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Are Hair Transplants an “Illusion” of density?

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On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 7:31 PM, HT0416 said:

with wet hair. 3000 grafts to frontal area

4A6D2576-76F8-426B-BD8E-4BEC408A0FAC.jpeg

Actually the density looks very good here for wet hair. But to be honest, these pics are so low quality: Had to tell. The design of the hairline is not my taste either, but it is Erdogans obviously and I feel is it the taste of his average patient. If you go straight to surgery you just have a few minutes to think about the hairline. It is a risk. I went to my clinic twice before the surgery and hade pictures of the drawn hairline to look at for month!

Regarding the angles: Micro errors are not detectable due to poor quality of the pics, but it is clear that you have a change in direction close to the middle. This will lead to some hairs sticking straight up. The questions is: Is this how your normal hair is angled? Maybe it was the only way to do it.

Anyway: The way you present your hair is the worst possible way. I doubt any transplant would look great.

From what I see you can easily make a minor touch up and end up with a top notch result.

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Coming back to the topic:

1. Yes, HT are an Illusion. With 35-55 FU /cm2 you try to mimic 70-110 FU/cm2. This only works if you style it right afterwards.

2. No clinic will guarantee you growth. I have seen poor growth from H&W in a strip case (and H&W are world class), which puts less stress on the grafts than anyone can do (young tech girl or experienced surgeon) with FUE.

That is why you have to plan carefully.

Edited by Gasthoerer
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19 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

You can use hair spray that will give you a wet look, but stay away from gel and greasy pomades. Stick with dry cream based wax. I personally use redken manuever cream pomade. Also, stick with thin tooth combs.

I use shiny (wet look) pomade but the classic ones (wax and vaseline instead of water based ) and a brush from wild boar. The latter is much, much finer than the finest comb. Works perfect since 100 years, long before HT exists.

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Go to asmed look like a hair transplant model a year later, modelling a bad hair transplant

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9 hours ago, Kiwi Guy said:

So a lot of the "full head of hair" results you see on these surgeons own websites are nothing more than illusion? This scares me... I really appreciate guys like you sharing your stories and being so open about everything but it is daunting to think of the proposition of spending this amount of money just to have a result that is far less then the photo's actually show you. I get all the logistics... I've spent hours reading threads on this site over the last month. One moment I feel as though I have found the surgeon I want to go with, then the next minute I see a less than stellar result and it takes me back to square one in my decision making process. It's actually making me think of just going bald and using SMP... that way I am not risking the ugly scarring etc... this is a lot more difficult of a decision than I originally assumed it would be.

Yes, those are illusions, that is hair restoration. Hair restoration does not create new hair. Therefore, you’re simply re-arranging existing hair and placing the grafts strategically to make it “appear” as if you have a full head of hair, but it’s not true native density. SMP is the same thing it’s an illusion of hair, when in reality it’s merely pigment mimicking hair. Perhaps, a hair sysyem will suit you better. At the end of the day, I’m glad this thread is serving its purpose and possibly stopping some guys out there from being disappointed.

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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3 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Yes, those are illusions, that is hair restoration. Hair restoration does not create new hair. Therefore, you’re simply re-arranging existing hair and placing the grafts strategically to make it “appear” as if you have a full head of hair, but it’s not true native density. SMP is the same thing it’s an illusion of hair, when in reality it’s merely pigment mimicking hair. Perhaps, a hair sysyem will suit you better. At the end of the day, I’m glad this thread is serving its purpose and possibly stopping some guys out there from being disappointed.

Thanks for the brutal honesty Melvin. I find it more informative and usable than any delusions of grandeur as it relates to HT. For me personally I will continue to find the right surgeon because I would rather have more hair on my head than less and that's basically what it comes down to.

Edited for a spelling error.

Edited by Kiwi Guy

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You can always go in for a small FUE procedure and use some single hair grafts to give the hairline a more staggered natural appearamce...it would not take that many grafts yet it can potentially make a huge positive visual difference.


Gillenator

Independent Patient Advocate

I am not a physician and not employed by any doctor/clinic. My opinions are not medical advice, but are my own views which you read at your own risk.

