Turkish Transplants

[BigBen]

20 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

The problem is you and others are jumping to outright hostility within 4 months, in your case 10 days purely out of emotion.

 

If you don't get the results you hope for (at a point where its fairly clear how it will turn out such as at the 9-10 month mark at least) you are welcome to and should bring this up openly and be free to discuss it on the forums.

You edited your message so let me tell you two things.

Firstly, you are lying in the first paragraph and obviously you are manipulating the reality or have shady intentions. Nothing positive, anyway.

Secondly, I will post whenever I want whatever I feel, thank you very much. Do I need your permission?

Sorry but the feedback I've received about you is drastically different than your own perception about yourself and even you are proving them right once again.

[JayLDD]

14 minutes ago, BigBen said:

This doesn't make any sense. At all. I haven't bashed any doctor, all my comments have been encouraging, supportive and positive but of course you haven't read them before describing myself ignorantly and mindlessly, have you?

Obviously, I focus on Asmed cases because they are more relevant for a person that had a HT done at Asmed. And yes, I expressed realistic and sensible concerns in a natural way, why wouldn't I?

Why would I complain about my results after ten days? Are you being serious? Still trying to find the logic within your brain...

You can believe me when I say that you are putting people off in posting and yes, the thing that people that just had the HT done need the least is what you give them.

 

"You can believe me when I say that you are putting people off in posting and yes, the thing that people that just had the HT done need the least is what you give them."

 

Thanks for offering absolutely no proof of this, and not mentioning the fact that I've absolutely NEVER criticised someone for saying their results are bad or they aren't happy with them. The cases you're referring to specifically involve people outright lying and making things up, resorting to hysteria within 4 months and attacking the clinic for something like tech extraction which is made quite clear in the consultation email and you would be made aware of with a basic Google search. There's nothing I have done that involves attacking people for complaining about legitimate issues with their procedure and I have helped and encouraged many to take up issues with the clinic, particularly at the 9-10 month mark when their results are clear.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by JeanLDD

[BigBen]

1 minute ago, JeanLDD said:

"You can believe me when I say that you are putting people off in posting and yes, the thing that people that just had the HT done need the least is what you give them."

 

Thanks for offering absolutely no proof of this, and not mentioning the fact that I've absolutely NEVER criticised someone for saying their results are bad or they aren't happy with them. The cases you're referring to specifically involve people outright lying and making things up, resorting to hysteria within 4 months and attacking the clinic for something like tech extraction which is made quite clear in the consultation email and you would be made aware of with a basic Google search. There's nothing I have done that involves attacking people for complaining about legitimate issues with their procedure and I have helped and encouraged many to take up issues with the clinic, particularly at the 9-10 month mark when their results are clear.

 

 

I know that you don't give a damn but I am feeling vulnerable and uncertain at the moment and don't need your toxicity at the moment. So you win, I give up. Thank you.

[JayLDD]

3 minutes ago, BigBen said:

You edited your message so let me tell you two things.

Firstly, you are lying in the first paragraph and obviously you are manipulating the reality or have shady intentions. Nothing positive, anyway.

Secondly, I will post whenever I want whatever I feel, thank you very much. Do I need your permission?

Sorry but the feedback I've received about you is drastically different than your own perception about yourself and even you are proving them right once again.

Enjoy criticising a clinic for procedures that you were made aware of in consultation emails, is widely available through a basic Google search and is an industry standard. And no, you don't need my permission to make yourself sound like an idiot, have at it.

 

By the way I didn't realise that editing a post for changing a few words and adding that I accept that the first 5 months post-op are very stressful and cause people to be on edge was "manipulating reality" or was evidence of "shady intentions". Thanks for the tip off, and have a nice life.

 

[JayLDD]

4 minutes ago, BigBen said:

I know that you don't give a damn but I am feeling vulnerable and uncertain at the moment and don't need your toxicity at the moment. So you win, I give up. Thank you.

Seriously though, I want everyone to get the best results possible, I would 100x prefer if you got a result you're happy with than feeling like you made a mistake. It doesn't change the fact that fretting over things you haven't researched or considered fully and turning this into criticism of the clinic can be misleading to people who are new to HTs in general. You've got a long while before you can start making any conclusion about whether it was money well spent.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Guys,

I honestly don’t know what all the fighting is about.  There are ways to share your genuine opinions without stepping in each other’s toes and resorting to insults. Frankly, hair transplant surgery is a team effort and in many cases, the technicians do the bulk of the work.  That said, I personally prefer going to a clinic where the surgeon is the one to harvest the grafts, largely because I’ve been conditioned to believe that any scoring of the skin constitutes surgery.   And in the United States, I believe only a surgeon can perform surgery - though this may vary from state to state. As for Turkey and other foreign countries, the rules and laws vary. 

