Dr. Koray Erdogan 5000 grafts

[jonnyalex]

47 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

You are 5 months post op from a second surgery with someone else? Who did you go to for your surgery in May and how is it coming along at 5 months so far? How many grafts did you use for this one? 

Dr Keser/900 grafts. On one side, I am relatively happy. The other side is struggling. I thought it would struggle as he had to implant less into existing scar tissue where ASMED's work failed to grow. I am keeping my fingers crossed but I'm very nervous. He said I have 1000 grafts left after already having 5500 grafts but I'm really not sure. I don't feel my donor could handle it. I was so naive and stupid thinking 4600 grafts from ASMED initially was a good move. 

A second surgery in a place where you already had surgery comes with a whole new set of issues unfortunately. 

Edited October 11, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Der3k7]

Do you have pics?

[Melvin- Admin]

3 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

I had 4600 grafts in 2015, I can provide you photos if you wish via PM. Even if I wasn't,  I don't see the relevance. This forum was the sole reason I went there, the results being posted at the time were all good. In terms of my result, I was not satisfied with my hairline which shows scarring in the light, of areas which failed to grow (the hairline does not look good). The area behind was ok, but they used a massive amount in the crown which I've since heard was totally unneeded. My theory is they do this knowing some areas wont grow but can take credit for a good result either way (because something is likely to grow with that amount  of grafts  ). Nearly all top surgeons use about half the grafts for the same, if not much better results. 

I've since had another transplant in May inwhich the doctor stated how my donor area had been very aggressively harvested, leaving lower quality grafts for him to work with. This will negatively effect my results I'm sure. 

It is due to my own struggle with this that I feel for the people who went there and got a bad result. There are loads. To deny it is ridiculous at this point. I'm sick of getting attacked for pointing out which is blatantly obvious to see. 

 

I respect your work here alot but I believe your conversation with him regarding this was inadequate. He should be fully explaining what's going on here, offering refunds and not trying to sweet talk you with a visit to his clinic. 

He states he does not give refunds due to this being an admission that another surgeon could do better. This is interesting due to the fact that he is barely involved.

The fact is, I believe I could have avoided years of stress and anxiety had I just gone to a top surgeons who was actually properly involved in the procedure. It is therefore that I say he shouldn't be recommended here at all. 

You say you recommend surgeons not clinics, but this makes zero sense. Koray Erdogan is barely involved in the procedure so you are therefore recommending people go to see a surgeon who is barely there! It is young techs who do nearly everything. They couldn't possibly have much experience due to their age.

 

I was attacked on another thread by a guy who you seemingly allow you call people names. He stated how H&W operate the same way. From what I have read, the techs there, especially the lead techs have huge experience and they are always present, they do not run 9 surgeries a day and the surgeons are often present. The comparison is ludicrous.

 

He doesn't even supervise your surgery at all. Furthermore, they never contacted me even once to see how it was going. Completely uninterested.

Of course, this is my opinion and appreciate being able to say it freely, which is how any fair discussion forum should operate. 

 

Yes all surgeons have bad results but I'm sorry, not to this extent. What I have learnt is it is extremely important to get it right the first time, which is why I don't think a clinic who are constantly offering free touch ups to fix their disastrous work should be recommended here. Your donor cannot be refunded or replaced. 

 

I think its extremely bizarre that people think I'm needlessly slagging off a clinic. The evidence is overwhelming. 

 

Yes please send me a private message. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of duplicate accounts on this forum targeting this particular clinic. If you are a patient and you are not happy with your results the clinic needs to know. I disagree with refunds. I'm a patient, my surgeon doesn't offer refunds. When you elect to have cosmetic surgery you should know that surgery is never guaranteed. Surgeons will do their best, but this may fail at times and all of this should be clearly written in the agreement you sign at surgery. If Dr. Erdogan, is not doing this, than this is a serious issue because he should.

In my experience, the surgeons who offer refunds will usually attach the refund to an NDA. So, in the end it doesn't help patients. I think the best thing a surgeon can do is offer additional work for free. I don't think anyone can fault the clinic for offering to fix the issue. My only goal on this forum is to keep a fair and objective community. 

