3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

[Der3k7]

4 hours ago, Payam said:

How this guy still is recommended here is a travesty. There is no other doctor that is this uninvolved in the surgery,  exactly what is he supposed to discern on those screens? No wonder I have so many doubles and triples in the first two rows.. I hope every future Asmed patient reads this thread and realizes exactly what they are paying for.

Because he has so many great results posted over the years I gueaa

[Melvin- Admin]

Guys,

 I will need to clear somethings up with Dr. Erdogan, we need to make sure this is not hearsay. We need to know how many patients he’s performing surgery on a day and how he’s able to supervise those surgeries. To be honest, 7 surgeries seems excessive and I don’t see how one person can supervise all 7.

With that said, we need to allow him to speak on the situation. Ive heard of formal training etc. Dr. Erdogan, has already said everyone of his techs performs surgeries on liifelike dummys for a certain amount of hours before even touching a real life patient. 

[CatsMeow83]

5 minutes ago, Der3k7 said:

Because he has so many great results posted over the years I gueaa

I think this is exactly right.  But . . . given some of the operational changes at the clinic (6 simultaneous surgeries, etc.), I think the guys that run this site really do need to conduct a little more diligence on what's going on at ASMED.  Erdogan is clearly an awesome doctor.  I don't dispute that.  But if he is going to rely so heavily on his technicians, I think the folks running this site need to get a better understanding of what qualifications and standards there are for the technicians that are doing most of the work.  Erdogan could probably address these issues no problem, and get most everyone here comfortable.

Edited January 4, 2019 by CatsMeow83

[CatsMeow83]

4 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Guys,

 I will need to clear somethings up with Dr. Erdogan, we need to make sure this is not hearsay. We need to know how many patients he’s performing surgery on a day and how he’s able to supervise those surgeries. To be honest, 7 surgeries seems excessive and I don’t see how one person can supervise all 7.

With that said, we need to allow him to speak on the situation. Ive heard of formal training etc. Dr. Erdogan, has already said everyone of his techs performs surgeries on liifelike dummys for a certain amount of hours before even touching a real life patient. 

All very good points - our imaginations have probably started to run a little wild in this thread.

[FarsanUk]

3 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Guys,

 I will need to clear somethings up with Dr. Erdogan, we need to make sure this is not hearsay. We need to know how many patients he’s performing surgery on a day and how he’s able to supervise those surgeries. To be honest, 7 surgeries seems excessive and I don’t see how one person can supervise all 7.

With that said, we need to allow him to speak on the situation. Ive heard of formal training etc. Dr. Erdogan, has already said everyone of his techs performs surgeries on liifelike dummys for a certain amount of hours before even touching a real life patient. 

Hi Melvin.

When i went there in October my coordinator told me they do 6 patients a day (although on my first day there wasn't more than 3) this is confirmed this is what they do. Now this was before the new larger clinic was opened with more surgery rooms. IF you scroll up and see the screen shot I took of Asmed's instagram video daily video feed you can see the screens of 9 different operating rooms where 7 were in use. This is not hearsay this is fact and you can see that screen shot. Now does that mean he will produce bad results? Not necessarily but it is a high risk strategy going forwards I will be very intrigued how 2019 will go for them and I would say to anyone considering  Asmed to watch this space, bide your time and see how this approach works before pulling the trigger -that is just common sense. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Well we still need to confirm  with Dr. Erdogan, exactly how many patients have surgery a day. Is it 3,6 or 9, this is very important. In addition, we need to know exactly how he supervises so many surgeries. 

[CatsMeow83]

29 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Well we still need to confirm  with Dr. Erdogan, exactly how many patients have surgery a day. Is it 3,6 or 9, this is very important. In addition, we need to know exactly how he supervises so many surgeries. 

Erdogan is the Ryan Seacrest of the hair transplant world.  Hardest working man in show business!

[Sean]

6 hours ago, Payam said:

How this guy still is recommended here is a travesty. There is no other doctor that is this uninvolved in the surgery,  exactly what is he supposed to discern on those screens? No wonder I have so many doubles and triples in the first two rows.. I hope every future Asmed patient reads this thread and realizes exactly what they are paying for.

Guys, 

I don’t think it is just this forum.  You may want to look at docs recommended on ISHRS and Bald Trut to see what docs use techs and do not for parts of a procedure that would be considered surgery (ex: FUE extractions).  If im not mistaken, i think they seemed to show being concerned with techs a year or so ago but then changed opinion and are ok with as long as it is in allowed by laws of the country the docs are in.

