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Payam

3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

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On 3/17/2018 at 11:23 AM, Payam said:

Day 3 post op

I am seeing some really bad gaps in my hairline today, coordinator at the clinic is saying it is completely normal but when i google answers from other surgeons and MD's they are saying it is NOT normal and that i should contact the surgeon immediately, which is impossible at this clinic, so i have to trust my coordinator for now..

Day 3 and your panicking... I mean what the fuck... you should never have even contemplated having a HT

  • Haha 1

Hair Transplant: 5019 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, April 2018

 

Stats

 

  • Hairs per graft ratio : 2.29
  • Total grafts : 5019
  • Total hairs : 11493
  • Hair thickness 58 microns
  • Singles : 573
  • Doubles : 2602
  • Triples : 1677
  • Quadruples : 162
  • Quintuples : 5

 

Hair loss regime

 

Proscar 1.25mg daily

Biotin 1000ug daily

MSM 1500mg daily

Rogaine 5% foam Twice daily

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1 hour ago, highlander6 said:

I feel I must belatedly jump into this thread and post my asmed update, payam you have had it in for asmed from the beginning, maybe just maybe your stress and worrying caused it (if its actually that bad), also post a photo with your hair styled like a normal person. 5 years i took to decide on a doctor, and i feel like your trying to railroad a clinic with fantastic results. To many he has changed their lives, including myself...1676140106_PointBlur_Mar162019_074008.thumb.jpg.82d8b1318503e1ad7d28a5274794e936.jpg342220720_PhotoCollage_20190316_155423737.thumb.jpg.2d2e8c2d492c9477af7697d37630797e.jpg

This just proves a major point.  You clearly had success.  You had more extensive hairloss then Payam from the start.  Payam had less coverage area to cover versus the number of grafts used.  Yet your result looks much better in terms of yield overall based on your coverage area. Payam, clearly isn’t at this point yet it seems from what was posters .  You are living the happy life obviously with the money you spent.  I do not think Payam is doing that just yet.  It’s ok to discredit others if there is a strong valid point, but I think based on what is presented, there are quite a few people concerned and hoping things grow well for Payam.  Due to grafts used and coverage area, it is not a similar comparison.  It’s an unfortunate situation, but the guy clearly is no where near the result you have at this point based on the pics you presented in comparison. 5019 grafts is a lot of grafts and looks like it worked well for you.   

In any case, Payam, hope things are getting better.  How is your donor right now?  

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Sean said:

This just proves a major point.  You clearly had success.  You had more extensive hairloss then Payam from the start.  Payam had less coverage area to cover versus the number of grafts used.  Yet your result looks much better in terms of yield overall based on your coverage area. Payam, clearly isn’t at this point yet it seems from what was posters .  You are living the happy life obviously with the money you spent.  I do not think Payam is doing that just yet.  It’s ok to discredit others if there is a strong valid point, but I think based on what is presented, there are quite a few people concerned and hoping things grow well for Payam.  Due to grafts used and coverage area, it is not a similar comparison.  It’s an unfortunate situation, but the guy clearly is no where near the result you have at this point based on the pics you presented in comparison. 5019 grafts is a lot of grafts and looks like it worked well for you.   

In any case, Payam, hope things are getting better.  How is your donor right now?  

I think the tables need to be balanced, payam is not happy with Dr Erdogen but many many more are.Also to enable a "strong valid point" as you say, he should give us a proper styled photo instead, of styling it ridiculously... I believe i too could part my hair so it looked worse! If i'd have read this thread previous to my op, maybe i wouldn't have chose Dr Erdogen... and that would have been a huge mistake on my part. From payam's second ever post at 3 days post op he has been complaining of the clinic. Clearly he should never have opted for a HT from ANY clinic!

Edited by highlander6

Hair Transplant: 5019 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, April 2018

 

Stats

 

  • Hairs per graft ratio : 2.29
  • Total grafts : 5019
  • Total hairs : 11493
  • Hair thickness 58 microns
  • Singles : 573
  • Doubles : 2602
  • Triples : 1677
  • Quadruples : 162
  • Quintuples : 5

 

Hair loss regime

 

Proscar 1.25mg daily

Biotin 1000ug daily

MSM 1500mg daily

Rogaine 5% foam Twice daily

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I don't understand the reasoning with this, because some people had a good result and are happy, those who didn't shouldn't say anything or express their disappointment? 

