I need a less ethical HT surgeon

[whyevenbother]

I agree with spanker in having some patience ..we in a hairloss battle .. it’s a lifelong war ..

But I totally understand where u coming from .. honestly I think ur first surgery should of included ur temple points , so u didn’t have to go through this second surgery .. but look on the bright side , u have ur hairline n temple points filled out now ..ur 3 rd procedure should give u the density u want .. n ur crown seems to be intact , so u can focus on ur midscalp for that density u desire ..

 

Thanks, I'm really trying to stay positive. I know I should wait to book the 3rd procedure but this extended social isolation is driving me nuts. I don't know if I can risk waiting another 7-24 months (when the 1st procedure will be grown out vs. what the doctor recommended) PLUS another 14 months for that to grow in.

 

I actually work from home so I have it easier than most in that sense, I don't know how people do this. I sure don't want anyone I know seeing what I've been looking like the past few years.

 

 

how is ur donor area looking ? How many grafts do u have left? N what Norwood were u befor the transplant ?

 

I attached some pics of the donor, I should probably ask the doc on # of grafts left, I'm not sure. He's taken less out of the left side than the back and right, so far.

 

I was NW2A before the 1st transplant but my natural hair pattern (ignoring grafts) is definitely at least NW3A now, maybe even NW4A.

[whyevenbother]

17 % is a very odd number.

Are you sure that this is not just miscommunication? Maybe you had around 17 % hair remaining before the surgey. To transplant 17 % of your original desnsity does not make any sense.

 

Yeah I'm sure, I discussed it with him again in my more recent visit. Why would you say it doesn't make sense? It's low certainly but I get the impression he's just being conservative.

 

One more comment: Your regime is very (!) aggresive with 5 mg FIN and DUT on top.

 

I did that for 2 years but I'm not on it anymore, I dropped the DUT and am just doing FIN 1.25mg/daily now.

[gillenator]

I also would like to see your hair grown out to at least 3 inches or more.

 

I think it looks great and find it very hard to believe that it's only 17% density.

 

As others have said, give it time and yes waiting can be the hardest thing to do post-op but you owe it to yourself because it is indeed a life long plan in restoring one's hair.

 

It is the visual result that counts, not the numbers...:cool:

[whyevenbother]

Posting a follow up.

So my 2nd HT hasn't grown in yet but it doesn't even matter if it comes in "perfectly" because the first one is such a mess. It's now been 11 months since the first one and I hate it so fucking much. The implanted hairs stick straight up, the complete opposite of my natural hair, but somehow almost none of it makes a uniform, natural pattern, its all over the place.

Even worse its ridiculously thin and I'm still losing hair behind it. It is so incredibly obvious that it was transplanted, I have the hair of a 60 year-old Republican politician. This was BY FAR the biggest mistake of my life. I would give anything just to be able to go back to being a bald guy - and I look *really* fucking bad bald, way worse than the vast majority of people I've seen.

I recently visited two well respected clinics to get second opinions and they both wanted to LOWER my hairline... which definitely *is* both too high and SUPER straight and unnatural looking... but I don't get how my first doctor doesn't even want to fill in what I have now because I won't have enough grafts in the future, but these guys want to freaking lower it? Did not inspire confidence.

I'm absolutely dreading the 2nd HT growing in, I have no fucking clue why I let him put more grafts in the hairline when its nearly fucking bald behind it. Literally the opposite of what I needed and the second biggest mistake of my life.

I cant grow it out because the directionality of it is such a mess, and if I keep it short not only can you see the dark hair line with the huge bald area behind it, but he cherry-picked all the darkest hairs from my head and put them on top so the transplant hair is way darker than my natural hair on the sides while still being sparse as fuck. And that's about to get a lost worse when these new grafts come in.

I dont have any new pictures to attach because I shaved bald the other day to see how bad the scarring was.

I don't even know what to do now. I've nearly given up hope on ever being comfortable leaving the house again. Even if I had the grafts to fill it in and get a natural density its not like they can fix this ridiculous "hair style" he gave me.

I wish I could just laser remove every hair on my head at this point., but the scarring is really noticeable when shaved bald. I thought maybe SMP on the donor and just laser remove / electrolysis all the implanted hairs and just be bald on the top. I'm afraid I'm going to hate what that looks like too but what other options do I even have?

Can anyone recommend a clinic that does SMP + laser removal/electrolysis to repair bad transplants?

Why did I do this to myself

[fortuneplant]

Sorry to read about your depressing experience. How much grafts do you still have available? My understanding is you used  1,700 (currently at 11th month covering hairline  and mid scalp) +600 (currently at 4th month covering temples) =2,300 grafts. How much more do you have? The number that you still have available will give your doctor an idea on how to go forward.

