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Posted (edited)
On 4/28/2020 at 7:53 PM, ruca2 said:

I would seriously reconsider going through with this plan. So, without Finasteride you're going to continue to thin. In fact, implanting in between existing hair can exacerbate the loss of surrounding native hair. You could actually permanently shock out some of your native from the trauma of surgery. Your net gain wouldn't be very noticeable. Dr Diep extracts very high in the donor and what could be considered out of the safe zone. I don't believe you would have another 1000 left after getting 2000 from him now. Your donor already looks very thin. Dr. Diep uses a 1 mm punch and he doesn't particularly take a sensible approach to donor harvesting. He doesn’t extract uniformly and wherever he extracts from is going to be thin. You probably won't be able to keep your sides as short as you have them in the most current pictures. Just be careful man this is a slippery slope.

This.

I just skimmed this entire thread and holy crap. OP, no offense but you are too shallow and suffer from body dysphoria.  Rather than going for more surgeries you should go seek medical help and maybe invest in a therapist. 

Whats the point of all this? Getting a female? There a millions of great girls that will over look your hair loss. You have a great attractive face and instead of spending the majority of your 20's and early 30's having fun, traveling, etc. You are saving more money for more surgeries that will never ever be enough. Just stop this. Everyone has insecurities and flaws. 

There has to be something in your life that makes you more happy than trying to look more attractive. And if there isn't, I feel sorry for you. You're happiness from seeking approval from others will just just make you regret everything that you've done up to this point. 

Edited by stephcurry30
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Erdogan loves using high graft numbers because they know at least half will grow so can say there was some iporovement in most cases.   Not much consideration is given into future loss just

I had 4600 grafts in 2015, I can provide you photos if you wish via PM. Even if I wasn't,  I don't see the relevance. This forum was the sole reason I went there, the results being posted at the time

don't worry ...I have shown my pics on here at 5 months  where the growth was starting to be noticeable  because a lot of guys were freaking out about their growth at 5 months ..I will look and see if

Posted Images

Hi, so I have had a look at your results and I have to say that I do not think it was appropriate for Dr Erdogan to transplant 5000 grafts for you.  Do you have any top-down pics before your op with dry hair? 

From what I've seen of Dr Erdogan's work is that he transplants far too many grafts in young patients with a lot of native hair.  This does not bode well for their future. 

Also, you need to get on Finasteride otherwise you are going to have significant further loss in the future without the donor reserve and will be left with an unnatural result hair loss pattern 

I feel that you have to be realistic with your goals now since most of your donor has been used.  You may have some donor left but IT NEEDS TO BE MANAGED APPROPRIATELY!! You can maybe get a couple of small procedures of 600-800 grafts to thicken the hairline, but do not even consider lowering it given your age any remaining donor capacity.  

Good luck

 

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, splitting hairs said:

Hi, so I have had a look at your results and I have to say that I do not think it was appropriate for Dr Erdogan to transplant 5000 grafts for you.  Do you have any top-down pics before your op with dry hair? 

From what I've seen of Dr Erdogan's work is that he transplants far too many grafts in young patients with a lot of native hair.  This does not bode well for their future. 

Also, you need to get on Finasteride otherwise you are going to have significant further loss in the future without the donor reserve and will be left with an unnatural result hair loss pattern 

I feel that you have to be realistic with your goals now since most of your donor has been used.  You may have some donor left but IT NEEDS TO BE MANAGED APPROPRIATELY!! You can maybe get a couple of small procedures of 600-800 grafts to thicken the hairline, but do not even consider lowering it given your age any remaining donor capacity.  

Good luck

 

I just want to improve the density here so it's not so see through. It's so see through that is still basically half forehead and doesn't help frame my face enough. And here is a top view before Erdogan. He had a horrible yield on me. I bet a high yield 1250 or so to fill in these sparse areas would do wonders 

I've been on of finasteride before and I've experienced sexual side effects on it. 

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Edited by Der3k7
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8 hours ago, Der3k7 said:

I just want to improve the density here so it's not so see through. It's so see through that is still basically half forehead and doesn't help frame my face enough. And here is a top view before Erdogan. He had a horrible yield on me. I bet a high yield 1250 or so to fill in these sparse areas would do wonders 

I've been on of finasteride before and I've experienced sexual side effects on it. 

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Ok so given your dry before pictures, I think it was absolutely the wrong choice to transplant 5000 grafts for you.  I think it is poor planning from Dr Erdogan given your young age, the potential future hair loss and given that you are not taking finasteride.  I would also say that it is unethical because the approach does not have your long term interests in mind.

You should really have been asked to start low dose finasteride (1mg three times a week) to minimise side effects and halt your hair loss and then potentially a 2500 graft procedure to restore the hairline and temple points. 