I think the best thing for everyone involved is to express your feelings about your own result, and let others express theirs without trying to put them down. Post your review and results and if you are happy, great. However, its ridiculous to try and discredit someone elses experience because it doesn't match you own. It's clear to see Payams, mine and a bunch of other recent patients haven't had good results, or at least the results they were expecting. We are entitled to voice our opinion on our own surgeries without people who are happy with theirs shouting over us and trying to make out we are crazy.

Im genuinely happy for those who are pleased with their results. But this whole thing of trying to discredit people who haven't had the same result, the mentality that "mines great so stop complaining about yours" just isn't logical. If your results are that great, the pics will speak for themselves. Thats how you can express your loyalty to your Dr. However, attacking people who are unhappy with their result and name calling and generally trying to drown them out just makes you look dumb.

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1 hour ago, kw877 said:

I don't understand the reasoning with this, because some people had a good result and are happy, those who didn't shouldn't say anything or express their disappointment? 

I think the best thing for everyone involved is to express your feelings about your own result, and let others express theirs without trying to put them down. Post your review and results and if you are happy, great. However, its ridiculous to try and discredit someone elses experience because it doesn't match you own. It's clear to see Payams, mine and a bunch of other recent patients haven't had good results, or at least the results they were expecting. We are entitled to voice our opinion on our own surgeries without people who are happy with theirs shouting over us and trying to make out we are crazy.

Im genuinely happy for those who are pleased with their results. But this whole thing of trying to discredit people who haven't had the same result, the mentality that "mines great so stop complaining about yours" just isn't logical. If your results are that great, the pics will speak for themselves. Thats how you can express your loyalty to your Dr. However, attacking people who are unhappy with their result and name calling and generally trying to drown them out just makes you look dumb.

The point isn't what you're suggesting it is. Payam has quite literally said on other forums for example that you'll get butchered if you go to ASMED, they don't stand by their work, the majority are getting bad work etc. Absurd and factually incorrect criticisms. The fact is there are still hundreds of happy patients who have received top-tier work, in terms of the 5000 graft FUE cases there are no other surgeons *period* that are doing this type of work, still with immaculate donor areas. That's all highlander is emphasising, countering the ludicrous suggestion that they're a bad clinic and don't back their results. There are a significant number of people that are very happy, Payam is clearly trying to steer people away from the clinic and often with dishonesty, its fair enough that people who are happy offer an alternative view of their experience with ASMED. To pretend that its "attacking" anyone is silly. 

If your result isn't up to standard (even your own personal standard) imo especially when they're working on 6 patients a day they should and would be willing to find a remedy. In Payam's case they were and would be willing to do so, however he turned the option down and decided to continue attacking the clinic often with information that's downright false. If you go to the clinic and get a poor result, then don't accept the help they offer (I suspect the touchups like in PlanetS's case are completely free) then go somewhere else and get the issues fixed. Payam says he has the money for a fix and has surgeons who he much prefers, at this point it appears he enjoys complaining more than he desires a better result. Its a small amount of grafts that would get him to a very good result, there's no reason in the world for him not to proceed with that assuming he's truthful about the financial aspect.

The other criticism is that Payam in particular only shows the hair from one angle in his videos, extreme closeups in very harsh lighting in photos, often has wet hair, combs the transplanted area in the opposite direction to the flow of the rest of the hair, and in general clearly wants to make the result look worse. If you have nothing to hide and the result is poor, then show it like a normal person. Its not hard. His result is below par no one denies it, but its helpful to stop hiding reality.

In your case I would certainly expect more growth, however you're still a long while from final results and I don't believe for a second that if you're unhappy and it doesn't improve they wouldn't be willing to offer a remedy.  You aren't crazy to complain,  but to pretend that below-par density doesn't occur occasionally among every surgeon on this forum including the cream of the crop makes you most certainly sound uninformed.

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1 hour ago, JayLDD said:

The point isn't what you're suggesting it is. Payam has quite literally said on other forums for example that you'll get butchered if you go to ASMED, they don't stand by their work, the majority are getting bad work etc. Absurd and factually incorrect criticisms. The fact is there are still hundreds of happy patients who have received top-tier work, in terms of the 5000 graft FUE cases there are no other surgeons *period* that are doing this type of work, still with immaculate donor areas. That's all highlander is emphasising, countering the ludicrous suggestion that they're a bad clinic and don't back their results. There are a significant number of people that are very happy, Payam is clearly trying to steer people away from the clinic and often with dishonesty, its fair enough that people who are happy offer an alternative view of their experience with ASMED. To pretend that its "attacking" anyone is silly. 

