What is the Problem with Erdoğan Hairlines?

[Melvin- Admin]

9 minutes ago, Payam said:

I meant for my own case. How do you touch up doubles and tripples in the hairline? I thought the term touch up only applied to adding density?

If there are doubles and triples in the hairline, you add single follicular unit grafts in front of the hairline which adds softness. This is common and trust me you are no where near un-repairable. In favt, I wouldnt even categorize you as a repair.

This is a repair

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/gallery/album/1807-my-results-dr-hasson-5000-grafts-7-years-on/

[HT0416]

If i brush my hair back, density is very similar tbh. the way hairline is drawn it just looks awful showing hairline off. graft angles look like plugs. asmed have already admitted negligence not using micro scopes in my surgery to give me natural hairline. all i want now is a refund to beable to go to a trusted dr to get hairline repaired.

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, HT0416 said:

If i brush my hair back, density is very similar tbh. the way hairline is drawn it just looks awful showing hairline off. graft angles look like plugs. asmed have already admitted negligence not using micro scopes in my surgery to give me natural hairline. all i want now is a refund to beable to go to a trusted dr to get hairline repaired.

Can you post close-up photos? Any modern phone should be able to capture this. Also, as I said previously please create your own thread, so we can reach out to the clinic.

[HT0416]

Asmed already aware of this. im fed up of seeing more cases pop up. something is not right. dr erdogan has a video showing how grafts angles are placed close to the skin with his k.e.e.p tool , if you look when grafts are placed in the video , you can see even in video they are not being placed correctly. 

this is very common on most asmed results, they will never be natural if you cant get the basics correct. i have seen one result recently which is farsan looking at grafts everything seems to be bang on, so little hope for asmed.

for me i just hope asmed read this and put me out of my misery and refund me so i can get a repair to my hairline.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, HT0416 said:

Asmed already aware of this. im fed up of seeing more cases pop up. something is not right. dr erdogan has a video showing how grafts angles are placed close to the skin with his k.e.e.p tool , if you look when grafts are placed in the video , you can see even in video they are not being placed correctly. 

this is very common on most asmed results, they will never be natural if you cant get the basics correct. i have seen one result recently which is farsan looking at grafts everything seems to be bang on, so little hope for asmed.

for me i just hope asmed read this and put me out of my misery and refund me so i can get a repair to my hairline.

How can we help you, if you refuse to create your own thread and post better quality photos? 

[raptor]

Anyone concerned Pm me for my personal experience with asmed and Dr. Erdogan

[Spaceman]

4 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

How can we help you, if you refuse to create your own thread and post better quality photos? 

there is a stale thread from HT0416 with some additional photos here:

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Spaceman

[Melvin- Admin]

7 minutes ago, Spaceman said:

there is a stale thread from HT0416 with some additional photos here:

 

Thanks for pointing out the thread, after reviewing some of the photos, I honestly don't see any issue with this hair transplant at all and most of the other posters agree. I feel for the poster, because its obvious he isn't happy, but I am unsure what else he would expect from a procedure. The results look good I am sure they can be improved, as can most results however, I think it would be a bad idea for this poster to get any more procedures as the risk outweigh the rewards.

[Mick50]

This whole Erdogan and certain patients not being happy is getting out of hand ,of all the recent posters complaining about their results at the clinic need a reality check, most of them seem to be guys in their 20's who had unrealistic expectation to begin  with .

Firstly a hair transplant is an illusion and if you take pics under certain harsh lighting with the hair-line scraped back it wont look it's best ,the video of the Scottish guy [planet stephen]  who is unhappy with his hair typifies this new breed of patient ,check out his 13 month result on youtube, nearly every comment from posters is that his hair looks great ,the tone he uses is one almost that  he needs a repair, it needs to be fixed etc  ,I actually think his hair-line is too low, but that doesn't seem to be what's bothering him,  as for his actual growth and density his hair look great. I have watched all his videos on youtube and most of the comments from people agree that his hair      looks good .I am in no way here  to defend Dr Erdogan    and his clinic, in fact I am the only one on this site  who directly put certain pertinent  questions to him in a post he made recently ,which   I didn't receive a reply . 

I have seen sub-par and botch- jobs on this site and and have voiced my opinion that the patients deserves a refund etc, but not one of the recent   patients on here who have been to Asmed   fit that category. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by Mick50

[Melvin- Admin]

I agree Mick, 

It’s a domino effect, one poster complains about results since before any growth occurred. Then you have other members start to feel unsettled, pretty soon you have a bunch posters at month 6 complaining about their results which haven’t fully grown in yet.

In this case, the poster actually said he was 7/10 satisfied with the results, then all of the sudden he changed his mind. He has hair that most of us would die to have, but there is always something that could be improved, refined, thicker you name it. A lot of guys aren’t candidates not based on their hair loss, but based on their expectations. I will be creating a new topic and writing an article on this very issue.

