Backing out of ASMED

[LordBaldwin]

11 hours ago, cali101 said:

im sure this has been discussed on the board before but asmed is building a massive new clinic right next to Radisson hotel. It was close to being done in July so assume they will move by end of year. The new clinic will allow them to do up to 8 patients a day. I’m sure this is giving people stress but I really think it’s possible if they can get enough qualified techs because I believe Dr Koray does it correctly as in drawing the hairline and making inceisions everything else takes so much effort and concentration that you need someone who is like a robot factory worker especially with up to 3k graft a day

 

7 hours ago, kw877 said:

I can also corroborate this as my friend who had his surgery at asmed the same day as me was told by his coordinator about the new clinic. I’m gonna pray that I got the experiences techs. I hope my friend did too as I was the one who recommended this clinic and we flew together from west coast USA. 

If either or both of us have a bad result im gonna feel so bad. 8 patients a day to me is inconceivable and totally incongruent with good practice. 4 is proving too many to handle, if this were to double it becomes nothing more than a money grab. But I know it’s likely true as I knew this the day after my surgery. This post just solidified it. 

 

7 hours ago, Cristian1 said:

So for them as far as I'm reading importance is quantity > quality.

That's pretty sad actually. They only care to make more money, that includes increasing the number of patients per day even though the results are not gonna be good.

Are there any good and renowned clinics in Turkey besides dr. Koray and his clinic?

24 minutes ago, Payam said:

 No one has said 8 patients a day, it's FOUR patients a day as far as i know, which is far too much in itself. I will look at the results you posted when i get home, the only conclusion i am jumping to is that when you have several teams of techs and almost no supervision during critical aspects of the surgery, there is an increased probability that the quality is negatively affected. I don't think that is an unreasonable conclusion to draw. I will not counter with the poor results here for obvious reasons, it is extremely mean spirited to talk negatively of someone elses transplant even if it is objective so let's continue this conversation in the PMs.

See the first two quotes -- this is where the 8 patient per day thing comes from.

[LordBaldwin]

41 minutes ago, Payam said:

No one has said 8 patients a day, it's FOUR patients a day as far as i know, which is far too much in itself. I will look at the results you posted when i get home, the only conclusion i am jumping to is that when you have several teams of techs and almost no supervision during critical aspects of the surgery, there is an increased probability that the quality is negatively affected. I don't think that is an unreasonable conclusion to draw. I will not counter with the poor results here for obvious reasons, it is extremely mean spirited to talk negatively of someone elses transplant even if it is objective so let's continue this conversation in the PMs.

Alright, so I have to ask... what exactly is your goal, here?  I mean, it's pretty clear you're trying to dissuade people (like me) from going to this clinic, but I'm wondering why.  There's plenty of evidence that they still produce a lot of good results.  You found maybe 1 out of 12 or 13 on the international forum where the result wasn't to the satisfaction of the patient...and are you really going to tell me that other clinics don't have the same ratio or worse?  On this forum, I'm seeing a bit of a bandwagon effect taking place.  You're jumping from one thread to the next trying to attack this clinic, looking for any adverse material you can find....and frankly, it seems a little more like a personal vendetta than anything else.  You've been after them since Day 3 post-op.   Like, I understand that you've been upset, and you feel as though you had a bad experience (even though your HT hasn't reached maturation yet), but it seems like you're really going to great lengths to convince everyone that your case is in the majority rather than the minority.

Edited November 2, 2018 by LordBaldwin

[Payam]

16 minutes ago, LordBaldwin said:

 

 

See the first two quotes -- this is where the 8 patient per day thing comes from.

The quote is talking about the clinic thet are building which will supposedly have 8 patients a day, the current clinic takes 4 patients a day as far as I know

[Payam]

6 minutes ago, LordBaldwin said:

Alright, so I have to ask... what exactly is your goal, here?  I mean, it's pretty clear you're trying to dissuade people (like me) from going to this clinic, but I'm wondering why.  There's plenty of evidence that they still produce a lot of good results.  You found maybe 1 out of 12 or 13 on the international forum where the result wasn't to the satisfaction of the patient...and are you really going to tell me that other clinics don't have the same ratio or worse?  On this forum, I'm seeing a bit of a bandwagon effect taking place.  You're jumping from one thread to the next trying to attack this clinic, looking for any adverse material you can find....and frankly, it seems a little more like a personal vendetta than anything else.  You've been after them since Day 3 post-op.  