Supporting Physicians:  Dr. Robert True & Dr. Robert Dorin, New York, NY

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1 hour ago, SanDiegan said:

Melvin what do you think about this result, do you think its illusion as well?

https://youtu.be/Vafx7zabs8k

100% it's an illusion. For one the before video is in a brighter setting. The after results is in a much dimmer location. Now I'm not accusing them of anything, these are just the facts. Secondly, the video is showing dry hair, which is absolutely normal. However, I would bet that you would see some scalp with wet hair.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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I don't think its an illusion. There is a difference between good and bad ht result.  If you have an average result, the way you style your hair could change the look drastically. Of course no hair transplantation can bring your 18 year old density but if the growth rate is around %90s and densely packed, no matter you comb the hair in any way the look wouldn't drastically change. In this video I don't think there is a lightening trick that you can understand how dense his hair is by looking at his hairline and the location is not that dark. Plus, seeing the scalp with wet hair doesn't mean that the hair is not dense enough and there is an illusion.

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14 minutes ago, SanDiegan said:

I don't think its an illusion. There is a difference between good and bad ht result.  If you have an average result, the way you style your hair could change the look drastically. Of course no hair transplantation can bring your 18 year old density but if the growth rate is around %90s and densely packed, no matter you comb the hair in any way the look wouldn't drastically change. In this video I don't think there is a lightening trick that you can understand how dense his hair is by looking at his hairline and the location is not that dark. Plus, seeing the scalp with wet hair doesn't mean that the hair is not dense enough and there is an illusion.

If that’s what you believe I’m not going to try and convince you otherwise. The issues I pointed out are clear as day. I’m not saying it’s a lighting trick, I’m merely stating the facts.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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Posted (edited)

Is Dr Couto recommended on this site? These results are stunning

Edited by chicago2017
Editing

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Melvins hair looks quite natural really.  It doesnt look off or something odd to the eye.  He definitely has reasons to be very happy.  

 

Clearly, in everyday setting, Melvin looks great and looks normal.  No eyes would stare at his scalp but rather his face.  Thats when you know your situation is normal.  

I just dont know but sometimes you just wish.  Wish someday to be happy 

Fml

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11 hours ago, chicago2017 said:

This is not illusion. This is called a good result. 

agreed. a good doctor can get an illusion. a great doctor/result is a full blown homerun and full density (keeping in mind the limitations of 18y/o density)

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Posted (edited)

As  a NW  5-6 and after having 4200 FUE grafts over 4 years ago ..of course there's an element of illusion with my hair ..and I would need the crown to be addressed for the illusion to be conplete ..although as I am 57 this year do I really want to bother as toppik does a good job iof covering the crown ..and if I used dermatch as well I'm sure nobody would notice any thinning even in the crown .

Attached photos taken today ..I guess it all depends how do you define an illusion ..If anything less than native density is  the criteria well I guess yea all transplants are an illusion.. OK only  pics and video ..but some of the lower NW's transplants  as shown  lets say by  Lorenzo and Couto look pretty damn close  .

 

First  and second pic pre op... third   pic hair slightly damp .no toppik.   fourth  pic the lightest sprinkling of toppik ..I did a 3.5 year post op thread  anyone can check out that post ..all pics without topik there ...

20190309_145019.jpg

20190309_144959.jpg

20190309_145215.jpg

20190309_142951.jpg

Edited by Mick50
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Posted (edited)

for me, even having a "thinning" look after my hair transplants is way better than where I started - which was near complete baldness - therefore while I could achieve a denser look with products such as hair fibers, etc... I really don't want the extra hassle or fuss. In fact, just being able to shampoo, towel dry and add some gel and be out the door is an exhilarating freedom from the exhaustive time previously spent trying to cover up my baldness from comb-overs, hairsprays, etc.  My HTs, while definitely an illusion of coverage, have given me a great relief, and that's what I'm appreciative of most.

 

Edited by home1212
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1 hour ago, Mick50 said:

As  a NW  5-6 and after having 4200 FUE grafts over 4 years ago ..of course there's an element of illusion with my hair ..and I would need the crown to be addressed for the illusion to be conplete ..although as I am 57 this year do I really want to bother as toppik does a good job iof covering the crown ..and if I used dermatch as well I'm sure nobody would notice any thinning even in the crown .

Attached photos taken today ..I guess it all depends how do you define an illusion ..If anything less than native density is  the criteria well I guess yea all transplants are an illusion.. OK only  pics and video ..but some of the lower NW's transplants  as shown  lets say by  Lorenzo and Couto look pretty damn close  .

 

First  and second pic pre op... third   pic hair slightly damp .no toppik.   fourth  pic the lightest sprinkling of toppik ..I did a 3.5 year post op thread  anyone can check out that post ..all pics without topik there ...

