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Payam

3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

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This is me 1 week post op with erdogan 2 months ago in November 2018

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Posted (edited)

It’s not the tech background and so forth Or what country they are from .. I prefer cute girls working on me than doctors anyways .. it’s the hairmill aspect of it .. at first it’s someone growing their business .. n now it’s just a total explosion into a hair mill .. and if u comfortable with that then it’s fine .. just know what u getting in to .. they are great at  megasessions at a affordable price .. that have a state of the art clinic with top tier tools .. also, I like to point out Erdogans clinic has one of the cleanest extractions .. they can move massive amount of hair and the donor always looks so clean .. 

Edited by Legend007

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I think my post op looks great. So unless damage was done to the grafts and they don't end up growing, my result should be really good

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That’s fair, these questions are fair and should be asked. Let’s stay on track though and ask the relevant questions that need answers. What’s the maximum surgeries per day? How are you supervising these surgeries whilst maintaining the quality? How much time are you spending with each patient on average? What are the training certifications or educational background of the techs? These are the relevant questions.

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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This thread is beyond bizarre...

I think everything that could be said has been said..... about 8-9 times.

It's just the same thing being re-hashed every monthly update...poor yield, bad techs/good techs, clinics fault/not the clinics fault, choose another doctor... rinse repeat.

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Posted (edited)

I apologize and will let this thread take its long & winding road forward. Okay, delete my post.  I'll try and keep my comments objective going forward.

ty.  peace...

Edited by jjsrader
I overstepped a bit.

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if Asmed was so great why we not seeing any solid results being posted, that says it all really. instead we have people who have gone back to Asmed for multiple procedures because they were unsatisfied first time round trying to tell us how nice the clinic is without backing up their claims. we are not fooled anymore with you BS. show us some new solid results.

jjsrader explained it perfectly not sure how that even comes across as racism. in turkey secondary school is not required. Turkey is still a third well country think people forget that. 

Dr Erdogan is no where near the elite level for hair transplants and i think these forums try to say he is.

Get the basics right, start producing natural results.....No one will be complaining. Instead they are taking peoples money and botching them up with these fake looking hairlines. 

 

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5 minutes ago, HT0416 said:

if Asmed was so great why we not seeing any solid results being posted, that says it all really. instead we have people who have gone back to Asmed for multiple procedures because they were unsatisfied first time round trying to tell us how nice the clinic is without backing up their claims. we are not fooled anymore with you BS. show us some new solid results.

jjsrader explained it perfectly not sure how that even comes across as racism. in turkey secondary school is not required. Turkey is still a third well country think people forget that. 

Dr Erdogan is no where near the elite level for hair transplants and i think these forums try to say he is.

Get the basics right, start producing natural results.....No one will be complaining. Instead they are taking peoples money and botching them up with these fake looking hairlines. 

 

Firstly, you don't know the educational background of the technicians, so how can you make these ridiculous comments. Secondly, what does the economic development of the country have to do with the quality of the procedure. There are high quality surgeons in developing countries such as India, as well as Turkey. Thirdly, ASMED has one of the most state-of-the-art facilities in the world. This comment is not only baseless, but ignorant as well. We can not expect to have a discussion with this sort of behavior. This is my last warning, it stops here. From this point forward, I will not entertain any posts discussing ethnic backgrounds or the economic development of a country. 

I have already asked Dr. Erdogan, to address the issues and concern that have to do with hair restoration. The age, gender, ethnic background or socioeconomic status of the surgeon, technicians or the country of the clinic are insignificant. If you want to continue participating in this forum, I suggest you stop making these baseless ignorant comments and stick with the questions that are relevant to hair restoration.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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11 hours ago, markymarc123 said:

This thread is beyond bizarre...

I think everything that could be said has been said..... about 8-9 times.

It's just the same thing being re-hashed every monthly update...poor yield, bad techs/good techs, clinics fault/not the clinics fault, choose another doctor... rinse repeat.

Don't forget the people who post about what a useless thread it is while contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion, those are the real MVPs

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, DEB1982 said:

Those same techs provided an outstanding result for myself. Point being that because you are unhappy with your result doesn’t mean that his model doesn’t work. It just hasn’t worked for yourself. 