Could ask you the same question mate, if I ignore the good results then you certainly are ignoring the bad ones of which there are plenty, I am not trying to dissuade anyone, I have never said "don't go there", it's important we are transparent about things though, had I personally known some of the things I know today I would have picked a different clinic. If we can't objectively discuss the negative aspects of different clinics then what is the point of this forum?

[LordBaldwin]

10 minutes ago, Payam said:

The quote is talking about the clinic thet are building which will supposedly have 8 patients a day, the current clinic takes 4 patients a day as far as I know

Right, but the point is that they are under the impression that the clinic plans to operate on up to 8 patients a day, and that the training for this eventuality was what caused the 2-3 mediocre outcomes recently.  It seems like this is unconfirmed, and it's being used to further an argument that's already flimsy. 

[LordBaldwin]

11 minutes ago, Payam said:

Could ask you the same question mate, if I ignore the good results then you certainly are ignoring the bad ones of which there are plenty, I am not trying to dissuade anyone, I have never said "don't go there", it's important we are transparent about things though, had I personally known some of the things I know today I would have picked a different clinic. If we can't objectively discuss the negative aspects of different clinics then what is the point of this forum?

I'm not ignoring the bad results.  I'm asserting that they appear to be in the minority.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  I'm trying to get to the bottom of this, based on the facts, because I have skin in the game (literally).  I'm supposed to be going there in December and I want to have a clear idea of what's actually happening and what their distribution of results actually looks like.  This is a probability game and I want a realistic understanding of what my odds of getting a good/bad result are.

I've already paid a deposit and I don't want to throw it away unless there's solid evidence that, suddenly, a majority (or significant portion) of the results from this clinic are mediocre or worse.  And frankly, it's a disservice to those of us who are still trying to make a final decision to try to skew the data.

Edited November 2, 2018 by LordBaldwin

[Payam]

11 minutes ago, LordBaldwin said:

I'm not ignoring the bad results.  I'm asserting that they appear to be in the minority.  That's the point I'm trying to make.  I'm trying to get to the bottom of this, based on the facts, because I have skin in the game (literally).  I'm supposed to be going there in December and I want to have a clear idea of what's actually happening and what their distribution of results actually looks like.  This is a probability game and I want a realistic understanding of what my odds of getting a good/bad result are.

I've already paid a deposit and I don't want to throw it away unless there's solid evidence that, suddenly, a majority (or significant portion) of the results from this clinic are mediocre or worse.  And frankly, it's a disservice to those of us who are still trying to make a final decision to try to skew the data.

I can't help you with that brother, I can only speak for myself and my own experiences, I think it boils down to what you would consider a "bad" result, or what you find acceptable in terms of Korays involvement in your surgery and refinement of the result. The information is readily available so you need to dig deep and do your research properly, something I utterly failed at.

[cali101]

Hello...I would like to clarify my comments and also note that I am so far very satisfied with my experience and believe that if the results are not maintained when they increase the number of patients that they will adjust. It is not all about profit. Dr Koray is very concerned about his reputation and his results. 

Also I would like to clarify the 8 patient comment. I believe she said they could have UP TO 8 Patients. I know they are currently adding staff and resources so this does not mean that they will have 8 patient just the capacity to have 8 if they can properly train enough techs and whatever else is required logistically. It could mean they have 6 patients and 1 or 2 touch ups or small procedures. I do not know this but I would think since he is a recommended surgeon one of the moderators could reach out to the clinic and inquire when the new clinic is opening and will the capacity increase right away. 

I think the most important thing boards like this can give people is honest facts. Once we the patients have the facts we can make informed decisions. If it was not for this website and the reviews and pictures I saw there is no way I would have chosen Asmed. Even if they go up on number of patients I would still go back because I trust that Dr Koray is ethical and not only about profit. He cares about the result greatly. If the result continue to decline I am sure they will adjust.