20190309_145019.jpg

20190309_144959.jpg

20190309_145215.jpg

20190309_142951.jpg

Fantastic results of your “illusion”, Mick50!

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52 minutes ago, home1212 said:

for me, even having a "thinning" look after my hair transplants is way better than where I started - which was near complete baldness - therefore while I could achieve a denser look with products such as hair fibers, etc... I really don't want the extra hassle or fuss. In fact, just being able to shampoo, towel dry and add some gel and be out the door is an exhilarating freedom from the exhaustive time previously spent trying to cover up my baldness from comb-overs, hairsprays, etc.  My HTs, while definitely an illusion of coverage, have given me a great relief, and that's what I'm appreciative of most.

 

Do you have a progress & link thread about your Ht posted?

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2 hours ago, CosmoKramer said:

Fantastic results of your “illusion”, Mick50!

Thanks Cosmo , as I have said in previous posts I could handle losing my hair up to a point  but the full horseshoe look was just too much ..fair play to guys who don't let it bother them ...

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Posted (edited)
On 10/30/2018 at 2:25 PM, HT0416 said:

Asmed completly botched my hairline. Looks horrible. Cant even style it good without noticing how bad it looks

BED1CFE7-2D21-425C-B506-08C1379FCBA8.jpeg

79C24D19-B9CF-406A-AB1F-638048124A10.jpeg

2D5DC526-23F3-4716-9555-EF0BBA588D7B.jpeg

beforeht.png

And here we have the essence of this thread and the realities.  I don't see any before pics. But I will assume this was a frontal hairline rebuild job.  And being completely blunt....it is a pretty good result.  Yes, it could be more "refined" maybe more subtle transition and and I agree with another poster, I would have had higher temples. But this is very much part of being an adult and taking ownership of what you want. Not just letting someone you have never met decide your hairline. So for sure any perspective patients need to know what they want going in. It is much better than letting a stranger decide the morning of. You should design your hairline. However, perhaps more often I see patients going for too aggressive hairlines and feel doctors need to be ore reserved in giving those. I think the Dr. who did this patient actually over does hairlines. I think maybe in parts of the world where many of his patients come from that is appreciated.  

  Back to this. I see a pretty dense hairline for a HT.  I have no idea what you stated with,,,but this is solidly middle of the road looking. With 7-800 grafts it could be really maxed and be a better than average result. That the patient doesn't like the design is irrelevant. That was a communication problem and has nothing to do with the skill set. Here is the rub. Plenty of guys would love results like yours. You instead hate them. From the pics (and I doubt you sent the most flattering ones) it seems like you really have nothing to hide. In fact the forward comb down looks to me much worse than what is under it. I would say this is a better result coverage wise than Melvin. But completely a case where expectations were well beyond what they should have been. I get the feeling this patient would not be happy unless he had the same hair he had when he was 13.  HT is and should be a tool to make a bald guy not a bald guy any longer. Not take the hair equivalent of a quadriplegic and turn him into a Olympic athlete.  This looks like good density in these pics for a single procedure and if someone is disappointed in it....then the simple reality is this is a case where the expectation is too high.  We read 50% of original density good. Some people infer that means looks good as it did with no thinning. They are WRONG.  It means they appear to have hair and not obviously thinned at casual glance.  A HT will never hold up to close inspection. Now I will say some doctors...sometimes recklessly and sometimes brilliantly super dense pack a frontal area with massive amounts of grafts and get a look in all lights and views full kid density. But those are extreme cases. If you think you can go to the McDonalds of HT and get that in one pass. You were living in a dream world.  I say this patient appears to have gotten a good HT and certainly to the casual person they meet, looks far from a bald guy now.  He did get kind of a unrefined hairline and partly that is what the doc he picked does. But he also had the opportunity to go with a more natural design.  And even if the artistry here is not the best. A few hours in the chair could make it terrific.  I think a lot of guys with a result would be bragging here how it was life changing. You are saying it is detrimental. For sure a good example of glass 1/2 empty or full and how different humans have different expectations, perspectives a whats of handling them.  

