Turkish Transplants

[kwacluver]

Like many on here I have been researching for some time. Unfortunately  I wasted so much time  thinking that I could get work done here in the Uk at affordable cost but it clearly cannot be done, especially if you want FUE. I am now seriously considering travel to Turkey. My initial conversations with like minded guys is that  this could be the way to go. The forum  has two recommended surgeons, Dr Erdogan and   Dr Yasman both of whom I have approached. Likewise with an outfit called Quonmedical  who have been helpful but I suspect are middle men representing clinics. If any of you good folk out there have any advice to further my research I would love to hear from you.

[JayLDD]

If you're looking at high graft numbers (2500+) and are NW3+ I would mainly consider Erdogan, for smaller cases Keser does extremely good work.

[Gasthoerer]

I second the opinion of Jean an throw in HLC for smaller cases. Kaan is a former HLC employee who has a smaller track record since beeing independent, but at least worth looking at, too.

[kwacluver]

First off, many thanks Jean. Just spent a pleasant hour studying your  write ups on here.You write informatively and obviously from your age you are not a typical transplant guy. For myself I should have explained that  I am probably a NW5  hairloss. Two surgeons in Uk suggested 3200 ish grafts but both tried to push me gently in the direction of FUT but probably to help my budget. I am very much looking forward to a response from Dr Erdogan when he has studied my pictures.

John, a big thanks  for your response...I appreciate that much of the work is done by technicians and I guess I need to satisfy myself that they are well trained and motivated. Heres a couple of pics of my starting point.

[Melvin- Admin]

Hi Kwaculver, 

welcome to the forum, Is there any particular reason you want to choose FUE? Given your hair loss and how long you keep the sides, I feel a strip surgery would suit you better. 

[BigBen]

In my case Dr. Koray Erdogan only did the incisions. Isn't a bit weird that the technicians do the extractions and implants in an expensive HT? At Asmed they do several surgeries at the same time and how do we know the skill level of the technicians? I think it's better to talk about it openly and don't make this a taboo because a few guys that had the HT done the day before and the same day were worried about the same thing. One of them told me that a girl did his incisions.

[Mick50]

6 minutes ago, BigBen said:

In my case Dr. Koray Erdogan only did the incisions. Isn't a bit weird that the technicians do the extractions and implants in an expensive HT? At Asmed they do several surgeries at the same time and how do we know the skill level of the technicians? I think it's better to talk about it openly and don't make this a taboo because a few guys that had the HT done the day before and the same day were worried about the same thing. One of them told me that a girl did his incisions.

For me the main concern is the Asmed site says a Doctor uses a  magnifier to do the extractions there is no mention of techs doing it ,OK if you research on this website it becomes clear the Doctor just does the incisions  but as not everyone who has a transplant with Asmed is  a member or reads posts on here .

[BigBen]

1 minute ago, Mick50 said:

For me the main concern is the Asmed site says a Doctor uses a  magnifier to do the extractions there is no mention of techs doing it ,OK if you research on this website it becomes clear the Doctor just does the incisions  but as not everyone who has a transplant with Asmed is  a member or reads posts on here .

Thanks for replying, I love to hear other people's opinions. Perhaps I just need to chill because it's just 10 days after my HT but since the surgery day until now I have been hearing the same complaints, not only here but in Istanbul.

Most top FUE doctors have technicians, okay, but my doctor only was there for the incisions and I am thinking about the risks of performing several surgeries at the same time and having a bunch of technicians of different skill level.

I would love to hear what others think.

[Mick50]

20 minutes ago, BigBen said:

Thanks for replying, I love to hear other people's opinions. Perhaps I just need to chill because it's just 10 days after my HT but since the surgery day until now I have been hearing the same complaints, not only here but in Istanbul.

Most top FUE doctors have technicians, okay, but my doctor only was there for the incisions and I am thinking about the risks of performing several surgeries at the same time and having a bunch of technicians of different skill level.

I would love to hear what others think.

Hey man , who you telling I took a real risk and went to Turkey in the full knowledge the techs were doing all the work ,luckily for me I got  a pretty  good result , knowing what I know now I wouldn't take that risk again , I actually think Amed produce very good results in general , but there do seem to be a few unhappy patients recently compared to before ,of course one wants to limit the variables but  are all techs created equal is the question I guess .