[Der3k7]

Yeah I'm just going to take the sunk cost and go with a different surgeon. BTW it took you 8 months for your post finasteride syndrome? Did you have it to the point where you couldn't get a hard on no matter how hard you tried? That lasted for a month or so for me I think then it started getting better was actually able to get it on within just a few months of quitting the drug

Edited October 11, 2019 by Der3k7

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, Der3k7 said:

Yeah I'm just going to take the sunk cost and go with a different surgeon. BTW it took you 8 months for your post finasteride syndrome? Did you have it to the point where you couldn't get a hard on no matter how hard you tried? That lasted for a month or so for me I think then it started getting better was actually able to get it on within just a few months of quitting the drug

I first noticed it when I was only 21, had a girl over we started kissing,  by this point my body would start reacting from normally. I had been drinking a little so I brushed it off as that. I stopped and waited about an hour or so to let the booze come down. The same thing happened. This is when I started to panic, I tried everything and nothing helped. It was a failure to launch LMAO.

I remember this happened a couple times after that until I realized it was the drug, some of the most embarrassing moments of my life. It slowly started getting better. I remember it took me almost the entire year to get fully normal. 

[Kraistoff]

Hey everyone.

 

i think it’s a balance we should be expecting with the clinics. Yes they should maximise their profits, and increase amount of patients , but they should also ensure quality , safety, ethics and value for money. 

They cannot be expected to charge a tiny sum for brilliant results that take 2 days to achieve, but they shouldn’t expect us to pay a lot of money for risky procedures , unethical use of grafts , rushed consultations , and having to share our “special moment” with 5/6 other people. 

My result isn’t a bad result but a good one. But I start to think I’d have been better off going to Harley Street or somewhere else in Turkey where I’d have used less grafts and paid less money. I’m not bad mouthing the clinic, I just think they haven’t got their balance right. 

[Der3k7]

You know I haven't actually seen many H and w patient posted results on this forum.  Are there many? 

[JayLDD]

On 10/12/2019 at 1:14 AM, jonnyalex said:

Dr Keser/900 grafts. On one side, I am relatively happy. The other side is struggling. I thought it would struggle as he had to implant less into existing scar tissue where ASMED's work failed to grow. I am keeping my fingers crossed but I'm very nervous. He said I have 1000 grafts left after already having 5500 grafts but I'm really not sure. I don't feel my donor could handle it. I was so naive and stupid thinking 4600 grafts from ASMED initially was a good move. 

A second surgery in a place where you already had surgery comes with a whole new set of issues unfortunately. 

Pretty convenient to blame scar tissue with a surgeon that is one of the most meticulous in the business, but with ASMED instead of blaming physiology, blaming it on the clinic.

[jonnyalex]

1 hour ago, JayLDD said:

Pretty convenient to blame scar tissue with a surgeon that is one of the most meticulous in the business, but with ASMED instead of blaming physiology, blaming it on the clinic.

Why would scar tissue affect my first surgery? Do you even read what you write Mr 'I consider myself the most level headed member of this forum? (yeah, I did see that post. Guess what? If you have to say that to reassure yourself, you are anything but level headed)

I have seen you attack multiple clinics, yet you defend these because you went to them and everything you do is without question, right? 

You are nothing but a troll and have insulted multiple people on this forum, seemingly allowed to do so without question. You do the same on other forums.

The results posted by ASMED patients here recently are exactly the type of work you criticise. You are something else. 

You also talk like you know absolutely everything about the industry but I am beginning to think you know absolutely sod all. Especially with statements like H&W learnt FUE from ASMED 🤣

 

I may still have a great result. It has been 5 months. Now go troll somewhere else. 

 

Edited October 14, 2019 by jonnyalex

[JayLDD]

17 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

Why would scar tissue affect my first surgery? Do you even read what you write Mr 'I consider myself the most level headed member of this forum? (yeah, I did see that post. Guess what? If you have to say that to reassure yourself, you are anything but level headed)

I have seen you attack multiple clinics, yet you defend these because you went to them and everything you do is without question, right? 