Before jumping into SMP, ask the provider what's the maintenance like? When do you re-ink? What type of hair style will you need for it to work for you? How will it change your lifestyle?

Edited October 2, 2018 by fortuneplant

[fortuneplant]

The two links below are forum posters who went through repair procedure. The second one even had some of his grafts removed.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/189734-procedure-almost-ruined-my-life.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/189610-dr-rahal-1591-grafts-fue-repair.html

[hairlossPA]

can you please post pics of your hair grown out at-least a little? you're giving us very little to work with here. do you want to vent to us or allow us to give you our feedback?

[whyevenbother]

Regarding donor I only asked one of the 2 doctors I saw recently and he said I have around 6000 grafts left.

Here are two pictures I just took. I don't think I'm going to grow it out again so this is the best I can offer.

 

[whyevenbother]

I definitely will have a lot or questions for an SMP provider once I find one, before doing the procedure. The last guy I saw was discouraging me from doing it and heealso claimed he had never heard of temporary SMP? I'm pretty sure I've read about that on this forum and elsewhere? So I don't think I should go with him.

[Spaceman]

Maybe this is not what you want to hear, but you’re freaking out and it’s not helping. Despite what you see in the mirror it really doesn’t look bad. There is no need for you to isolate yourself and hide. 

Aren’t you in post-shedding, pre-growth stage of your 2nd HT right now? If so, you actually look pretty good. Most of us look MUCH worse during that stage.

Hair on the sides is often darker than the top, so it’s not unusual to see a slight color change in the recipient area. The color will often even out over time. You can easily fix the color if it bothers you.

Your hair is at the worst length to cover density issues right now. You really need to chill for a while and let this grow out and see what you’ve got. Why get two procedures if you’re not going to let them grow out?

Edited October 2, 2018 by Spaceman

[Legend007]

U shouldn’t of ever got a hairtransplants if u just going to shave it bald like that .. it’s the hairline .. it’s too round n high . U need to get that right to feel satisfied .. with 6000k grafts left u should have enough geafrs for future hair loss ..  but get that hairline right then u should feel better .. that first doctor messed u up by being too conservative .. get it lower .. 

even if u thin more on top .. if ur hairline is good , u can mask the thinnest on top .. I just don’t know about ur case .. I don’t even want to post this , since it’s easier said than done .. u the one that have to suffer for months .. but ur current pics right now look a lot better than that ur previous pic from months ago .. keep us updated .. n feel free to vent .. We got ur back ..  

[hairlossPA]

you need to grow it out a bit and show us 

[whyevenbother]

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Despite what you see in the mirror it really doesn’t look bad. There is no need for you to isolate yourself and hide. 

Well I just don't agree. I get a lot of stares when I do go out in public.This exact length it's at it is the best look I've managed to come up with, but it's still not something I'm comfortable with.

If I let it grow out any longer at all it looks a lot worse until it's several inches long. I realize implanted hair doesn't look good short, just trying to make the best of a bad situation here.

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Aren’t you in post-shedding, pre-growth stage of your 2nd HT right now? If so, you actually look pretty good. Most of us look MUCH worse during that stage.

I am, but the 2nd HT was only 700 grafts and was only in a small area. Before I cut it a few days ago my hair looked exactly like it did before the 2nd HT.

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Hair on the sides is often darker than the top, so it’s not unusual to see a slight color change in the recipient area. The color will often even out over time. You can easily fix the color if it bothers you.

Sorry I wasn't clear on this part, the color is only noticeable when it's buzzed short like this. Grown out it's not an issue. And obviously I can't color it and keep it at this length.

I brought up the color because it's a concern if I want to do smp and keep it short.

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Your hair is at the worst length to cover density issues right now.

 The lack of density is *much* more noticeable when it's longer.

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Why get two procedures if you’re not going to let them grow out?

I did let the first one grow out, I didn't cut it at all from when I got the 2nd HT until a few days ago (4 months). My hair grows pretty fast, it was longer than I would ever want to wear it at that point and I was not happy at all with how it looks. Even if the density wasn't an issue the direction the hairs grow in is just a fucking mess. He got about 30% of it right, the rest of it is all over the place.

I should have taken pics but I didn't.

Edited October 2, 2018 by whyevenbother

[whyevenbother]

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U shouldn’t of ever got a hairtransplants if u just going to shave it bald like that ..

I definitely wasn't planning on shaving it. But I do agree I never should have gotten the HT. I imagined it looking a lot better than it ended up.