You are making a lot of assumptions which is why it would be best to wait and hear what Dr Erdogan has to say on the matter himself. 

There is also Dilek who many of you are forgetting. She is a partner at Asmed and has been with Dr Erdogan since the beginning. She is also constantly on hand and on both of my surgeries she was in to check on me and also made a small number of incisions when I had surplus grafts. 

Your post implies there are many bad cases coming out of Asmed but this isn’t so. There are a couple on here who are unhappy and if there are multiple procedures every day then they must still be doing something right. 

So you were lucky and got the good team that day, I'm happy for you, and if it didn't matter which team operated on you I'm sure you wouldn't have asked for the same team on your second surgery.

Dilek popped in for a minute during my surgery, she's barely present during any of the stages and mostly only inspects the finished work. I would say there is a worring amount of bad cases from Asmed lately, as well as several sub par cases (for the number of grafts used) who require touch ups. Like I said Baubac has nearly the same number of clinic posted results despite Asmed performing 3-4 times the surgeries, weird isn't it.

Edited by Payam

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Payam said:

So you were lucky and got the good team that day, I'm happy for you, and if it didn't matter which team operated on you I'm sure you wouldn't have asked for the same team on your second surgery.

Dilek popped in for a minute during my surgery, she's barely present during any of the stages and mostly only inspects the finished work. I would say there is a worring amount of bad cases from Asmed lately, as well as several sub par cases (for the number of grafts used) who require touch ups. Like I said Baubac has nearly the same number of clinic posted results despite Asmed performing 3-4 times the surgeries, weird isn't it.

I was lucky! I spent months reviewing clinics and their cases before I committed to a Doctor. Any patient would request the same team of technicians as they understand my background. In all honestly I was told they assign you the same technicians anyway for that reason. I spoke to dozens of patients from Asmed prior to my first procedure and I am still in touch with many of them. All of whom are happy with their results. Most of us like Jean, Yaz and myself that go back for a second pass are doing so because we are looking to turn a great result into an exceptional one. Your ignorance to this fact is your downfall. I'm not saying you have had a good result but you were unhappy with your result before you'd even stepped out of the clinic. You still have in my opinion months left for your results to improve. If I was you I would have worked with the clinic to a resolution rather than tried to hang them out to dry. I've spent more time than most on here with Dr Koray and with the team at Asmed and I can only implore their approach and methods. 


First Transplant: 5000 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, December 2016

 

First Hair Transplant link: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185564-5000-grafts-fue-13th-14th-december-asmed-dr-erdogan.html

 

 

Hair loss regime

 

Propecia 1mg daily

Saw Palmetto 450mg daily

Biotin 1000ug daily

MSM 1500mg daily

Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000mg daily

1% Nizoral shampoo weekly

Lasercomb x 3 weekly

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8 hours ago, HT0416 said:

if Asmed was so great why we not seeing any solid results being posted, that says it all really. instead we have people who have gone back to Asmed for multiple procedures because they were unsatisfied first time round trying to tell us how nice the clinic is without backing up their claims. we are not fooled anymore with you BS. show us some new solid results.

jjsrader explained it perfectly not sure how that even comes across as racism. in turkey secondary school is not required. Turkey is still a third well country think people forget that. 

Dr Erdogan is no where near the elite level for hair transplants and i think these forums try to say he is.

Get the basics right, start producing natural results.....No one will be complaining. Instead they are taking peoples money and botching them up with these fake looking hairlines. 

 

Do you think my hairline looks fake? Pictures above on this page of the thread 

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1 hour ago, Der3k7 said:

Do you think my hairline looks fake? Pictures above on this page of the thread 

In no way does your hairline look fake, it looks perfect for your head. Although it can't really be judged from that early on. It is true that a lot of bad to subpar results seem fine from the get go right after the surgery. Poor growth and multi grafts that weren't noticeable at that stage make all the difference later on. Well i also consider HT's results to be pretty clean, although i understand what he means when he says it is unnatural. I just don't agree to that extent. He is pretty angry and furious in this thread too, which diminishes his credibility. 

