3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

[FarsanUk]

1 hour ago, jonnyalex said:

He didn't have much choice if he wanted it fixed now. They refused a refund and I imagine agreed to fix it for free. You can have your own opinion but discussing a member's mental health outside of his own thread is pretty poor form and I think you should drop it. 

He had every right to complain the first time, as will he the second time if he is not happy. 

He did have a choice we all have a choice. If this messes up like the previous one at the same damn place he may not be able to repair it and if he went through the right channels he would have got a partial refund (again we are not aware if he was refused refund). We call the shots right up to the point of sitting In that chair no one hasto go through with it just because they refused a refund. The pain and paranoia of the post op would be greatly reduced if you don't go back( to some one who he described as a disaster result) and go to someone of a higher standard-yes more money but it'll be worth it. Thats not to say asmed is a really bad clinic because it's not but to go back to any clinic where you've had a disaster as he describes just defies logic.

Edited March 13, 2019 by FarsanUk

[FarsanUk]

8 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Guys,

This discussion is totally off-topic. This thread is for Payam and his results. If you guys have personal disagreements. You guys can PM eachother or me, but let’s keep this thread on topic and no longer de-rail it with side conversations. 

Thanks for your cooperation-Melvin 

Noted Melvin no problem. I couldn't not reply back to Steven when he posted on here and then of course it just goes on and on. Let's get back to Payum

[kw877]

9 hours ago, FarsanUk said:

In that case we should close this website becsuse everyone has opinions and there are no qualified experts on this site apart from the odd doctor. You complained your ass off and then you went back to the same place now don't complain if it it's still a disaster.

We don't all have thousands of pounds flying out of our arses for multiple surgeries. Stephen made a decision based on his viable options. Respectfully disagree or move on, who are you to tell people not to complain? On a forum to voice our experiences of our surgeries no less. Maybe save your armchair psychology for another forum.

Payam, myself, Stephen and others are all experiencing very similar issues and the few people that are happy with their results from the same clinic think its acceptable to trash talk others whose experience isn't as positive. Its like those who have a good result have some strange loyalty to the clinic, that makes them want to drown out any complaints by saying we have mental issues or just outright name calling on every single post. Payam isn't happy, neither are multiple others. Let them voice this without trying to somehow invalidate it just because your experience was better, its petty af.

[tofuparty]

Of course you would go back to the same place that screwed things up since you want to get what you originally paid for. It's like paying a mechanic to fix your car and he does a bad job, you go back and get him to complete the job you have already paid for. Plus I imagine the second time round the surgeon will make you their top priority since they don't want it continue any further.

[Der3k7]

I'm at 18 weeks after asmed myself and haven't improved above baseline yet. Don't see any new sprouts

[Gasthoerer]

10 minutes ago, tofuparty said:

Of course you would go back to the same place that screwed things up since you want to get what you originally paid for. It's like paying a mechanic to fix your car and he does a bad job, you go back and get him to complete the job you have already paid for.

Ähh, no. Many people, including myself, would never do that. I doubt Payam would do that. Your head is not a car. If you really did not feel well with the clinic the first time (Payman did not for example even before his result was there) or you think the result was a "disaster" you should not (!) go back. If you are overall happy and it is a small touch up...that is another story.

[Gasthoerer]

9 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

I'm at 18 weeks after asmed myself and haven't improved above baseline yet. Don't see any new sprouts

This is normal, relax and I recommend not to look at threads like this for the next month. Almost everyone looks like sh.t after 3 month.

 

[Der3k7]

10 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

This is normal, relax and I recommend not to look at threads like this for the next month. Almost everyone looks like sh.t after 3 month.

 

That guy looks good at 4 month and 1 week. The gap clearly filled in. I'm at that same time of 4 months and 1 weeks and am nowhere close lol

[PlanetStephen]

8 hours ago, tofuparty said:

Of course you would go back to the same place that screwed things up since you want to get what you originally paid for. It's like paying a mechanic to fix your car and he does a bad job, you go back and get him to complete the job you have already paid for. Plus I imagine the second time round the surgeon will make you their top priority since they don't want it continue any further.

🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻👏🏻

[Sean]

23 hours ago, tofuparty said:

Of course you would go back to the same place that screwed things up since you want to get what you originally paid for. It's like paying a mechanic to fix your car and he does a bad job, you go back and get him to complete the job you have already paid for. Plus I imagine the second time round the surgeon will make you their top priority since they don't want it continue any further.

