Senior Member Mick50 Posted January 5, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 5, 2019 (edited) In an ideal world everyone would do their due diligence etc before having a hair transplant but they don't ,most guys who opt for a hair transplant don't come onto this website and they are at the mercy of how economical a clinic is with the truth and how they choose to present themselves on their websites etc . Asmed in my opinion are no more guilty of misrepresenting themselves than most other top tier clinics in the states etc , not going to even go there with UK clinics, shower of sharks with 2 or 3 notable exceptions .Take for example a top New York clinic who are recommended on this site ,the well know Doc decides to bring in a partner with limited experience and put his name along side his on the website , someone who has done no research will presume that both Docs have similar experience and case histories to present etc ,to add insult to injury the original Doc who has built up his reputation over the last 20 years or so from what can be gathered doesn't even perform surgeries anymore ,talk about being economical with the truth ,a classic example. I will add the junior Doc who partnered up with the more experienced Doc seems to be a talented and decent chap I even voted for him when he was up for recommendation, but at that stage I thought the more experienced Doc would also be doing surgeries as well not retiring to making model aeroplanes or whatever he gets up to . I personally think Dr Erdogan should publicly address the concerns/issues people have , but as I've said before on this thread I haven't seen anyone been butchered maybe a few below par results but all clinics have them , if I am honest I really don't think all techs are created equal no matter how good the training is ,but as long as people are aware that the clinic can do up to 6 surgeries a day they can then decide if it's for them or maybe go to a more bespoke clinic where there is more Doc involvement . Edited January 5, 2019 by Mick50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payam Posted January 5, 2019 Author Share Posted January 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Mick50 said: In an ideal world everyone would do their due diligence etc before having a hair transplant but they don't ,most guys who opt for a hair transplant don't come onto this website and they are at the mercy of how economical a clinic is with the truth and how they choose to present themselves on their websites etc . Asmed in my opinion are no more guilty of misrepresenting themselves than most other top tier clinics in the states etc , not going to even go there with UK clinics, shower of sharks with 2 or 3 notable exceptions .Take for example a top New York clinic who are recommended on this site ,the well know Doc decides to bring in a partner with limited experience and put his name along side his on the website , someone who has done no research will presume that both Docs have similar experience and case histories to present etc ,to add insult to injury the original Doc who has built up his reputation over the last 20 years or so from what can be gathered doesn't even perform surgeries anymore ,talk about being economical with the truth ,a classic example. I will add the junior Doc who partnered up with the more experienced Doc seems to be a talented and decent chap I even voted for him when he was up for recommendation, but at that stage I thought the more experienced Doc would also be doing surgeries as well not retiring to making model aeroplanes or whatever he gets up to . I personally think Dr Erdogan should publicly address the concerns/issues people have , but as I've said before on this thread I haven't seen anyone been butchered maybe a few below par results but all clinics have them , if I am honest I really don't think all techs are created equal no matter how good the training is ,but as long as people are aware that the clinic can do up to 6 surgeries a day they can then decide if it's for them or maybe go to a more bespoke clinic where there is more Doc involvement . This is the problem right here, as people are NOT aware of the multiple surgeries unless they scour the forums, I went into this thinking Asmed offered a premium service and instead I was hoisted onto the conveyor belt at Asmed's FUE Factory where everything was rushed and impersonal. How can anyone think a setup like Asmed will ever retain the finesse and artistry required to make for a natural and undetectable hair transplant? And now they have upped the number of surgeries even more, it's all very unethical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member jjsrader Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) H&W Asian techs are MILES ahead of Erdogan's techs - it's not even close. 1) Better intelligence & hand-eye coordination 2) Longer/better more experienced training. 3) I am sure the average age of H&W techs is older and I am 100% sure that the vast majority of hair techs employed by H&W have some medical background (Nurse, etc...) 4) I guarantee H&W techs interact real-time and in so much better granular detail with each doctor. 