[BigBen]

Crossing my fingers then as I was at Asmed with Dr. Koray Erdogan 10 days ago. Did you post your results? I am not extremely happy about doing so but I think I should to help other people as this is very serious decision, even more for used grafts than for money spent. I am really hoping for the best and trying to stay positive but still find a few jarring things about the whole thing.

[Melvin- Admin]

16 minutes ago, BigBen said:

Thanks for replying, I love to hear other people's opinions. Perhaps I just need to chill because it's just 10 days after my HT but since the surgery day until now I have been hearing the same complaints, not only here but in Istanbul.

Most top FUE doctors have technicians, okay, but my doctor only was there for the incisions and I am thinking about the risks of performing several surgeries at the same time and having a bunch of technicians of different skill level.

I would love to hear what others think.

Big Ben,

Hair restoration is a collaborative effort, when you elect a surgeon, you’re also electing his staff and track record.  Also, you shouldn’t focus on what other anxious patients have to say, especially if they’re not close to the 12th month mark. The last thing you want to do is stress yourself out unnecessarily. You chose a good clinic with a strong reputation and literally dozens of successful patient reviews. 

[BigBen]

10 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Big Ben,

Hair restoration is a collaborative effort, when you elect a surgeon, you’re also electing his staff and track record.  Also, you shouldn’t focus on what other anxious patients have to say, especially if they’re not close to the 12th month mark. The last thing you want to do is stress yourself out unnecessarily. You chose a good clinic with a strong reputation and literally dozens of successful patient reviews. 

Thank you Melvin. I keep using finasteride and I am eating fruit and taking vitamins. Is it normal that the reddish is gone after 10 days? Because some guys say that reddish means "something is happening". My scalp is healed already and normal colour.

After a month I'll start using Rogaine Foam as you do. I want to get Nizoral shampoo as well but I am wondering 1 or 2% and how many times a week? The other days I'll use Sebamed Everyday Shampoo pH 5.5 like the one that Asmed gave me because it's really good for my scalp. Nizoral would be also after the first month. What else should I take and do?

I'll try to chill, I promise.

Edited August 9, 2018 by BigBen

[Mick50]

33 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Big Ben,

Hair restoration is a collaborative effort, when you elect a surgeon, you’re also electing his staff and track record.  Also, you shouldn’t focus on what other anxious patients have to say, especially if they’re not close to the 12th month mark. The last thing you want to do is stress yourself out unnecessarily. You chose a good clinic with a strong reputation and literally dozens of successful patient reviews. 

My problem is not  the tech involvement  with Dr Erdogan, but surely it's misleading if a recommended clinic say a/the  Doctor uses a magnifier to do the extractions when it fact it is the tech that do them . If you look at Asmed's website you will see that it is misleading  .

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Mick50

[BigBen]

6 minutes ago, Mick50 said:

My problem is not  the tech involvement  with Dr Erdogan, but surely it's misleading if a recommended clinic say a/the  Doctor uses a magnifier to do the extractions when it fact it is the tech that do them . If you look at Asmed's website you will see that it is misleading  .

 

I just checked and you are right. Quoted from their website:

Extraction.

Grafts are extracted in a sitting position for the purpose of utilizing all parts of the donor site.

The magnifier, worn on the head of the doctor, is of an innovative, patented, cross-polarized technology, so that the doctor can see approximately 1 millimeter below the surface of the skin.

[BaldingtimetoLdar]

38 minutes ago, BigBen said:

Thank you Melvin. I keep using finasteride and I am eating fruit and taking vitamins. Is it normal that the reddish is gone after 10 days? Because some guys say that reddish means "something is happening". My scalp is healed already and normal colour.

After a month I'll start using Rogaine Foam as you do. I want to get Nizoral shampoo as well but I am wondering 1 or 2% and how many times a week? The other days I'll use Sebamed Everyday Shampoo pH 5.5 like the one that Asmed gave me because it's really good for my scalp. Nizoral would be also after the first month. What else should I take and do?

I'll try to chill, I promise.

Nope I don't think there is a correlation between red scalp and the result.

[BigBen]

18 minutes ago, BaldingtimetoLdar said:

Nope I don't think there is a correlation between red scalp and the result.

Thanks, I read a few guys thinking so at HT-FUE's thread but it didn't make much  sense to me. Besides, the best results I've seen don't have any correlation with the irritation or redness of the patient so I would say it doesn't matter what kind of skin you have, or how soon you heal or your scabs fall off. I'm not a doctor, though.

