What is the Problem with Erdoğan Hairlines?

[Mick50]

3 hours ago, Payam said:

I have not lied, stop saying that, and i absolutely expect my physician not to he childish and unprofessional, I have to live with this nightmare every day and the clinic is ignoring me even though all I want from them is answers and nothing else.

Payam ,compare your reaction to  Stephan's,  you have behaved like a spoiled brat form the word go ,you have shown no intelligence  and have basically attacked the clinic from the beginning , any  clinic would be scratching their  head    not knowing how to deal with a patient such as you, please behave like an adult and show your result at the 12 month mark as you have been advised countless times 

[Melvin- Admin]

1 hour ago, fortuneplant said:

I am not sure how to define a botched transplant, my only issue is that when someone goes for a high density HT, say 70 grafts per square cm and up, the hairline should look denser than the attached blurry picture. (There are similar cases in this forum with about half the graft and NW2 where the hairline looks denser.)

I am assuming that normal hair is about 100grafts per square centimeter; while 40 grafts per square centimeter is a rough rule of thumb for cosmetically normal looking hair.

It's possible that majority of Stephen's 2,970 grafts are multi-units and not suitable to be placed in the hairline, thus the lack of density. 

P.S. I have no stake in the outcome. No attachment to either the clinics or the patients. I am just a forum member who is still learning.

A botched transplant is defined, outdated procedures i.e mini grafts, plugs etc. followed by an unnatural grouping of hair follicles i.e 7,8,9 hair follicular unit grafts. Cobblestoning, ridging, necrosis, these are all indicitave of a botched procedure. There is absolutely no way that result is botched. Could it use mor density sure, perfectly normal to get touch-ups after a hair transplant.

Below is a patient Sanjar41 he came to the forum truly a botched patient. The whole forum rallied behind him, back then I was just a poster. Ultimately, he was able to be repaired. I would like to show you what a botched transplant looks like.

Please read the thread, you will find it educational and informative.

 

[Mick50]

2 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

A botched transplant is defined, outdated procedures i.e mini grafts, plugs etc. followed by an unnatural grouping of hair follicles i.e 7,8,9 hair follicular unit grafts. Cobblestoning, ridging, necrosis, these are all indicitave of a botched procedure. There is absolutely no way that result is botched. Could it use mor density sure, perfectly normal to get touch-ups after a hair transplant.

Below is a patient Sanjar41 he came to the forum truly a botched patient. The whole forum rallied behind him, back then I was just a poster. Ultimately, he was able to be repaired. I would like to show you what a botched transplant looks like.

Please read the thread, you will find it educational and informative.

 

Listen up, anyone who knows me on this forum know that I say what believe   ,and have on occasion disagreed with the mods ,but no way are the recent cases from Asmed in anyway botched jobs ,I do have a concern that Dr Erdogan maybe stretching himself too thinly ,maybe he needs to bring another Doc on- board, as I think it would be a shame if all the good work he produces at a an affordable price suffers if he is perceived as  cutting corners .

[HT0416]

i think if you a NW6 or affiliated you dont see this problem. if clinics / surgeons are passing these results as good results i think the industry is in real trouble.

Hairlines shown in this thread all look botched with thin roots growing at front of scalp. it is not natural looking. 

Asmed are willing to help me free of charge so they say, if i go back to them for dr erdogan to analyze my hair transplant, if i agree the techs (surgical assistants) will repair hairline. i would rather have my money back and go elsewhere but at the moment im left with a dodgy hairline. i honestly dont know how techs will fix . im in 2 minds what to do

[fortuneplant]

32 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

A botched transplant is defined, outdated procedures i.e mini grafts, plugs etc. followed by an unnatural grouping of hair follicles i.e 7,8,9 hair follicular unit grafts. Cobblestoning, ridging, necrosis, these are all indicitave of a botched procedure. There is absolutely no way that result is botched. Could it use mor density sure, perfectly normal to get touch-ups after a hair transplant.

 

 

 

Thanks Melvin. That's an awful outcome. I want to unsee it but it's so bad I find myself looking at it repeatedly.

[Melvin- Admin]

19 minutes ago, HT0416 said:

i think if you a NW6 or affiliated you dont see this problem. if clinics / surgeons are passing these results as good results i think the industry is in real trouble.

Hairlines shown in this thread all look botched with thin roots growing at front of scalp. it is not natural looking. 

Asmed are willing to help me free of charge so they say, if i go back to them for dr erdogan to analyze my hair transplant, if i agree the techs (surgical assistants) will repair hairline. i would rather have my money back and go elsewhere but at the moment im left with a dodgy hairline. i honestly dont know how techs will fix . im in 2 minds what to do

Unfortunately, hair transplants do not create true density, it is an “illusion” and to say your botched in comparison to Sanjar41 is nonsensical. There’s only been one botched procedure and that’s Sanjar41.   

[HT0416]

I think you saying this will put alot of people of getting a hair transplant. If i had known this that i have a weird looking frontal area before my transplant i wouldnt of gone ahead. 

I have seen many results from other surgeons which gives me hope.

