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P. S. I have seen the results up close and in person, including the donor area. This is one of those things, the big secret in the industry. As I said the robot has very real limitations.

One thing to consider and if I'm wrong please do correct me… But ARTAS is only FDA cleared for one patient/hair type?? However, is it being used across the board??

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I have never heard and quite frankly don't believe it is legal in the USA for someone without a MD to do FUE.  I thought the incisions and extractions constituted cutting and opening the body and therefore was only allowed to be done by a licensed physician. Is this not true?  

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@Melvin-Moderator

It's not about… for example… doctor vs. technician extracting. Dr. has 20 years experience… Technician has 20 years experience. Both can (with proper training) achieve a low transection rate. In both cases it boils down to experience. 

The issue is the limitations of the robot...

I'll give just one example…

- Donor management has a number of benefits including maximizing the number of lifetime grafts and appearance of the donor area.

In my opinion... and from every doctor I have spoken to... the robot can't achieve partial transection, maximizing the appearance of the donor area. That's an important tactic. Though I'll concede it's an advanced tactic used by only a few FUE specialists.  

- Another is (from what I understand) the robot can't harvest the entire safe zone… Putting the patient at risk of over harvesting.

If I'm wrong… I encourage any doctor who uses ARTAS to come forward and defend your position. Let's have an open and honest discussion. I have a number of questions I want to ask… And we can let guys on the form decide if they should be using the robot or not.

I'm still waiting for that to happen.

 

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Honestly, I feel I see more good results from budget transplant surgeons than terrible results. Actually, my top 3 worst results I have seen by a budget transplant surgeon is one which is recommended on here....

With the amount of guys getting HT's these days, particularly in turkey and particularly from "cheap" clinics, I'd expect there to be much more of an outcry about it, much more terrible results being posted. I've researched and waited for years to go for my HT, always anticipating a tidal wave of horror stories...it's never emerged. 

In my opinion, there are too many non HT surgeons trying to make money through HT surgery, principally by appearing like experts whilst pedalling more expensive clinics. Clearly, there are bad surgeons and terrible practices in this industry, nobody doubts that. But this "high price transplant fettish" doesn't hold up to what we're seeing. 

If the surgery involves an experienced Dr designing the hairline, creating the insertions and coordinating an experienced team of techs, the results appear generally good - whether that's 1700 euro surgery or 35000. Keen to hear answers and other opinions. I've been around here and other forums long enough to have a degree of confidence in what I say above.

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Posted (edited)
Quote

I feel I see more good results from budget transplant surgeons than terrible results.

Maybe we need to be clear on "budget"... Note: I'm not taking about Turkish doctor's like Dr. Koray for example...he does good work...and is not budget. He can (and does charge) comparable to $5-$6 CAD graft because he can. 

I'm talking about these $2000 clinics popping up all over Turkey. Not a chance you can get the same result as Wong Rahal, Shapiro, Koray with these hacks. 

Quote

With the amount of guys getting HT's these days, particularly in turkey and particularly from "cheap" clinics, I'd expect there to be much more of an outcry about it, much more terrible results being posted. I've researched and waited for years to go for my HT, always anticipating a tidal wave of horror stories...it's never emerged.

Research a little more :) I know first hand that "repair cases" make up 10-30% of north american clinics now, mostly fixing botched jobs from Turkey. It's so bad that doctors describe it as a "wave of bad results." 

Just last week I met a kid who spent $2000 on a budget clinic only to get botched. He has NO options. What can he do? Sue the doc in Turkey? Guys need to know that.

A good read...

In Turkey’s cutthroat hair-transplant tourism industry, the biggest losers are the patients and Syrian refuges, https://qz.com/954680/in-turkeys-cutthroat-hair-transplant-tourism-industry-the-biggest-losers-are-the-patients-and-syrian-refugees/

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In my opinion, there are too many non HT surgeons trying to make money through HT surgery, principally by appearing like experts whilst pedalling more expensive clinics.  

100% agree!

Edited by HairLossMentor

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Drs Cinik, Karadeniz, Yaman, Civas, Saifi....

Elithair, Smile clinic.... 

All much under prices of established surgeons, all posting fantastic results....

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Posted (edited)

Civas is $5-6 CAD graft. That's not budget. A few of the others don't even have results posted. A simple Google search weeds out a few others. 

Guys. If you read this thread...PLEASE do a detailed Google search, plus meet patients in person. PLEASE. Don't risk it. It's a one shot deal...get it wrong and your donor is shot. Then you're forced to live with a shitty result for the result of your life. Meet patients in person. Don't trust photos, even videos can be misleading. Meet patients in person.

Edited by HairLossMentor

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Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, HairLossMentor said:

Civas is $5-6 CAD graft. That's not budget. A few of the others don't even have results posted. A simple Google search weeds out a few others. 

Guys. If you read this thread...PLEASE do a detailed Google search, plus meet patients in person. PLEASE. Don't risk it. It's a one shot deal...get it wrong and your donor is shot. Then you're forced to live with a shitty result for the result of your life. Meet patients in person. Don't trust photos, even videos can be misleading. Meet patients in person.

100% agree. Don't trust photos. 

Edited by chicago2017
Editing

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Hi guys,

That's interesting - hadn't realised Civas prices had gone up. I am curious though as to the google search results for the others - I'm not finding anything too negative about them, aside from Cinik and Yaman, both of whom are approved here. Maybe it's my search, could you please provide some links if there's anything glaring you've found? Of particular interest is the Smile Clinic currently - they don't seem as much of a hair mill as Cinik, for example.

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On 1/7/2019 at 11:09 AM, HairLossMentor said:

-grafts were taken outside the safe zone, meaning they are not resistant to DHT and he will lose them as his hair loss gets worse

- a large punch, most likely 1 mm was used. I doubt this poor guy is able to get a second procedure after this

- there is no donor management, they just harvested as many grafts as possible.

While FUE scarring is a problem… The real problem is not having enough grafts when your hair loss progresses. A lot of guys won't discover this until it's too late. Even after thousand grafts, when done wrong, FUE can destroy you donor area. FUE has been hijacked by amateur hair transplant doctors, with little desire to learn how to do it correctly… This is a great example of it.

I wave of unhappy patients is coming… This is worse than the 90s and the era of plugs. Much worse.

It's not worse than the era of plugs, not even close. No need for hyperbole, because back in the plug/minigraft era, you often had no options for repair. Today you have multiple options for repair.

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Today you have multiple options for repair.

I wish that was the case. Sadly, when done wrong FUE destroys your donor area. You have no options, except to shave your head and laser out what grafts survived. Then most guys get smp for FUE scars. I see this all the time. 

And here is the thing...hair transplants are MUCH more mainstream now than before. We're talking BILLIONS... a mass wave of guys who think all hair transplants are created equal...and all doctors are equal.

Take a look at the example I provided...it's from a well-know site. How long do you think that result would last here?  This poor guy is screwed. He just does not know it yet. Wait a few more years when he need a second hair transplant. 

A wave of unhappy patients is coming! It's not if...but when. 

Edited by HairLossMentor

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