Are Hair Transplants an “Illusion” of density?

[JayLDD]

 

On 6/13/2019 at 12:05 AM, gbhscot said:

Hey Melvin,

Pics look great - can I ask why you didn't just stick with shaved though? Really suited you. In terms of the maintenance, tbh I'm fine with styling it every day and using fibres, but it's the thought of going through the discomfort and the financial outlay of a HT to persistently feel the same sickening kind of stress I've felt in the last years whilst disguising it - that puts me off big time. How is that from your perspective? Do you ever get sick of worrying about it? Obviously for you the rewards outweight it, but i'm interested to hear how it impacts your day to day.

"can I ask why you didn't just stick with shaved though? Really suited you"

I know some people love to try and be nice/positive in all circumstances, but do you really believe this? The reality is that most people (importantly women) would look at the before shot and think he looks below average, potentially even somewhat creepy and a decade older than his age. For a guy in their late twenties the before shot looks outright terrible, no one in the world would be happy looking like this with the choice. Looks aren't everything and one can have a decent life as a bald guy but lets be real about what people find attractive.

In the after shot he looks well above average for his age and significantly younger than the before's. You'd be hard pressed to find better hair transplant advertisement than this pairing.

If you feel that you'd worry over it being picked out as a transplant and can't see the reason to get one in these photos (plus by the sounds of it the money might not be justified". 

[harry_potter1]

9 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I told my current gf on our 3rd date. I also told her to not be surprised when I wash my fibers out lol. My crown is a lot thinner, she said “that’s okay my face doesn’t look like this when I wash off my make up either” that’s when I knew she was a keeper haha.

Wow, that is cool. 😂

Thanks for sharing 

[Vickykuril]

Any thoughts about these results 

 

Edited June 14, 2019 by Vickykuril

[gbhscot]

9 hours ago, JayLDD said:

 

"can I ask why you didn't just stick with shaved though? Really suited you"

I know some people love to try and be nice/positive in all circumstances, but do you really believe this? The reality is that most people (importantly women) would look at the before shot and think he looks below average, potentially even somewhat creepy and a decade older than his age. For a guy in their late twenties the before shot looks outright terrible, no one in the world would be happy looking like this with the choice. Looks aren't everything and one can have a decent life as a bald guy but lets be real about what people find attractive.

In the after shot he looks well above average for his age and significantly younger than the before's. You'd be hard pressed to find better hair transplant advertisement than this pairing.

If you feel that you'd worry over it being picked out as a transplant and can't see the reason to get one in these photos (plus by the sounds of it the money might not be justified". 

Honestly, I would disagree. What the last week of my life has taught me is that once you're in the rabbit hole of hair loss forums and transplant critiquing, you become myopic about the importance of hair for the general aesthetic. It's a vaccum which sucks all other aspects of looks towards it. I've realized how little the rest of the world see's it like that. Also, nothing will age you more than balding, and if a HT can't get an individual beyond a balding look, I question if it's more hassle than it's worth?

I was so down recently about my hair, I'd go as far as to say suicidal, I was constantly panicking about the trade off between my looks and mental health and having to gamble with my health on starting propecia and getting a HT. My reality is that I'm an NW5 diffuse thinner, probably too far gone to get a decent result anyways, particularly without propecia. I felt totally blocked in, no choices left. My gf made me shave it, and moreso, made me start paying attention to myself as a whole, not HAIR+me. I don't think I look better without hair now, but nor do I think I look worse, and nor do I think that it's really a big deal for anyone else. Hair is taken out of the equation, so suddenly other features are the focal point, not the lack of one.

I'd say to everyone on here - get a HT, sure. Do your research, don't be put off by the thought it's an illusion but be realistic. But before that, shave it off, see how you look and feel, and really ask if its better for you personally to take the worry out your life. These forums seem to turn confident guys almost into Incels in my experience.

 

And btw, I'm not ruling out ever getting a hair transplant, maybe one day - but f**k me, the feeling of liberation from worry right now is an incredible weight of my shoulders.

[harry_potter1]

4 hours ago, gbhscot said:

Honestly, I would disagree. What the last week of my life has taught me is that once you're in the rabbit hole of hair loss forums and transplant critiquing, you become myopic about the importance of hair for the general aesthetic. It's a vaccum which sucks all other aspects of looks towards it. I've realized how little the rest of the world see's it like that. Also, nothing will age you more than balding, and if a HT can't get an individual beyond a balding look, I question if it's more hassle than it's worth?

I was so down recently about my hair, I'd go as far as to say suicidal, I was constantly panicking about the trade off between my looks and mental health and having to gamble with my health on starting propecia and getting a HT. My reality is that I'm an NW5 diffuse thinner, probably too far gone to get a decent result anyways, particularly without propecia. I felt totally blocked in, no choices left. My gf made me shave it, and moreso, made me start paying attention to myself as a whole, not HAIR+me. I don't think I look better without hair now, but nor do I think I look worse, and nor do I think that it's really a big deal for anyone else. Hair is taken out of the equation, so suddenly other features are the focal point, not the lack of one.