 

Ultimately, i think common knowledge and concerns are valid.  I do think that tech extraction may be risky and techs with lack of supervision is too much of a risk for this particular cosmetic procedure.  Especially, when multiple procedures are going on and when higher graft counts are being done.  The techs are at a higher turnover rate and they do not stay forever.  Lots of concerns.

But it seems This forum lets folks speak more freely without a mod deleting threads more often.  Thats why it seems this forum has more active participation vs some other forums.  It seems mods are willing to reach out and talk to doctors instead of a mod typing you are like violating tos to most discussions.   At least mods respond here vs a generic like message.  

 

Bottom line is what are you really paying for?  

[HT0416]

Erdogan was a good doctor back in 2013 when he was doing 1 or 2 surgerys a day making a name of himself.

He is no a longer good doctor, everyone of his patients are getting average hair transplants with not that great density hence all the touch ups. Hairlines also looking dodgy af. this is negligence in my eyes. complete rip of no better than what dr cinik is doing at his clinic. 

paying 2.50 euro a graft is not a good deal, he quotes double the amount of graft numbers, grafts look stressed and weak or even dead when you see the finished results they all lack density. if you sum all this up you are paying around 10 euros a graft and playing a risky game. you have limited donar you have to think sense. using 7500 grafts on a hairline is not realistic in my eyes.

When i complained about my result they ignored me for some time before they got back in contact then disappeared waiting for the new clinic to be built so no loss in revenue and use me as a guinea pig for the new trainee technician. 

technicians are young students who practice on dolls hairs for a couple weeks. no way do any of the technicians have 5 years experience, what they did to my hairline and others i see 2 weeks at most and the rest learning what they do on real patients coming in daily. this is so risky especially when you go to a clinic to get improvement to existing hairline. Asmed no longer post results because they no longer produce good results.

A good result is when the patient is happy and no faults that could've been fixed first time round. 

 

[Gasthoerer]

1 hour ago, HT0416 said:

Erdogan was a good doctor back in 2013 when he was doing 1 or 2 surgerys a day making a name of himself.

ASMED was never on my radar, even though I like Erdogan's math driven approach. But his clinic appeared always to less "personal" to me. This has nth todo with using techs. Most top clinics use techs and even heavily when performing FUE: H&W, Rahal, Feriduni, Freitas and many, many more.

ASMED seems to make this to the extreme, but (!) HT0416 entire post is full of unproven accusations and even misquoting of what Erdogan has written. This is not fair as well, and there is NO data to back it up. Statistically (%-wise), I think the results of ASMED are still good compared to other clinics. Jean got a great result from Erdogan recently (with or without the second round). There is a crazy amount of results online of Erdogan compared to other highly praised clinics. Hence, there will be a lot of bad results as well. To put things into perspective: I just saw a video of the "famous" JT, advertising a clinic in LA with a "do all yourself surgeon". And in this very video, where JT spoke about the importance of single grafts in the hairline, I saw doubles in the result. There are no guarantees. 

And to be fair: Communication with all better clinics is terrible (this is one of the major reasons, shi.ty clinics can make a living). Especially (!) with the clinics which focus on the doc only approach, the communication is very poor, as the surgeon is naturally very busy. 

I do not want to advocate for ASMED. Personally, I would not go there and never thought about going there. I think the hairlines are too aggressive, too straight/generic and I like to spend more time with the surgeon (But I am also not financially restricted, relatively old and a difficult case). Still, the approach is not that much different from other clinics assuming the techs are properly trained. Personally, I think that in the future, Erdogan will hire further surgeons to supervise and concentrate on other things (maybe he already has done that). Would that be a bad thing per se? No, it would not, but it would not be the clinic I prefer. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Gasthoerer

[HT0416]

You can tell whos on here to shill Asmed and whos not!!!!

 Asmed only started using microscopes last year 2018. Payam was a patient 2 months after they started using the microscopes look at his hairline full of multis and i suspect other too. The forum says only 2 unhappy patients, which is a lie i have counted atleast 10 unhappy patients, majority gone back to asmed for a repair and remained silent until they see final result.

Erdogan gives you a muff of hair thats it after depleating your donar area till you have no grafts left!!!!! I suppose thats down to numbers

[Melvin- Admin]

14 minutes ago, HT0416 said:

You can tell whos on here to shill Asmed and whos not!!!!