Listen, I learned the hard way too...but I am not complaining. I bought into the argument and illusion that 50% of original density would give me almost perfect hair. You know what, it doesn't!  It took a train wreck of a head of hair and made it presentable and where it wasn't really impacting my looks in a meaningful way and people notice me and my hair is good enough that nobody looks at it. Think of it like another body part most of us ignore...ARMS.  If someone has unusually muscular arms...people notice. If they are so weak and maybe slightly disabled giving off sings of bad health or weakness....we notice that too.   But on a guy, his arms can be in the bottom 20% or top 20% and damnit, nobody is going to even notice his arms one way or another. We just notice really obvious things on other people!  Have a head that is closer to full than bald and people's eyes go elsewhere.  That is what HT is really about.  When I go out on a date now, I am under no illusion my hair is helping me or hurting me. Now if a 20y old dude with crazy great hair sat down in my lap, then the girl I am out with might notice my hair is a little lackluster.  

I think some people want perfect hair of a teenager. They will be disappointed even with a decent result by real world standards of HT.  The guy who just want's to look presentable and hair not be a major impact on his overall look....then yes, he will be happy with typically good results.  Melvin's hair looks like crap in the wrong light and with nothing done compared to someone with zero hair loss. But with a bit of effort and in the game of life, he is a guy with hair that is good enough not to take away from his looks. Compare him side by side with mode hair....it might hilght his weakness. HT didn't restore him to perfect. It restored him to where his hair isn't impacting his appearance in a bad way.  

 

 It is easy to see how many HT pics are done in ideal lighting. It is pretty much the norm in fact to see before and after pics with slightly more harsh lighting before....and results ideally styled and presented. That is not unethical much of the time. It is just patients looking at the bright side and of course doctors putting their work in the best light. It is up to us, as informed patients to look through the 1000's or results here and learn for ourselves what is really happening and not think we are getting a unicorn when what we are getting is more like a donkey.  That is the value of this site to patients. The info is here if you aren't lazy and have a good eye for realty.  But the overall world of HT is misleading and the next is loaded with results that are presented in the most ideal conditions by patients and doctors.    Yes, a few can get intense density and amazing good as teenager results. But for most patients that is not reality, or even a goal. That usually takes 2 surgeries and doctors with a good eye for natural hairlines. But like this patent, most get rehabilitated good enough to frame their faces and no longer be guys you look at and give the impression of bald.  If you think your new superpower is going to be hair....you are wrong. 

 

 

To HTO416. Seriously...loose the comb forward.  I am telling you, your hair is pretty good now and a lot if it is in your head.  And if you had a bit of a wodow's peak added and maybe a few hundred singles scattered along the outer edge of the hairline you would have some truly great results! I mean that. I can be harsh and don't sugar coat things. If this were not true....I wouldn't say it.  You really are okay as it is. And would be a great look with a bit of refinement.  

Edited by txtransplant
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Hi, can you take pic with hd camera or higher resolution.  The blurry pic actually adds a toppik like effect.  It makes things look denser then They really are in person.  High def pic should help us see the result better.  

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This,,,it woud be awesome and be barely more than a few hundred grafts, Changes the entire look. You got lucky. You didn't really get a flat hairline..you got one too high...completely something great to work with, 

2D5DC526-23F3-4716-9555-EF0BBA588D7B.thumb.jpeg.8430a1f67a81e6161167901ffc52d3a8.jpeg

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3 hours ago, txtransplant said:

And here we have the essence of this thread and the realities.  I don't see any before pics. But I will assume this was a frontal hairline rebuild job.  And being completely blunt....it is a pretty good result.  Yes, it could be more "refined" maybe more subtle transition and and I agree with another poster, I would have had higher temples. But this is very much part of being an adult and taking ownership of what you want. Not just letting someone you have never met decide your hairline. So for sure any perspective patients need to know what they want going in. It is much better than letting a stranger decide the morning of. You should design your hairline. However, perhaps more often I see patients going for too aggressive hairlines and feel doctors need to be ore reserved in giving those. I think the Dr. who did this patient actually over does hairlines. I think maybe in parts of the world where many of his patients come from that is appreciated.  