I'd say to everyone on here - get a HT, sure. Do your research, don't be put off by the thought it's an illusion but be realistic. But before that, shave it off, see how you look and feel, and really ask if its better for you personally to take the worry out your life. These forums seem to turn confident guys almost into Incels in my experience.

 

And btw, I'm not ruling out ever getting a hair transplant, maybe one day - but f**k me, the feeling of liberation from worry right now is an incredible weight of my shoulders.

First, I am happy for you that you have made peace with hair loss.

But each person is his own. 

I kind of agree that if someone can make peace with losing his hair/shaving his head, then HT is a no go.

But we aren't all the same, and for many people shaving hair looks bad and is a  boring routine they aren't gonna stick to. 

I myself shaved my head once (will, was grade 2 tbh) when I served in the army, and simply I didn't look the same and couldn't accept my look. 

Right now I am diffused NW5, and tbh I still don't like shaving it, and I am reaching a point where I don't like seeing my face in the mirror. I just look way older and uglier than I used to be.

For me, and many other. HT is a huge improvement for sure. The "balding" look can be way improvement over the bald one in many cases. Huge difference actually.

The only thing I will argue, is that people shouldn't accept middle ground. 

For me, I would either go to a top notch doctor if I can afford it, or skip the whole process all together. But won't go to clinics were I am playing the lottery, with many good and many mediocre results.

That one isn't worth it, I would give you that 

[gbhscot]

8 minutes ago, harry_potter1 said:

First, I am happy for you that you have made peace with hair loss.

But each person is his own. 

I kind of agree that if someone can make peace with losing his hair/shaving his head, then HT is a no go.

But we aren't all the same, and for many people shaving hair looks bad and is a  boring routine they aren't gonna stick to. 

I myself shaved my head once (will, was grade 2 tbh) when I served in the army, and simply I didn't look the same and couldn't accept my look. 

Right now I am diffused NW5, and tbh I still don't like shaving it, and I am reaching a point where I don't like seeing my face in the mirror. I just look way older and uglier than I used to be.

For me, and many other. HT is a huge improvement for sure. The "balding" look can be way improvement over the bald one in many cases. Huge difference actually.

The only thing I will argue, is that people shouldn't accept middle ground. 

For me, I would either go to a top notch doctor if I can afford it, or skip the whole process all together. But won't go to clinics were I am playing the lottery, with many good and many mediocre results.

That one isn't worth it, I would give you that 

Hi Harry,

Thanks for replying. Totally agree - every man must decide for himself and we all know how we prefer to look. 

What you describe was my exact situation. And at first, I probably hated how I looked in the mirror after shaving just as much...for about a day. Then it started to grow on me, its maybe just novelty, but it's actually so clean looking that it's hard not to like. My fear as a diffuse NW5 is that the best we can hope for is middle ground... even the best transplant is still going to be pretty thin, and the maintenance required to keep up the illusion is going to be hard going.

To your last point - I agree and disagree - if I get a HT, I'll not go with some Turkish hack mill, but I won't go for anything above 5K. 1) cos it's more than I can justify, and 2) I think the discrepancy in outcome is closing a lot and 3) I know not to expect a miracle, I'd want hair to get me through the next decade, getting married etc, from 40 onwards, bald guys tend to look younger IMO. For me, it's pointless to invest too much. Like I said, all my own opinion.

All i'm saying with these posts is to try and look at yourself without the baldness glasses on (which you've done tbf). Then it's time to make a call on it IMO.

 

[gillenator]

Do you have any pics of your hairline that shows a closer view?

The hairline looks very symmetrical and if there were some single hair grafts added to stagger the commencement and give it more artistry...that would help.

[ItHasToLookNatural]

On 10/26/2018 at 2:55 PM, Spanker said:

Man, that sure is a super big difference in the photos. 

Spanker,

You have what many here might deem a top result from a top surgeon. Is the contrast between fair conditions and harsh conditions as depicted in Melvin's OP similar for you, as good as your results are? 

[Al - Moderator]

You can't get full density. Read further to understand why it may look like someone got that.

Put the palm of one hand with your fingers touching together on top of your head facing back with wrist starting at the hairline.  That is roughly about a NW 6 pattern. Now put both palms on the sides of your head. You'll see that two palms cover the donor area and one palm for NW 6 area, so the donor area is twice the size of the bald area even in a NW 6. Obviously this is a very rough example, but I need you to see that for the next part.