You are nothing but a troll and have insulted multiple people on this forum, seemingly allowed to do so without question. You do the same on other forums.

The results posted by ASMED patients here recently are exactly the type of work you criticise. You are something else. 

You also talk like you know absolutely everything about the industry but I am beginning to think you know absolutely sod all. Especially with statements like H&W learnt FUE from ASMED 🤣

 

I may still have a great result. It has been 5 months. Now go troll somewhere else. 

 

"Why would scar tissue affect my first surgery? Do you even read what you write Mr 'I consider myself the most level headed member of this forum? (yeah, I did see that post. Guess what? If you have to say that to reassure yourself, you are anything but level headed)"

That's not what I said, put your reading comprehension cap on. My point was clearly that you made a very direct link between scar tissue and potential growth without knowing conclusively whether or not this has anything to do with it. You made a direct link between ASMEDs work however, and what you consider a poor result. Both of these involve physiology and your individual body, on top of that Keser has a much slower and more meticulous approach than ASMED, if result in your second procedure is lacklustre in an area then I'm going to question how you're so sure in the second case it wasn't the doctor but in the first case it was.Yes, I do indeed consider myself level headed because I can accurately draw, or avoid drawing conclusions that the facts don't logically reflect, which is what you did and did in particular when making an attack.

When you say "the results posted by ASMED patients here" again its a question of statistics. If in one year out of the last 7 or so the standards dropped (which they did) from the clinic with the most patient posted results on this website and on the international forum for example, when previously their results were among the most consistent in the world and still a majority world class in terms in terms of FUE megassession standards, yes I'm going to be suspicious of immediately drawing swift judgement on them. Considering they are undoubtedly the most successful FUE megasession clinic in the world, with the most patient posted results of any clinic, and previously were among the most consistent in the world that's hardly unreasonable. Again, do I think the consistency dropped sometime in late 2017-2018 if we look at results? Yes absolutely. At the same time, if every single result coming out of a different clinic with a fifth, or tenth or some tiny fraction of the amount of patient posted results of ASMED has 3-4 bad results in a year, statistically that is significantly more worrying.

What type of work that I criticise are you even referring to? I regard highly the vast majority of surgeons that most knowledgeable posters here do. There are no clinics other than ASMED however where you had posters making 7-8 accounts on this website to make negative comments, post fake photos, refuse to post any photos, make things up on a regular basis, blackmail the clinic or just outright lie about their experience, or the expectations of a hair transplant. Consider also that your own second surgeon for example I've praised repeatedly, and for smaller sessions I would absolutely choose over ASMED. I've said this many times,  and I've also recommended and praised surgeons like Freitas, Feriduni, HnW as well as Hattingen clinic.

I talk like I know a lot because I do, I've looked at ten times the amount of results you have and considered results statistically, read ten times the amount of experiences medical data you have,  and am ten times more honest. To be totally honest I couldn't care less whether someone I think is an angry little idiot thinks I know anything either. I never said "HnW learnt FUE from ASMED" , although most certainly their website from a 2017 post says this:

"In Europe the work of Dr Jose Lorenzo and Dr Koray Erdogan  has come closest to the quality of work that we like to produce. With their assistance we have trained already experienced technicians in their manual extraction techniques.  For approximately 2 years we have been slowly increasing the number of FUE procedures that we perform ."

On top of that Dr Wong is part of and attends World FUE institute workshops, of which Koray is the vice president. Hardly seems unjustified to suggest that ASMED had huge industry influence and success. 

You're right at 5 months you certainly might have a great result, honestly that's entirely too early to even start drawing conclusions.