I will say all of this discussion is giving me anxiety about my results but I do believe discussion should be allowed as long as they are real patients and experiences so people can make there own decision but people need to have proper expectations. I think you have to give it time but if there are lots of doubles and triples in the hair line someone is not doing their job correctly using the microscope. I am not an expert but maybe a plausible explanation is the single grafts that were placed in the front did not survive ? 

[LordBaldwin]

16 minutes ago, Payam said:

I can't help you with that brother, I can only speak for myself and my own experiences, I think it boils down to what you would consider a "bad" result, or what you find acceptable in terms of Korays involvement in your surgery and refinement of the result. The information is readily available so you need to dig deep and do your research properly, something I utterly failed at.

I have done my own research.  I've been researching for months.  There seem to be significantly more results that range from "good" to "great" than "mediocre" to "bad."  And let's be honest here...you're not just speaking for yourself.  You're digging real deep for any negative reviews you can find and then acting like that subgroup is really a majority.  I don't think it's fair to do this, as there are many guys who are trying to make decisions based off of the information they see here.  

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, Payam said:

The quote is talking about the clinic thet are building which will supposedly have 8 patients a day, the current clinic takes 4 patients a day as far as I know

Ok who told you they’re going to do 8 patients per day? We need to put a stop to these rumors unless we have solid facts. There have been nearly a dozen results posted and another happy member post their results on this very thread. Two unhappy patients and one poster with an agenda are going to spread a rumor without facts. 

Moving forward, no hearsay only facts should be said. None of this “I heard he doesn’t do incisions” or “I heard he’s doing 8 patients a day” unless you have proof or that was your experience, don’t mention it, because this is unfair to the doctor and clinic.

thank you guys for your cooperation.

[Bill - Seemiller]

1 hour ago, Payam said:

Could ask you the same question mate, if I ignore the good results then you certainly are ignoring the bad ones of which there are plenty, I am not trying to dissuade anyone, I have never said "don't go there", it's important we are transparent about things though, had I personally known some of the things I know today I would have picked a different clinic. If we can't objectively discuss the negative aspects of different clinics then what is the point of this forum?

@Payam,

 But what you are missing is that there are far more positive results than the bad ones that you’re referencing. Frankly, I’ve seen a couple results that may be questionable and only two that I have seen have been confirmed patients of the clinic. Others have made comments but have not substantiated that they were actually patients. 

 If I did a search on this forum, I would find a multitude of satisfied patients and even more excellent results posted by the clinic. As I said, two results that are a bit questionable compared to dozens of positive results does not make the clinic unreputable and subpar. 

 Frankly, I happen to agree with the above post your dad it certainly seems that you have an agenda here to persuade other members not to go to this clinic and frankly, this goes against our policy is as you are unfairly maligning this Dr.. He has recommending here for good reason.  

At this point, I feel that you’ve had your say and I don’t want to see you going from topic to topic trying to persuade members not to go to this doctor  just because you seem to have an agenda against him. 

 Frankly, if you were making valid point I would support your ongoing involvement however, you’re just paddling the same garbage that’s not even accurate and it’s  affecting peoples lives.  

So at this point, I asked that you move onto other topics and keep off of this one. 

Regards,

Bill

[PGDMMB]

2 minutes ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

@Payam,

 But what you are missing is that there are far more positive results than the bad ones that you’re referencing. Frankly, I’ve seen a couple results that may be questionable and only two that I have seen have been confirmed patients of the clinic. Others have made comments but have not substantiated that they were actually patients. 

 If I did a search on this forum, I would find a multitude of satisfied patients and even more excellent results posted by the clinic. As I said, two results that are a bit questionable compared to dozens of positive results does not make the clinic unreputable and subpar. 

 Frankly, I happen to agree with the above post your dad it certainly seems that you have an agenda here to persuade other members not to go to this clinic and frankly, this goes against our policy is as you are unfairly maligning this Dr.. He has recommending here for good reason.  

At this point, I feel that you’ve had your say and I don’t want to see you going from topic to topic trying to persuade members not to go to this doctor  just because you seem to have an agenda against him. 

 Frankly, if you were making valid point I would support your ongoing involvement however, you’re just paddling the same garbage that’s not even accurate and it’s  affecting peoples lives.  