I will say this however, even if a surgeon has techs extracting the grafts, I feel very strongly that the surgeon should be present for the entire process.  Because truthfully, despite that hair transplant surgery is a team effort, the success or failure of the result falls back on the surgeon.   

At the end of the day however, Dr. Erdogan has proven to produce outstanding results and thus, whatever he is doing at his clinic to get the job done, he is doing it right. 

Lets find out from the clinic what they have to say about this topic. 

Best wishes,

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

P.s. no more name calling and disrespecting one another please 

[Melvin- Admin]

Guys,

We have to remain respectful, we may share different ideas or point of views, but name calling is uncalled for and unnecessary. 

In regards to tech involvement, as stated earlier, clinics are like a team, the doctor is the coach so to speak. He is responsible for training, supervising and the overall results. I would prefer a technician who has been extracting grafts every day for several hours a day with years of experience, than a surgeon who performs FUE once a week. Ultimately, it’s a patients decision with who they choose to go to, but in the end results are what matters. Dr. Erdogan, has been producing top notch results for many years. 

[Markee]

Positive results are what counts most 

[Legend007]

I just want to say that diep does do the extractions .. ask Any of dieps patients .. in California it’s illegal for techs to score the skin .. only a surgeon or nurse can  extract grafts ..  

[Legend007]

I have an upcoming surgery with doctor diep .. n from what I’ve been told from their clinic n himself .. n his YouTube videos . That he does the extractions himself .. when I’m at the surgery chair , n he’s not the one doing the extractions .. Imma be like refund me back my $16,000 , n I use that money to put a down payment on a house , then go to turkey for my hairtransplant instead . N I let y’all know if he does that or not .. don’t be false advertising ..  sometimes I think the clinics get too big n popular n doctors get too rich , they don’t realize even though they do this everyday n it’s no big deal to them .  but to every patient . It’s a lifetime personal  investment into themselves .. n it’s a big deal .. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Dr. Diep, does the extractions, but I believe he scores the grafts. What this means is that he punctures the skin and captures the follicular unit with the punch. However, the technicians remove the graft from the scalp and transplant them in to the recipient sites that Dr. Diep made. So technicians are heavily involved in the process as well, but the most important aspects are performed by Dr. Diep. I'm surprised more surgeons don't do this, as it really leaves the most important aspects of surgery to them, but saves them tedious work such as pulling out each scored graft and transplanting them.

[Payam]

7 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Guys,

We have to remain respectful, we may share different ideas or point of views, but name calling is uncalled for and unnecessary. 

In regards to tech involvement, as stated earlier, clinics are like a team, the doctor is the coach so to speak. He is responsible for training, supervising and the overall results. I would prefer a technician who has been extracting grafts every day for several hours a day with years of experience, than a surgeon who performs FUE once a week. Ultimately, it’s a patients decision with who they choose to go to, but in the end results are what matters. Dr. Erdogan, has been producing top notch results for many years. 

Erdogan performs upwards of a thousand surgeries a year, how can we really know anything about his consistency? Look around some and you will find several recent transplants with sub-par results from this clinic yet he is lauded as one of the best? His online presence is very strong, it sure fooled me. I firmly believe we will see more poor results now that he himself is so far removed from the surgery (he doesn't even supervise anymore)

[BigBen]

This is one of my reflections on my thread. It's something that some doctors do several times a day but for each of us is a lifetime investment not only money but most importantly grafts. Sure, Dr Koray Erdogan is very confident and everything looks to be extremely well-organised at his clinic but the other guys I've met shared the same concerns. I understand that he needs technicians, that's something most FUE doctors require and it makes sense because there is work involved for each follicle and on top of that they also need to keep them alive, but do the technicians have to learn by practising on real patients like some people have suggested on this forum and potentially ruining the patient's life? Why doesn't he even do the incisions when he is too busy because of his workload like another patient told me? Why is he only present for doing the incisions, because he does four surgeries at the same time?

In my opinion and it seems that many other respected people agree, he should be more involved with each patient because each surgery is something really important for each patient, no matter how well-organised the clinic is. I trust the doctor that I chose and hoping for the best possible result but I believe that the doctor should be more involved with his patients and that the technicians shouldn't carry out the biggest part of the surgery on their own. I also believe that having more than a surgery done at the same time with just one doctor around is too risky. These things you don't read about on their website nor are explained to you at all, it's not something that the patient should actively research about either when they are already choosing a renowned doctor that should have the highest standards and that doesn't involve technology alone.