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3 hours ago, DEB1982 said:

I was lucky! I spent months reviewing clinics and their cases before I committed to a Doctor. Any patient would request the same team of technicians as they understand my background. In all honestly I was told they assign you the same technicians anyway for that reason. I spoke to dozens of patients from Asmed prior to my first procedure and I am still in touch with many of them. All of whom are happy with their results. Most of us like Jean, Yaz and myself that go back for a second pass are doing so because we are looking to turn a great result into an exceptional one. Your ignorance to this fact is your downfall. I'm not saying you have had a good result but you were unhappy with your result before you'd even stepped out of the clinic. You still have in my opinion months left for your results to improve. If I was you I would have worked with the clinic to a resolution rather than tried to hang them out to dry. I've spent more time than most on here with Dr Koray and with the team at Asmed and I can only implore their approach and methods. 

Honestly bro you seen like a really nice guy and you've been very civil in your responses so i don't want to cause offense, but try to see it from mine and other guys with subpar results perspective. You have some serious selection bias mentioning some of the better results, what about me, webhandler, rwethereyet, balderboulder, planetstephen? And those are just the recent unacceptable results, I'm not mentioning the sub par ones. I was unhappy about their methods yes because I was deceived into thinking I was getting a personal experience, they should have a disclaimer on their site saying they have multiple patients in parallel and erdogan only pops in for the incisions, the rest of the surgery he "monitors" on some grainy CCTV feed from his throne room.. seriously it's absurd people are giving him a free pass on this.

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Erdogan should no longer be recommended on this site imo.

Uses  too many grafts & it is a lottery whether you will get a good team or not.

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it comes down to this... how involved is Erdogan in the X amount of procedures he does per day?

 

If he does 2 a day, is he splitting his time equally between the 2 and devoting his full day between these 2? or is he only spending 30 minutes on each?

 

If he does 6 a day, same scenario goes as above. 

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1 hour ago, Payam said:

Honestly bro you seen like a really nice guy and you've been very civil in your responses so i don't want to cause offense, but try to see it from mine and other guys with subpar results perspective. You have some serious selection bias mentioning some of the better results, what about me, webhandler, rwethereyet, balderboulder, planetstephen? And those are just the recent unacceptable results, I'm not mentioning the sub par ones. I was unhappy about their methods yes because I was deceived into thinking I was getting a personal experience, they should have a disclaimer on their site saying they have multiple patients in parallel and erdogan only pops in for the incisions, the rest of the surgery he "monitors" on some grainy CCTV feed from his throne room.. seriously it's absurd people are giving him a free pass on this.

I'm not here to argue or fall out with anyone. At the end of the day everyone on here wants the OP of any thread to be able to share a positive journey and produce excellent results. You say I have bias but look at all the other positive reviews from the past year as well; GrantLeeBuffalo, Timetodecide, Shuriken, Jammerz, Hairdew, Bandersnatch. I could go on. All I'm saying is that if they are doing multiple procedures everyday and there are only a couple of negative cases then it's not a situation that Asmed are suddenly producing sub par results. Even in all of the cases you state, it was a case of density issues rather than bad workmanship. The reasons for these results could be nothing to do with the clinic. No results are ever guaranteed. I can assure you though as with planetstephen that if you communicate with them that they will do all they can to assist you.

I did have a very personal experience. Not always with Dr Koray but with Sema, my technicians, everyone I met. If somebody wants a Dr led procedure from start to finish then fair enough but Asmed have never tried to hide the fact that this isn't what they offer. You only had to read some reviews to realise that extractions and implantation is done by technicians. Or that there are multiple surgeries every day. 

I'm going to stop commenting as at the end of the day you have a right to feel however you want to feel. I just think you'd be better served by trying to be proactive about this rather than condemning Asmed. As I have already said your own result will still improve as well over the coming months. 