5) Finally, H&W took some of Erdogan's best of the best initial talent - had their techs interact and now H&W FUE is top 5 in the world. Simple as. -------------------- Erdogan's approach now is ludicrous. Mr. 50K gross per day and he chills in his 9 monitor room 75% of his day. Have you noticed how he dis-engaged from the forums? He'll take the hits here and expand his marketing (don't get me started on his marketing youtube videos from years ago) and hire more 20 year-old Turkish girls w/no medical background and limited training and keep ballin'~~ Some shameful ethics imho. It's a money grab now and he is looking to optimize his profit model w/the least amount of personal involvement as possible. It's a factory w/average results - and I suspect a lower-than FUE survival rate than top-tier FUE surgeons. Oh, the techs who are supposedly examining each graft under a microscope probably aren't even doing that 100% of the time or correctly. Finally, although I believe Erdogan's incision reception sites are angled properly, those techs are just banging those grafts in there as fast as they can while they laugh and listen to music and gossip among themselves in a foreign language. It's a shame. Had he stayed intimately involved in 1 surgery per day, used his most experienced techs (2 or 3) that are the best of the best and he had a bit more artistic approach to hairlines - this guy could be charging $4-6 USD per graft or maybe even more and not have to be a factory. Turkey really is a moneygrab for 99% of the surgeons there. Erdogan is building up his wealth quickly once he saw he could automate his earlier work. That, to me for a physician, is laugable. Edited January 6, 2019 by jjsrader 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 6, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 6, 2019 Guys, This conversation has gotten ridiculous. The comments of some technicians being of a certain ethnicity, older and having higher intelligence is ludicrous. I don’t see why race or ethnic backgrounds are even being brought up, but discussions like these are not tolerated on this forum. I have e-mailed Dr. Erdogan, to respond to the allegations made in this thread. Until then, I suggest we keep this conversation strictly about hair transplants and not ethnic backgrounds. 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member kw877 Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 I remember researching a long while back and it was considered bad practice to have more than 2 small/medium cases per day. Now 6 patients per day with each receiving up to 3000 grafts is considered fine? At what point does it become a money grab/mill? Genuine question without trying to be inflammatory. I don’t think it’s feasible to for one doctor to monitor even 3 cases of that size per day, let alone twice that. I know techs do a lot of work but I think they should be nothing more than assistants to a Dr doing the work. Now it’s normal for the techs to do 99% of the work whilst you still pay Dr prices. I think the main question is, if you genuinely care about patients and want them to have the best result, do you think it’s better to take less cases and spend more time and involvement with each patient rather than taking 6 per day? If not, it would suggest that maximizing profit/money is more important. There’s literally no other reason to take on so many patients per day other than to make as much money as possible. That is not in the interest of patients whose results are obviously going to suffer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT0416 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Who have i been messaging saying not to go to Asmed? Another false accusation Jean. Hows Hair Transplant 2 coming along not seen an update in awhile? I counted 9 operating rooms, maybe some of Erdogans staff have passed level 2 training and now do incisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Gasthoerer Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 Jesus, what is going on here? This is the second time (at least the second time I read it) someone is making racist comments on Turkish people in this forum. This is really crazy and has nth to do with HT or ASMED. Thanks, for stepping in Melvin, but in my opinion there have to be consequences. On top: How can we expect Erdogan to answer publicly I such an hostile and racist environment? 400+ grafts in 2018 and 2900 grafts in 2020 via FUE with Feriduni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payam Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Gasthoerer said: Jesus, what is going on here? This is the second time (at least the second time I read it) someone is making racist comments on Turkish people in this forum. This is really crazy and has nth to do with HT or ASMED. Thanks, for stepping in Melvin, but in my opinion there have to be consequences. On top: How can we expect Erdogan to answer publicly I such an hostile and racist environment? Sorry but what comments? I don't see anyone writing anything disparaging about turkish people anywhere? Can you link these comments to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Gasthoerer Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Payam said: Sorry but what comments? I don't see anyone writing anything disparaging about turkish people anywhere? Can you link these comments to me? Come on, do pretend to be stupid Just read the first sentence of jj latest post. Even melvin has already answered it. 400+ grafts in 2018 and 2900 