[Bill - Seemiller]

This topic has just been brought to my attention and I have looked at both his recommendation profile and his website. Nowhere does it specify that the doctor harvests the follicular units himself via FUE. It does say that he wears magnification on his head And because that is stated under the heading for extraction, I suppose we could assume that he does the extractions. But since it doesn’t say it anywhere specifically, I think people are jumping to conclusions.

 That said, we are in the process of drafting in sending an email message to Dr. Erdogan  to clarify whether or not he performs any of the extractions himself or not. Besides, it could be a mix of  both the doctor and technicians that extract the hair but I do agree that clarification is needed. 

Best wishes,

Bill

[JayLDD]

39 minutes ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

This topic has just been brought to my attention and I have looked at both his recommendation profile and his website. Nowhere does it specify that the doctor harvests the follicular units himself via FUE. It does say that he wears magnification on his head And because that is stated under the heading for extraction, I suppose we could assume that he does the extractions. But since it doesn’t say it anywhere specifically, I think people are jumping to conclusions.

 That said, we are in the process of drafting in sending an email message to Dr. Erdogan  to clarify whether or not he performs any of the extractions himself or not. Besides, it could be a mix of  both the doctor and technicians that extract the hair but I do agree that clarification is needed. 

Best wishes,

Bill

He doesn't do the extractions, this was my experience and that of hundreds on this forum and elsewhere. There is no legitimate reason people are getting so uptight about this issue either, its industry standard outside the United States for techs to do extractions including at various top clinics such as Hasson + Wong, Lorenzo's, Feriduni's and even Diep in the US for example. In the consultation email sent by the clinic it also does not state that Koray does the extractions, only the incisions. It's hard to have sympathy for the those that suggest that its anyone else's fault but their own for not reading the consultation email properly or reading at least a single patient posted experience on a website like this before they fork out 10 grand.

Is there a reason this is never brought up for various other clinics some of which do not explicitly state anywhere the doctor doesn't do extractions? The answer is no, people are clearly just looking for something to complain about. If people care about this so much they are free to choose another clinic or pay 3 times the price for a surgeon like Konior that is involved at every stage, otherwise it is just illegitimate complaining for the sake of it.

[BigBen]

6 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

He doesn't do the extractions, this was my experience and that of hundreds on this forum and elsewhere. There is no legitimate reason people are getting so uptight about this issue either, its industry standard outside the United States for techs to do extractions including at various top clinics such as Hasson + Wong, Lorenzo's, Feriduni's and even Diep in the US for example. In the consultation email sent by the clinic it also does not state that Koray does the extractions, only the incisions. It's hard to have sympathy for the those that suggest that its anyone else's fault but their own for not reading the consultation email properly or reading at least a single patient posted experience on a website like this before they fork out 10 grand.

Is there a reason this is never brought up for various other clinics some of which do not explicitly state anywhere the doctor doesn't do extractions? The answer is no, people are clearly just looking for something to complain about. If people care about this so much they are free to choose another clinic or pay 3 times the price for a surgeon like Konior that is involved at every stage, otherwise it is just illegitimate complaining for the sake of it.

I think that your answer is disproportionate and not constructive.

[JayLDD]

28 minutes ago, BigBen said:

I think that your answer is disproportionate and not constructive.

 

Says the one who criticises what I wrote by literally saying absolutely nothing, including how it isn't constructive. Nowhere does it explicitly say that Erdogan does extractions or implantations, in the consultation email it is made quite clear that he only does consultation and incisions.  

This is absolutely never brought up in regards to Hasson and Wong, Diep, Feriduni or Lorenzo's clinic, all of which are double or more in price and not all of them explicitly mention they do not engage in extractions either. Its legitimate to ask what you actually want or how it would change your mind in any way; for example if on the website it explicitly said that Erdogan did not do the extractions or implantations, would you suddenly opt for a doctor only clinic like Lupanzula's or Konior's who are literally twice to three times the price? The answer is almost certainly a no. Why are poor results of doctor only clinics blamed as freak accidents or patient physiology, but those of one of the most consistent surgeons in the world who uses technicians to extract as being a problem of using techs? How is this anything but nonsensical?