Edited August 10, 2018 by BigBen

[Bill - Seemiller]

I sure hope that’s not true. The best surgeons perform one or two hair transplant surgeries per day. That is less than 1000 procedures even if it’s two every day.   Where are you coming up with these numbers? Where did you hear that Dr. Erdogan  performs thousands of hair transplant procedures in a year?

Frankly, it sounds like you are making statistics up and if you are going to make these types of dangerous claims, I now need you to provide your source and prove it. Because if he is indeed doing that many procedures a year, we need to contact him to discuss this. That is way too many.  

Bill

[BigBen]

I think that you are asking Payam but I can share with you my own experience because all I know for sure is about the day I had my HT done and I don't want to make up anything. That day there were three other guys that had the surgery done at the same time so four that day simultaneously and, yes, I only saw the doctor for the incisions.

[kwacluver]

First off, many thanks Jean. Just spent a pleasant hour studying your  write ups on here.You write informatively and obviously from your age you are not a typical transplant guy. For myself I should have explained that  I am probably a NW5  hairloss. Two surgeons in Uk suggested 3200 ish grafts but both tried to push me gently in the direction of FUT but probably to help my budget. I am very much looking forward to a response from Dr Erdogan when he has studied my pictures.

John, a big thanks  for your response...I appreciate that much of the work is done by technicians and I guess I need to satisfy myself that they are well trained and motivated. Heres a couple of pics of my starting point.

[kwacluver]

Hi  to all that have replied to my initial thread, just wanted to thank  those who have highlighted  certain issues that I will certainly run through with Dr Erdogan and any other Doctor  I Approach. Melvin, you ask why I favour the FUE,I guess the pics I uploaded are  not the best and were taken very recently when I kinda let things go, I usually have a guy run a number two clipper over my head . The attached is probably more representative. Be very interested to hear whether you feel FUT is the better option. It is interesting to note how many overseas clinics seem to major in FUE. Here in the UK it very much feels to be the expensive option over FUT from what I can see. 

[BaldingtimetoLdar]

13 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Guys,

We have to remain respectful, we may share different ideas or point of views, but name calling is uncalled for and unnecessary. 

In regards to tech involvement, as stated earlier, clinics are like a team, the doctor is the coach so to speak. He is responsible for training, supervising and the overall results. I would prefer a technician who has been extracting grafts every day for several hours a day with years of experience, than a surgeon who performs FUE once a week. Ultimately, it’s a patients decision with who they choose to go to, but in the end results are what matters. Dr. Erdogan, has been producing top notch results for many years. 

You're right sometimes technicians can be more skilled than doctors but how hard is it to find which technician is responsible for a bad hair transplant? Let's say you have 3 technicians who are involved in the extraction of a transplant how will you know who's the bad egg? This mindset could also creep into the technicians. If they mess up or are lazy with the extractions the doctors name and reputation is on the line not his/her. They may also think that they are doing all the hard work and the transplant doctor is getting all the money and praise. Therefore they are less inclined to perform to the best of their ability. 

[Payam]

6 hours ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

I sure hope that’s not true. The best surgeons perform one or two hair transplant surgeries per day. That is less than 1000 procedures even if it’s two every day.   Where are you coming up with these numbers? Where did you hear that Dr. Erdogan  performs thousands of hair transplant procedures in a year?

Frankly, it sounds like you are making statistics up and if you are going to make these types of dangerous claims, I now need you to provide your source and prove it. Because if he is indeed doing that many procedures a year, we need to contact him to discuss this. That is way too many.  

Bill

He performs at least 4 surgeries a day. When i was there i did it parallel with 3 other guys, we met 4 guys who had done theirs the day before, and on the second day we (me and one more guy from the day before) met 2 newly shaved guys that were doing theirs that day. Thats 12 surgeries over the course of 3 days. It leaves me to think he (his techs) does surgery on most days of the year except weekends. Anyone that recently had a HT with erdogan recently will confirm, or you can ask him directly. 

[Bill - Seemiller]

Payam,

While at the end of the day it’s the results that matter the most, I do have some concerns in hearing that one of our recommended doctors may be performing surgery on up to four patients per day. I might be able to understand of all for procedures are very small, like 500 to 1500 graft sessions however, to do more than one large mega session a day seems to be asking for trouble if you ask me.