grafts in 2020 via FUE with Feriduni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Payam Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 53 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said: Come on, do pretend to be stupid Just read the first sentence of jj latest post. Even melvin has already answered it. Stop this nonsense man he wasn't being racist. He emphasized that H&W employs asian techs but said nothing disparaging about turkish people, only that H&W has superior techs because they have medical backgrounds. There is no racism here and this coming from someone with middle eastern ethnicity. The point about intelligence is clearly about their graft handling intelligence, at least that is how I interpreted it. His post made very valid points though, Erdogan employs very young girls with no medical background and isn't there to supervise them during extractions or implantation, you can email him yourself and they will refuse to disclose any information about their techs academic backgrounds, and for good reason. If he was more involved in the process I'm sure we would see more natural results coming out this clinic, right now I'm not at all surprised about the state of my hair all things considered. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member DEB1982 Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 14 minutes ago, Payam said: Stop this nonsense man he wasn't being racist. He emphasized that H&W employs asian techs but said nothing disparaging about turkish people, only that H&W has superior techs because they have medical backgrounds. There is no racism here and this coming from someone with middle eastern ethnicity. The point about intelligence is clearly about their graft handling intelligence, at least that is how I interpreted it. His post made very valid points though, Erdogan employs very young girls with no medical background and isn't there to supervise them during extractions or implantation, you can email him yourself and they will refuse to disclose any information about their techs academic backgrounds, and for good reason. If he was more involved in the process I'm sure we would see more natural results coming out this clinic, right now I'm not at all surprised about the state of my hair all things considered. Those same techs provided an outstanding result for myself. Point being that because you are unhappy with your result doesn’t mean that his model doesn’t work. It just hasn’t worked for yourself. You are making a lot of assumptions which is why it would be best to wait and hear what Dr Erdogan has to say on the matter himself. There is also Dilek who many of you are forgetting. She is a partner at Asmed and has been with Dr Erdogan since the beginning. She is also constantly on hand and on both of my surgeries she was in to check on me and also made a small number of incisions when I had surplus grafts. Your post implies there are many bad cases coming out of Asmed but this isn’t so. There are a couple on here who are unhappy and if there are multiple procedures every day then they must still be doing something right. First Transplant: 5000 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, December 2016 First Hair Transplant link: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185564-5000-grafts-fue-13th-14th-december-asmed-dr-erdogan.html Hair loss regime Propecia 1mg daily Saw Palmetto 450mg daily Biotin 1000ug daily MSM 1500mg daily Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000mg daily 1% Nizoral shampoo weekly Lasercomb x 3 weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT0416 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 1 hour ago, DEB1982 said: There is also Dilek who many of you are forgetting. She is a partner at Asmed and has been with Dr Erdogan since the beginning. She is also constantly on hand and on both of my surgeries she was in to check on me and also made a small number of incisions when I had surplus grafts. This is why i am not going back. Dr Erdogan is now getting his techs to cut open patients skin to do small job incisions. Surplus grafts or not this is not right. Treating patients like guinea pigs so his staff get the practice. No one even knows whats qualifications the techs have, for all we know techs could just have the Dr Erdogan nod after a weeks worth of training. 1 hour ago, DEB1982 said: Your post implies there are many bad cases coming out of Asmed but this isn’t so. There are a couple on here who are unhappy and if there are multiple procedures every day then they must still be doing something right. I think you find you were unhappy with density thats why you went back for a second transplant. Nearly every thread has a problem with either the hairline, density or multi hair grafts. Alot of people say nothing and go back and get the repair/touch up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member DEB1982 Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 29 minutes ago, HT0416 said: This is why i am not going back. Dr Erdogan is now getting his techs to cut open patients skin to do small job incisions. Surplus grafts or not this is not right. Treating patients like guinea pigs so his staff get the practice. No one even knows whats qualifications the techs have, for all we know techs could just have the Dr Erdogan nod after a weeks worth of