First Transplant: 5000 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, December 2016

 

First Hair Transplant link: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185564-5000-grafts-fue-13th-14th-december-asmed-dr-erdogan.html

 

 

Hair loss regime

 

Propecia 1mg daily

Saw Palmetto 450mg daily

Biotin 1000ug daily

MSM 1500mg daily

Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000mg daily

1% Nizoral shampoo weekly

Lasercomb x 3 weekly

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3 hours ago, Der3k7 said:

Do you think my hairline looks fake? Pictures above on this page of the thread 

So far it looks one of the better ones, but early days. Like i said in previous posts its hard to tell looking at a low quality camera picture unless its in high definition as it soften what the hair actually looks like to what it does in person.

If hair angles start growing in the wrong direction, with the hairline you have gone with it might not turn out as good.

happy growing!!!! 6 months you should have idea of hairline shape, 12 months density, 18 months hair matured.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, DEB1982 said:

I'm not here to argue or fall out with anyone. At the end of the day everyone on here wants the OP of any thread to be able to share a positive journey and produce excellent results. You say I have bias but look at all the other positive reviews from the past year as well; GrantLeeBuffalo, Timetodecide, Shuriken, Jammerz, Hairdew, Bandersnatch. I could go on. All I'm saying is that if they are doing multiple procedures everyday and there are only a couple of negative cases then it's not a situation that Asmed are suddenly producing sub par results. Even in all of the cases you state, it was a case of density issues rather than bad workmanship. The reasons for these results could be nothing to do with the clinic. No results are ever guaranteed. I can assure you though as with planetstephen that if you communicate with them that they will do all they can to assist you.

I did have a very personal experience. Not always with Dr Koray but with Sema, my technicians, everyone I met. If somebody wants a Dr led procedure from start to finish then fair enough but Asmed have never tried to hide the fact that this isn't what they offer. You only had to read some reviews to realise that extractions and implantation is done by technicians. Or that there are multiple surgeries every day. 

I'm going to stop commenting as at the end of the day you have a right to feel however you want to feel. I just think you'd be better served by trying to be proactive about this rather than condemning Asmed. As I have already said your own result will still improve as well over the coming months. 

Come on man, timetodecide is absolutely not a good result for the number of grafts used, I would add him to my list of sub par Asmed results for sure. Shurikens is better but still questionable as he complained about density himself and wants a second pass and he is also yet to reveal his hairline, for 3000 grafts in that area and with his hair calibre he shouldn't have had to worry about another transplant for several years. Poor Hairdew got necrosis at Asmed and had to be repaired, really not very good examples.

In any case, my point isn't that Asmed doesn't produce great results because they do, depending on the tech team and Erdogans level of involvement that day. I mean my techs were singing to turkish pop music and joking and laughing like schoolgirls, not acting like medical professionals performing surgery, what the hell? I mean I don't know what they were gossiping about but it sure as all fuck wasn't related to the task at hand. Imagine two people doing surgery on you while having a lively discussion about which episode of Seinfeld was their favourite.

Edited by Payam

 

 

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Payam, 

While it’s understandable you’re not happy with your result. You’re entitled to feel that way. It’s uncalled for to start calling out other members who may be happy with their results. Frankly, this thread is about your results, I suggest we stay on topic and discuss your results and not someone else’s. Moreover, I suggest posting some pictures of your results in several different angles and lighting, so we can appropriately gauge your results. There have been pages and pages of posts with no update.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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Dr. Erdogan's Response:

"In response to your e-mail, I have complied the following details regarding our philosophy and procedures at Asmed in light of our mutual respect and collaboration over the years. Please feel free to share any part of this letter or all of it as you deem appropriate without altering its sense. 

 

As the Medical Director of the Asmed Surgical Medical Center, I am proud to announce the opening of our new clinic in Istanbul, Turkey and am pleased to be able to offer our patients the latest in state-of-the art equipment, facilities and patient services along with an enhanced team of surgeons that are trained in hair restoration surgery as well as the complementary fields of dermatology and surgical anatomy. Our new hair restoration surgeons are professor Alp Bayramoglu, M.D., Phd and Mehmet Goker, M.D. 