 That said, no conclusions can be made until we investigate and evaluate the situation. Thus, I will be contacting him to  discuss this further. That said, I know that when he first became recommended surgeon, he stated that he was doing only one or two procedures a day which is standard.  

 Are you really sure that all three patients you saw that they were there for surgery? Maybe two of them were there for follow-up visit after their procedure?  

 Why have you not shared this before? 

Best wishes,

Bill

[Payam]

2 minutes ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

Payam,

While at the end of the day it’s the results that matter the most, I do have some concerns in hearing that one of our recommended doctors may be performing surgery on up to four patients per day. I might be able to understand of all for procedures are very small, like 500 to 1500 graft sessions however, to do more than one large mega session a day seems to be asking for trouble if you ask me.

 That said, no conclusions can be made until we investigate and evaluate the situation. Thus, I will be contacting him to  discuss this further. That said, I know that when he first became recommended surgeon, he stated that he was doing only one or two procedures a day which is standard.  

 Are you really sure that all three patients you saw that they were there for surgery? Maybe two of them were there for follow-up visit after their procedure?  

 Why have you not shared this before? 

Best wishes,

Bill

I am in a whatsapp group with all of them and have their telephone numbers, but i don't think erdogan hides this fact, anyone that has done a recent surgery with him should be able to corroborate this.

[BigBen]

12 minutes ago, Bill - Managing Publisher said:

Payam,

While at the end of the day it’s the results that matter the most, I do have some concerns in hearing that one of our recommended doctors may be performing surgery on up to four patients per day. I might be able to understand of all for procedures are very small, like 500 to 1500 graft sessions however, to do more than one large mega session a day seems to be asking for trouble if you ask me.

 That said, no conclusions can be made until we investigate and evaluate the situation. Thus, I will be contacting him to  discuss this further. That said, I know that when he first became recommended surgeon, he stated that he was doing only one or two procedures a day which is standard.  

 Are you really sure that all three patients you saw that they were there for surgery? Maybe two of them were there for follow-up visit after their procedure?  

 Why have you not shared this before? 

Best wishes,

Bill

Months after Payam, we also had surgery done the same day the four of us, they were not small operations, all of us have above 2,500 grafts each and the following day it was the same. One of the guys I've met had a woman doing the incisions but he doesn't want to say his name as he thinks he might need to go back for follow-up or touch-up in the future. Some people don't want to talk about this openly but they do privately and obviously I respect their anonymity.

[ASMEDMANUALFUE]

Hello everyone,

 

I generally prefer to leave HTN Forum discussions to forum users and patients, but this topic needs an explanation.

 As you all know, I am partial to applying mathematics to hair restoration and I like to share the results in an objective way.

 Hair restoration requires full concentration, skill and accuracy during each step of the procedure for a minimum of 6 hours in order to maintain quality.

 To confront this issue, since 2004, ASMED has adopted a system using surgical teams rather than individuals for graft extractions, incisions and placing. Each team member is trained using the K-Head (a life-like training model) placing and extracting a minimum of 10,000 grafts before placing or extracting any graft on a live patient. 

 

Once this training is completed, teams begin on live patients with only 50 grafts per day. This number is increased gradually according to their performance. All surgical rooms consist of 5 nurses and 1 translator, all under the supervision and responsibility of the surgeon and an anesthesiologist. (Per legislation by the Turkish Health Ministry, all surgical assistants/nurses may perform extractions and may place grafts under the supervision of a licensed physician). Collaborative teamwork is necessary as each person is responsible for different parts of the procedure. All grafts are extracted, counted 3 times and the results are then reflected on a screen in front of the patient so that they can follow the entire process at the same time. Statistics are followed and all data is recorded on ASMED Surgical Software. All vital signs are constantly monitored both in the anesthesia theatre and by smartphone applications.

 

The ASMED clinic has a database of 10,000 patients from all around the world with different ethnic origins, hair types and hair caliber. Each extraction team is selected according to their hair per graft average and their expertise with the patient’s characteristics, thereby creating an ideal match. I respect all surgeons that perform all phases of their surgeries by themselves. At ASMED, our aim is to improve and refine the system that we found to have the best results on a daily basis.

 

Respectfully,

 

Koray Erdogan, MD

Edited August 10, 2018 by ASMEDMANUALFUE

[Melvin- Admin]

Thank you for the clarification Dr. Erdogan,

We appreciate your long-term support and participation in our community.

Warm regards- Melvin