If your natural hair before you lost any was at the low end of full density at 70 grafts per square centimeter and your friend is at the higher end at 105 grafts per square centimeter, you both are considered to have full density and no hair loss. Some years later you both start losing hair in the same pattern. Eventually you both become a NW 6 with the same exact size bald area and you both have the exact same head size and the exact same donor area. Your donor areas are twice as large as your bald area (see first paragraph).

Your friend decides to get a hair transplant and wants full density as thick as he can get it, so the Dr takes out 35 grafts per centimeter from his donor area and is able to plant grafts in the entire bald area at 70 grafts per square centimeter since the bald area is only half the size of the donor area. Let's assume everything went perfectly and he gets 100% growth. After the hair transplant fully grows in he now has 70 grafts per centimeter throughout his entire head. You think WOW! He got totally full density, so you go to the same Dr and you want the same procedure.

The problem is that you can't get 70 grafts per centimeter in your bald area because it would take 35 grafts per centimeter from your donor area. That would leave only 35 grafts per centimeter left there which would be much too thin. So the Dr takes as much as he can which he determines is 20 grafts per centimeter, so he is then able to plant your bald area at 40 grafts per centimeter.

Assuming again that everything went perfectly and you get 100% growth, after your hair fully grows in and matures, your hair looks much thinner than your friend's hair. You can see through the hairline and across the entire top of your head when your hair is wet and your donor area is looking somewhat thin and depleted.

Then you go to a hair transplant forum and complain that the Dr botched your job because you don't have the same hair density as your friend and you can even show pictures of both you and your friend to prove it. Are you right? NO. You don't have the same hair density after the transplant because you didn't have the same hair density BEFORE the hair transplant. You just didn't notice before because the more density there is the less noticeable any differences are.

Did your friend really get full density? Well that's hard to say. It may still fall into the range of full density, but that's because he was at the high end before, so dropping some will still put him in the normal range, although he is now at the low end of normal. It's NOT full density for HIM. Full density for HIM would be 105 grafts per square centimeter and he dropped all the way down to 70, but since you started at the lower end to begin with, even just a little less than what you started with is going to look thin.... and there is no way around that because you can only move around the hair that you have... unless you add beard or other body hair, but that's another topic.

And we didn't even get into differing hair characteristics such as thickness of individual hairs which can make this example even more extreme because it would take twice as much grafts to look the same as someone with twice as thick hair shafts as you.

I hope you understand.

 

Edited July 23, 2019 by BeHappy

[Melvin- Admin]

Ok my laptop crashed on Friday so I’ve been working from my phone. But this video had to be done. In fact, it’s long overdue. I hope everyone considering a hair transplant watches this video in its entirety. 

 

[LonelyGraft]

2 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Ok my laptop crashed on Friday so I’ve been working from my phone. But this video had to be done. In fact, it’s long overdue. I hope everyone considering a hair transplant watches this video in its entirety. 

 

@Aftermath‘s head of hair would beg to differ 😉

[Melvin- Admin]

9 minutes ago, jj51702 said:

@Aftermath‘s head of hair would beg to differ 😉

He makes us all envious 😬

[gbhscot]

9 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Ok my laptop crashed on Friday so I’ve been working from my phone. But this video had to be done. In fact, it’s long overdue. I hope everyone considering a hair transplant watches this video in its entirety. 

 

This shows what I mean in one of my above posts too - without being on a hair transplant forum, if you saw a guy get out of a pool with Melvins hair, you wouldn't once think of hair loss. We become too precious about it because we are conditioned to look for it. 

[Melvin- Admin]

5 hours ago, gbhscot said:

This shows what I mean in one of my above posts too - without being on a hair transplant forum, if you saw a guy get out of a pool with Melvins hair, you wouldn't once think of hair loss. We become too precious about it because we are conditioned to look for it. 

A lot of the guys who post here have slight OCD and will obsess over any tiny imperfection. While I agree, it’s clear my hair is see through when wet. This fact is unacceptable to a lot of guys here.

That said, any person losing hair who saw me in the pool would probably say I’m losing hair too. That’s 100% fine by me. I made peace with not looking perfect the day I got in the surgeons chair.

I realize I may have been too quick to move on camera so I’ve taken a still picture of my hair at a perfect angle directly in the sun, wet and slightly spread apart.

You can definitely see scalp. I could’ve easily came here and raised a stink and bashed my surgeon, by only posting pictures like this. 

[Melvin- Admin]

As a comparison here’s a picture with my hair dry. Facts: lighting, wet hair, hair length, and certain hair products affect the appearance of the hair. 

[Mycroft]

That after image doesn't have concealers, correct? 

I have always had hair trending towards medium/fine, so my hair always looked terrible wet even before I started experiencing any hair loss. For me, my concern has always been whether I can make it look good consistently. I knew I had a problem when it took forever to style my hair in a way that would make me comfortable, and when it seemed harder and harder to make that happen I really started to worry.

