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How to undo a hair transplant ASAP


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  • Senior Member
On 6/7/2019 at 2:32 PM, Nebulosity said:

I’m looking for some actual assessment. Yea I’m hoping it’s shock loss, but at this point from what I’ve been told by docs it’s kind of iffy as to how much will grow back. Facts and analysis are appreciated. I’ve read about shock loss. I’ve also seen that in cases where donor areas get destroyed, people are told on forums to just wait, that it will grow back, until it doesn’t. Also, a lot of people seem to suddenly show up who seem to spend a lot of time making those kinds of comments. So I’d appreciate it if you either brought some substance, or didn’t reiterate the “program” (wait 12 months assuming and not assessing, and then, and only then, start to worry).

The recipient area has been kept short until a few weeks ago. I’ll post pics soon.

So you are listening to docs who have told you its "kind of iffy as to how much will grow back". To you that might sound like a fact packed analysis but to me it doesn't. The simple answer is that only time will tell as to the severity of your shock loss. A logical, rational mind would understand this. But you just don't want to hear it. You've posted a bunch of low quality pics of a donor area with shock loss. What else do you expect people to say? Ridiculous.  

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I think it’s a bit unfair that we are telling op to not vent. If he’s not unhappy, that’s the way it is and he has the right to be unhappy and express it. Even if it’s early on in the process he doesn’t seem just to be concerned with his recipient growth. From the sounds of it (correct me if I’m wrong) he’s more worried about the potential of his donor not being harvested homogenously leading to an uneven look. So he’s not sure if it’s shock loss or improper harvesting. I hope he gets his answers soon and if it’s shock loss then chances are it will eventually return.

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2 hours ago, Baldrick101 said:

So you are listening to docs who have told you its "kind of iffy as to how much will grow back". To you that might sound like a fact packed analysis but to me it doesn't. The simple answer is that only time will tell as to the severity of your shock loss. A logical, rational mind would understand this. But you just don't want to hear it. You've posted a bunch of low quality pics of a donor area with shock loss. What else do you expect people to say? Ridiculous.  

Yes, actual opinions from top docs that it might be uneven extraction (as mentioned by the poster above) and not shock loss count for something. Iffy was my wording. If you think it really looks like shock loss, great. Maybe I misread you. 

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3 hours ago, Looking for HT said:

How is your recipient area now mate?

I’m guessing the yield is like 75%. Along the temple peaks it is maybe 90%, but in the front middle it is too sparse, and has been for the past few months while the other areas grew in. The left temple point is seriously thin.

While I was on the operating chair, after grafts had been extracted, Dr Bhatti drew the hairline on my recipient area and actually changed the design to implant further forward in front of my left temple point, saying he was making it symmetrical. What’s odd is that, although the left temple point was implanted further forward in front of native hair, he didn’t use more grafts on that side than the other. So unless I keep the sides really long, the left temple point will look obvious.54C56DFD-412C-4B40-A19B-A11D79D7A850.thumb.jpeg.b5a23dda0027f61b10e3fd7e5b7813a3.jpeg

See that? He should have implanted with enough density, or not brought the left temple so far forward. Even if every single one of the grafts grows in, it won’t even be 20% of my native density in front of the left temple point. What sheer idiocy.

6CEB3775-F273-401A-95B4-EC56DC879879.thumb.jpeg.47af95589f443e325ceb0dd82114ab36.jpeg

The right temple point doesn’t look good but it’s not obvious.

And by the way I’m getting it all reversed. The placement of the grafts, the sparseness, the patchy scarring in the donor area, are unacceptable. The grafts are pretty much all growing, and it is obviously too sparse. I only have two choices: go for another hair transplant and tap out my donor supply, or get it reversed. Dr Bhatti left me with no choice. I’ve already consulted top docs and it’s going to cost like 20-40k.

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1 hour ago, hairlossPA said:

how many months in are you again?

158 days. I can see by comparison to right after the transplant, that most of the follicles have grown in. By the way I remember your previous post where you seemed very concerned about being “fair” to the doctor by waiting exactly 12 months. I think that’s very wrong headed and I’m not interested in your comment.