 

 

[jonnyalex]

On 10/15/2019 at 4:02 PM, JayLDD said:

"Why would scar tissue affect my first surgery? Do you even read what you write Mr 'I consider myself the most level headed member of this forum? (yeah, I did see that post. Guess what? If you have to say that to reassure yourself, you are anything but level headed)"

That's not what I said, put your reading comprehension cap on. My point was clearly that you made a very direct link between scar tissue and potential growth without knowing conclusively whether or not this has anything to do with it. You made a direct link between ASMEDs work however, and what you consider a poor result. Both of these involve physiology and your individual body, on top of that Keser has a much slower and more meticulous approach than ASMED, if result in your second procedure is lacklustre in an area then I'm going to question how you're so sure in the second case it wasn't the doctor but in the first case it was.Yes, I do indeed consider myself level headed because I can accurately draw, or avoid drawing conclusions that the facts don't logically reflect, which is what you did and did in particular when making an attack.

When you say "the results posted by ASMED patients here" again its a question of statistics. If in one year out of the last 7 or so the standards dropped (which they did) from the clinic with the most patient posted results on this website and on the international forum for example, when previously their results were among the most consistent in the world and still a majority world class in terms in terms of FUE megassession standards, yes I'm going to be suspicious of immediately drawing swift judgement on them. Considering they are undoubtedly the most successful FUE megasession clinic in the world, with the most patient posted results of any clinic, and previously were among the most consistent in the world that's hardly unreasonable. Again, do I think the consistency dropped sometime in late 2017-2018 if we look at results? Yes absolutely. At the same time, if every single result coming out of a different clinic with a fifth, or tenth or some tiny fraction of the amount of patient posted results of ASMED has 3-4 bad results in a year, statistically that is significantly more worrying.

What type of work that I criticise are you even referring to? I regard highly the vast majority of surgeons that most knowledgeable posters here do. There are no clinics other than ASMED however where you had posters making 7-8 accounts on this website to make negative comments, post fake photos, refuse to post any photos, make things up on a regular basis, blackmail the clinic or just outright lie about their experience, or the expectations of a hair transplant. Consider also that your own second surgeon for example I've praised repeatedly, and for smaller sessions I would absolutely choose over ASMED. I've said this many times,  and I've also recommended and praised surgeons like Freitas, Feriduni, HnW as well as Hattingen clinic.

I talk like I know a lot because I do, I've looked at ten times the amount of results you have and considered results statistically, read ten times the amount of experiences medical data you have,  and am ten times more honest. To be totally honest I couldn't care less whether someone I think is an angry little idiot thinks I know anything either. I never said "HnW learnt FUE from ASMED" , although most certainly their website from a 2017 post says this:

"In Europe the work of Dr Jose Lorenzo and Dr Koray Erdogan  has come closest to the quality of work that we like to produce. With their assistance we have trained already experienced technicians in their manual extraction techniques.  For approximately 2 years we have been slowly increasing the number of FUE procedures that we perform ."

On top of that Dr Wong is part of and attends World FUE institute workshops, of which Koray is the vice president. Hardly seems unjustified to suggest that ASMED had huge industry influence and success. 

You're right at 5 months you certainly might have a great result, honestly that's entirely too early to even start drawing conclusions.

 

 

Your arrogance is frankly tiring at this point. You say you've looked at ten times the results I have. How do you know this? As far as I am aware, I had my surgery a long time before you. Before that surgery I had been researching for at least 4 years almost daily. I have been continuously looking at results ever since, both here and on the foreign language forums. Making statements like this is simply ridiculous. 

I'm sorry but you can't use the physiology arguement for ASMEDS shocking drop in quality. You've even previously commented and accepted this decline. 

As for scar tissue. This is plastic surgery. In ANY form of plastic surgery, be it nose jobs or hair transplantation, scar tissue makes the job substantially more difficult and the percentage chance of a good result declines. 

I'm tired of the way you come at me like I have some vendetta against the clinic you used, like it somehow affects your result. I wasn't happy with my result or the experience and will not reframe from sharing my feelings, simply because it bothers you. I have never said this clinic was always bad or that all their work is bad. I have simply commented on the terrible hairline work posted on this forum and my own personal result. At the same time, I have, to a lesser extent, commented on the good results (good results should be a given from a world class clinic).

