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CatsMeow83

Seeking Advice: Erdogan FUE vs. Rahal FUE vs. Rahal FUT (Pics Included)

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My Situation:

35 y/o American with frontal balding and thinning, and moderately receding hairline (see included pics).  The loss and thinning began 10 years ago and happened fairly quickly; however, the loss and thinning has slowed significantly in recent years.  Hair is thick and coarse throughout (it typically has to be thinned out on the sides when I get a haircut), with the exception of the frontal area.  

I have had 3 consults; all confirm eligibility for FUT and/or FUE and recommend placement of 2,500-3,000 grafts.  My available donor hair is more than sufficient to cover expected future needs.  I have some family history of frontal baldness on maternal side, but no history of complete baldness or other extreme Norwood cases.  

Post-procedure, I will do Finasteride + Rogaine.  I used Propecia previously with no side effects.  Due to an existing scar on the back of my head, I never cut my hair short (so an FUT scar would not be a huge problem for me).  No prior hair transplants.

My Goals:

Looking for an aggressive approach to restoring my hairline and adding some density to the front and temple areas in hopes of replacing some of the frontal hair loss I have experienced.  Hoping to bring down my existing hairline just a little bit - maybe 1-2 centimeters below the center point of my current hairline.  I have a high forehead to begin with, so I should be able to bring down my current hairline a little bit without creating something that looks artificial or age inappropriate.

My Options:

A few doctors seem to be known for this type of aggressive hairline work, and I have narrowed it down to two of them: Erdogan (Turkey) and Rahal (Canada).  To that end, here are my 3 options (costs in USD, inclusive of projected travel expenses):  

1.  Erdogan FUE

     2,500-3,000 Grafts; $8,000 - $9,300

2.  Rahal FUE

     2,500-3,000 Grafts; $11,000 - $14,200

3.  Rahal FUT

     2,500-3,000 Grafts; $8,200 - $10,600

My Questions:

Which of these 3 options would you all recommend?  Specifically, what are your thoughts, re: FUT vs. FUE for my situation?  And what are your thoughts, re: Erdogan vs. Rahal for FUE procedure?

Rahal seems to be the undisputed king of FUT, so if I go the FUT route, then I’m definitely going with him.  On the FUE side, he also seems to be top tier.  Rahal tells me his FUE procedure is giving him substantially the same graft yield and overall result as his FUT procedure.  He is saying that the cost savings are really the only advantage of the FUT route at this point.  For me, the cost savings are not a material factor, and I wouldn’t go with a more invasive FUT procedure simply to save a few grand.  BUT, I would absolutely go the FUT route if I thought it would yield a better result.

As for the Erdogan vs. Rahal debate if I go with FUE, I am leaning towards Rahal, but would love to hear you guys’ opinion of the two.  My main concern with Erdogan, which has been voiced several times recently on this forum, is his lack of personal involvement in the procedure.  Specifically, the fact that Erdogan may be running 4 surgeries simultaneously each day is a concern for me.  I understand the nature of this procedure, and I don’t expect the doctor to plant every hair (I’m sure Rahal doesn’t do that either), but some of what I am hearing on this forum about Erdogan’s operation procedure gives me pause.  That said, Erdogan has published some impressive results, and his expertise in the FUE field is obviously beyond question.

What do you guys think?  I would appreciate any insights or random thoughts that you may have on any of these issues.

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20 minutes ago, John Doe said:

This is where I’m at and my dilemma. Interested to hear responses 

Yeah - it seems like hairline restoration work is an animal of its own in the hair transplant world.  Like I said in my post, Erdogan and Rahal are the names that keep coming up in terms of aggressive hairline treatments.  I also hear good things about Hasson & Wong.  I am considering doing a consult with those guys as well, although they will be on the high end of the cost spectrum (about 20% more expensive than Rahal).

Hopefully we will get some advice from the guys on this forum.

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9 hours ago, CatsMeow83 said:

After I did lengthy research and met with several surgeons and patients, I narrowed my choices down to Dr. Konior and Dr. Bisanga. Konior does exceptional FUT hairline work — one of, if not the best, in my opinion. Soft, natural hairlines. Bisanga is primarily (if not all) FUE, but his hairlines are exceptional as well. On par with Konior's. You will have to wait a considerable amount of time for Konior and he may cost quite a bit more than the prices you've been quoted. But I had my FUT with him 5 years ago so I don't know what his price for that is now. Good luck in your journey. 

 


3,425 FUT grafts with Dr Raymond Konior - Nov 2013

1,600 FUE grafts with Dr Raymond Konior - Dec 2018

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Posted (edited)

You couldn’t go wrong with Rahal. He certainly isn’t doing 6 procedures per day. But he also doesn’t do the extractions himself. His results are amazing and the videos he puts on youtube are top notch. he is also the king of hairlines. 

 

personally, when i eventually get to the point of getting a HT, I want to feel special and just not another patient on a conveyor belt. I will be scheduling with someone more personable and involved in the process. 

if you had much more worse hair loss, I would suggest going to Erdogan solely for the fact that he can move a ton of grafts in one FUE sitting, but you don’t. This looks like a case that is right up Rahal’s alley

Edited by hairlossPA

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12 hours ago, Rawkerboi said:

You couldn't go wrong with Dr Hasson too, especially if you are considering FUT.