Also, I’ve noticed an increased number of posters intentionally making their hair look worse by spreading their hairline apart, wetting their hair etc. Like you said hair restoration is an “illusion” not true density, if you’re after true density, forget hair transplants and get a hair system simple as that. Before clinics would do things like take pictures in dark rooms, add fiber to make hair look better, now it’s like patients are doing the same except to make hair look worse. Pictures should be representative of how the hair looks day to day. 

[HT0416]

it a botch jobs grafts angles in wrong direction not laying close to skin, low density and hairline shape is too straight. resulting in a un natural result. not sure why hair restoration mods getting so defensive? you can see clearly in photo of mine and other patients complaining how botched the hair transplant is.

Edited October 26, 2018 by HT0416

[fortuneplant]

9 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

...after reviewing some of the photos, I honestly don't see any issue with this hair transplant at all and most of the other posters agree...

Hmmm.

I have not seen HT0416  post an immediate post-ops pics, but assuming his HT cover an NW2 area and 3,000 grafts that would roughly be at least 70grafts/square cm. That's dense. Assuming 90% of the grafts survives, I'd not be satisfied with the density of his hairline. (I attached the pics he uploaded.)

But here's the thing, it's a dense HT, was too much  planted that the grafts survival rate went down?  Should it have been a two ops thing, spaced a year apart, instead of one dense operation?

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by fortuneplant

[fortuneplant]

8 hours ago, Mick50 said:

...

Firstly a hair transplant is an illusion and if you take pics under certain harsh lighting with the hair-line scraped back it wont look it's best ,the video of the Scottish guy [planet stephen]  who is unhappy with his hair typifies this new breed of patient ,check out his 13 month result on youtube,...

I had a look at planet stephen's youtube vid. He had 2,940 grafts and seem to be NW2. That's roughly 70grafts per square cm. That's dense. I think he is right to be expecting a denser hairline. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by fortuneplant

[HT0416]

taken today with iphone

[Payam]

2 hours ago, fortuneplant said:

I had a look at planet stephen's youtube vid. He had 2,940 grafts and seem to be NW2. That's roughly 70grafts per square cm. That's dense. I think he is right to be expecting a denser hairline. 

Thank you for being a voice of reason, it's amazing how anyone could say Stephens transplant from Asmed wasn't an utter failure, it it looks like he had 1000 grafts planted, a huge number of grafts down the drain. 

[HT0416]

results look awful. if patients are aware of these kind of results you just wouldnt get it done. i suppose i was lucky only being a norwood  2 in the first place to be able to cover hair transplant. my hairline also clearly shows grafts shooting out of my scalp, i didnt ask for a quiff.

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, HT0416 said:

taken today with iphone

This is not a botch job at all, not even close. 

I would like to share a link of a true botch job, this community rallied behind this individual and got him a free repair, by one of our coalition surgeons Dr. Mohebi. For anyone reading please see what a botched transplant looks like.

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/43538-warning-if-considering-dr-james-boland-in-colorado-surgical-center-read-this/

[Melvin- Admin]

50 minutes ago, Payam said:

Thank you for being a voice of reason, it's amazing how anyone could say Stephens transplant from Asmed wasn't an utter failure, it it looks like he had 1000 grafts planted, a huge number of grafts down the drain. 

Mick is being a voice of reason, I already shared a link of a true botch job. The picture looks like it’s on tye lower density sise, but certainly not a botched transplant. Like Mick said any transplant will appear thin if you hold it up and spread it apart in harsh lighting, it’s an “illusion” not true density. I can make my hairline look worse too if I put it in harsh lighting. 

When he’s not close up in harsh lighting it looks normal.

[Mick50]

Just read what the majority of posters      [with no agenda] say  about Stephen's transplant  on youtube,  most say it looks great ,for anyone to say it's a botch job is complete  bollacks , OK it can/could   be improved with a few tweaks here and there  ,but overall it looks good and he says himself he is in a better place then he was pre -op ,he actually comes across as a nice genuine guy and I hope he gets complete  satisfaction  ,but as hair transplants go he looks great,   lots of guys myself included would love to have his result ,but as  NW 6  I am more than happy with my result   ,ha when the crown goes  you gotta be realistic  

Edited October 26, 2018 by Mick50

[JayLDD]

39 minutes ago, Mick50 said:

Just read what the majority of posters      [with no agenda] say  about Stephen's transplant  on youtube,  most say it looks great ,for anyone to say it's a botch job is complete  bollacks , OK it can/could   be improved with a few tweaks here and there  ,but overall it looks good and he says himself he is in a better place then he was pre -op ,he actually comes across as a nice genuine guy and I hope he gets complete  satisfaction  ,but as hair transplants go he looks great,   lots of guys myself included would love to have his result ,but as  NW 6  I am more than happy with my result   ,ha when the crown goes  you gotta be realistic  