If your result isn't up to standard (even your own personal standard) imo especially when they're working on 6 patients a day they should and would be willing to find a remedy. In Payam's case they were and would be willing to do so, however he turned the option down and decided to continue attacking the clinic often with information that's downright false. If you go to the clinic and get a poor result, then don't accept the help they offer (I suspect the touchups like in PlanetS's case are completely free) then go somewhere else and get the issues fixed. Payam says he has the money for a fix and has surgeons who he much prefers, at this point it appears he enjoys complaining more than he desires a better result. Its a small amount of grafts that would get him to a very good result, there's no reason in the world for him not to proceed with that assuming he's truthful about the financial aspect.

The other criticism is that Payam in particular only shows the hair from one angle in his videos, extreme closeups in very harsh lighting in photos, often has wet hair, combs the transplanted area in the opposite direction to the flow of the rest of the hair, and in general clearly wants to make the result look worse. If you have nothing to hide and the result is poor, then show it like a normal person. Its not hard. His result is below par no one denies it, but its helpful to stop hiding reality.

In your case I would certainly expect more growth, however you're still a long while from final results and I don't believe for a second that if you're unhappy and it doesn't improve they wouldn't be willing to offer a remedy.  You aren't crazy to complain,  but to pretend that below-par density doesn't occur occasionally among every surgeon on this forum including the cream of the crop makes you most certainly sound uninformed.

I agree with you man. I think both sides, the proponents and those against should simply present their results and experience and let the pictures etc speak for themselves. Lately the forum has devolved into a place of name calling and attacking each other. Not necessarily in payams case, but Stephen and others have been called mentally unstable and shit. We should all respect one another’s experiences. That’s all.

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Hey guys, here is a month 15 update for those still interested, really sorry for the delay, as I said I have been going through a rough patch in real life and have had to focus on that, I've been reading the forums though and other ASMED cases in particular.

I recently have had consultations with two of the worlds top clinics and have another one in August with another leading clinic, I have been quoted 1500 grafts to fix this by both, we will see what the third one says but I expect it to be similar. 

Photos are after a shower with hair blow dried. Here is a summary of the issues: 

Image 1 Left side: this is the same side as my videos, density is bad, so bad that my hair falls flat when I slick it that way as if I have a hole in my head, I cover this side by slicking over it as in image 2 and 3.

Image 2 Right side: density is better but not good enough, looks quite pluggy in person, the camera does make it look softer, this is the side I reveal when I style my hair as In image 2 and 3.

Image 3 front: growth was better here and I am relatively happy, pluggy due to doubles and triples but I can live with that, it's not noticeable if I feather my hair forward as in the picture. 

Crown: I will make a separate update with pictures for my crown, when wet it looks roughly like pre-op, when dry it looks better. I don't know what to expect in terms of cosmetic improvement with only 800 grafts here but I can at least make it look good with toppik which is good enough for me. 

The takeaway from my consultations were that:

1. I have fantastic hair quality, strength and caliber

2. There is nowhere near 2800 grafts growing in my frontal third. 

3. I have healed very nicely and my donor looks to have the capacity for a few thousand more grafts, also with my level of hairloss and its progression at 35 another procedure is not a big risk.

So there you have it, I'm not going to respond to the ASMED patients gloating about their great results, I think this type of behavior really speaks for itself. 

As for me deliberately trying to disparage the clinic, I only ask you to look at the recent results from this clinic and ask yourself if you with a clear conscience could recommend ASMED to a friend or family member.

To the other guys with lackluster results from this clinic, pm me if you want to talk or want advice on your options looking forward, thanks fellas. 

IMG_20190509_142212.jpg

IMG_20190509_142050.jpg

IMG_20190509_152754.jpg

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Payam,

I'm glad you have given us an update on your progress. I am sorry to hear you're disappointed with your results. Truthfully, I think you actually look pretty good. This is just my personal opinion. Can the results be better? Absolutely, but almost every hair transplant patient can say the same. Ultimately, I hope you're able to be happy whatever you decide on doing in the future, if you decide on another surgery I sincerely hope you will create another thread of your journey 🙂

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

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27 minutes ago, Payam said:

Hey guys, here is a month 15 update for those still interested, really sorry for the delay, as I said I have been going through a rough patch in real life and have had to focus on that, I've been reading the forums though and other ASMED cases in particular.

I recently have had consultations with two of the worlds top clinics and have another one in August with another leading clinic, I have been quoted 1500 grafts to fix this by both, we will see what the third one says but I expect it to be similar. 

Photos are after a shower with hair blow dried. Here is a summary of the issues: 

Image 1 Left side: this is the same side as my videos, density is bad, so bad that my hair falls flat when I slick it that way as if I have a hole in my head, I cover this side by slicking over it as in image 2 and 3.