 

As the largest hair restoration clinic in the world, our aim has always been to render the maximum in quality, comfort and results to our patients when determining operational procedure and policy-making. In all fields of medicine, there is always a choice to be made that renders the outcome of the procedure or treatment the most positive for the patient, and this is the choice that the physician follows.  It is also the reason that we have decided to enrich the patient outcome and experience with additional expert surgeons and a new facility with advanced precision equipment that gives us with all the tools needed to provide the patient with a positive experience.

 

As Medical Director of the Asmed Surgical Medical Center and operating within the laws and procedural policies outlined by the Turkish Health Ministry for the role of surgical assistants in surgical procedures, I have determined that the team approach is best suited to the field of hair restoration.

 

At Asmed we select specific surgical teams for each patient based on the technical difficulty of the procedure and on the patient’s individual characteristics, thus customizing the surgical experience for each patient with an ideal match. Each surgical team is composed of one of the three expert surgeons on staff, an anesthesiologist and five licensed surgical assistants who have a minimum of 5 years of experience in the hair restoration field for those performing extractions and a minimum of 3 years for those performing placements. Additionally, all surgical assistants are required to perform 10,000 extractions and placements on the KE-Head, a life-like model prior to performing either on a live patient where they begun with 50 grafts and gradually increase according to their performance.

 

Even before surgery begins, the surgeon’s role is extensive and includes the evaluation of the patient’s donor area to establish the miniaturization ratio and DUPA, density, calculated density, the caliber of the hair and donor capacity.  Subsequently, the surgeon determines the number of grafts per square centimeter required for the procedure followed by a graft distribution plan and other recipient area calculations. Finally, Coverage Value calculations are made to ensure the precision of the surgical plan and proper homogenization. The surgeon’s calculations are verified both manually and through the use of the KE-BOT, a robot that scans the entire scalp’s surface in detail for the accuracy of the data.  The surgeon finally establishes the frontline design in conjunction with the patient’s goals and desires.

 

Once surgery has commenced, properly trained and licensed surgical assistants begin extractions according to the surgeon’s extraction plan. The surgical assistants, with the support of a stereoscopic microscope, are also responsible for the quality control of the grafts, the selection of single hair grafts for the frontline and temples and graft cleaning. Additionally, they are responsible for controlling the hair per graft average and documenting the speed of the extractions, both with the use of the Graft Calculator application.

 

In the successive phase of surgery, one of the surgeons performs incisions before placing begins by the surgical assistants who are entrusted with executing the surgeons placing plan, regulating the proper graft depth control and determining the K.E.E.P. (Koray Erdogan Embedding Placer) caliber and type (left or right). Typically, I perform incisions for a maximum of 6 surgeries per day as I have always done, while the other staff surgeons perform incisions for additional surgeries on mostly Turkish patients. 

 

The surgeon oversees the team throughout the procedure and makes adjustments to the surgical plan if required. Post-operatively, the team surgeon is responsible for all monitoring.

 

Hair restoration procedures are long and tedious, and as a result, concentration and accuracy can be affected by fatigue and strain. It is for this reason that I consider a well-selected surgical team to be the perfect model for hair restoration surgical procedures. The results are self-evident both for the patient and for the team. Delegated responsibilities provide optimum surgical outcomes for the patient and relaxed attentive team members whose precision is top notch. I have been using this model without alteration since 2003 and the results have been documented. 

 

The new clinic has not changed us, it has just changed what we can offer the patient...positive results with the utmost care, comfort, precision and artistry.

 

All my best wishes for a successful New Year!

 

Koray Erdogan, MD"

 

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I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

My Hair Transplant Journey

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @thehairtransplantnetwork FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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Posted (edited)

I've tried to hold my tongue on this thread, as it seems to have devolved into a hysterical, hand-wringing, anti-Erdogan frenzy that I didn't want to indulge.  However, the claims on here that no one has gotten good results out of ASMED recently are flat out dishonest.  While I didn't originally want to name names, I felt I needed to do so in order to make a credible point to those who are lurking here (including newbies) who may be influenced by what's been said, about the clear distortions that have been made on this thread. 