 

Personally I think ASMED should (and probably would) offer a touchup because from experience I know Koray and the clinic want to satisfy their patients as best they can even in cases where their expectations are a little too high, they specifically mentioned this issue to me the last during second procedure consultation. But for the life of me I have no idea why this has become such a big deal with patients of this specific clinic, looking at results overall on this website from all surgeons I would go as far as to say 99% have some sort of issue to fault such as uneven density, see through areas of coverage, thicker hair in the hairline than what would have been in their birth hairline etc, but others seem to deal with it rationally and on top of that accept that a touchup isn't the end of the world or something to let ruin their life because of these minor issues that the general public would be unlikely to ever catch out. I don't know Melvin's Youtube channel name but I've seen a wet hair comb through of his where its very clear that hes working to make the best of density that still isn't close to a pre-hairloss state. Some of these guys should look at that, its a phenomenal result but it also reflects what can reasonably be expected of hair transplants and that you can't judge results based on ridiculous circumstances like harsh bathroom lighting and unbrushed/washed hair that looks as it does out of bed.

 

This case seems a good comparative situation with another surgeon, a few of the issues mentioned above and the density obviously isn't at the same level as the native hair, but in terms of what can be expected from hair transplants its a terrific result and with a touchup it could be perfect from the perspective of the average person. The patient was calm about it, the clinic was calm about offering a touch-up and no one expends energy on attacking people who ultimately all want the person to have a good experience and result. I cannot understand why anyone would make this situation so much harder for themselves or can't just be honest about expectations with themselves. Virtually every transplant on this website has some sort of issue if you go specifically looking for it, they're even easier to find if you shine harsh artificial light on it and spread the hair in a ridiculous manner that no one would ever do other than to make it look worse than it is.

 

Payam imo is the only one with genuine below-par growth issues, but even he should look at top clinics for example like Cooley's, Lorenzo's, Feriduni's, Hasson/Wongs and search for their poor results because they regularly occur even with the best, on top of that wait till 12 months before reaching a firm conclusion. Either way he's not a victim, he's just unlucky and should have done proper research to prepare for the fact that a home-run isn't assured no matter where you go. You can't expect to slander a clinic with claims born out of genuine lies/ignorance + fear-mongering to make people avoid the clinic and expect them to be able to discuss or help resolve issues with you either. Just basic common sense.

 

Edited October 26, 2018 by JeanLDD

[Mick50]

13 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

 

Personally I think ASMED should (and probably would) offer a touchup because from experience I know Koray and the clinic want to satisfy their patients as best they can even in cases where their expectations are a little too high, they specifically mentioned this issue to me the last during second procedure consultation. But for the life of me I have no idea why this has become such a big deal with patients of this specific clinic, looking at results overall on this website from all surgeons I would go as far as to say 99% have some sort of issue to fault such as uneven density, see through areas of coverage, thicker hair in the hairline than what would have been in their birth hairline etc, but others seem to deal with it rationally and on top of that accept that a touchup isn't the end of the world or something to let ruin their life because of these minor issues that the general public would be unlikely to ever catch out. I don't know Melvin's Youtube channel name but I've seen a wet hair comb through of his where its very clear that hes working to make the best of density that still isn't close to a pre-hairloss state. Some of these guys should look at that, its a phenomenal result but it also reflects what can reasonably be expected of hair transplants and that you can't judge results based on ridiculous circumstances like harsh bathroom lighting and unbrushed/washed hair that looks as it does out of bed.

 

This case seems a good comparative situation with another surgeon, a few of the issues mentioned above and the density obviously isn't at the same level as the native hair, but in terms of what can be expected from hair transplants its a terrific result and with a touchup it could be perfect from the perspective of the average person. The patient was calm about it, the clinic was calm about offering a touch-up and no one expends energy on attacking people who ultimately all want the person to have a good experience and result. I cannot understand why anyone would make this situation so much harder for themselves or can't just be honest about expectations with themselves. Virtually every transplant on this website has some sort of issue if you go specifically looking for it, they're even easier to find if you shine harsh artificial light on it and spread the hair in a ridiculous manner that no one would ever do other than to make it look worse than it is.

 

Payam imo is the only one with genuine below-par growth issues, but even he should look at top clinics for example like Cooley's, Lorenzo's, Feriduni's, Hasson/Wongs and search for their poor results because they regularly occur even with the best, on top of that wait till 12 months before reaching a firm conclusion. Either way he's not a victim, he's just unlucky and should have done proper research to prepare for the fact that a home-run isn't assured no matter where you go. You can't expect to slander a clinic with claims born out of genuine lies/ignorance + fear-mongering to make people avoid the clinic and expect them to be able to discuss or help resolve issues with you either. Just basic common sense.