If it doesn't explicitly say anywhere he does the extractions, it is industry standard amongst many top FUE surgeons not to do extractions, its clear in the consultation email he doesn't do them + it's a team approach and a five minute Google search to look at patient experiences will tell you he doesn't do extractions, what more do you actually want? Your lack of desire to look at widespread facts and complaining about something that is absolutely never brought up with other top surgeons is hardly constructive.  Hair transplants are an inherently team based procedure, if you aren't aware of the underpinnings of this well you have some basic responsibility and reason to do basic research on the matter if you're going to fork out that amount of money on it.

No one is forcing anyone to go to this clinic at gunpoint like you seem to suggest and a lack of basic reading comprehension and five minutes of research is hardly the clinics fault. It's very, very hard to take the idea that you would fork out 10k on a procedure you didn't read the consultation email for and did absolutely no basic research on (Even a simple Google search). If you don't like the approach (the same approach as Lorenzo and Feriduni who absolutely never get called out on it) then maybe you should go to another clinic, and enjoy paying twice the price. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by JeanLDD

[Payam]

It's incredibly shady that Asmed does not state the surgery is largely tech driven. To the OP, I recently had a transplant with Erdogan and you need to consider that he does 4 parallel surgeries a day, with 4 different teams of technicians. He leaves the supervision to his lead tech Dilek who pops in once in a while, and he himself only pops in to do the incisions. Had I known these facts I would never have went with Erdogan.

[BigBen]

8 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

 

Says the one who criticises what I wrote by literally saying absolutely nothing, including how it isn't constructive. Nowhere does it explicitly say that Erdogan does extractions or implantations, in the consultation email it is made quite clear that he only does consultation and incisions.  

This is absolutely never brought up in regards to Hasson and Wong, Diep, Feriduni or Lorenzo's clinic, all of which are double or more in price and not all of them explicitly mention they do not engage in extractions either. Its legitimate to ask what you actually want or how it would change your mind in any way; for example if on the website it explicitly said that Erdogan did not do the extractions or implantations, would you suddenly opt for a doctor only clinic like Lupanzula's or Konior's who are literally twice to three times the price? The answer is almost certainly a no. Why are poor results of doctor only clinics blamed as freak accidents or patient physiology, but those of one of the most consistent surgeons in the world who uses technicians to extract as being a problem of using techs? How is this anything but nonsensical?

If it doesn't explicitly say anywhere he does the extractions, it is industry standard amongst many top FUE surgeons not to do extractions, its clear in the consultation email he doesn't do them + it's a team approach and a five minute Google search to look at patient experiences will tell you he doesn't do extractions, what more do you actually want? Your lack of desire to look at widespread facts and complaining about something that is absolutely never brought up with other top surgeons is hardly constructive. 

No one is forcing anyone to go to this clinic at gunpoint like you seem to suggest and a lack of basic reading comprehension and five minutes of research is hardly the clinics fault. It's very, very hard to take the idea that you would fork out 10k on a procedure you didn't read the consultation email  and did absolutely no research on seriously. If you don't like the approach (the same approach as Lorenzo and Feriduni who absolutely never get called out on it) then maybe you should go to another clinic, and enjoy paying twice the price.

My HT is already done and you are manipulating my words, and why would I talk about what those doctors do if I chose another one? Do I have to talk about every single doctor or what?

You have called people liar and suggest that they are crybabies, are you aware that you are not helping anybody with that, because I would like to know that you are not? Although you were called out for that.

Anyways, I don't have the slightest interest in fighting with you. Just be aware that your bad attitude is putting some people off in posting their results and/or expressing themselves freely as they should. I really think that you don't realise this.

[JayLDD]

19 minutes ago, BigBen said:

My HT is already done and you are manipulating my words, and why would I talk about what those doctors do if I chose another one? Do I have to talk about every single doctor or what?

You have called people liar and suggest that they are crybabies, are you aware that you are not helping anybody with that, because I would like to know that you are not? Although you were called out for that.

Anyways, I don't have the slightest interest in fighting with you. Just be aware that your bad attitude is putting some people off in posting their results and/or expressing themselves freely as they should. I really think that you don't realise this.

I didn't call anyone a crybaby the first 5 months post-op are stressful for everyone and that's understandable, although I have called some people liars because they very clearly lied and on a number of ocassions. I've already said I'm not going to respond to them anymore and I'll gladly do the same in your case because you're clearly not thinking rationally or looking broadly at whether the issue is normal or acceptable. Someone has stoked the fires and you've jumped right in.