For great results from ASMED in this forum from surgeries that were performed since the end of 2016 (i.e., no touchup was necessary, whether or not the individual decided to take another pass anyway), look at Alexmczane26575, DEB1982, JeanLDD, Jammerz, Vchorro, Sk78, Artofeden, HG1, Vainism, and Ediee.  For good results since the end of 2016 (i.e., there was a major cosmedic improvement the first time around but a minor touchup was needed to achieve a perfect result), see Jonyny (who says he is happy now), Pancake, Shuriken, Nathd911, HairDew (who specifically says he is very happy with his hair), Bloodshoteyes, Handski, Ponchik, Scotty9107, Hamburger, and JustJax.  Only five people -- you, Webhandler, Planetstephen, Boulderbalder, and Rwethereyet, showed results that could be considered "mediocre" (i.e., they need another procedure of comparable magnitude to the first to achieve the optimal result, by their own account).  I did not include HT0416 because his surgery was over two years ago (in other words, outside the timeframe in contention).  That means, in this forum alone, and at the time I did my analysis in the beginning of December, there were 10 great results since the end of 2016, 11 good results, and 5 that were "mediocre."  So let's do the math here....21/26 = 81% good or great and 5/26 = 19% that were mediocre.  None were poor (poor being defined as the hair looking the same or worse than it did before surgery).  For a good example of what "poor" looks like, see Sanjar41 and Sufferer12, who went to a clinic in Colorado and had truly awful results, by their own account.  When combining results from the French and Italian forums with those of this forum, the results were essentially the same -- 48% great, 33% good, 19% mediocre, and 0% poor (so, doing the math, 81% good to great) -- but with a much larger and more statistically significant sample size.   

In this forum, it also looks like grantleebuffalo and cali101 will soon be in one of the top two tiers (although I had initially rated them as inconclusive, as their procedures were 5 months ago or less when I did my analysis); we can also add Panos1982 to the ranks of "great" as well.  I hadn't included Panos in my initial analysis since his post was put up afterwards.  

I understand you're upset, as the numbers above would be of no solace to someone who is in the unfortunate minority.  However, you clearly are in a very vocal minority of dissatisfied patients.  Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that the clinic reached out to those that were dissatisfied to try to help those patients.  Planetstephen is going back for a touch-up this month.  HT0416 was offered a repair but declined.  You have openly stated you won't go back there, and you're not even at 10 months post-op (when everyone repeatedly told you you need to wait 12-18 months), so what exactly do you expect from them?  The clinic says they offer a 90% regrowth guarantee, which means you wouldn't pay a cent if you got a yield lower than that.     

As far as the technicians are concerned, you make a lot of assumptions about their level of experience and the idea that it was their involvement that led to your mediocre results.  You have no idea what caused your results.  Your fever on the first night may have been your body rejecting your grafts, for all you know, but you chose to assume that it was the technicians' fault.  You have no evidence of this.  

You make several claims that you were misled about the surgeon's degree of participation in the surgery.  Nowhere on the ASMED website, or anywhere else, does Dr. Erdogan claim to carry out the entire procedure himself.  Once again, you made an assumption which could have been easily clarified with simple research or questions posed to your coordinator.  I asked my coordinator these questions prior to my surgery and she explained every aspect of the process to me, in detail.  You weren't mislead....you just didn't ask questions and made unsafe assumptions about what the experience would be like.

Finally, with respect to HT0416's hairline shape....buddy, you really need to take some responsibility for this.  Why didn't you ask Dr. Erdogan to change the hairline before surgery began if you didn't like it?  I asked the doctor like 3 different times to modify my hairline before I gave them the go-ahead to proceed, and he was happy to make the adjustments for me each time.  You are responsible for taking an active role in your own hairline design.  Don't just leave it up to the doctor to make that determination and then whine about it later, when you had ample opportunity to make a change.

Edited by LordBaldwin
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33 minutes ago, LordBaldwin said:

I've tried to hold my tongue on this thread, as it seems to have devolved into a hysterical, hand-wringing, anti-Erdogan frenzy that I didn't want to indulge.  However, the claims on here that no one has gotten good results out of ASMED recently are flat out dishonest.  While I didn't originally want to name names, I felt I needed to do so in order to make a credible point to those who are lurking here (including newbies) who may be influenced by what's been said, about the clear distortions that have been made on this thread. 