Now however, I would consult a surgeon who will plan for your long term future such as Dr Lorenzo in spain.  I suspect he would advise low dose finasteride for a year then suggest a small procedure to increase density at the front.

One thing I would say about sexual side effects is that, sometimes the sexual side effects experienced can be due to psychologically expecting them.  For example, when I first started finasteride 12 years ago  I thought I was experiencing erection problems, but really I was just anxious because I was expecting them.  It was the anxiety that was causing them. They went away after I realised this and I've never had a problem since.

Good luck mate, I hope you manage to sort something out.

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Yeah I agree 5000 was way too much because when I see a high yield 5000 graft surgery, someone goes from slick bald to having hair and I already had a lot of hair so it just goes to show you how extremely horrible erdogans yield on me was.

I had the really bad post finasteride syndrome if you've ever heard of it. No joke. 

Well what do you think of couto? He has amazing yield in his results 

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5 hours ago, splitting hairs said:

Ok so given your dry before pictures, I think it was absolutely the wrong choice to transplant 5000 grafts for you.  I think it is poor planning from Dr Erdogan given your young age, the potential future hair loss and given that you are not taking finasteride.  I would also say that it is unethical because the approach does not have your long term interests in mind.

You should really have been asked to start low dose finasteride (1mg three times a week) to minimise side effects and halt your hair loss and then potentially a 2500 graft procedure to restore the hairline and temple points. 

Now however, I would consult a surgeon who will plan for your long term future such as Dr Lorenzo in spain.  I suspect he would advise low dose finasteride for a year then suggest a small procedure to increase density at the front.

One thing I would say about sexual side effects is that, sometimes the sexual side effects experienced can be due to psychologically expecting them.  For example, when I first started finasteride 12 years ago  I thought I was experiencing erection problems, but really I was just anxious because I was expecting them.  It was the anxiety that was causing them. They went away after I realised this and I've never had a problem since.

Good luck mate, I hope you manage to sort something out.

He's had over 7k grafts, you're complaining that 5k from ASMED was irresponsible yet you're recommending another 2500 grafts via FUE including "restoring" temple points.  I mean, that is just such a ridiculous, laughably oxymoronic thing to suggest. I can virtually guarantee he could get borderline "perfect" results with 1500 grafts, considering his history however I'd be highly suspect that there is potentially psychological reasons for lower than average growth and after two surgeries its unlikely grafts will grow any easier a third time round on scalp that has already been operated on.

If you've seen his results after the ARTAS procedure and consider that it was roughly 2500 in both the hairline and crown, its by no means abnormal.  The yield is well below par with ASMED, but its actually a major improvement when comparing to how he looked after the ARTAS procedure. Most of this guys photos are from indoor lighting in a bathroom, probably the worst place to get a judgement of what people are looking at.

I'm going to compare a few pics since this procedure for my overall judgement:

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So what is my point? My point is that whether or not his results are perfect, his DONOR looks equally if not more worrisome at this point than the actual result does in normal circumstances. Closeups in the bathroom mirror with a lens and lighting that accentuates problems aren't the best means for judging acceptability. Every outdoor pic suggests that the growth isn't perfect but the result is decent and looks natural. The donor is worrying, and considering he's had 7k grafts another procedure isn't something to do lightly. Attacking ASMED as being irresponsible then throwing out a suggestion to do another 2500 grafts and take a drug that gave him sexual side effects is to put it lightly, fucking dumb.

As an aside, OPs surgeon did a damn good job on the nose. At some point the risks become higher than potential returns however.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, JayLDD said:

He's had over 7k grafts, you're complaining that 5k from ASMED was irresponsible yet you're recommending another 2500 grafts via FUE including "restoring" temple points.  I mean, that is just such a ridiculous, laughably oxymoronic thing to suggest. I can virtually guarantee he could get borderline "perfect" results with 1500 grafts, considering his history however I'd be highly suspect that there is potentially psychological reasons for lower than average growth and after two surgeries its unlikely grafts will grow any easier a third time round on scalp that has already been operated on.

If you've seen his results after the ARTAS procedure and consider that it was roughly 2500 in both the hairline and crown, its by no means abnormal.  The yield is well below par with ASMED, but its actually a major improvement when comparing to how he looked after the ARTAS procedure. Most of this guys photos are from indoor lighting in a bathroom, probably the worst place to get a judgement of what people are looking at.