Image 2 Right side: density is better but not good enough, looks quite pluggy in person, the camera does make it look softer, this is the side I reveal when I style my hair as In image 2 and 3.

Image 3 front: growth was better here and I am relatively happy, pluggy due to doubles and triples but I can live with that, it's not noticeable if I feather my hair forward as in the picture. 

Crown: I will make a separate update with pictures for my crown, when wet it looks roughly like pre-op, when dry it looks better. I don't know what to expect in terms of cosmetic improvement with only 800 grafts here but I can at least make it look good with toppik which is good enough for me. 

The takeaway from my consultations were that:

1. I have fantastic hair quality, strength and caliber

2. There is nowhere near 2800 grafts growing in my frontal third. 

3. I have healed very nicely and my donor looks to have the capacity for a few thousand more grafts, also with my level of hairloss and its progression at 35 another procedure is not a big risk.

So there you have it, I'm not going to respond to the ASMED patients gloating about their great results, I think this type of behavior really speaks for itself. 

As for me deliberately trying to disparage the clinic, I only ask you to look at the recent results from this clinic and ask yourself if you with a clear conscience could recommend ASMED to a friend or family member.

To the other guys with lackluster results from this clinic, pm me if you want to talk or want advice on your options looking forward, thanks fellas. 

IMG_20190509_142212.jpg

IMG_20190509_142050.jpg

IMG_20190509_152754.jpg

Hey mate,

Thanks for keeping with it, and staying with the updates.

Firstly, don't pay attention to those who need to gloat on another's post, simply to let the world know they're happy with their result.

Completely irrelevant, and borderline insecure.

Secondly, it's actually not too bad at all. We are our own harshest critic, and I think you still look good. Of course it could be better, but the good this is that one more procedure to tighten things up, and you will be on to a real winner.

All the best!

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Hi payam thanks for updating with photos as you would naturally style your hair . In my opinion it looks pretty good ,but yes you are correct the left side needs more density and refinement. 

I'm pleased to see there isn't any pitting or cobble stoning as you at one stage were concerned with ,shame about the left side as a pain to have to go for a second round to sort it out ,but overall thankfully has turned out not too bad ,is it a home-run as our American cousins say ,no it isn't ,but it certainly isn't a bodge job or anything like it , best of luck for the future .

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To be honest I'm perplexed at the assertion this needs 1500 grafts to "fix". Ok its not a home run but its not that bad! A 600 - 800 graft touch up would work wonders. 

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Payam, glad you got professional opinions to validate concerns.  Remember, true lateral slits and attention to proper angulation can also help with the sparse areas as well.  I am hoping after all this is done with, you can successfully move forward.  I am in a very tough spot where my hairline in front where it was grafted looks totally unnatural and far more see through.  One takeaway is this, at least your scalp is not too scarred and I think a touch up in the right hands will correct this.  Thanks for sharing your updates and staying strong.  Best wishes.

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You are in a position where you can still achieve your desired result. And although this procedure was a failure, because let's just be honest and say it was, it didn't send you backwards from your starting position but rather some way towards where you want to be. There are guys who had botch jobs that ruined their lives. You are far from them!

 

Now stay strong and chose your path carefully.

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@Melvin-Moderator thanks bro, we don't always see eye to eye but I can tell your heart is in the right place, I will for sure document my repair here

@Greg_Swansonthank you mate I appreciate it, it's sad really, this level of servility in grown men. I'm sad my hair isn't great, but all the happier I don't have a personality defect, in the end that's what matters most to others in your life

@Mick50 i have accepted it and frankly am looking forward to my next transplant so I can finally put this ordeal behind me, I would say it looks quite a bit worse to the naked eye but in the end I can cover it relatively well with a comb-over, it's the lost grafts and time I am most saddened by, thanks for the support from the very start mate I truly do appreciate it 

@Baldrick101 from what I understand transplanting into an impacted area will have less growth due to scar tissue, so they are forced to compensate by exaggerating the number of grafts needed to ensure a good result. I have 100% trust in the clinics I have consulted with in terms of ethics, I know they are looking out for my best interest and not their wallets.

@Sean I really hope your situation improves bro, no one deserves to go through this and I realize my case is not as bad as yours. I think you should look towards Konior and no one else, you need a specialist in every sense of the word and that man is a wizard when it comes to transplants, at least go for an in person consultation to see what he makes of your case. 