[Al - Moderator]

Great video, Melvin. Most men going for hair transplants have a tendency to compare themselves to others and while that's understandable and fine, you also have to compare yourself to the previous you. Take a look at Melvin's pre transplant NW 6 pictures and compare that to his hair now. Which hair would you like to have if those were your choices? I'm sure Melvin would like to have thicker hair, but what he has now is so much better than where he was a few years ago. Nobody is going to look at him today and call him the bald guy.

 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

27 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

That after image doesn't have concealers, correct? 

I have always had hair trending towards medium/fine, so my hair always looked terrible wet even before I started experiencing any hair loss. For me, my concern has always been whether I can make it look good consistently. I knew I had a problem when it took forever to style my hair in a way that would make me comfortable, and when it seemed harder and harder to make that happen I really started to worry.

Correct no concealers in that picture. I’m standing in the same place too facing the sun.

[Melvin- Admin]

12 minutes ago, BeHappy said:

Great video, Melvin. Most men going for hair transplants have a tendency to compare themselves to others and while that's understandable and fine, you also have to compare yourself to the previous you. Take a look at Melvin's pre transplant NW 6 pictures and compare that to his hair now. Which hair would you like to have if those were your choices? I'm sure Melvin would like to have thicker hair, but what he has now is so much better than where he was a few years ago. Nobody is going to look at him today and call him the bald guy.

 

 

You hit the nail on the head. This is the problem with society nowadays. 

People join a gym to lose weight. They  lose 20 lbs then look at the guy next to them with abs and quit because they don’t look like that. Instead of feeling proud for getting to the gym and making progress.

It’s all about perspective and lately this forum was falling victim to the wrong kind of unhealthy perspectives.

[Mycroft]

Just now, Melvin-Moderator said:

Correct no concealers in that picture. I’m standing in the same place too facing the sun.

Thanks for clarifying. I think seeing some scalp in harsh sunlight is no big deal especially since concealer legitimately will help with that if someone is super insecure. Your hairline is great and you've got enough coverage that everything is very workable with a bit of effort, and if we're not doing this for appearance what ARE we doing it for? Nobody is going to walk up to you and count the number of hairs per cm on your scalp.

[Melvin- Admin]

7 minutes ago, Mycroft said:

Thanks for clarifying. I think seeing some scalp in harsh sunlight is no big deal especially since concealer legitimately will help with that if someone is super insecure. Your hairline is great and you've got enough coverage that everything is very workable with a bit of effort, and if we're not doing this for appearance what ARE we doing it for? Nobody is going to walk up to you and count the number of hairs per cm on your scalp.

Exactly, we get caught up in these numbers and obsess over it. We should be doing everything possible to look good right! I mean we’re spending thousands of dollars.

[LonelyGraft]

5 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

A lot of the guys who post here have slight OCD and will obsess over any tiny imperfection. While I agree, it’s clear my hair is see through when wet. This fact is unacceptable to a lot of guys here.

That said, any person losing hair who saw me in the pool would probably say I’m losing hair too. That’s 100% fine by me. I made peace with not looking perfect the day I got in the surgeons chair.

I realize I may have been too quick to move on camera so I’ve taken a still picture of my hair at a perfect angle directly in the sun, wet and slightly spread apart.

You can definitely see scalp. I could’ve easily came here and raised a stink and bashed my surgeon, by only posting pictures like this. 

Melvin

does your hair have that thinner appearance all throughout your frontal third or is it more pronounced in the area you are exposing?

[Melvin- Admin]

58 minutes ago, jj51702 said:

Melvin

does your hair have that thinner appearance all throughout your frontal third or is it more pronounced in the area you are exposing?

My entire head has that appearance if it’s wet under direct light. That said, it doesn’t have a thinning appearance when its dry. As shown in the picture above. 

I chose the worst possible angle and lighting to prove a point. If you want your HT to look bad you can definitely do it. 

[Dr. Vikas Gupta]

Thanks For Sharing Informative Information with us.

Today I will discuss an important concept in Hair Transplant Procedures known as “the illusion of density”. Patients with minimal hair loss can request "dense packing", a thickening technique that can achieve very high density. it is Depending on the hair loss, we can implant up to 50-60 'grafts' or 100-120 hairs per square centimeter.

 

[gbhscot]

Anecdote from today at work : I'm 5 weeks post op, shed maybe 30/40% maybe. Big red head, ugly duck hairs poking straight up everywhere. Colleagues know about HT. One of them who is NW7(more NW34) asks me if I'm happy with it. I say it's early days so need to see. His reply "But it looks like a full head of hair now, you wouldn't notice a thing wrong with it, I'd be thrilled". Other colleagues agree are are already impressed with density. I know it's 5 weeks in and looks terrible. Shows you the difference of experienced eye and what everyone else see's. Your illusion is an illusion to you only.