  You really have to be careful and do your research also outside of forums by trying to find real patients you can meet up with.  

[Kiwi Guy]

On 1/23/2019 at 3:16 PM, bonkling said:

Hey mate, you're definitely correct. 

It's a hard question to summarise, especially when I don't really know what I'm asking, haha. It's hard being on one side of the world.

Most likely FUE dude, but ideally I would want the procedure this year. Yeah for sure, I've crunched some of the figures and they are pretty massive due to the Aussie dollar. 

 

Have you narrowed down the surgeons you are interested in?

[Jamothee]

19 hours ago, Sean said:

Hairlines may be able to be refined.  It depends on the ethics of the doctor.  It depends in the level of scar tissue a surgeon causes with creation of  high density recipient sites and so forth.  If there is ridging and cobblestoning it makes things scary and some docs recommend complete resection.  Lots of variables here.  

It is best to find a doctor that excels in the true art of lateral slit technique and places grafts safely with safer tools.  A lot of what you see online is misleading and misinformation.  There are folks that are not upfront and can decieve.  You really have to be careful and do your research also outside of forums by trying to find real patients you can meet up with.  

Well said. My first comment assumed that you go to a decent Dr in the first place (we all know the usual top 10 names) that uses the latest manual techniques and lateral slits.

[bonkling]

7 hours ago, Kiwi Guy said:

Have you narrowed down the surgeons you are interested in?

I was thinking about Cinik/Asmed, for a quicker turn-around, but also looking at Cooley, Feriduni, Konier. 

[bonkling]

On 1/23/2019 at 8:59 PM, jj51702 said:

This is a tough question as it’s my belief that one should choose a doctor based on their “speciality” and if you like their design work overall (this mainly applies to the hairline). Some docs excel at crown work such as Lorenzo and Wong. Some are hairline experts like rahal, keser, etc. 

 

some doctors easily knock out 5k+ grafts per session (asmed and hattingen) and some only do less than 1000 a day (keser) so it also depends on your needs.

 

theres a few other things to consider such as wait times and least importantly distance.

 

in the scenario where money is no issue and you’re a well informed patient going with a reputable/ethical doctor, I don’t think you can really go wrong as your maximizing your chances of success vs trying to bargain shop and take more risk 

Thanks for the info, mate. 

Mine is a receding issue, largely in the temples and the front. Crown and so on have had no loss so far.

Do you know of any doctors that are specialised in these areas?

[bonkling]

On 1/23/2019 at 9:51 PM, Sean said:

Hairlines may be able to be refined.  It depends on the ethics of the doctor.  It depends in the level of scar tissue a surgeon causes with creation of  high density recipient sites and so forth.  If there is ridging and cobblestoning it makes things scary and some docs recommend complete resection.  Lots of variables here.  

It is best to find a doctor that excels in the true art of lateral slit technique and places grafts safely with safer tools.  A lot of what you see online is misleading and misinformation.  There are folks that are not upfront and can decieve.  You really have to be careful and do your research also outside of forums by trying to find real patients you can meet up with.  

I see, I hadn't even considered it to this depth, thanks a lot man.

Are those techniques and tools, usually reserved for clinics where the surgeon does most/all of the work?

[brickellmoto]

On 1/22/2019 at 4:12 AM, JeanLDD said:

For mid-large size procedures and happy to wait over a year for surgery, Freitas. For a mid-large sized procedure and a smaller waiting list, ASMED for FUE or HnW for FUT. For a small refinement or hairline procedure and ability to wait over a year, Konior or Keser.

The reality is the level of results in US are not unquestionably higher, people just tend to ignore small imperfections or bad results from US surgeons that they wouldn't elsewhere and drill the idea that technicians performing surgery is bad. Unconvinced that any in the US are a noticeable level above say a Feriduni, Freitas or Keser in Europe. 

Although Canadian, especially for FUT and high graft numbers where the price drops, HnW isn't what I would consider expensive though tbh. Very reasonable value. I think they also discount on future procedures.

No matter who you choose, I would go to a surgeon for whom you could afford more than one surgery with in the short term as very few get perfect results in a single pass and you're generally better off with more grafts and a second procedure than a surgeon who is already stretching the budget one a single run through.

where do you rank Rahal and Gabel in this?

[mrmane85]

And Hattingen

[JayLDD]

On 1/25/2019 at 10:56 AM, brickellmoto said:

where do you rank Rahal and Gabel in this?

Both among top-tier clinics, particularly Rahal one of the best hairline surgeons in the world still. Neither has a lot of patient posted results at the moment which is the particular drawback I'd personally consider. 

[Markee]

On 1/26/2019 at 6:13 AM, JeanLDD said:

Both among top-tier clinics, particularly Rahal one of the best hairline surgeons in the world still. Neither has a lot of patient posted results at the moment which is the particular drawback I'd personally consider. 

Jean who do you think would be a safe alternative to ASMED to get the bulk FUE  and temple point work done then If needed refinement I could always go to like Rahal  or Keser 

[JayLDD]

4 hours ago, Markee said:

Jean who do you think would be a safe alternative to ASMED to get the bulk FUE  and temple point work done then If needed refinement I could always go to like Rahal  or Keser 

Honestly in your situation the main surgeons I would be considering are Erdogan or Hasson/Wong if you were inclined to go for FUT. Knowing your situation it is an issue of coverage, no one else is doing the huge FUE graft numbers I think best suit you in one go. I'd also definitely look at Lorenzo for FUE although I think he maxes out at 3000 grafts for one procedure, but you could do the crown/midscalp and hairline spread 6 months apart. He also has many cases on below average donors with people requiring extensive coverage.