 Asmed only started using microscopes last year 2018. Payam was a patient 2 months after they started using the microscopes look at his hairline full of multis and i suspect other too. The forum says only 2 unhappy patients, which is a lie i have counted atleast 10 unhappy patients, majority gone back to asmed for a repair and remained silent until they see final result.

Erdogan gives you a muff of hair thats it after depleating your donar area till you have no grafts left!!!!! I suppose thats down to numbers

HT 

No one is shilling anything. In fact, you’ve made several allegations with little to no proof or basis. You’re unhappy fair enough. You’ve been given an option for a free touch-up which you refused. You don’t want to accept it that is fine that’s your right, but if your sole purpose on this forum is to bad mouth Dr. Erdogan, in every thread than you’re not being fair or objective. 

We allow everyone to voice their opinions and rightly so, what we don’t allow is those who try to accuse others of shilling, in an attempt to make their statements more valid. Gas has no reason to shill. Moreover, he’s been an active member for quite sometime participating in several topics and threads. Your posting history shows you’re only interested in topics related to putting down others who’ve gone to Erdogan or to bad-mouth the ASMED clinic. The readers are more than welcome to check Gas posting history, as opposed to yours to validate these claims.

[Gasthoerer]

9 minutes ago, HT0416 said:

You can tell whos on here to shill Asmed and whos not!!!!

 OK, I'll bite: Who is a "shill" for ASMED. If you fill in my name, you make a fool of yourself. I am not a supporter of ASMED, and I recommend different clinics all over the world for different cases of hairloss. ASMED typically is not one of the clinics I recommend, and even in the post you are referring to, I didn't. Just read it again! I just try (!) to showcase both sides of the story and give a perspective. 

Side topic:  I know JT made everyone crazy about microscopes, but microscopes do NOT guarantee a great hairline or guarantee single grafts only (and the latter does NOT guarantee the first). Actually, one of my favourite hairline clinics, where the doc does everything himself,  does NOT use microscopes according to my knowledge. The results are still outstanding and very natural. 

By the way: Thanks Melvin. 

[Der3k7]

They told me 6 at old office and 10 at new one when I got my transplant done 

 

Honestly everything seemed good during the surgery. Erdogan is just scaling up the size of his business by hiring and training more techs to do more surgeries and he does more incisions per day because of it. But I mean the hairs transplantes into my hairline looked really natural and you could barely tell the distinction between where the transplanted area met the native area. Blended pretty darn well. It's all fallen out now tho so I'm waiting for it all to grow on as I only have native hair showing right now.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Der3k7

[LonelyGraft]

9 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Guys,

 I will need to clear somethings up with Dr. Erdogan, we need to make sure this is not hearsay. We need to know how many patients he’s performing surgery on a day and how he’s able to supervise those surgeries. To be honest, 7 surgeries seems excessive and I don’t see how one person can supervise all 7.

With that said, we need to allow him to speak on the situation. Ive heard of formal training etc. Dr. Erdogan, has already said everyone of his techs performs surgeries on liifelike dummys for a certain amount of hours before even touching a real life patient. 

Isn’t the monitor picture from their IG proof enough? Also the fact that they built a bigger building with more surgery rooms?

[LonelyGraft]

2 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

 OK, I'll bite: Who is a "shill" for ASMED. If you fill in my name, you make a fool of yourself. I am not a supporter of ASMED, and I recommend different clinics all over the world for different cases of hairloss. ASMED typically is not one of the clinics I recommend, and even in the post you are referring to, I didn't. Just read it again! I just try (!) to showcase both sides of the story and give a perspective. 

Side topic:  I know JT made everyone crazy about microscopes, but microscopes do NOT guarantee a great hairline or guarantee single grafts only (and the latter does NOT guarantee the first). Actually, one of my favourite hairline clinics, where the doc does everything himself,  does NOT use microscopes according to my knowledge. The results are still outstanding and very natural. 

By the way: Thanks Melvin. 

JT is a tool that changes his doc recommendations so frequently it’s not even funny. He just represents whatever doc will pass him some money. 

 

In the same video regarding baubac someone revealed some truths about the alvi Armani clinic and JT threatened to have the comments deleted and gave the user an ultimatums. After realizing how big of a shill he looked for baubac, JT then edited his own post lol.

 

Not to mention the recent attacks he made against David dimuzio after feeling threathened that there was another online “independent patient advocate” that was up and coming.

 

jt is Spencer’s lapdog. There’s a reason he was banned from this forum.