I second this

i wasn’t dissimilar to OP, in fact he has a better starting point, I went with hasson and I’m invtedibly happy, here’s some recent pics on this page

 

 

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Definitely Rahal over Erdogan when it comes to the recent results I have seen. No surgeon is without their risk of average results though so it's an estimated guess even then.

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I'm strongly considering taking the plunge with Rahal sometime this year but for all his popularity I see very few resent results from him and next to none resent real life user reviews.  Here and there we get some posting from one of his associates  showing some ad based amazing before and after pictures or video posting but never see anything but his best 

Just saying for the volume of patients this guy has I think there' should  be and wish there was more real user reviews around to help me feel confidence to go with  him is all 

 

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22 minutes ago, Markee said:

I'm strongly considering taking the plunge with Rahal sometime this year but for all his popularity I see very few resent results from him and next to none resent real life user reviews.  Here and there we get some posting from one of his associates  showing some ad based amazing before and after pictures or video posting but never see anything but his best 

Just saying for the volume of patients this guy has I think there' should  be and wish there was more real user reviews around to help me feel confidence to go with  him is all 

 

i’ve noticed rahal posting slow down as well starting at the beginning of 2018. but just because they don’t have patient results doesn’t mean they’re not top notch. how many konior patient posts do we see? either way, rahal is top. i hope the best for you once you make the jump 

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How aggressive are you trying to be? I think ultimately you may end up a norwood 5 down the line.  I can see the pattern developing with wet hair. Now, I’m not saying don’t rebuild and lower the hairline, but I wouldn’t go ultra-aggressive, as you’re gonna want to save some grafts for future loss. 

 

200BE6D6-3F2A-4C8B-966F-0918D3485C87.jpeg


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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57 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

How aggressive are you trying to be? I think ultimately you may end up a norwood 5 down the line.  I can see the pattern developing with wet hair. Now, I’m not saying don’t rebuild and lower the hairline, but I wouldn’t go ultra-aggressive, as you’re gonna want to save some grafts for future loss. 

 

200BE6D6-3F2A-4C8B-966F-0918D3485C87.jpeg

I second this, that’s why I said it reminded me of my hair loss pattern, hopefully with meds you’ll get to keep most of it though 

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Posted (edited)
On 1/3/2019 at 1:02 AM, Rawkerboi said:

You couldn't go wrong with Dr Hasson too, especially if you are considering FUT.

I decided to get a consult with H&W as well before I make up my mind.  They are a good bit more expensive than Rahal, so I doubt I will go with them unless they really convince me that they are bringing something to the table that Rahal is not.  But who knows . . . they may dazzle me.  Plus, Vancouver is definitely a more appealing place than Ottowa to spend a week during the dead of winter.

Edited by CatsMeow83

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20 hours ago, Aftermath said:

I second this

i wasn’t dissimilar to OP, in fact he has a better starting point, I went with hasson and I’m invtedibly happy, here’s some recent pics on this page

Man . . . your results really are fantastic.  Inspired me to go ahead and get that H&W consult before I make my decision.

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13 hours ago, Markee said:

I'm strongly considering taking the plunge with Rahal sometime this year but for all his popularity I see very few resent results from him and next to none resent real life user reviews.  Here and there we get some posting from one of his associates  showing some ad based amazing before and after pictures or video posting but never see anything but his best 

 Just saying for the volume of patients this guy has I think there' should  be and wish there was more real user reviews around to help me feel confidence to go with  him is all 

 

I wish there more case studies as well.  I noticed he (or someone at his clinic) posted a handful of new results a couple weeks ago, and they were all pretty solid.  This whole process is nerve racking, because no matter which clinic you are looking at, their published case studies are showcasing their successes.  We all know that every doctor has bad outcomes we're not seeing. 

For Rahal, I get some comfort from the fact that very few people have negative opinions of his work (the same seems to be true for H&W).  If he had a lot of bad outcomes, there is no doubt that at least some of those disgruntled folks would find their way here or to some other forum, and be bitching up a storm.

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Aftermaths results are a dream. Definitely inspiring. You’re doing the right thing consulting with several doctors.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

How aggressive are you trying to be? I think ultimately you may end up a norwood 5 down the line.  I can see the pattern developing with wet hair. Now, I’m not saying don’t rebuild and lower the hairline, but I wouldn’t go ultra-aggressive, as you’re gonna want to save some grafts for future loss. 

 

200BE6D6-3F2A-4C8B-966F-0918D3485C87.jpeg

I'm not getting too aggressive.  Mostly keeping the hairline at the current low point in the center of my head, and filling in the temples and density.  If I do go any lower with the hairline, it would only be maybe 1 cm, if that.  If I end up on the highest end of the estimated range and get 3,000 grafts this time around, I still have 4-5K left. 