training. I think you find you were unhappy with density thats why you went back for a second transplant. Nearly every thread has a problem with either the hairline, density or multi hair grafts. Alot of people say nothing and go back and get the repair/touch up You are changing what I’ve said to suit your own agenda and to that effect there is no point me continuing commenting on this thread. Just to be certain for anyone else reading. Dilek is not a technician and no technicians make incisions. Dr Erdogan certainly wouldn’t treat his patients like guinea pigs either. I’ve spent time speaking to him and he has the best interest of every patient at heart. As for my own results, I was never unhappy with the density. You are wrong with that statement. I was realistic with my expectations and knew that I would need a second pass before I had the first procedure. Many wouldn’t have had a second pass being in my position as they all commented on here. I chose too. Every patient on here has an issue with density. We all want more of it. If you are anything more than a Norwood 2 than you will always be chasing that one. First Transplant: 5000 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, December 2016 First Hair Transplant link: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185564-5000-grafts-fue-13th-14th-december-asmed-dr-erdogan.html Hair loss regime Propecia 1mg daily Saw Palmetto 450mg daily Biotin 1000ug daily MSM 1500mg daily Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000mg daily 1% Nizoral shampoo weekly Lasercomb x 3 weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HT0416 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Dilek was one of the techs at the time of my surgery. If I remember she did the right side of my frontal which has alot of multi hair grafts and grafts at the wrong angles. Is Dilek now a doctor? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member DEB1982 Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, HT0416 said: Dilek was one of the techs at the time of my surgery. If I remember she did the right side of my frontal which has alot of multi hair grafts and grafts at the wrong angles. Is Dilek now a doctor? You must have had your procedure along time ago then as even at my first procedure two years ago Dilek was not a technician. I am unsure on her title but I know she is a partner of Asmed and has been in the business since it’s creation. Grafts at the wrong angles is all to do with the incisions made anyway so would have nothing to do with any technician. During both my procedures I was continuously told that they were putting single graft in the hair line. First Transplant: 5000 FUE grafts with Dr Koray Erdogan ASMED, December 2016 First Hair Transplant link: http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/185564-5000-grafts-fue-13th-14th-december-asmed-dr-erdogan.html Hair loss regime Propecia 1mg daily Saw Palmetto 450mg daily Biotin 1000ug daily MSM 1500mg daily Pumpkin Seed Oil 1000mg daily 1% Nizoral shampoo weekly Lasercomb x 3 weekly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member jjsrader Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 4 hours ago, Payam said: Stop this nonsense man he wasn't being racist. He emphasized that H&W employs asian techs but said nothing disparaging about turkish people, only that H&W has superior techs because they have medical backgrounds. There is no racism here and this coming from someone with middle eastern ethnicity. The point about intelligence is clearly about their graft handling intelligence, at least that is how I interpreted it. His post made very valid points though, Erdogan employs very young girls with no medical background and isn't there to supervise them during extractions or implantation, you can email him yourself and they will refuse to disclose any information about their techs academic backgrounds, and for good reason. If he was more involved in the process I'm sure we would see more natural results coming out this clinic, right now I'm not at all surprised about the state of my hair all things considered. That was me; you are correct sir! Always remember, physicans are real people too - we are talking about difference in doctor approaches in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Gasthoerer Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, Payam said: Stop this nonsense man he wasn't being racist. Payam, I supported you from the beginning. I also understand that you are not happy and dislike the approach of ASMED. I am also not a fan of the clinic (I like his graft calculation tools and videos though). It is also obvious that there are many much worse results (less growth even with FUT than yours, worse hairlines design than HT's, Cases with wrong angles and multies in the hairline, Cases with extraction at only one side of the donor) by a lot of north American clinics in the very recent past. But they get much less heat than Turkish clinics in this forum. I get it. What I do not get and do not overlook is racism (not this time, not the last time when the word "sheep herder"was used to describe Turkish techs in another thread). This is clearly a racist statement by JJ and if you seriously do not get it, I am happy to rephrase it for you (and JJ) in a PM: 18 hours ago, jjsrader said: H&W Asian techs are MILES ahead of Erdogan's (Turkish /added by me) techs - it's not even close. 