For great results from ASMED in this forum from surgeries that were performed since the end of 2016 (i.e., no touchup was necessary, whether or not the individual decided to take another pass anyway), look at Alexmczane26575, DEB1982, JeanLDD, Jammerz, Vchorro, Sk78, Artofeden, HG1, Vainism, and Ediee.  For good results since the end of 2016 (i.e., there was a major cosmedic improvement the first time around but a minor touchup was needed to achieve a perfect result), see Jonyny (who says he is happy now), Pancake, Shuriken, Nathd911, HairDew (who specifically says he is very happy with his hair), Bloodshoteyes, Handski, Ponchik, Scotty9107, Hamburger, and JustJax.  Only five people -- you, Webhandler, Planetstephen, Boulderbalder, and Rwethereyet, showed results that could be considered "mediocre" (i.e., they need another procedure of comparable magnitude to the first to achieve the optimal result, by their own account).  I did not include HT0416 because his surgery was over two years ago (in other words, outside the timeframe in contention).  That means, in this forum alone, and at the time I did my analysis in the beginning of December, there were 10 great results since the end of 2016, 11 good results, and 5 that were "mediocre."  So let's do the math here....21/26 = 81% good or great and 5/26 = 19% that were mediocre.  None were poor (poor being defined as the hair looking the same or worse than it did before surgery).  For a good example of what "poor" looks like, see Sanjar41 and Sufferer12, who went to a clinic in Colorado and had truly awful results, by their own account.  When combining results from the French and Italian forums with those of this forum, the results were essentially the same -- 48% great, 33% good, 19% mediocre, and 0% poor (so, doing the math, 81% good to great) -- but with a much larger and more statistically significant sample size.   

In this forum, it also looks like grantleebuffalo and cali101 will soon be in one of the top two tiers (although I had initially rated them as inconclusive, as their procedures were 5 months ago or less when I did my analysis); we can also add Panos1982 to the ranks of "great" as well.  I hadn't included Panos in my initial analysis since his post was put up afterwards.  

I understand you're upset, as the numbers above would be of no solace to someone who is in the unfortunate minority.  However, you clearly are in a very vocal minority of dissatisfied patients.  Furthermore, there is plenty of evidence that the clinic reached out to those that were dissatisfied to try to help those patients.  Planetstephen is going back for a touch-up this month.  HT0416 was offered a repair but declined.  You have openly stated you won't go back there, and you're not even at 10 months post-op (when everyone repeatedly told you you need to wait 12-18 months), so what exactly do you expect from them?  The clinic says they offer a 90% regrowth guarantee, which means you wouldn't pay a cent if you got a yield lower than that.     

As far as the technicians are concerned, you make a lot of assumptions about their level of experience and the idea that it was their involvement that led to your mediocre results.  You have no idea what caused your results.  Your fever on the first night may have been your body rejecting your grafts, for all you know, but you chose to assume that it was the technicians' fault.  You have no evidence of this.  

You make several claims that you were misled about the surgeon's degree of participation in the surgery.  Nowhere on the ASMED website, or anywhere else, does Dr. Erdogan claim to carry out the entire procedure himself.  Once again, you made an assumption which could have been easily clarified with simple research or questions posed to your coordinator.  I asked my coordinator these questions prior to my surgery and she explained every aspect of the process to me, in detail.  You weren't mislead....you just didn't ask questions and made unsafe assumptions about what the experience would be like.

Finally, with respect to HT0416's hairline shape....buddy, you really need to take some responsibility for this.  Why didn't you ask Dr. Erdogan to change the hairline before surgery began if you didn't like it?  I asked the doctor like 3 different times to modify my hairline before I gave them the go-ahead to proceed, and he was happy to make the adjustments for me each time.  You are responsible for taking an active role in your own hairline design.  Don't just leave it up to the doctor to make that determination and then whine about it later, when you had ample opportunity to make a change.