The hair loss you are seeing here happened over the course of 10+ years, and for the last 3 or 4 years, the loss and thinning has pretty much stopped.  But like you said, I could end up with a Norwood 5 down the road, although that would be the first Norwood 5 on either side of my family.  My hope is that if I do continue to experience new hair loss, that it will happen relatively slowly, so that by the time I get to a Norwood 5, the treatment won't even require native donor hair. 

EDIT: Also, definitely getting on Propecia as well, so hopefully that will help slow down any new hair loss that might decide to kick up again.  Fingers will be crossed.

Edited by CatsMeow83

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@CatsMeow83 thank you, honestly, H&W are worth the extra money, feel free to inbox me as I think I have a couple of insights you may find interesting 

 

@Melvin-Moderator thanks mate, right back at you, with where you came from and with FUE only your results are equally as impressive! 

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29 minutes ago, CatsMeow83 said:

I wish there more case studies as well.  I noticed he (or someone at his clinic) posted a handful of new results a couple weeks ago, and they were all pretty solid.  This whole process is nerve racking, because no matter which clinic you are looking at, their published case studies are showcasing their successes.  We all know that every doctor has bad outcomes we're not seeing. 

For Rahal, I get some comfort from the fact that very few people have negative opinions of his work (the same seems to be true for H&W).  If he had a lot of bad outcomes, there is no doubt that at least some of those disgruntled folks would find their way here or to some other forum, and be bitching up a storm.

There have been many of them, especially around late 2016-2017 there were a lot of poor growth cases including some prominent posters with issues including one with a botched donor after under 2000 grafts. I had someone PM me about some density issues on one side and graft angles being off literally a few days ago (although the case was done many years ago). Another recent poster here is still only at 6 months roughly but says he sees very little growth. I think you're mixing up how loudly someone complains (Like Payam) vs how many problem cases there are. I know saying this sounds overly negative, but I find it incredible how some people are masters of finding problems with one surgeon but apparently forget how to do a basic Google search with others.

Tbh I would also recommend HnW.

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4 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

There have been many of them, especially around late 2016-2017 there were a lot of poor growth cases including some prominent posters with issues including one with a botched donor after under 2000 grafts. I had someone PM me about some density issues on one side and graft angles being off literally a few days ago (although the case was done many years ago). Another recent poster here is still only at 6 months roughly but says he sees very little growth. I think you're mixing up how loudly someone complains (Like Payam) vs how many problem cases there are. I know saying this sounds overly negative, but I find it incredible how some people are masters of finding problems with one surgeon but apparently forget how to do a basic Google search with others.

Tbh I would also recommend HnW.

Look, no matter which way you slice it, this is a very gray industry and the due diligence process is tough.  Not only does everyone have an opinion, but you have to parse which opinions are real and legitimate, and which are being pushed by shills or other folks with a vested interest (or other tangible bias).  The international aspect of this industry only further complicates the decision making process. 

Digging through it all is hardly a science.  You just have to make a judgment call based on the weight of the evidence, as you see it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CatsMeow83 said:

Look, no matter which way you slice it, this is a very gray industry and the due diligence process is tough.  Not only does everyone have an opinion, but you have to parse which opinions are real and legitimate, and which are being pushed by shills or other folks with a vested interest (or other tangible bias).  The international aspect of this industry only further complicates the decision making process. 

Digging through it all is hardly a science.  You just have to make a judgment call based on the weight of the evidence, as you see it.

Sounds like he's just trying to steer you in the right direction. I had gotten in touch with Rahal's clinic and spoke to his rep when I was researching doctors for my first procedure, but as I dug a little deeper I had started to see enough negative results/experiences that I ultimately eliminated him from my list. Again, good luck in your search. 

Edited by Since21
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3,425 FUT grafts with Dr Raymond Konior - Nov 2013

1,600 FUE grafts with Dr Raymond Konior - Dec 2018

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14 minutes ago, Since21 said:

Sounds like he's just trying to steer you in the right direction. I had gotten in touch with Rahal's clinic and spoke to his rep when I was researching doctors for my first procedure, but as I dug a little deeper I had started to see enough negative results/experiences that I ultimately eliminated him from my list. Again, good luck in your search. 

Yeah - it appears I may be following your same path.  Based on some of the feedback I'm getting here, and after hearing more about AfterMath's incredible experience with Hasson, it seems like Hasson is probably the better play.  I have a consult on the books with H&W for next week, so I am eager to see what they have to say.  Now all I have to decide is whether to go FUT or FUE.  

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I’ve read a lot of great things about Hasson and Wong, as well as Rahal. This thread has me second guessing Rahal 

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Just now, John Doe said:

I’ve read a lot of great things about Hasson and Wong, as well as Rahal. This thread has me second guessing Rahal 

You should second guess all the HT surgeons you're considering and go from there... 


3,425 FUT grafts with Dr Raymond Konior - Nov 2013

1,600 FUE grafts with Dr Raymond Konior - Dec 2018

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Guys,

There is no perfect surgeon. Dr. Hasson has had negative reviews every surgeon has had less than stellar results or reviews. It’s important to speak with happy and unhappy patients. 


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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