1) Better intelligence & hand-eye coordination Melvin, immediately reacted (thank you again) but has just chosen nicer words than me: 14 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said: This conversation has gotten ridiculous. The comments of some technicians being of a certain ethnicity, older and having higher intelligence is ludicrous. I don’t see why race or ethnic backgrounds are even being brought up, but discussions like these are not tolerated on this forum. . Going to turkey and complain about people speaking Turkish (like JJ did) is stupid. Call ASMED techs in general worse than H&W techs is stupid (as some ASMED techs do FUE much longer than H&W and H&W learned FUE from ASMED). Make a generalization and bring race/ethnics into play is not only stupid, it is racist, period. Even though technically most techs of Erdogan would be Asian, but that is another story. How can you guys seriously complain about the way the clinics interacts with you, considering the way you behave in here? Edited January 6, 2019 by Gasthoerer 400+ grafts in 2018 and 2900 grafts in 2020 via FUE with Feriduni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Legend007 Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 When I was at h&w . There was only 2 Asian techs. Majority of them are white Canadians .. n yes I would prefer the techs from cananda over techs from turkey .. the standard is higher in North America. Therefore they have a better education background n training .. n techs at h&w are 5-15 years experience working with them .. it’s like a small family over there .. I used to like Erdogan ,but it’s becoming a fancy state of the art hairmill .. the best hair mill in turkey .. . it comes down to this .. u want to save money and go overseas . Then go for it .. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 6, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 6, 2019 Guys, I’m noticing an alarming trend of making bold statements without proof or facts. Just because a person is older does not automatically make them of higher intelligence or better. The bringing up of ethnic backgrounds isn’t necessary because frankly, it doesn’t matter. Furthermore, we don’t know their medical background so we can’t comment on that. However, I will say this, just because you have a degree that doesn’t automatically make you better at a certain aspect of surgery. Even Hasson and Wong admit that their techs are better at extractions than they are, that’s fair and nothing is wrong with that. At the end of the day I want the most qualified person doing the job regardless of race, gender, age or medical background. 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Der3k7 Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 This is me 1 week post op with erdogan 2 months ago in November 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Legend007 Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 (edited) It’s not the tech background and so forth Or what country they are from .. I prefer cute girls working on me than doctors anyways .. it’s the hairmill aspect of it .. at first it’s someone growing their business .. n now it’s just a total explosion into a hair mill .. and if u comfortable with that then it’s fine .. just know what u getting in to .. they are great at megasessions at a affordable price .. that have a state of the art clinic with top tier tools .. also, I like to point out Erdogans clinic has one of the cleanest extractions .. they can move massive amount of hair and the donor always looks so clean .. Edited January 6, 2019 by Legend007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Der3k7 Posted January 6, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 6, 2019 I think my post op looks great. So unless damage was done to the grafts and they don't end up growing, my result should be really good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted January 6, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 6, 2019 That’s fair, these questions are fair and should be asked. Let’s stay on track though and ask the relevant questions that need answers. What’s the maximum surgeries per day? How are you supervising these surgeries whilst maintaining the quality? How much time are you spending with each patient on average? What are the training certifications or educational background of the techs? These are the relevant questions. 2 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member markymarc123 Posted January 7, 2019 Regular Member Share Posted January 7, 2019 This thread is beyond bizarre... I think everything that could be said has been said..... about 8-9 times. It's just the same thing being re-hashed every monthly update...poor yield, bad techs/good techs, clinics fault/not the clinics fault, choose another doctor... rinse repeat. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member jjsrader Posted January 7, 2019 Senior Member Share Posted January 7, 2019 (edited) I apologize and will let this thread take its long & winding road forward. Okay, delete my post. I'll try and keep my comments objective going forward. ty. peace... Edited January 7, 2019 by jjsrader I overstepped a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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