[fortuneplant]

1 hour ago, Mick50 said:

Forget the maths ,just use your god given eyes to judge a result ,   there is no way on god's earth that this guys result is botched or is a below par result...

For an NW2, 2,970 grafts, high density HT, my eyes said the hair line density is below par. (see attached pic.)

There are pics here in the forum that are NW2, around half that number of grafts, that has much denser looking hairline.

P.S. The reason why I am working the numbers is that I am just curious why a high density transplant can yield something that's look like "low" density. I mean for all I know the clinic transplanted all the hair to the back and neglected to put grafts on the frontal part of the hair line.

Edited October 27, 2018 by fortuneplant

[HT0416]

i dont speak turkish but clearly from this video asmed are promoting natural hair transplants.

ALL THE PICS SHOWN IN THIS THREAD ARE NOT NATURAL LOOKING. THATS WHY WE ARE ALL UPSET. 

[JayLDD]

10 minutes ago, fortuneplant said:

For an NW2, 2,970 grafts, high density HT, my eyes said the hair line density is below par. (see attached pic.)

There are pics here in the forum that are NW2, around half that number of grafts, that has much denser looking hairline.

You keep saying NW2, there are post-op and pre-op photos where its looks closer to a NW3 and the hairline height chosen to create is also more aggressive than a typical NW2 case. On top of that his temple points were completely rebuilt. You can't throw around very specific numbers like "70 grafts per cm/2" if you're not going to bother being accurate about the area covered and actually looking at the graft placement post-ops.

 

I do agree the growth could be better, but if you're going to make precise claims about numbers then you should use accurate basis for them. I don't get what the problem being accurate about details here is, if there's a problem then why constantly hyperbolize it.

Edited October 27, 2018 by JeanLDD

[fortuneplant]

17 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

You keep saying NW2, there are post-op and pre-op photos where its looks closer to a NW3...

He is? My mistake. I watched his earlier videos and made some calculation on the coverage. The initial work done on him seems clean though. It just that the grafts near the front hairline just didn't grow.

[JayLDD]

2 minutes ago, fortuneplant said:

He is? My mistake. I watched his earlier videos and made some calculation on the coverage. The initial work done on him seems clean though. It just that the grafts near the front hairline just didn't grow.

Probably in between looking at this pic, but also can see the hairline was lowered quite a bit plus the temple peaks were also filled. Its definitely not packed with density at all above that of other well known surgeons.

Imo the guy is looking at another 1000 grafts or so for a perfect result. Don't see a huge deal in having to go through two procedures to achieve that when his desired hairline design was quite aggressive to begin with.

 

 

 

 

 

[Melvin- Admin]

37 minutes ago, HT0416 said:

I think you saying this will put alot of people of getting a hair transplant. If i had known this that i have a weird looking frontal area before my transplant i wouldnt of gone ahead. 

I have seen many results from other surgeons which gives me hope.

If guys with unrealistic expectations get put off, then I’ve done my job. 

[fortuneplant]

5 hours ago, Payam said:

I have not lied, stop saying that, and i absolutely expect my physician not to he childish and unprofessional, I have to live with this nightmare every day and the clinic is ignoring me even though all I want from them is answers and nothing else.

Payam, most everyone here in the forum wishes everyone get a good outcome from their HT.  Even the clinic want their patients to have an excellent outcome.  Every one who has gone through a transplant understand what you are going through and what a nightmare a bad HT result can be. 

But you have to learn to chill. (Yes, easier said than done.) Your doctor can't do anything until your hair matures at 12 months.  You are a high-touch client unfortunately the clinic that you picked is a low-touch operation.  

JeanLDD words may sting, but it's not devoid of truth either. But why should JeanLDD words affect you? (Or anyone who does not agree with you?) He's not your love one/friend/relative/publicly famous person/acquaintance. In fact, most everyone here don't know each other. We are all ether. We can't hurt anyone physically,  no need to take it emotionally. No need to react to negative things. Chill.

 

 

[fortuneplant]

39 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

...Imo the guy is looking at another 1000 grafts or so for a perfect result. Don't see a huge deal in having to go through two procedures to achieve that when his desired hairline design was quite aggressive to begin with.

Thanks! Didn't see that particular pic. It's an easy fix but dang! Personally, I have a hard time seeing myself going thru a second HT. Am an outdoorsy guy. I had FUT and it crimped my lifestyle.

Edited October 27, 2018 by fortuneplant

[Spaceman]

While this is by no means a botched hair transplant, I think HT0416 looks better in the before pick. So I can understand his not being happy using 3000 grafts and $7k on the result. It’s my subjective opinion.

Pictures can be deceiving, but I wouldn’t have guessed he needed 3000 grafts based upon the preop picture above.

That said, one can only hope for natural looking density from a single procedure that significantly lowers the hairline. From any surgeon.  One can not take for granted that it will happen. Many times you need a second procedure to achieve natural looking density in a lowered hairline. Even when you start at NW2 and go to a top surgeon.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Spaceman

[Payam]

47 minutes ago, Spaceman said:

While this is by no means a botched hair transplant, I think HT0416 looks better in the before pick. So I can understand his not being happy using 3000 grafts and $7k on the result. It’s my subjective opinion.