How can you not see your own obvious biases.. Does a 20% failure rate seem acceptable to anyone else? And why are you going back 3 years? Why don't you move the start time to 18 months back as it is only relevant to look at recent results and get back to me on those statistics. It really comes down to what you consider a bad result as well, for me an unnatural looking transplant (I.e low density or pluggy due to multigrafts) is by definition a failure, you could easily argue that for patient posted results his failure rate is even larger than 25% when looking at recent results alone, one in five is terrible, one in four is absolutely unacceptable.

"Your body rejecting the grafts", honestly hard to take you seriously here mate, I'm taking the straightest and most logical path to my conclusions but sure, maybe tiny elves stole my grafts during the night as well.

And how on earth did you manage to blame HT0416 for the hairline design? Who in their right mind would overrule the decision of a trained professional with thousands of surgeries and years of experience under his belt? 


 

 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Payam said:

How can you not see your own obvious biases.. Does a 20% failure rate seem acceptable to anyone else? And why are you going back 3 years? Why don't you move the start time to 18 months back as it is only relevant to look at recent results and get back to me on those statistics. It really comes down to what you consider a bad result as well, for me an unnatural looking transplant (I.e low density or pluggy due to multigrafts) is by definition a failure, you could easily argue that for patient posted results his failure rate is even larger than 25% when looking at recent results alone, one in five is terrible, one in four is absolutely unacceptable.

"Your body rejecting the grafts", honestly hard to take you seriously here mate, I'm taking the straightest and most logical path to my conclusions but sure, maybe tiny elves stole my grafts during the night as well.

And how on earth did you manage to blame HT0416 for the hairline design? Who in their right mind would overrule the decision of a trained professional with thousands of surgeries and years of experience under his belt? 

Do you seriously think any surgeon has 100% great results?  This is delusional and clearly not the case.  No surgeon on earth has a 100% success rate, no matter how skilled they are.  Also, a mediocre result isn't a "failure," nor is it a success.  It's partial progress on a hair restoration journey.  Is it the desirable outcome?  Of course not, but you keep throwing around the word "failure" like you had Sanjar41's result.  

Some people don't assimilate their grafts properly.  It's a medical fact.  That being said, my point was only that you were drawing conclusions without any supporting evidence.  You don't know that it was because of the technicians; it could have been one or several of any number of factors, including your own physiological response.  To compare this, flippantly, to elves stealing your grafts is ridiculous.

Regarding the hairline, it is your hair on your head.  Therefore, you always have a say.  It isn't about "overruling a decision;" it's about working with the doctor to produce a shape that you like, since you're ultimately the one who needs to be happy with it.

Also, where are you getting 25% failure from?  You just made that number up.

Edited by LordBaldwin
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14 minutes ago, LordBaldwin said:

Do you seriously think any surgeon has 100% great results?  This is delusional and clearly not the case.  No surgeon on earth has a 100% success rate, no matter how skilled they are.  Also, a mediocre result isn't a "failure," nor is it a success.  It's partial progress on a hair restoration journey.  Is it the desirable outcome?  Of course not, but you keep throwing around the word "failure" like you had Sanjar41's result.  

Some people don't assimilate their grafts properly.  It's a medical fact.  That being said, my point was only that you were drawing conclusions without any supporting evidence.  You don't know that it was because of the technicians; it could have been one or several of any number of factors, including your own physiological response.  To compare this, flippantly, to elves stealing your grafts is ridiculous.

Regarding the hairline, it is your hair on your head.  Therefore, you always have a say.  It isn't about "overruling a decision;" it's about working with the doctor to produce a shape that you like, since you're ultimately the one who needs to be happy with it.

Also, where are you getting 25% failure from?  You just made that number up.

Did you read my post? I said you could argue depending on where you begin to look from and what results you consider poor that his failure rate is even as high as 25%.

I'm not pulling facts from thin air here, you can go ahead and ask any top tier surgeon what usually causes poor results, ask Dr Lindsey who specializes in repair cases, or anyone else really, in fact many realself threads have surgeons giving answers saying the same thing over and again, graft mishandling or poor extraction. 

Again it's laughable that you can blame the patient for not seeing how bad a hairline will eventually look from a marker outline on their bald heads.


 

 

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