In your various responses to me over time, you've called me a moron, suggested I am an idiot, a liar by questioning my integrity and now question my reading ability.  You can't seem to debate something without insulting people. Not just me, you've done it with multiple people. What you cannot understand is that as soon as you resort to name calling, you immediately lose any and every arguement you are involved in. 

My feelings are Koray Erdogan is one of the best surgeons in the world. The ASMED experience is not the Koray Erdogan experience however and his involvement is VERY minor, especially with the huge amount of patients they work on at the same time. The attention to detail has gone and with the new clinic and increased amount of operations performed daily, new technicians must have been hired. This is the only logical explanation for this pretty sudden influx of bad results posted here. It is not just here where his reputation has declined. Search the foreign language forums and you'll see how this is mirrored there. 

I'm not a yes guy who will simply tell all the guys with fucked up hairlines; 'it's your physiology'. 

 

At the end of the day, you had a good result and I had a bad one. We are both allowed to share our thoughts. The only difference is, I do not attack you for praising them. 

Stop acting like a tough man on the internet by calling people 'little idiot'. I would hazard a guess that you wouldn't dream of saying it in real life to anyone. This is always the case with people who behave this way via keyboard.

Edited October 17, 2019 by jonnyalex

[Guy73]

Personally,I would never go with a clinic that does multiple surgeries a day. You want one team and one focus. This is a tiring job no doubt. And if the doctor is just a supervisor then.... no way would I ever book with that clinic. Common sense folks. 

[Gasthoerer]

4 hours ago, jonnyalex said:

... ASMEDS shocking drop in quality. You've even previously commented and accepted this decline. 

... The attention to detail has gone and with the new clinic and increased amount of operations performed daily, new technicians must have been hired. This is the only logical explanation for this pretty sudden influx of bad results posted here. It is not just here where his reputation has declined.

The only "data" we have been provided here does not back-up your "shocking drop in quality". Where is your data coming from? Or is it just your gut feel?

By the way: I said it ten times before. I would have never gone to ASMED as I never liked there hairline macro design (but this is totally subjective) and like the previous poster mrntiong, even in the old clinic there were to many operations in one day for my personal taste.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Gasthoerer

[Der3k7]

I'm pretty sure it's been a thing now for the past 15 months that's it's obvious there has been a drop in quality from asmed. They're results from a few years ago seemed to consistently be better and now there are more frequent mediocre results. I also agree that I do not think all the mediocre results are because of the patients physiology. I think it's surgical error 

[Kraistoff]

1 minute ago, Der3k7 said:

I'm pretty sure it's been a thing now for the past 15 months that's it's obvious there has been a drop in quality from asmed. They're results from a few years ago seemed to consistently be better and now there are more frequent mediocre results. I also agree that I do not think all the mediocre results are because of the patients physiology. I think it's surgical error 

Who knows. 

Woth me , I am certain the front of a lot better than behind. The very front of the forelock is also a lot better - if it was like the frontal forelock everywhere including the sides of the hairline I would be over the moon. The temples are also perfect , never shed and look brilliant and dense 

I remember waking up during surgery and a senior (older) tech was doing the frontal forelock. I woke up due to the pain, as the grafts were being moved around and positioned . I was told she was a member of the board. 

Why would she do the front but the other techs do elsewhere ? 

 

 

[Guy73]

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

The only "data" we have been provided here does not back-up your "shocking drop in quality". Where is your data coming from? Or is it just your gut feel?

By the way: I said it ten times before. I would have never gone to ASMED as I never liked there hairline macro design (but this is totally subjective) and like the prvious poster even in the old clinic there were to many operations in one day for my personal taste.

Try visiting “planet Stephen” on YouTube. 
He did take them up on a second free surgery with mixed results. 

[Gasthoerer]

1 hour ago, Guy73 said:

Try visiting “planet Stephen” on YouTube. 
He did take them up on a second free surgery with mixed results. 

I know that case but, we clearly have a different understanding of "data". 