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it’s the hairline .. it’s too round n high . U need to get that right to feel satisfied .. with 6000k grafts left u should have enough geafrs for future hair loss ..  but get that hairline right then u should feel better .. that first doctor messed u up by being too conservative .. get it lower .. 

Well what's freaking me out is the first doc is by far the most experienced + popular of everyone I saw. If I said his name you'd all get where I'm coming from on this. He doesn't do this conservative approach with everyone, but apparently felt it was necessary with me. I'm afraid these other clinics are just looking to take my money and don't care about how it's going to look in a couple years.

And it's not like another HT can fix the direction of the grafts I already got...

Also I'm concerned that I have so many damn grafts in the hairline I have now. How could moving it even work? They put just as many below it, then its super thin right behind?

Then there's the waiting. I'd need to wait another 8 months for the last HT (which was mainly on the hair line) to grow in, then another 12 months to see the growth from that.

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even if u thin more on top .. if ur hairline is good , u can mask the thinnest on top ..

That's exactly what I don't want to do. I'd rather buzz it all down and be bald + ugly than look like a guy trying to cover up his hair loss. It would be one thing if I were older but I'm too young for that to be an acceptable look.

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but ur current pics right now look a lot better than that ur previous pic from months ago

Well those were taken just a few days post-op from the last HT

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keep us updated .. n feel free to vent .. We got ur back ..  

Thanks bro I appreciate it. This is has been a really shitty experience, balding is bad enough but I feel like I've made a series of poor decisions that have just made it a lot worse.

Edited October 2, 2018 by whyevenbother

[gillenator]

A lot can be done with 6,000 grafts!...

[JayLDD]

You're making more of a fuss here than you need to. Forget the current doctor if he doesn't offer what you want, and find a surgeon that will. Your goals don't appear to be unrealistic in any way and your starting position is reasonable. Baubac and Diep for example in the USA do very impressive hairlines on the more aggressive side. 

 

I will say though that despite the conservative hairline, the work looks fine.  The density is certainly above 17%, that's an absurd number. Nor does the angulation look that bad, I think you may be overthinking how problematic it is.. I do think it is too straight, but its not outright jarring.  But if its impacting your life this much, just do something about it, not really sure what the point of whining here is, you seem to know what you want and are aware other surgeons are offering it, so why not get it done? (with a good surgeon of course).

Edited October 2, 2018 by JeanLDD

[Gasthoerer]

14 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

You're making more of a fuss here than you need to.

This!

You make a big fuss and (!) a big riddle about the clinic and state absurd numbers (like the 17 %). 

1. It is not as bad as you make it 

2. If you want our advice, you need to share some info and accept that you might be wrong in some points (17 %, Hair length, etc.)

3. If you have 6000 left, you have a lot of options to make things better

We all are going to the same situation. It is hard, the waiting and all. But it seems you are in full panic mode. It is all in, not on your head. 

[whyevenbother]

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Forget the current doctor if he doesn't offer what you want, and find a surgeon that will.

I mean I'm certainly not considering going back to him for any further work, but I don't think it's unreasonable for me to be concerned that he felt a such a conservative approach was necessary.

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Your goals don't appear to be unrealistic in any way

Well.. I've been lurking hair forums a lot since my HTs and it seems like at least some people have to wear hats or concealer when they go out in the sun, under fluorescent lighting, etc. to avoid having their scalp show through? Am I off base there? I certainly wasn't expecting to need to do that after getting transplants and I'm never going to be satisfied if that's the case for me.

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The density is certainly above 17%, that's an absurd number.

That's what my doc said, I'm pretty sure he knew what he was talking about. The lack of density is more noticeable when its grown long and in person than in the photos I posted.

And the number doesn't really matter anyway. If I liked the way it looked I wouldn't care if it was technically 5% coverage. I only mentioned it because I'm so disappointed with the density, and that was when I first realized it might be an issue.

That was also referring to just the 1st HT, not including the 2nd.

Not trying to make an argument about this as again that number is not the issue, just want to explain where I'm coming from as everyone seems bothered that I wrote that.

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But if its impacting your life this much, just do something about it

I'm trying to. I had two HT consultations last month (one with Baubac) and one scheduled with Diep later this month. 

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not really sure what the point of whining here is

I'm posting here to share my story for others and to get feedback from the community. It was not my intention to "whine", sorry if I offended you.

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so why not get it done? (with a good surgeon of course).

Because in my opinion the first HT has turned out poorly, despite being with done at a reputable clinic. I'm afraid more work is just going to make it worse and make going bald+smp less of a viable option. As of today I'm worse off now than I was before I had any work done.