Some folks think it is ok to do that but in the second time around a surgeon may get careless . They may use chunkier grafts and bigger punches.  They may cause more scarring within the zones already grafted and leaving you with ridging or cobblestoning.  Then possibly send you elswhere after they realize they did a good job destroying vascularization to your scalp and you are having to go back and forth and hoping to get out of a nightmare situation.  I really hope that this really comes to an end soon.  It is brutal and folks shouldn'thave to go through repairs.  Repairs can be very risky if done wrong and you are already utilizing pricelesss grafts.   Fml

[UKLad81]

On 3/8/2019 at 7:35 AM, JayLDD said:

No definitely not, but I think it’s downright *moronic* to expect going into a transplant that you’re guaranteed a good result with any clinic, and that if you don’t get one you’re going to shit on the clinic.

I show the poor Cooley results above because anyone who has done their research would understand that virtually any clinic no matter how highly regarded regularly gets poor results if you judge statistically (even roughly) across all surgeons. If 5-15% of results from virtually every surgeon are at a similar standard to Payams (they are and everyone should do proper research and stop focusing on top tier results) the hysteria here appears evidently insane. 

It’s also clearly not a disaster, the density is poor but he’s in a better position than preop and a 1500 graft touchup would likely get him in a very strong position.

Payam has the right to complain his results are poor, but to say like he did on the other forum to everyone considering a procedure with Erdogan they “will be butchered” is ridiculous and reflects more poorly on him than the clinic. A normal person with basic understanding of success rates would have accepted and moved on or consulted rationally about a touchup/refund rather than shitting on them, being blatantly dishonest, often outright lying and then expecting sympathy.

@JayLDD sorry mate but have you seen my result to call it a poor result? I dont see any recent pictures of myself anywhere on the forum for you to even suggest it was a poor (or a good) result? Let’s not make assumptions. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Guys,

Let’s keep this thread on topic, no need tp bring up anyone else’s result besides Payam. To date, we haven’t seen any different angles or the total results. So in reality there’s not much to say about his results.

[JayLDD]

11 hours ago, UKLad81 said:

@JayLDD sorry mate but have you seen my result to call it a poor result? I dont see any recent pictures of myself anywhere on the forum for you to even suggest it was a poor (or a good) result? Let’s not make assumptions. 

I thought it was incredibly unlikely that you had gone from what appears like 20%ish yield of grafts to an above par result when your last post was at 8 months. I'm not saying that to be insulting or to knock your doctor as I'd happily have gone to him myself, but I specifically brought it up here to emphasise that a bad result isn't relegated to surgeons that use techs for extractions or non Americans.  Cooley is widely respected by virtually everyone but your result and the other I posted there clearly show that being an American or having more doctor participation in a surgery doesn't guarantee good results like some here are trying to pretend. If I'm wrong and it drastically improved from 8 months feel free to post it I'm sure a lot of people would be interested.

If some people spent the amount of time researching doctors and results as they do whining or complaining here they'd figure out that there isn't a 100% chance of a good result no matter the doctor. The success rate is for 90%+ growth is likely only just above the 80% mark for even top surgeons. But of course people only want to look and compare themselves to top results in favourable lighting and styling conditions while ignoring any other relevant factors or actual patient posted result success rates among a variety of surgeons. I do think Payam's result is evidently below-par but its probably telling that he refuses to post pics or video from different angles and combs the bad side in the opposite direction to how the rest of the hairs flows.

[abysmo]

On 3/22/2019 at 8:15 PM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Guys,

Let’s keep this thread on topic, no need tp bring up anyone else’s result besides Payam. To date, we haven’t seen any different angles or the total results. So in reality there’s not much to say about his results.

Dear Melvin,

I hear your request but this is the only post that I can find a collected information about what's going wrong with latest results. With all my respect to Dr. Koray Erdoğan, I am losing my hope on my result since it's been 8 months from the op. My hair looks like below and unfortunately noone is discussing possible failures on those personel single posts. At this particular moment, I'm in a desperate need for a reasonable explanation why I'm looking like this. No significant change since 5 months and now I'm wondering is it possible for the remaining grafts (approx %60-%70 of total) to popout suddenly and all together after they have slept under for 8 months. And what are the odds for that ?