I'm going to compare a few pics since this procedure for my overall judgement:

8E883948-4A23-40F3-8710-D4CE7B69FC69.jpeg

097284C2-BB5B-4578-9E7F-843E600EBBC8.jpeg

7DF11F61-D71D-4676-B628-12165446E657.jpeg

2827636C-57F5-4A93-93AE-98144C9D677D.jpeg

9C6F8A15-6D80-4048-96A2-01882BA5E95A.jpeg

 

So what is my point? My point is that whether or not his results are perfect, his DONOR looks equally if not more worrisome at this point than the actual result does in normal circumstances. Closeups in the bathroom mirror with a lens and lighting that accentuates problems aren't the best means for judging acceptability. Every outdoor pic suggests that the growth isn't perfect but the result is decent and looks natural. The donor is worrying, and considering he's had 7k grafts another procedure isn't something to do lightly. Attacking ASMED as being irresponsible then throwing out a suggestion to do another 2500 grafts and take a drug that gave him sexual side effects is to put it lightly, fucking dumb.

As an aside, OPs surgeon did a damn good job on the nose. At some point the risks become higher than potential returns however.

 

 

No I think he was saying that instead of me doing the 5000 grafts with Erdogan I should have been good with 2500 assuming the yield was better than what I had with the 5000. 

Those pics you posted were a skin fade in the donor area that's why it looked like so much skin. My donor with hair grown out now looks like this. Also my first art as procedure was actually about 1800 in the hairline and 300 on my beard not 2500 in my hairline 

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Posted (edited)

Oh also I asked hw if they have experienced a hindrance to their yield on patients that have had multiple previous procedures and they said they do not notice any decrease in yield due to previous procedure. 

The bathroom lighting kind of simulates what it looks like in the sun outside during the day. I want my hairline to still be solid and frame my face when I am outside during the day. I don't want it to fade away and disappear with sunlight the way it does now. If it can be dense enough to frame my face and not disappear in sunlight then I'd be satisfied and content with it. 

Edited by Der3k7
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On 5/23/2020 at 11:01 AM, stephcurry30 said:

This.

I just skimmed this entire thread and holy crap. OP, no offense but you are too shallow and suffer from body dysphoria.  Rather than going for more surgeries you should go seek medical help and maybe invest in a therapist. 

I know you have good intentions with what your trying to say but telling someone they have body dysmorphia and should seek a therapist is a crappy thing to say. In that case everyone on this forum has body dysmorphia since were all trying to improve our looks.

The reality is we live in a shallow world and looks matter. We try to improve our looks for our inner confidence. OP had bad luck with two procedures (well 1 really, the artas procedure he was prolly doomed from the get go) and he’s trying his best to fix a shitty situation. I hope you are never on the wrong end of a bad hair transplant...going through all the stress only to end up unhappy with less money.

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I can see your concerns and they are valid. 

I would definitely look at Diep and Konior in the US for your case if you plan on getting another HT.

Couto in Spain would be an excellent choice as well like you mentioned.

 

 

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I have been silently following Dereck’s progress. The sad reality is that he is not using medication. My two cents are that his hair loss has progressed and he is a diffused thinner. Diffused thinners benefit greatly from fin and minoxidil. And it is an shame he does not realise the power of medication. He also needs to understand as men age, hair loss does increase. It is a reality. Dereck I know you talk a lot about Dr Couto ( Couto does not wow me at all and with only 64 videos on youtube, that is pure marketing) and HnW (who do prescribe their patients with meds but do not mention when posting results that the patient is under medication) but these doctors do encourage their patients to use medication. Finally, when hair loss progresses, donor hair also thins out. You do not know what NW pattern you will end up with. I suspect this is what has happened to you. Even DHT exists in the donor. 

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Couto has many more impressive videos than any other surgeon ive seen. If you'd video collection doesn't wow you then no one's should haha. The wow factor from before and after results of hair transplant are from the transplant not from finasteride. Finasteride helps prevent further loss but won't make you go from looking bald to having a nice hairline like a transplant would. So the impressive results from transplant before afters are primarily all because of the surgery, not from the medication. Medication primarily preserves what you've got. And I know finasteride works but I've had shitty and scary as hell  experiences on it and have read about the whole community of post finasteride syndrome and all. I'm not going on it again. I just need to get a good high yield surgery of about 1250 or so in my hairline I bet and save the rest for my crown and vertex 

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Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2020 at 2:28 AM, Der3k7 said:

No I think he was saying that instead of me doing the 5000 grafts with Erdogan I should have been good with 2500 assuming the yield was better than what I had with the 5000. 

Those pics you posted were a skin fade in the donor area that's why it looked like so much skin. My donor with hair grown out now looks like this. Also my first art as procedure was actually about 1800 in the hairline and 300 on my beard not 2500 in my hairline 

C703444A-CC95-49D6-B9BA-94C89B8A2920.jpeg

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Yeah maybe I didn't write it well but I was referring to the second procedure not the ARTAS when I said 2500 each crown and frontal. Tbh I'd be a nervous on another FUE procedure looking at any of those photos. I'd probably raise the potential of FUT with HnW if you're going to grow your donor a little longer like it is in these pics. Definitely don't think you get away with anything close to a skin fade even currently.