@BjornBorg I agree bro, it is a failure but not a botched horrorshow by any means, i realize it's unfair to those poor bastards that were butchered to call it that so for that I'm sorry. I am very disappointed though and unfortunately I am far from being alone in this. Luckily we're at a point now where more people are realizing something is wrong with this clinic, it feels good to know the negatives aren't being successfully suppressed by ASMEDs marketing team and sycophants. 

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Is it possible to get a refund? Not the whole sum but maybe a part of it? 


 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, munich said:

Is it possible to get a refund? Not the whole sum but maybe a part of it? 

I looked at your thread and I'm sorry bro, I know how it feels, you won't get a refund though. I have not spoken with a single person who managed to get a refund, best you will get is a free touch up and hope to God they don't screw it up again, but who in their right mind would take that risk? Especially with the recent results from this clinic. You are better off posting your result, not only on this forum but your native language forum as well if you have one and start planning for a repair at a clinic with high doctor involvement. 

 

Edited by Payam
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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Payam said:

I looked at your thread and I'm sorry bro, I know how it feels, you won't get a refund though. I have not spoken with a single person who managed to get a refund, best you will get is a free touch up and hope to God they don't screw it up again, but who in their right mind would take that risk? Especially with the recent results from this clinic. You are better off posting your result, not only on this forum but your native language forum as well if you have one and start planning for a repair at a clinic with high doctor involvement. 

 

Yeah I'm not going to use them again because it'll likely waste more grafts. However, since they offer free touch ups, it would actually be financially better for them to offer me a small refund as opposed to taking me for a free surgery because they could fill that surgery slot with a full paying customer rather than me, a customer they will be generating 0 more revenue from. They would net positive a higher amount by giving me a small refund and giving surgery to someone else who will be generating revenue for them.

I considering going to H&W next year 

 

Edit: oops I'm in so many threads I thought I was replying to one in mine. Sorry lol

Edited by Der3k7

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54 minutes ago, Payam said:

I looked at your thread and I'm sorry bro, I know how it feels, you won't get a refund though. I have not spoken with a single person who managed to get a refund, best you will get is a free touch up and hope to God they don't screw it up again, but who in their right mind would take that risk? Especially with the recent results from this clinic. You are better off posting your result, not only on this forum but your native language forum as well if you have one and start planning for a repair at a clinic with high doctor involvement. 

 

This is what I have just done. I am sitting in my hotel in Ankara ready to go back to London tomorrow. My hairline was nowhere near as bad as some of what I have seen lately from ASMED, but it was not not good at all and bothered me for many years since 2015. The experience with Dr. Keser was night and day to ASMED.. I literally have no words to describe the difference that having the doctor do everything himself makes. He even lowered my graft estimate by 100, the guy is seriously ethical. I was also told my donor was aggressively harvested and that ASMED's estimation that I began with 8000 grafts was way off. Hope I can finally be done with all this now. 

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Hello Johnny

 

sorry to jump in, but do you have a link to your original operation?

 

Chris  


 

 

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2 hours ago, Kraistoff said:

Hello Johnny

 

sorry to jump in, but do you have a link to your original operation?

 

Chris  

No, I didn't make a thread, I went to ASMED based on his results which seemed much better back then, not based on the messes we are seeing here. Trust me, I have since learnt things that his fellow professionals in the industry think about him which I'm not going to go as far as saying.

 

My experience there was bad. Its not how you are supposed to be treated during a cosmetic surgery that you pay a large amount of money for. I spent minutes with the surgeon, minutes! Everything behind the hairline was ok and it damn well better be for 4600 grafts when I only bloody needed 2000 according to my latest surgeon.

 

And to the people defending all these latest pluggy results. Please. Just stop.

 

My advice to anyone is go to a surgeon who performs the surgery himself. It seems like common sense when you say it out loud, right? I was younger but still should have known better.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/14/2019 at 11:14 PM, jonnyalex said:

 

 

Edited by Payam

 

 

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On 5/15/2019 at 2:44 AM, jonnyalex said:

No, I didn't make a thread, I went to ASMED based on his results which seemed much better back then, not based on the messes we are seeing here. Trust me, I have since learnt things that his fellow professionals in the industry think about him which I'm not going to go as far as saying.

 

My experience there was bad. Its not how you are supposed to be treated during a cosmetic surgery that you pay a large amount of money for. I spent minutes with the surgeon, minutes! Everything behind the hairline was ok and it damn well better be for 4600 grafts when I only bloody needed 2000 according to my latest surgeon.

 

And to the people defending all these latest pluggy results. Please. Just stop.

 

My advice to anyone is go to a surgeon who performs the surgery himself. It seems like common sense when you say it out loud, right? I was younger but still should have known better.

 

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