 

 

[thappa]

@abysmoFrom my personal experience, i do not think that after 8 months suddenly all the sleeping hairs will pop out. If it is not shown out by 6 months it is most likely dead. Do not have false hope that suddenly it will burst.

[Melvin- Admin]

11 hours ago, abysmo said:

Dear Melvin,

I hear your request but this is the only post that I can find a collected information about what's going wrong with latest results. With all my respect to Dr. Koray Erdoğan, I am losing my hope on my result since it's been 8 months from the op. My hair looks like below and unfortunately noone is discussing possible failures on those personel single posts. At this particular moment, I'm in a desperate need for a reasonable explanation why I'm looking like this. No significant change since 5 months and now I'm wondering is it possible for the remaining grafts (approx %60-%70 of total) to popout suddenly and all together after they have slept under for 8 months. And what are the odds for that

8 months is still early. I suggest creating your own thread and tracking your progress.

[highlander6]

I feel I must belatedly jump into this thread and post my asmed update, payam you have had it in for asmed from the beginning, maybe just maybe your stress and worrying caused it (if its actually that bad), also post a photo with your hair styled like a normal person. 5 years i took to decide on a doctor, and i feel like your trying to railroad a clinic with fantastic results. To many he has changed their lives, including myself...

[highlander6]

On 3/17/2018 at 11:23 AM, Payam said:

Day 3 post op

I am seeing some really bad gaps in my hairline today, coordinator at the clinic is saying it is completely normal but when i google answers from other surgeons and MD's they are saying it is NOT normal and that i should contact the surgeon immediately, which is impossible at this clinic, so i have to trust my coordinator for now..

Day 3 and your panicking... I mean what the fuck... you should never have even contemplated having a HT

[Sean]

1 hour ago, highlander6 said:

I feel I must belatedly jump into this thread and post my asmed update, payam you have had it in for asmed from the beginning, maybe just maybe your stress and worrying caused it (if its actually that bad), also post a photo with your hair styled like a normal person. 5 years i took to decide on a doctor, and i feel like your trying to railroad a clinic with fantastic results. To many he has changed their lives, including myself...

This just proves a major point.  You clearly had success.  You had more extensive hairloss then Payam from the start.  Payam had less coverage area to cover versus the number of grafts used.  Yet your result looks much better in terms of yield overall based on your coverage area. Payam, clearly isn’t at this point yet it seems from what was posters .  You are living the happy life obviously with the money you spent.  I do not think Payam is doing that just yet.  It’s ok to discredit others if there is a strong valid point, but I think based on what is presented, there are quite a few people concerned and hoping things grow well for Payam.  Due to grafts used and coverage area, it is not a similar comparison.  It’s an unfortunate situation, but the guy clearly is no where near the result you have at this point based on the pics you presented in comparison. 5019 grafts is a lot of grafts and looks like it worked well for you.   

In any case, Payam, hope things are getting better.  How is your donor right now?  

[highlander6]

13 hours ago, Sean said:

This just proves a major point.  You clearly had success.  You had more extensive hairloss then Payam from the start.  Payam had less coverage area to cover versus the number of grafts used.  Yet your result looks much better in terms of yield overall based on your coverage area. Payam, clearly isn’t at this point yet it seems from what was posters .  You are living the happy life obviously with the money you spent.  I do not think Payam is doing that just yet.  It’s ok to discredit others if there is a strong valid point, but I think based on what is presented, there are quite a few people concerned and hoping things grow well for Payam.  Due to grafts used and coverage area, it is not a similar comparison.  It’s an unfortunate situation, but the guy clearly is no where near the result you have at this point based on the pics you presented in comparison. 5019 grafts is a lot of grafts and looks like it worked well for you.   

In any case, Payam, hope things are getting better.  How is your donor right now?  

I think the tables need to be balanced, payam is not happy with Dr Erdogen but many many more are.Also to enable a "strong valid point" as you say, he should give us a proper styled photo instead, of styling it ridiculously... I believe i too could part my hair so it looked worse! If i'd have read this thread previous to my op, maybe i wouldn't have chose Dr Erdogen... and that would have been a huge mistake on my part. From payam's second ever post at 3 days post op he has been complaining of the clinic. Clearly he should never have opted for a HT from ANY clinic!

Edited March 31, 2019 by highlander6

[kw877]

I don't understand the reasoning with this, because some people had a good result and are happy, those who didn't shouldn't say anything or express their disappointment? 