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11 minutes ago, Nebulosity said:

158 days. I can see by comparison to right after the transplant, that most of the follicles have grown in. By the way I remember your previous post where you seemed very concerned about being “fair” to the doctor by waiting exactly 12 months. I think that’s very wrong headed and I’m not interested in your comment.

6 months of growth should give you enough idea of where you are headed. Just look at successful transplants, they look great by the 6 month mark and the donor is completely healed. We can talk about improvements if we've got a good base around the 6 month mark. 

Reps usually ask you wait for 12 months only to damage control. 

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1 minute ago, AltonMeyer said:

6 months of growth should give you enough idea of where you are headed. Just look at successful transplants, they look great by the 6 month mark and the donor is completely healed. We can talk about improvements if we've got a good base around the 6 month mark. 

Reps usually ask you wait for 12 months only to damage control. 

Thank you. I agree. Also, Dr Bhatti himself said that the hair should be mostly grown in by 6 months. I think my yield is not that bad, at least not as bad as it could have been. I need to live with this for at least another 6 months, so I’m hoping it looks sort of close to normal after another month or two of growth.

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On 5/23/2019 at 4:04 AM, Nebulosity said:

Bill,

You’re right that the doctor should answer my concerns regarding my donor area, which looks much worse than it should. Have you looked at the pictures above? I can’t wear the hair on the back of my head at anything shorter than a 3. At 4 and a half months. Should I be unconcerned? Please explain, because everything I’ve read, and everything I’ve heard from professionals, leads me to believe that what happened to my donor area is indeed something to be concerned about. Is there something inaccurate in what I just said?

Now, instead of acting like I’m the one being irrational, why don’t we focus on my donor area, and the fact that Dr Bhatti hasn’t addressed how damaged it appears to be, and refuses to provide images that his staff took of my scalp after the procedure.

So, is my concern about my donor area misguided? Is it normal for the donor area to be so depleted in such a pattern after 4 and a half months?

Your concerns aren't misguided and you will be proved absolutely correct by twelve months, as will I and those that asserted these various issues again. 

You're correct at 4 months, you were correct at 1 month, and you'll be right at a year. The problems are visible in the photos from day 1, anyone who has looked at a reasonable  amount of transplants can see them.

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4 hours ago, Nebulosity said:

I’m guessing the yield is like 75%. Along the temple peaks it is maybe 90%, but in the front middle it is too sparse, and has been for the past few months while the other areas grew in. The left temple point is seriously thin.

While I was on the operating chair, after grafts had been extracted, Dr Bhatti drew the hairline on my recipient area and actually changed the design to implant further forward in front of my left temple point, saying he was making it symmetrical. What’s odd is that, although the left temple point was implanted further forward in front of native hair, he didn’t use more grafts on that side than the other. So unless I keep the sides really long, the left temple point will look obvious.54C56DFD-412C-4B40-A19B-A11D79D7A850.thumb.jpeg.b5a23dda0027f61b10e3fd7e5b7813a3.jpeg

See that? He should have implanted with enough density, or not brought the left temple so far forward. Even if every single one of the grafts grows in, it won’t even be 20% of my native density in front of the left temple point. What sheer idiocy.

6CEB3775-F273-401A-95B4-EC56DC879879.thumb.jpeg.47af95589f443e325ceb0dd82114ab36.jpeg

The right temple point doesn’t look good but it’s not obvious.

And by the way I’m getting it all reversed. The placement of the grafts, the sparseness, the patchy scarring in the donor area, are unacceptable. The grafts are pretty much all growing, and it is obviously too sparse. I only have two choices: go for another hair transplant and tap out my donor supply, or get it reversed. Dr Bhatti left me with no choice. I’ve already consulted top docs and it’s going to cost like 20-40k.

Thats how they usually do the temple peaks for indians... doesnt look bad imo

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On 5/23/2019 at 6:43 PM, jonnyalex said:

Bill I completely respect the work you do here, but I do think Nebulosity has a point. I've not seen a HT look so bad after that amount of time. I have heard of slow growers, but the donor looking like this after months? That is not good, the extraction pattern looks bad. The recipient area also looks terrible after this amount of time. I have had a large HT and even though I wasn't happy with the hairline, both the donor and recipient looked drastically better than this after 3/4 months. If I put myself in his shoes, I would find it hard to walk around in public like this. I am always perplexed by Dr. Bhatti's gappy placement in the recipient area. Sometimes it seems to work, other times it doesn't. 