Pictures can be deceiving, but I wouldn’t have guessed he needed 3000 grafts based upon the preop picture above.

That said, one can only hope for natural looking density from a single procedure that significantly lowers the hairline. From any surgeon.  One can not take for granted that it will happen. Many times you need a second procedure to achieve natural looking density in a lowered hairline. Even when you start at NW2 and go to a top surgeon.

I can only speak for myself here, but that's it right there. When Erdogan makes 3000 grafts look like 1500 we are supposed to take it on the chin and just get on with our lives and "just get a touch up", even though you are absolutely screwing yourself for the future, some of us have our 40's and 50's in mind here. So the option is to live out your 30's with a terrible low density, doubles in the hairline hair transplant that screams unnatural except for the apparently very low standards of some forum members here. Any transplant that looks unnatural is a failure, it is a spectrum from Stephens to Sanjars. I would kill for your density Melvin, it's obvious your transplant was successful while it is equally obvious HT0416 and Stephens were not.

[VicTNYC]

9 hours ago, JeanLDD said:

Probably in between looking at this pic, but also can see the hairline was lowered quite a bit plus the temple peaks were also filled. Its definitely not packed with density at all above that of other well known surgeons.

Imo the guy is looking at another 1000 grafts or so for a perfect result. Don't see a huge deal in having to go through two procedures to achieve that when his desired hairline design was quite aggressive to begin with.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree, the hairline looks to be lowered just a bit too low, whether he is at fault for requesting the hairline that low or whether It’s fully the Doctorsown design, he did have less than 3,000 grafts to accommodate both the lower hairline along with filling in the temples and temple points, the density is definitely not there he does look like he needed an additional 1,000 to 1,500 to achieve good density, but I would not classify at all a slight lack of density as “Botched”, irregular yes, botched no way.

[VicTNYC]

9 hours ago, HT0416 said:

I think you saying this will put alot of people of getting a hair transplant. If i had known this that i have a weird looking frontal area before my transplant i wouldnt of gone ahead. 

I have seen many results from other surgeons which gives me hope.

Just because you’ve seen many results from other surgeons does not guarantee that they will also give you similar results, NO HT surgeon on earth would guarantee 100% similar stellar results to 100% of his patients, unless they are frauds. Every persons biology, healing, growth rate is different. Go ahead and ask any of those doctors that give you hope if the will guarantee 100% a stellar result on the day of your consultation or surgery, see what they say.

[HT0416]

I now know from this forum Asmed have a really low graft survival rate, nearly every result ive seen has poor growth compared to number of grafts used. It may sound good going for mega session and paying out but when you get not a dense hairline and have less donar grafts left its not acceptable. Also hairlines look fake af. 

Next year asmed will be doing even more surgeries per day.

[HT0416]

Touch up scare me also we all have limited amount of grafts left. We established Asmed have low survival graft rate letting them touch donar is just way too risky. hair transplants take years to master, letting a young surgical assistant (tech) mess around pulling grafts and re planting is scary

[HT0416]

Going back to Turkey for a touch up is another way to scam another hair transplant 1500+ grafts out of you. 

[HT0416]

Dr Erdogan doesnt even have any time to speak with patients who have concerns to reassure them how he will the problem instead leaves the marketing language co ordinator to deal with the problem, explaining everything is all good and asmed will achieve your dreams bollox. going back to let a surgical assistant repair hairline is complete madness.

[Cristian1]

41 minutes ago, HT0416 said:

Dr Erdogan doesnt even have any time to speak with patients who have concerns to reassure them how he will the problem instead leaves the marketing language co ordinator to deal with the problem, explaining everything is all good and asmed will achieve your dreams bollox. going back to let a surgical assistant repair hairline is complete madness.

This is exactly what I'm afraid of.. that he does not even have the time to do a thing properly.

That includes a full surgery on patients. 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Cristian1

[HarryHonolulu]

Instead of getting into the semantics of what a botched job is, I think it’s more helpful to ask :

is the patient happy? is there a visible improvement?

 From the problematic Erdogan example posted here and in other threads I would say absolutely not.  And for good reason: Erdogan is often touted as an amazing surgeon and on the list of recommended surgeons. 

I don’t think that expecting a natural hairline is “unrealistic”. That is what is surprising to me about some of the comments on here defending ASMED . If a Norwood VI with poor donor hair complained because he didn’t get Brad Pitt hair from Erdogan I would get it. But the complaints are about the unrefined nature of ASMED’s work and since ASMED themselves advertise natural results, there’s a huge disconnect between promise vs result.

 The poor results are pluggy as hell, use way more grafts than is necessary, sound like they are performed by technicians for the most part, and have an awkward hair direction than would look more appropriate on Tolka trolls.

 I’m not saying every one of his  results sucks. But I think it is legitimate to question the clinics work without bashing it when so many real life patience come on here and share their disappointing experiences

 

Edited October 29, 2018 by HarryHonolulu