I think the best thing for everyone involved is to express your feelings about your own result, and let others express theirs without trying to put them down. Post your review and results and if you are happy, great. However, its ridiculous to try and discredit someone elses experience because it doesn't match you own. It's clear to see Payams, mine and a bunch of other recent patients haven't had good results, or at least the results they were expecting. We are entitled to voice our opinion on our own surgeries without people who are happy with theirs shouting over us and trying to make out we are crazy.

Im genuinely happy for those who are pleased with their results. But this whole thing of trying to discredit people who haven't had the same result, the mentality that "mines great so stop complaining about yours" just isn't logical. If your results are that great, the pics will speak for themselves. Thats how you can express your loyalty to your Dr. However, attacking people who are unhappy with their result and name calling and generally trying to drown them out just makes you look dumb.

[JayLDD]

1 hour ago, kw877 said:

I don't understand the reasoning with this, because some people had a good result and are happy, those who didn't shouldn't say anything or express their disappointment? 

I think the best thing for everyone involved is to express your feelings about your own result, and let others express theirs without trying to put them down. Post your review and results and if you are happy, great. However, its ridiculous to try and discredit someone elses experience because it doesn't match you own. It's clear to see Payams, mine and a bunch of other recent patients haven't had good results, or at least the results they were expecting. We are entitled to voice our opinion on our own surgeries without people who are happy with theirs shouting over us and trying to make out we are crazy.

Im genuinely happy for those who are pleased with their results. But this whole thing of trying to discredit people who haven't had the same result, the mentality that "mines great so stop complaining about yours" just isn't logical. If your results are that great, the pics will speak for themselves. Thats how you can express your loyalty to your Dr. However, attacking people who are unhappy with their result and name calling and generally trying to drown them out just makes you look dumb.

The point isn't what you're suggesting it is. Payam has quite literally said on other forums for example that you'll get butchered if you go to ASMED, they don't stand by their work, the majority are getting bad work etc. Absurd and factually incorrect criticisms. The fact is there are still hundreds of happy patients who have received top-tier work, in terms of the 5000 graft FUE cases there are no other surgeons *period* that are doing this type of work, still with immaculate donor areas. That's all highlander is emphasising, countering the ludicrous suggestion that they're a bad clinic and don't back their results. There are a significant number of people that are very happy, Payam is clearly trying to steer people away from the clinic and often with dishonesty, its fair enough that people who are happy offer an alternative view of their experience with ASMED. To pretend that its "attacking" anyone is silly. 

If your result isn't up to standard (even your own personal standard) imo especially when they're working on 6 patients a day they should and would be willing to find a remedy. In Payam's case they were and would be willing to do so, however he turned the option down and decided to continue attacking the clinic often with information that's downright false. If you go to the clinic and get a poor result, then don't accept the help they offer (I suspect the touchups like in PlanetS's case are completely free) then go somewhere else and get the issues fixed. Payam says he has the money for a fix and has surgeons who he much prefers, at this point it appears he enjoys complaining more than he desires a better result. Its a small amount of grafts that would get him to a very good result, there's no reason in the world for him not to proceed with that assuming he's truthful about the financial aspect.

The other criticism is that Payam in particular only shows the hair from one angle in his videos, extreme closeups in very harsh lighting in photos, often has wet hair, combs the transplanted area in the opposite direction to the flow of the rest of the hair, and in general clearly wants to make the result look worse. If you have nothing to hide and the result is poor, then show it like a normal person. Its not hard. His result is below par no one denies it, but its helpful to stop hiding reality.

In your case I would certainly expect more growth, however you're still a long while from final results and I don't believe for a second that if you're unhappy and it doesn't improve they wouldn't be willing to offer a remedy.  You aren't crazy to complain,  but to pretend that below-par density doesn't occur occasionally among every surgeon on this forum including the cream of the crop makes you most certainly sound uninformed.

[kw877]

1 hour ago, JayLDD said:

The point isn't what you're suggesting it is. Payam has quite literally said on other forums for example that you'll get butchered if you go to ASMED, they don't stand by their work, the majority are getting bad work etc. Absurd and factually incorrect criticisms. The fact is there are still hundreds of happy patients who have received top-tier work, in terms of the 5000 graft FUE cases there are no other surgeons *period* that are doing this type of work, still with immaculate donor areas. That's all highlander is emphasising, countering the ludicrous suggestion that they're a bad clinic and don't back their results. There are a significant number of people that are very happy, Payam is clearly trying to steer people away from the clinic and often with dishonesty, its fair enough that people who are happy offer an alternative view of their experience with ASMED. To pretend that its "attacking" anyone is silly. 