Nebulosity, what I will say is, a patient of whom I just had my second HT with, Dr Keser, was absolutely fuming and criticizing the doctor on every HT forum on the internet, had to backtrack and admit he was wrong after 6 months when the hair growth suddenly went into overdrive. So I also see where Bill is coming from. For some reason, different people react in completely different ways to this form of a plastic surgery. 

I really feel for you and I am extremely hopeful that in your case things suddenly change. I know it is isn't easy. Try and hold on until the 6/7 month point to get a real idea of where you are headed. Try to avoid mirrors until that point. 

 

Compare a post-op of ANY Bhatti case with ANY Keser case, if you think they're in the same league, or even on the same planet you need your eyes checked.

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On 6/9/2019 at 7:00 AM, jj51702 said:

I think it’s a bit unfair that we are telling op to not vent. If he’s not unhappy, that’s the way it is and he has the right to be unhappy and express it. Even if it’s early on in the process he doesn’t seem just to be concerned with his recipient growth. From the sounds of it (correct me if I’m wrong) he’s more worried about the potential of his donor not being harvested homogenously leading to an uneven look. So he’s not sure if it’s shock loss or improper harvesting. I hope he gets his answers soon and if it’s shock loss then chances are it will eventually return.

Everything Neb has brought up and expressed dissatisfaction about he has done so based on facts, that is key. There's a major difference between someone talking about growth issues at 4 months when the day 1 photos look perfect, compared to this case where the day 1s look around 50% of typical density from top surgeons.

Someone complaining or getting angry isn't what is relevant, its whether or not the concerns are legitimate, in this case they are and the complaints should be taken seriously. The density was clearly implanted well below acceptable levels, particularly with that ridiculously low hairline and the pushed forward temples. 

Absurd to consider this acceptable. On the donor issues, I think its plausible that it will improve, on whether or not the work is refined, thought through and an acceptable density for natural results, absolutely fucking not and its visible from the post ops.

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On 6/18/2019 at 6:11 PM, JayLDD said:

Compare a post-op of ANY Bhatti case with ANY Keser case, if you think they're in the same league, or even on the same planet you need your eyes checked.

Pretty bizarre how you concluded that from my entire post... why do you think I just had surgery with Keser? Frankly I would never have  surgery with Bhatti and even regret doing so with Erdogon. I feel both those surgeons should no longer be recommended here. I think its pretty clear he'll need a 2nd surgery with a much more skilled surgeon. 

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3 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

Pretty bizarre how you concluded that from my entire post... why do you think I just had surgery with Keser? Frankly I would never have  surgery with Bhatti and even regret doing so with Erdogon. I feel both those surgeons should no longer be recommended here. I think its pretty clear he'll need a 2nd surgery with a much more skilled surgeon. 

"Pretty bizarre how you concluded that from my entire post... why do you think I just had surgery with Keser?"

This was what you said and I replied to:

"Nebulosity, what I will say is, a patient of whom I just had my second HT with, Dr Keser, was absolutely fuming and criticizing the doctor on every HT forum on the internet, "

Read what you wrote before criticising me for not mind reading due to your lack of writing skills, I thought you had surgery with him because that's what you wrote, moron.

On the other point, I appreciate that you're not a particularly observant person, but lets compare post ops of Bhatti and a Keser case, because if you think the precision or density is similar your intelligence and understanding is two low to bother arguing with. Once the hairs are implanted you don't magically increase density from directly after post-op. What is done is done and in the case of much of Bhatti's work there is a lack of refinement and density from day one. Are the hairs going to duplicate themselves? Some kind of sorcery going on we aren't aware of? If a surgeon implant 100 hairs across an entire balding head, are you going to meme "Wait 12 months"? Or more realistically in terms of Bhatti's work, maybe 70% the density what top surgeons are typically doing.  We can't pretend this is going to magically look good after 12 months if it doesn't on day one.