So at this point, I asked that you move onto other topics and keep off of this one. 

Regards,

Bill

Could you please point me in the direction of recent satisfied paitents who have had work done on their hairline. Because I am struggling to find them. I am finding happy people who have had 5000+ Grafts, but hairline reviews that I have found have come back pluggy and unnatural. 

 

 

[PGDMMB]

7 minutes ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

@Payam,

 But what you are missing is that there are far more positive results than the bad ones that you’re referencing. Frankly, I’ve seen a couple results that may be questionable and only two that I have seen have been confirmed patients of the clinic. Others have made comments but have not substantiated that they were actually patients. 

 If I did a search on this forum, I would find a multitude of satisfied patients and even more excellent results posted by the clinic. As I said, two results that are a bit questionable compared to dozens of positive results does not make the clinic unreputable and subpar. 

 Frankly, I happen to agree with the above post your dad it certainly seems that you have an agenda here to persuade other members not to go to this clinic and frankly, this goes against our policy is as you are unfairly maligning this Dr.. He has recommending here for good reason.  

At this point, I feel that you’ve had your say and I don’t want to see you going from topic to topic trying to persuade members not to go to this doctor  just because you seem to have an agenda against him. 

 Frankly, if you were making valid point I would support your ongoing involvement however, you’re just paddling the same garbage that’s not even accurate and it’s  affecting peoples lives.  

So at this point, I asked that you move onto other topics and keep off of this one. 

Regards,

Bill

To be honest I skip past 5000+ reviews because they do not match the procedure I am due to have done, so I do not compare myself to them.

2500 - 3500 grafts is what I have been quoted and are the reviews that are more relevant to my hair loss. 

Whether or not erdogan is producing good, natural hairlines is what needs to be taken into consideration for this topic. Not reviews from  blokes with advance hair loss (nearly bald) who are just happy to have hair on their head.

[LordBaldwin]

5 minutes ago, PGDMMB said:

To be honest I skip past 5000+ reviews because they do not match the procedure I am due to have done, so I do not compare myself to them.

2500 - 3500 grafts is what I have been quoted and are the reviews that are more relevant to my hair loss. 

Whether or not erdogan is producing good, natural hairlines is what needs to be taken into consideration for this topic. Not reviews from  blokes with advance hair loss (nearly bald) who are just happy to have hair on their head.

Well, I hope I'm not breaking any rules by doing this, but here's a sample of what I found (some of which were posted by the clinic):

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post143753.html#p143753 (clinic posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post143091.html#p143091 (clinic posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post142251.html#p142251 (clinic posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post134808.html#p134808 (user posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post129714.html#p129714 (clinic posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post128899.html#p128899 (user posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post122036.html#p122036 (clinic posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post119091.html#p119091 (user posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post118605.html#p118605 (clinic posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post114505.html#p114505 (user posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/xababa-3200-fue-koray-erdogan-asmed-t6407.html (user posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/post97719.html#p97719 (clinic posted)

http://www.international-hairlossforum.com/elcombatante-koray-erdogan-asmed-3300-fue-t6070-30.html (user posted)

 

Also, did you happen to look at the clinic's website at the Norwood 2 and 3 results pages?

[Bill - Seemiller]

16 minutes ago, PGDMMB said:

Could you please point me in the direction of recent satisfied paitents who have had work done on their hairline. Because I am struggling to find them. I am finding happy people who have had 5000+ Grafts, but hairline reviews that I have found have come back pluggy and unnatural. 

 

 

@PGDMMB,

I am happy to send you some examples but if you research at all, you should’ve been able to find a multitude of them. I spent 10 minutes looking for examples and found 4  patient posted results that are very recent and they are all very happy. And they’re hairlines look fantastic. 

 I posted the fifth one because even though many more months are needed before the result comes in, he obviously looks on par to have outstanding results. I’m sure they will look fantastic when they grow in. 

 Remember, this is after I looked around for only 10 minutes. If you take some time to look around, you’ll find a whole lot more. 