 

I beleive Asmed may do a free touch up for Stephen ..in my opinion the jury is still out ot Payam's result ..  lets view that at the 12 month mark .only then we know if he has a below par result ..

[Payam]

3 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

 

Personally I think ASMED should (and probably would) offer a touchup because from experience I know Koray and the clinic want to satisfy their patients as best they can even in cases where their expectations are a little too high, they specifically mentioned this issue to me the last during second procedure consultation. But for the life of me I have no idea why this has become such a big deal with patients of this specific clinic, looking at results overall on this website from all surgeons I would go as far as to say 99% have some sort of issue to fault such as uneven density, see through areas of coverage, thicker hair in the hairline than what would have been in their birth hairline etc, but others seem to deal with it rationally and on top of that accept that a touchup isn't the end of the world or something to let ruin their life because of these minor issues that the general public would be unlikely to ever catch out. I don't know Melvin's Youtube channel name but I've seen a wet hair comb through of his where its very clear that hes working to make the best of density that still isn't close to a pre-hairloss state. Some of these guys should look at that, its a phenomenal result but it also reflects what can reasonably be expected of hair transplants and that you can't judge results based on ridiculous circumstances like harsh bathroom lighting and unbrushed/washed hair that looks as it does out of bed.

 

This case seems a good comparative situation with another surgeon, a few of the issues mentioned above and the density obviously isn't at the same level as the native hair, but in terms of what can be expected from hair transplants its a terrific result and with a touchup it could be perfect from the perspective of the average person. The patient was calm about it, the clinic was calm about offering a touch-up and no one expends energy on attacking people who ultimately all want the person to have a good experience and result. I cannot understand why anyone would make this situation so much harder for themselves or can't just be honest about expectations with themselves. Virtually every transplant on this website has some sort of issue if you go specifically looking for it, they're even easier to find if you shine harsh artificial light on it and spread the hair in a ridiculous manner that no one would ever do other than to make it look worse than it is.

 

Payam imo is the only one with genuine below-par growth issues, but even he should look at top clinics for example like Cooley's, Lorenzo's, Feriduni's, Hasson/Wongs and search for their poor results because they regularly occur even with the best, on top of that wait till 12 months before reaching a firm conclusion. Either way he's not a victim, he's just unlucky and should have done proper research to prepare for the fact that a home-run isn't assured no matter where you go. You can't expect to slander a clinic with claims born out of genuine lies/ignorance + fear-mongering to make people avoid the clinic and expect them to be able to discuss or help resolve issues with you either. Just basic common sense.

 

I have not lied, stop saying that, and i absolutely expect my physician not to he childish and unprofessional, I have to live with this nightmare every day and the clinic is ignoring me even though all I want from them is answers and nothing else.

[fortuneplant]

6 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

The picture looks like it’s on tye lower density sise, but certainly not a botched transplant...

I am not sure how to define a botched transplant, my only issue is that when someone goes for a high density HT, say 70 grafts per square cm and up, the hairline should look denser than the attached blurry picture. (There are similar cases in this forum with about half the graft and NW2 where the hairline looks denser.)

I am assuming that normal hair is about 100grafts per square centimeter; while 40 grafts per square centimeter is a rough rule of thumb for cosmetically normal looking hair.

It's possible that majority of Stephen's 2,970 grafts are multi-units and not suitable to be placed in the hairline, thus the lack of density. 

P.S. I have no stake in the outcome. No attachment to either the clinics or the patients. I am just a forum member who is still learning.

Edited October 26, 2018 by fortuneplant

[Mick50]

1 hour ago, fortuneplant said:

I am not sure how to define a botched transplant, my only issue is that when someone goes for a high density HT, say 70 grafts per square cm and up, the hairline should look denser than the attached blurry picture. (There are similar cases in this forum with about half the graft and NW2 where the hairline looks denser.)

I am assuming that normal hair is about 100grafts per square centimeter; while 40 grafts per square centimeter is a rough rule of thumb for cosmetically normal looking hair.

It's possible that majority of Stephen's 2,970 grafts are multi-units and not suitable to be placed in the hairline, thus the lack of density. 

P.S. I have no stake in the outcome. No attachment to either the clinics or the patients. I am just a forum member who is still learning.

what are you talking about?  how would multi hair grafts in the hair -line produce lack of density, they would produce  an artificial looking hairline ,not a hair -line lacking in density 

[Mick50]

Forget the maths ,just use your god given eyes to judge a result ,   there is no way on god's earth that this guys result is botched or is a below par result ,he looks great ,I personally don't like the low hair -line ,but that's subjective , he has no reason in my opinion to complain Jesus he when all things considered got a pretty good result .