Here is a Keser case of 1700 grafts

image.thumb.png.e073c095a32ab7ccfda2658bb8624e4f.png

Here is the Bhatti case 

image.thumb.png.06203f3f22cda5d0c163ba77ec18e581.png

 

Level of precision and density not even in the same league. Cut the "Wait 12 months" bullshit, looks like a child's work in comparison, the gaps are gigantic.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, JayLDD said:

"Pretty bizarre how you concluded that from my entire post... why do you think I just had surgery with Keser?"

This was what you said and I replied to:

"Nebulosity, what I will say is, a patient of whom I just had my second HT with, Dr Keser, was absolutely fuming and criticizing the doctor on every HT forum on the internet, "

Read what you wrote before criticising me for not mind reading due to your lack of writing skills, I thought you had surgery with him because that's what you wrote, moron.

On the other point, I appreciate that you're not a particularly observant person, but lets compare post ops of Bhatti and a Keser case, because if you think the precision or density is similar your intelligence and understanding is two low to bother arguing with. Once the hairs are implanted you don't magically increase density from directly after post-op. What is done is done and in the case of much of Bhatti's work there is a lack of refinement and density from day one. Are the hairs going to duplicate themselves? Some kind of sorcery going on we aren't aware of? If a surgeon implant 100 hairs across an entire balding head, are you going to meme "Wait 12 months"? Or more realistically in terms of Bhatti's work, maybe 70% the density what top surgeons are typically doing.  We can't pretend this is going to magically look good after 12 months if it doesn't on day one.

Here is a Keser case of 1700 grafts

image.thumb.png.e073c095a32ab7ccfda2658bb8624e4f.png

Here is the Bhatti case 

image.thumb.png.06203f3f22cda5d0c163ba77ec18e581.png

 

Level of precision and density not even in the same league. Cut the "Wait 12 months" bullshit, looks like a child's work in comparison, the gaps are gigantic.

 

 

Yes. I was temporarily in a poor state of mind when I made the decision to get a HT with Bhatti. He is so incompetent, and yet so bizarrely and annoying arrogant. The Dunning-Kruger effect is strong in him. The way he is pushed on this site as producing “fantastic” results or whatever is just absurd. My donor area is all messed up still, and frankly I don’t believe the doctor’s graft count. I think he lied about that, among other things. Maybe they extracted/transected 2369, and implanted 1800 or so. Sparsely. I think the main reason Bhatti is “recommended” is that the HT business is not very big in India. Objectively, Bhatti is not a competent doctor and no one should even remotely consider letting him cut into them. But he is available and the forum needs someone in India fo recommend.

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25 minutes ago, JayLDD said:

"Pretty bizarre how you concluded that from my entire post... why do you think I just had surgery with Keser?"

This was what you said and I replied to:

"Nebulosity, what I will say is, a patient of whom I just had my second HT with, Dr Keser, was absolutely fuming and criticizing the doctor on every HT forum on the internet, "

Read what you wrote before criticising me for not mind reading due to your lack of writing skills, I thought you had surgery with him because that's what you wrote, moron.

On the other point, I appreciate that you're not a particularly observant person, but lets compare post ops of Bhatti and a Keser case, because if you think the precision or density is similar your intelligence and understanding is two low to bother arguing with. Once the hairs are implanted you don't magically increase density from directly after post-op. What is done is done and in the case of much of Bhatti's work there is a lack of refinement and density from day one. Are the hairs going to duplicate themselves? Some kind of sorcery going on we aren't aware of? If a surgeon implant 100 hairs across an entire balding head, are you going to meme "Wait 12 months"? Or more realistically in terms of Bhatti's work, maybe 70% the density what top surgeons are typically doing.  We can't pretend this is going to magically look good after 12 months if it doesn't on day one.

Here is a Keser case of 1700 grafts

image.thumb.png.e073c095a32ab7ccfda2658bb8624e4f.png

Here is the Bhatti case 

image.thumb.png.06203f3f22cda5d0c163ba77ec18e581.png

 

Level of precision and density not even in the same league. Cut the "Wait 12 months" bullshit, looks like a child's work in comparison, the gaps are gigantic.

 

25 minutes ago, JayLDD said:

 

 

 

I honestly think you should be banned from here, any time someone says something you don't like, you get really aggressive and resort to name calling; I've seen it multiple times with you. I never called you any names..