The idea that I've put anyone off posting results is absolutely ridiculous, I have many times supported people for posting poor results and that they should engage in an appropriate procedure of waiting to the 12 month mark before taking qualms up with the clinic, and in all cases the clinic should work to help them. The problem is you and others are jumping to outright hostility within 4 months, in your case 10 days purely out of emotion. If you don't listen to the advice that basic research offers to wait an appropriate length of time before making a judgement and then criticise the clinic due to your own lack of understanding, this should 100% be pushed back upon. You're effectively saying that you should be able to bash doctors due to personal lack of research and understanding, and then not be corrected on why your criticisms are misfounded.

 

I genuinely hope you get good results, but for anyone who doesn't the reality is that YOU made the decision to have the transplant and cough up grafts and money, no one else and not the surgeon. If you don't get the results you hope for (at a point where its fairly clear how it will turn out such as at the 9-10 month mark at least) you are welcome to and should bring this up openly and be free to discuss it on the forums, but endless complaints literally 10 days after a procedure don't look bad on anyone but yourself, and they give a dishonest and purely emotional view of the situation that will manipulate others that are noobs in this into believing your criticisms are legitimate. I'm well aware that I've helped a significant number of people and that many enjoy my bluntness which is often lacking because they've said as much in PMs and elsewhere, so don't act like my honesty isn't helping people.

Edited August 9, 2018 by JeanLDD

[Gasthoerer]

As always the truth is somewhere in the middle:

Anyone who has read in here (or other forums) knows, that most clinics world wide (even the biggest names) use techs for most of the work besides incisions. There are only a handfull skilled clinics who perform the complete procedure. Most of them perform only very small # per days and limited # per session. For bigger cases above 2500+ graft this is a big deceisive factor.

However, there is no black and white. Some of the "tech" clinics have very well educated techs and also the doc is doing a lot of supervision or even extracting test grafts etc. My guess (as I have never been in contact with ASEMD) is that Erdogan might be doing less supervisions than other clinics of this type. But he is also much cheaper compared to Feriduni, Rahal, H&W, Bisanga etc.

Also: There are maybe more bad results from Erdogan online, bute there are also significantly more good results online from him.

[BigBen]

2 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

I didn't call anyone a crybaby, although I have called some people liars because they very clearly lied and on a number of ocassions. I've already said I'm not going to respond to them anymore and I'll gladly do the same in your case because you're clearly not thinking rationally or looking broadly at whether the issue is normal or acceptable. Someone has stoked the fires and you've jumped right in.

The idea that I've put anyone off posting results is absolutely ridiculous, I have many times supported people for posting poor results and that they should engage in an appropriate procedure of waiting to the 12 month mark before taking qualms up with the clinic. The problem is you and others are jumping to outright hostility within 4 months, in your case 10 days purely out of emotion. If you don't listen to the advice that basic research offers to wait an appropriate length of time before making a judgement and then criticise the clinic due to your own lack of understanding, this should 100% be pushed back upon. You're effectively saying that you should be able to bash doctors due to personal lack of research and understanding, and then not be corrected on why your criticisms are misfounded.

 

I genuinely hope you get good results, but for anyone who doesn't the reality is that YOU made the decision to have the transplant and cough up grafts and money, no one else and not the surgeon. If you don't get the results you hope for (at a point where its fairly clear how it will turn out such as at the 9-10 month mark at least) you are welcome to and should bring this up openly and be free to discuss it on the forums, but endless complaints literally 10 days after a procedure don't look bad on anyone but yourself, and they give a dishonest and purely emotional view of the situation that will manipulate others that are noobs in this into believing your criticisms are legitimate.

This doesn't make any sense. At all. I haven't bashed any doctor, all my comments have been encouraging, supportive and positive but of course you haven't read them before describing myself ignorantly and mindlessly, have you?

Obviously, I focus on Asmed cases because they are more relevant for a person that had a HT done at Asmed. And yes, I expressed realistic and sensible concerns in a natural way, why wouldn't I?

Why would I complain about my results after ten days? Are you being serious? Still trying to find the logic within your brain...

You can believe me when I say that you are putting people off in posting and yes, the thing that people that just had the HT done need the least is what you give them.