I do think Couto is getting some of the best results in the world via FUE and doing so fairly consistently, but obviously they aren't posting any duds on their social media and there aren't nearly as many patient posted results as a lot of other well known clinics.

Also I totally agree with your point on finasteride and had a similar experience, no reason to try it again.  Also agree that its a very small amount of grafts in the hairline to get what you want. I'd consider Konior in the US in your situation.

Edited by JayLDD
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Posted (edited)

I would never do fut. My hair is only long on sides here because of quarantine I couldn't get haircuts. Yeah well Diep and Hansson sure wouldn't be posting their duds on their websites or the internet either. But the results couto posts are consistently more impressive than what hw posts imo. Not to say hw doesn't have some impressive results. But when I look at the pics they post themselves on their website, which would be their best most likely, their best doesn't seem to be as consistently good as coutos best. I think couto gets a higher yield. I think couto also does the entire surgery himself but I'm not sure I'll have to ask them when I call them at the number they provided for setting up my consultation and surgery with them. I'm just hesitant to call cuz I have to set my alarm clock for 3 in the morning.

Given what my donor looks like as long as if I get a high yield I think the net affect of taking 1250 grafts out spread throughout the entire donor and filling in my thin hairline would be a net positive for sure

Edited by Der3k7
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2 hours ago, Der3k7 said:

Couto has many more impressive videos than any other surgeon ive seen. If you'd video collection doesn't wow you then no one's should haha. The wow factor from before and after results of hair transplant are from the transplant not from finasteride. Finasteride helps prevent further loss but won't make you go from looking bald to having a nice hairline like a transplant would. So the impressive results from transplant before afters are primarily all because of the surgery, not from the medication. Medication primarily preserves what you've got. And I know finasteride works but I've had shitty and scary as hell  experiences on it and have read about the whole community of post finasteride syndrome and all. I'm not going on it again. I just need to get a good high yield surgery of about 1250 or so in my hairline I bet and save the rest for my crown and vertex 

You are wrong about medication. Meds help thicken hair and can even grow miniaturised hairs back to terminal hairs. Including in THE DONOR. I am proof of this concept. Obviously thick, terminal hairs from the donor help in increasing the illusion of density. 

I have seen “normal” results of Couto and they all posted by real-patients in forums. Couto is also human....his marketing is good. Soft light for before surgery and harsh light to showcase the results. Lighting plays a huge factor. 

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Well yeah I know it helps thicken miniaturized hair and increased hair caliber improves coverage. The sexual side effects are just too real for me to risk it again. 

Are you able to link me to those results? I haven't seen any patient posted results but if I can see some patient posted results of him that would help. I haven't been able.to locate any 

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Posted (edited)

I think I may just go with hw. He has the best balance of most patient reviews, results, and a short wait list. I can go with him in November but Diep is booked until next July and I don't want to do it in summer so I'd probably be waiting until next November and I don't want to wait that long lol. But here you can see its clear my hairline disappears and just filling in where I drew would transform my look. I basically just traced where my thin hairline is

037AB57F-CC9B-477F-834E-7E9F5182C7F8.jpeg

Edited by Der3k7
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Great choice and looking forward to seeing this.  I see the markup you have and no doubt should come out well.  Best wishes

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On 5/15/2020 at 10:18 PM, Der3k7 said:

Couto compilation. He's also $5.4 per graft vs $8.44 for diep but with plane ticket and extra hotel nights I'd only be saving about 4k but I care more about results than 4k lol

How long is the wit for Couto?

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On 5/24/2020 at 6:17 PM, JayLDD said:

 However I'd be highly suspect that there is potentially psychological reasons for lower than average growth and after two surgeries its unlikely grafts will grow any easier a third time round on scalp that has already been operated on.

 

 

 

Did you mean physiological? And if not, care to elaborate on how psychological factors would play a part here?

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52 minutes ago, BjornBorg said:

Did you mean physiological? And if not, care to elaborate on how psychological factors would play a part here?

Stress can affect immune system and wound healing however I heal from wounds just fine. I don't think it is psychological. Hasson also said that they haven't noticed any decrease in yield in patients with previous surgeries 

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Posted (edited)

Oh what is that? I haven't heard of that. Are they going live on their instagram account for users of this forum to ask questions?

Edited by Der3k7
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5 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

Oh what is that? I haven't heard of that. Are they going live on their instagram account for users of this forum to ask questions?

Yes, you can join and ask them a question now, and I’ll ask it. In case you don’t follow us our handle is @thehairtransplantnetwork

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