@LordBaldwin made so much effort to collect all results, but no one cares. It is so much more convenient to trust your gut. 

[LordBaldwin]

1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said:

I know that case but, we clearly have a different understanding of "data". 

@LordBaldwin made so much effort to collect all results, but no one cares. It is so much more convenient to trust your gut. 

Yup.  If I'd been putting this information together entirely for others, I'd say I wasted my time, but honestly, my first goal was to put my own mind at ease.  Better to do this, I think, than post on here constantly with no useful information, with my neuroticism and hand-wringing on full display.

[Der3k7]

Donor area when super short 

[Gasthoerer]

Looking good for the amount of grafts. Donor management of ASMED is real great, no sign of "young technicians doing bad work"...Personally, I think that the main issues lays here: ASMED is maybe to aggressive in punch size and therefore risking yield. But there is not much to back my opinion up.

[Spidey]

Your donor area looks awesome. But 5000 grafts for the results you got I would be disappointed as well... 

[Der3k7]

Yeah I'm fine with how my donor looks, its just the yield was way too low. And actually my barber asked me if I had a Hair transplant without me telling him. He said he could kind of tell because you can see if you look closely in my upper temple area the texture and quality of hair is slightly different in the recipient area than the native hairs. Plus the bald spot I have in the corners is a slightly unnatural male pattern baldness pattern and is the result of some patchiness of the hair transplant due to yield issues.

Also this is the type of skin fade I was talking about. Id be okay sacrificing some donor density in order to have a but better density on my crown and hairline because I keep the sides and back short anyway. I'd rather look a bit thin in the donor area than in my hairline and crown cuz when you take it to A length 0 or.5 it's not as important.

My barber actually messed up the style I want in the back so i had to draw this picture so I can explain it better next time lol. I want the fade to drop to a V shape in the back like this. Right now it looks like a bowl cut in the back. 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Der3k7

[jonnyalex]

For the amount of grafts you've had, your donor area looks absolutely incredible. I don't know it's the quality of the photos but I can't see any sign of surgery. Gasthoerer is indeed correct, if ASMED do one thing right, it's donor extraction and this has always been the case.

ps.

This is what I was was referring to when I said transplanting into scar tissue is not ideal. Of course Mr knowitall is more knowledgeable than any doctor of course 🙄

[Gasthoerer]

2 hours ago, Der3k7 said:

Also this is the type of skin fade I was talking about. Id be okay sacrificing some donor density in order to have a but better density on my crown and hairline because I keep the sides and back short anyway. I'd rather look a bit thin in the donor area than in my hairline and crown cuz when you take it to A length 0 or.5 it's not as important.

My barber actually messed up the style I want in the back so i had to draw this picture so I can explain it better next time lol. I want the fade to drop to a V shape in the back like this. Right now it looks like a bowl cut in the back. 

You should keep in mind: You are young now but you will be "old" for a long time (hopefully). And fashion comes and goes. The revival of the skin fade will, well, fade! And you cannot sport this look your entire life.

[Der3k7]

Haha idk man. just cuz you're old doesn't mean you can't look fresh. Plus if you think of the alternatives it's still always better. Styles do change however If push came to shove it is always better to be a bit better in the hairline and crown and sacrifice a little density in the sides and back and then keep a nice fade rather than to be thin on the top and hairline and yet have a thick bush on the back and sides of your head. The first way you still look good and not like you are balding, EVEN IF it is not the style to keep the sides and back short. There's always going to be variation in hairstyles anyway. This will always look pretty good in my lifetime I am quite sure of that. The second way you clearly look like you are balding. Even if I kept a bush in the back and let my top go to crap and just shaved my entire head, either way, the hair on the back and sides would be super short. The only way it is ever good to do a style with the hair long on the sides and back is if you have a dense crown and hairline ANYWAY. There are absolutely 0 good hairstyles where the hair on sides and back are ever longer than the hair on top. It is always equal in length or much shorter than the top. Otherwise you look like the guy in the 2nd picture 

Good.

Bad.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Der3k7