  Back to this. I see a pretty dense hairline for a HT.  I have no idea what you stated with,,,but this is solidly middle of the road looking. With 7-800 grafts it could be really maxed and be a better than average result. That the patient doesn't like the design is irrelevant. That was a communication problem and has nothing to do with the skill set. Here is the rub. Plenty of guys would love results like yours. You instead hate them. From the pics (and I doubt you sent the most flattering ones) it seems like you really have nothing to hide. In fact the forward comb down looks to me much worse than what is under it. I would say this is a better result coverage wise than Melvin. But completely a case where expectations were well beyond what they should have been. I get the feeling this patient would not be happy unless he had the same hair he had when he was 13.  HT is and should be a tool to make a bald guy not a bald guy any longer. Not take the hair equivalent of a quadriplegic and turn him into a Olympic athlete.  This looks like good density in these pics for a single procedure and if someone is disappointed in it....then the simple reality is this is a case where the expectation is too high.  We read 50% of original density good. Some people infer that means looks good as it did with no thinning. They are WRONG.  It means they appear to have hair and not obviously thinned at casual glance.  A HT will never hold up to close inspection. Now I will say some doctors...sometimes recklessly and sometimes brilliantly super dense pack a frontal area with massive amounts of grafts and get a look in all lights and views full kid density. But those are extreme cases. If you think you can go to the McDonalds of HT and get that in one pass. You were living in a dream world.  I say this patient appears to have gotten a good HT and certainly to the casual person they meet, looks far from a bald guy now.  He did get kind of a unrefined hairline and partly that is what the doc he picked does. But he also had the opportunity to go with a more natural design.  And even if the artistry here is not the best. A few hours in the chair could make it terrific.  I think a lot of guys with a result would be bragging here how it was life changing. You are saying it is detrimental. For sure a good example of glass 1/2 empty or full and how different humans have different expectations, perspectives a whats of handling them.  

Listen, I learned the hard way too...but I am not complaining. I bought into the argument and illusion that 50% of original density would give me almost perfect hair. You know what, it doesn't!  It took a train wreck of a head of hair and made it presentable and where it wasn't really impacting my looks in a meaningful way and people notice me and my hair is good enough that nobody looks at it. Think of it like another body part most of us ignore...ARMS.  If someone has unusually muscular arms...people notice. If they are so weak and maybe slightly disabled giving off sings of bad health or weakness....we notice that too.   But on a guy, his arms can be in the bottom 20% or top 20% and damnit, nobody is going to even notice his arms one way or another. We just notice really obvious things on other people!  Have a head that is closer to full than bald and people's eyes go elsewhere.  That is what HT is really about.  When I go out on a date now, I am under no illusion my hair is helping me or hurting me. Now if a 20y old dude with crazy great hair sat down in my lap, then the girl I am out with might notice my hair is a little lackluster.  

I think some people want perfect hair of a teenager. They will be disappointed even with a decent result by real world standards of HT.  The guy who just want's to look presentable and hair not be a major impact on his overall look....then yes, he will be happy with typically good results.  Melvin's hair looks like crap in the wrong light and with nothing done compared to someone with zero hair loss. But with a bit of effort and in the game of life, he is a guy with hair that is good enough not to take away from his looks. Compare him side by side with mode hair....it might hilght his weakness. HT didn't restore him to perfect. It restored him to where his hair isn't impacting his appearance in a bad way.  

 

 It is easy to see how many HT pics are done in ideal lighting. It is pretty much the norm in fact to see before and after pics with slightly more harsh lighting before....and results ideally styled and presented. That is not unethical much of the time. It is just patients looking at the bright side and of course doctors putting their work in the best light. It is up to us, as informed patients to look through the 1000's or results here and learn for ourselves what is really happening and not think we are getting a unicorn when what we are getting is more like a donkey.  That is the value of this site to patients. The info is here if you aren't lazy and have a good eye for realty.  But the overall world of HT is misleading and the next is loaded with results that are presented in the most ideal conditions by patients and doctors.    Yes, a few can get intense density and amazing good as teenager results. But for most patients that is not reality, or even a goal. That usually takes 2 surgeries and doctors with a good eye for natural hairlines. But like this patent, most get rehabilitated good enough to frame their faces and no longer be guys you look at and give the impression of bald.  If you think your new superpower is going to be hair....you are wrong. 

 

 

To HTO416. Seriously...loose the comb forward.  I am telling you, your hair is pretty good now and a lot if it is in your head.  And if you had a bit of a wodow's peak added and maybe a few hundred singles scattered along the outer edge of the hairline you would have some truly great results! I mean that. I can be harsh and don't sugar coat things. If this were not true....I wouldn't say it.  You really are okay as it is. And would be a great look with a bit of refinement.  

OP stated he was a NW2 before surgery and had 3000 grafts. The hairline looks awful I would not be happy. No worder OP is covering with fringe. Graft angles look way off like most Asmed patients. IMO poor technique and below par quality

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