 

 

[Bill - Seemiller]

@LordBaldwin,

 Typically, we don’t allow posts two other discussion forums because they don’t typically allow old posts back to us. However, since this poster is in the process of making an important decision, I will leave your posts because it will help him make a decision. I posted 4 examples That have been posted by patients very recently. It only took me 10 minutes to collect all the links and read through the topics to see that these posters have share their experience and then their end result which they were very happy with.   

If  I was the original poster, I would be searching this doctor‘s name on this forum for hours and frankly, he would find dozens additional examples of patient posted results were very happy. Only two patients that have confirmed themselves as patience and are fully matured in their growth have expressed genuine concerns. 

Bill

[LordBaldwin]

17 minutes ago, PGDMMB said:

To be honest I skip past 5000+ reviews because they do not match the procedure I am due to have done, so I do not compare myself to them.

2500 - 3500 grafts is what I have been quoted and are the reviews that are more relevant to my hair loss. 

Whether or not erdogan is producing good, natural hairlines is what needs to be taken into consideration for this topic. Not reviews from  blokes with advance hair loss (nearly bald) who are just happy to have hair on their head.

I've noticed that in a lot of the cases where patients have 4000+ grafts, they still have around 3000 in the frontal area, but about 1000-2000 at the vertex as well.  Even in these larger sessions, the clinic is still building the hairline and the frontal area.  

[vchorro]

5 minutes ago, LordBaldwin said:

I've noticed that in a lot of the cases where patients have 4000+ grafts, they still have around 3000 in the frontal area, but about 1000-2000 at the vertex as well.  Even in these larger sessions, the clinic is still building the hairline and the frontal area.  

For example: my surgery

Usually when we have a large amount of grafts implanted, ASMED separates the whole surgery in two days. One for the frontal area, and the other for the crown area.

In my case, for example, the first day was only for my frontal area, which was filled with 3.000 grafts.

[LordBaldwin]

9 minutes ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

@LordBaldwin,

 Typically, we don’t allow posts two other discussion forums because they don’t typically allow old posts back to us. However, since this poster is in the process of making an important decision, I will leave your posts because it will help him make a decision. I posted 4 examples That have been posted by patients very recently. It only took me 10 minutes to collect all the links and read through the topics to see that these posters have share their experience and then their end result which they were very happy with.   

If  I was the original poster, I would be searching this doctor‘s name on this forum for hours and frankly, he would find dozens additional examples of patient posted results were very happy. Only two patients that have confirmed themselves as patience and are fully matured in their growth have expressed genuine concerns. 

Bill

Alright, I'll keep that in mind for the future.  Thanks!

[Melvin- Admin]

In my opinion, I think the originating poster has already made up his mind. There are dozens of results that he could find on this forum with minor hair loss, for example justjax is popular member that comes to mind. However, it seems negative reviews attract the most attention. At this point, I think this thread has ran it's course, the results are there for anyone to see, obviously there are aspects to the clinic that everyone will agree with and fair enough, but the price is also a lot cheaper than clinics in Europe and North America. I've always said go by results and not price, so if you feel another doctor will give you the best results go with them.

Warm regards- Melvin

[cali101]

Melvin in relation to your question on the increase in number of patients. I was at Asmed in July and was walking around the hotel and I saw a huge new  building and took a picture. (attached)I later showed this to my coordinator and she started telling me about the new clinic. They will have more rooms for patients to stay a gym etc... She also mentioned fact that they would be able to accommodate up to 8 patients.

This fact should be very easy to verify as I am almost certain the new clinic will be opening in the next several months. Can you not simply ask the clinic? I do not think this is relevant as I strongly think they will still have good results and if they do not they will fix the problems or reduce the patients. People need to realize Asmed has a process and they do it very well. If you are looking for a Doctor who does everything this is not your clinic but I cannot reiterate enough that Dr Koray is a perfectionist and has a very high standard. I have read a story I believe on this board where a patient was not happy and he even PAID to fly him back to Istanbul from the United States.(I can imagine that most doctors might agree to fix the problem but the fact he is paying for the  return trip shows you he cares about patients.

Have the people who are unhappy asked for a repair? If so I imagine Asmed at their expense would fix the problem.

My only concern is seeing all the doubles and triples in the hairline... why is this happening...maybe the singles that they pack in are not surviving? I say this because I noticed a double at the front of my hairline but hoping the singles simply haven't grown in yet.