You talk about intelligence yet attack me multiple times in your reply. I simply told him to give it 6 months and then go from there. Yes, the result is going to be bad, clearly it is. In six months however, I feel he will know what is required in a second surgery. 

I am quite clearly asking you 'why do you think I would have gone with Dr Keser if I thought his work was at Dr. Bhatti's level?' I mean, I'm reading it again and it's not hard at all to work out. 

 

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1 minute ago, jonnyalex said:

 

 

I honestly think you should be banned from here, any time someone says something you don't like, you get really aggressive and resort to name calling; I've seen it multiple times with you. I never called you any names..

You talk about intelligence yet attack me multiple times in your reply. I simply told him to give it 6 months and then go from there. Yes, the result is going to be bad, clearly it is. In six months however, I feel he will know what is required in a second surgery. 

I am quite clearly asking you 'why do you think I would have gone with Dr Keser if I thought his work was at Dr. Bhatti's level?' I mean, I'm reading it again and it's not hard at all to work out. 

 

Hey @jonnyalex, yea there was a misunderstanding, but this is a forum and that happens. If we all met in person I bet we’d generally agree on the relative competence of both of the doctors mentioned. Lets not suggest banning people who are brave enough to criticize “recommended” doctors. We need people like that. Yea at this point I’m certain that Bhatti messed up my scalp. Thanks for making me a repair candidate Dr. Bhatti! (TM)

But I value your and and @JayLDD‘s input. You’re both real, honest, and not shills, and so neither one of you should be banned in any circumstance.

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18 minutes ago, Nebulosity said:

Thanks for making me a repair candidate Dr. Bhatti! (TM)

Nebulosity, I want you to know that although it is difficult at this time, it is very repairable with a skilled surgeon such as Keser. It will cost you a little more, yes, but I believe you'll be happy with it after that. I really think you should be refunded the cost of this surgery too. I think it will look slightly better in a month or two, but not acceptable by any means. 

I agree with JayLDD about the gappy placement. I have always questioned this approach. The donor extraction is also completely unacceptable. 

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1 minute ago, jonnyalex said:

Nebulosity, I want you to know that although it is difficult at this time, it is very repairable with a skilled surgeon such as Keser. It will cost you a little more, yes, but I believe you'll be happy with it after that. I really think you should be refunded the cost of this surgery too. 

Thanks. I appreciate that. I think this is repairable, although the loss of grafts is not reversible. I’m trying to gauge how much I should focus on repairing the donor area, and how much on fixing the recipient area. I’m going to try to get a refund, but based on conversations with past Bhatti victims, they were refused refunds. Also, I’ve been told by others that Dr. Bhatti repeatedly lied about and flip flopped on various issues. Dr. Bhatti sent me an email telling me that I had “grossly misrepresented my experience” or some such nonsense and (long ago) claimed he would reply in the forums. I’m pretty sure he would never refund me, although I do deserve a refund and have been completely honest about my experience.

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@JayLDD

You can make your point without name calling. You may disagree with how someone feels about your surgeon without resorting to name calling.


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3 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

 

 

I honestly think you should be banned from here, any time someone says something you don't like, you get really aggressive and resort to name calling; I've seen it multiple times with you. I never called you any names..

You talk about intelligence yet attack me multiple times in your reply. I simply told him to give it 6 months and then go from there. Yes, the result is going to be bad, clearly it is. In six months however, I feel he will know what is required in a second surgery. 

I am quite clearly asking you 'why do you think I would have gone with Dr Keser if I thought his work was at Dr. Bhatti's level?' I mean, I'm reading it again and it's not hard at all to work out. 

 

You'll come to realise that @JayLDD is extremely sensitive, and ultimately defensive when it comes to even the most innocuous of statements.

His lack of control is a testament to his short-comings, not yours, so I wouldn't take it to heart. He's simply an angry little man that types big paragraphs on the internet, nothing more :)

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Well I certainly am thankful for people like Melvin and many others in this community who genuinely are here to help others regardless of how their procedures turned out.

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I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk.

Supporting Physicians: Dr. Robert Dorin: The Hairloss Doctors in New York, NY

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