If your result isn't up to standard (even your own personal standard) imo especially when they're working on 6 patients a day they should and would be willing to find a remedy. In Payam's case they were and would be willing to do so, however he turned the option down and decided to continue attacking the clinic often with information that's downright false. If you go to the clinic and get a poor result, then don't accept the help they offer (I suspect the touchups like in PlanetS's case are completely free) then go somewhere else and get the issues fixed. Payam says he has the money for a fix and has surgeons who he much prefers, at this point it appears he enjoys complaining more than he desires a better result. Its a small amount of grafts that would get him to a very good result, there's no reason in the world for him not to proceed with that assuming he's truthful about the financial aspect.

The other criticism is that Payam in particular only shows the hair from one angle in his videos, extreme closeups in very harsh lighting in photos, often has wet hair, combs the transplanted area in the opposite direction to the flow of the rest of the hair, and in general clearly wants to make the result look worse. If you have nothing to hide and the result is poor, then show it like a normal person. Its not hard. His result is below par no one denies it, but its helpful to stop hiding reality.

In your case I would certainly expect more growth, however you're still a long while from final results and I don't believe for a second that if you're unhappy and it doesn't improve they wouldn't be willing to offer a remedy.  You aren't crazy to complain,  but to pretend that below-par density doesn't occur occasionally among every surgeon on this forum including the cream of the crop makes you most certainly sound uninformed.

I agree with you man. I think both sides, the proponents and those against should simply present their results and experience and let the pictures etc speak for themselves. Lately the forum has devolved into a place of name calling and attacking each other. Not necessarily in payams case, but Stephen and others have been called mentally unstable and shit. We should all respect one another’s experiences. That’s all.

[Payam]

Hey guys, here is a month 15 update for those still interested, really sorry for the delay, as I said I have been going through a rough patch in real life and have had to focus on that, I've been reading the forums though and other ASMED cases in particular.

I recently have had consultations with two of the worlds top clinics and have another one in August with another leading clinic, I have been quoted 1500 grafts to fix this by both, we will see what the third one says but I expect it to be similar. 

Photos are after a shower with hair blow dried. Here is a summary of the issues: 

Image 1 Left side: this is the same side as my videos, density is bad, so bad that my hair falls flat when I slick it that way as if I have a hole in my head, I cover this side by slicking over it as in image 2 and 3.

Image 2 Right side: density is better but not good enough, looks quite pluggy in person, the camera does make it look softer, this is the side I reveal when I style my hair as In image 2 and 3.

Image 3 front: growth was better here and I am relatively happy, pluggy due to doubles and triples but I can live with that, it's not noticeable if I feather my hair forward as in the picture. 

Crown: I will make a separate update with pictures for my crown, when wet it looks roughly like pre-op, when dry it looks better. I don't know what to expect in terms of cosmetic improvement with only 800 grafts here but I can at least make it look good with toppik which is good enough for me. 

The takeaway from my consultations were that:

1. I have fantastic hair quality, strength and caliber

2. There is nowhere near 2800 grafts growing in my frontal third. 

3. I have healed very nicely and my donor looks to have the capacity for a few thousand more grafts, also with my level of hairloss and its progression at 35 another procedure is not a big risk.

So there you have it, I'm not going to respond to the ASMED patients gloating about their great results, I think this type of behavior really speaks for itself. 

As for me deliberately trying to disparage the clinic, I only ask you to look at the recent results from this clinic and ask yourself if you with a clear conscience could recommend ASMED to a friend or family member.

To the other guys with lackluster results from this clinic, pm me if you want to talk or want advice on your options looking forward, thanks fellas. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Payam,

I'm glad you have given us an update on your progress. I am sorry to hear you're disappointed with your results. Truthfully, I think you actually look pretty good. This is just my personal opinion. Can the results be better? Absolutely, but almost every hair transplant patient can say the same. Ultimately, I hope you're able to be happy whatever you decide on doing in the future, if you decide on another surgery I sincerely hope you will create another thread of your journey 🙂