[Sean]

Pull out if you have any doubt.  Never go in if you feel uncomfortable.  Later on you will be doubting it if you do not yield well and some forum folks may slam you for it.  

See if you can get 100% manual fue nice and slow vs other extraction methods.  I feel that really limits the amount of risk as there are multiple risks as is.  Maybe that might be a safer approach.  Best of luck.

[Melvin- Admin]

58 minutes ago, cali101 said:

Melvin in relation to your question on the increase in number of patients. I was at Asmed in July and was walking around the hotel and I saw a huge new  building and took a picture. (attached)I later showed this to my coordinator and she started telling me about the new clinic. They will have more rooms for patients to stay a gym etc... She also mentioned fact that they would be able to accommodate up to 8 patients.

This fact should be very easy to verify as I am almost certain the new clinic will be opening in the next several months. Can you not simply ask the clinic? I do not think this is relevant as I strongly think they will still have good results and if they do not they will fix the problems or reduce the patients. People need to realize Asmed has a process and they do it very well. If you are looking for a Doctor who does everything this is not your clinic but I cannot reiterate enough that Dr Koray is a perfectionist and has a very high standard. I have read a story I believe on this board where a patient was not happy and he even PAID to fly him back to Istanbul from the United States.(I can imagine that most doctors might agree to fix the problem but the fact he is paying for the  return trip shows you he cares about patients.

Have the people who are unhappy asked for a repair? If so I imagine Asmed at their expense would fix the problem.

My only concern is seeing all the doubles and triples in the hairline... why is this happening...maybe the singles that they pack in are not surviving? I say this because I noticed a double at the front of my hairline but hoping the singles simply haven't grown in yet.

Well for one having the space to accommodate 8 patients is different from doing 8 surgeries per day. In fact, what you just described is an assumption not a statement or fact. I don’t see the need to confirm with the clinic since they never said they would perform 8 surgeries a day that was your assumption. Payam is at 7 months therefore, it’s too soon to even call his procedure a failure and HT has been offered a free touch-up which he declined. In fact, it seems his only goal is to try and undermine the clinic in every thread and post possible. I understand being disappointed and unhappy with results, but you get further dealing directly with  the clinic rather than trying to muddy up the clinics reputation. 

[Raker]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Well for one having the space to accommodate 8 patients is different from doing 8 surgeries per day. In fact, what you just described is an assumption not a statement or fact. I don’t see the need to confirm with the clinic since they never said they would perform 8 surgeries a day that was your assumption. Payam is at 7 months therefore, it’s too soon to even call his procedure a failure and HT has been offered a free touch-up which he declined. In fact, it seems his only goal is to try and undermine the clinic in every thread and post possible. I understand being disappointed and unhappy with results, but you get further dealing directly with  the clinic rather than trying to muddy up the clinics reputation. 

Melvin, let’s get real, assuming that Asmed are relocating, to justify the financial & capital outlay will not be to accommodate additional patients Erdogan is running a business for financial gain, he’s going to up the throughput, period. That said, we all understand what you get, tech driven with limited personal involvement. Time to put a lid on this thread, getting tiresome. 

[ATM110]

Thanks to this thread i decided to do some digging of my own as i don't believe people don't just start having agenda for no particular reason.

I decided to have a look at other forums as i found Asmed to good to be true on this one. I also thought the bulldog bullying behaviour towards HT and Payam was very sad when they are sharing their own personal experience.

Asmed clearly has a density problem especially people with coarse hair.

To me Asmed hairlines look like my wooden broom i sweep my outdoor patio floor with.

i have found 2 links from the Italian forum for you all to see 

 - this poor guy went back to Asmed for repair work after first surgery with them failed because of low density. i now know why HT was worried about going back

 - this poor guy is suffering from low density, i now know why Payam has concerns. 

If you look closely at hair grafts along frontal something doesn't look right , i believe its the actual design of how the grafts are laid out across hairline to give natural look.

Top surgeons suggest choose the thinnest single hair grafts to give natural finish, Asmed certainly doesn't do this.

No hair transplant will look natural if hairs are aligned neatly across frontal hairline. It will look odd.