Edited October 2, 2018 by whyevenbother

[whyevenbother]

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a big riddle about the clinic

That is really not my intention. I haven't mentioned the name because I don't want to get a bunch of people in here angry at me for impugning their favorite doctor, or have the mods call him in to defend himself or something.

I just wanted to point out that the work I had done was at a top clinic because I feel like that's pretty relevant.

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 state absurd numbers (like the 17 %)

Well I don't think it's absurd to repeat what the doctor told me but I think we can all agree the appearance is the important thing.

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It is not as bad as you make it

I'm sorry if I'm being melodramatic. I realize that a lot of people have WAY worse results and I'm thankful that I'm not one of them.

But it's still nowhere near something I can be comfortable with.

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If you want our advice, you need to share some info

I do! What more info can I provide?

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and accept that you might be wrong in some points (17 %, Hair length, etc.)

I do accept that. What do you mean about hair length, what am I wrong about there?

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It is all in, not on your head. 

I mean... it's not in my head that I get weird looks from people since I got the HTs. I was obviously balding before but people don't look twice at that. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Honestly, after reading your posts I don’t think you’re a suitable candidate. Hair restoration is limited and will not replace hair for hair. The donor is finite and most individuals need to style their hair in a way that maximizes their results, obviously buzzing your head will diminish the results because the hairline will be far more exposed and the contrast further highlighted. 

I doubt you will be happy with hair restoration, based off your replies, it seems you expect full density in all situations with all hair styles, that’s not a realistic approach. Furthermore, hair loss is progressive so even a dense result like the one you want wont be as dense forever as you continue to lose hair.

In my opinion, you should either consider smp and keep your hair shaved or a hair system, the only true way to have complete and total juvenile density is through a  hair system. Important thread for anyone reading out there, regardless of the surgeon skill or experience if your expectations are not based in reality you’ll never be happy. 

Warm regards- Melvin

[whyevenbother]

Thanks Melvin, I'm afraid you may be right. Wish I had realized sooner.

I'll respond to a couple of your points in case others want to weigh in.

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obviously buzzing your head will diminish the results 

I know buzzed hair is not a hair style that works for HT generally. The reason I buzzed it initially was to see how bad the scarring was, prior to a visit with an SMP doc.

I was actually surprised that it looks marginally better than my particular HT did grown out. Definitely still not ideal or something I'm very comfortable with though.

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it seems you expect full density in all situations with all hair styles

Going into it I definitely was hoping for natural appearing density, you're right. Not with *all* hair styles though, I'd be happy with just one that I liked.

I feel like I could have maybe been happy with an age-appropriate receding look (is that even possible with HT?) but I fucked up and let the doctor do basically the opposite of that on the 2nd HT, focusing on the hairline instead of the area behind.

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In my opinion, you should either consider smp and keep your hair shaved 

I'm leaning towards this being my best option and wanted to get advice, which was my primary reason for re-opening this thread. Maybe I ranted a little too much, sorry guys.

I feel like for the SMP to work I'm going to have to get transplanted hair removed, at the hair line at least. The complication here is that the SMP doc I saw said laser removal is not a good option for the hair line as it's too imprecise, I need to do electrolysis, but I'm having trouble finding any hair clinics that do electrolysis (the SMP doc doesnt), it seems like it's mostly aestheticians?

Edited October 2, 2018 by whyevenbother

[Melvin- Admin]

In my opinion, I would not remove any hair, regardless SMP is not 3D so as long as you shave continuously the transplanted haie should make no difference. In order for SMP to look natural you have to maintain the fresh shaved look.  If I were you I would do a hair system, you can have zero recession and have a really cool hairstyle and if you ever get tired of it, just shave and do SMP.

[whyevenbother]

See attached pic for the reason I'm afraid I'll need to get some hairline removed if I go SMP. As it is the hairline is noticeably darker than the rest of my head... and I had another ~300-500 grafts placed on the hairline which haven't grown in yet.

Related, can anyone tell me just how short I need to keep my hair with SMP? As short as in the pic below, or could I let it go as long as the pics I posted above? I think not right? Somewhere in between?

Shaving this close to the skin was a nightmare, I cut the ever living shit out of myself. Hopefully I will get better at that with practice but my skin is super sensitive and my scalp has a lot of lumps on it that are hard to shave.

 

Edited October 2, 2018 by whyevenbother

[Melvin- Admin]

I’m fairly certain the smp would match the entire scalp in terms of color. 

[Gasthoerer]

My very personal opinion: You should do nth with your hair for one year and look for help in other areas (and this is not an offence). Your arguments are so weird, that I fear you will do sth stupid which you will regret even more. 

Of course if Melvin is right about SMP.