[VicTNYC]

4 hours ago, Der3k7 said:

They told me 6 at old office and 10 at new one when I got my transplant done 

 

Honestly everything seemed good during the surgery. Erdogan is just scaling up the size of his business by hiring and training more techs to do more surgeries and he does more incisions per day because of it. But I mean the hairs transplantes into my hairline looked really natural and you could barely tell the distinction between where the transplanted area met the native area. Blended pretty darn well. It's all fallen out now tho so I'm waiting for it all to grow on as I only have native hair showing right now.

It is pretty disconcerting that Dr Erdogan/ASMED are now doing 6-10 simultaneouse procedures a day....how is it possible for Dr Erdogan to do all the incisions in a timely manner that doesn’t allow for the removed grafts to degrade for some patients while they wait, while he is doing others’ incisions especially if each patients inscisions take anywhere from 30-45 minuets for him to do??

Plus...how is he adequately monitoring all the procedures going on on his screen...as well as conducting consultations with new patients....all at the same time??...it’s all very concerning to be honest.

[DEB1982]

Having had procedures performed at both clinics and being completely honest I did find my experience at the new clinic to feel not quite as personal as my first procedure. On the day I had my procedure there were five other people also having procedures. I think with such a large clinic you will lose a little of that personal touch.

In reality though I spent as much time with Dr Erdogan this time around as I did for my first procedure so the model they use hasn’t changed at all, he is just doing it on a larger scale. I requested the same technicians as I previously had and I’m certain I will have another outstanding result and am not worried in the slightest. 

As someone else rightly said they seem to have the most coverage on this site and because of that the amount of unhappy patients will obviously increase somewhat.

I find it really unfair that posters like HT0416 make claims that he gives you a muff of hair that depleted your donor zone. You couldn’t be more wrong. Dr Erdogan cares about each individual patient more than you’d realise. They guy does more for innovating the FUE technique than any other surgeon I’m reading about. I’m not just sticking up for him and I think if there are concerns about a loss of quality control then the mods can give him a chance to explain but your comments are ridiculous when you look back over the past five years at the number of amazing results he’s provided. Of course within that you will have a percentage that aren’t happy. Slating his practice constantly get us or you nowhere. 

 

[CatsMeow83]

5 hours ago, jj51702 said:

He just represents whatever doc will pass him some money. 

I wasn't aware this was a paid gig.  How exactly does one go about getting one of these paid shill gigs?  

Asking for a friend.

[HT0416]

The truth always comes out. No matter how nice somebody is doesn't mean they are good at what their doing. I have multi hair grafts in my hairline that shouldn't be there, my hairline is uniformly straight, hair angles are way off and hairline is low in density, i cant figure out where the 3000 grafts went.

It is negligence from the doctor letting this happen to me. Its all text book stuff any doctor should be getting right!!!! 

I haven't seen any results to see this has changed!!!! 

I think what you finding with Asmed/Erdogan people are not believing the lies anymore and people shilling. You only have to see all the results and see something not right.

You cant keep looking at 2010-2013 results. Those days are long gone!!!!

People disappear from the site because they are too embarrassed to post finished result, they contact Asmed they get a free touch up or discounted second surgery, years goes on....lives made miserable for one persons financial gain!!!!!

I got butchered when they were doing 4 surgerys a day in 2016, 6+ surgerys is just ridiculous. Doctor doesn't even have time to speak to his patients about their concerns!!!!!

Is Turkey even regulated?

 

[JayLDD]

31 minutes ago, HT0416 said:

The truth always comes out. No matter how nice somebody is doesn't mean they are good at what their doing. I have multi hair grafts in my hairline that shouldn't be there, my hairline is uniformly straight, hair angles are way off and hairline is low in density, i cant figure out where the 3000 grafts went.

It is negligence from the doctor letting this happen to me. Its all text book stuff any doctor should be getting right!!!! 

I haven't seen any results to see this has changed!!!! 

I think what you finding with Asmed/Erdogan people are not believing the lies anymore and people shilling. You only have to see all the results and see something not right.

You cant keep looking at 2010-2013 results. Those days are long gone!!!!

People disappear from the site because they are too embarrassed to post finished result, they contact Asmed they get a free touch up or discounted second surgery, years goes on....lives made miserable for one persons financial gain!!!!!

I got butchered when they were doing 4 surgerys a day in 2016, 6+ surgerys is just ridiculous. Doctor doesn't even have time to speak to his patients about their concerns!!!!!

Is Turkey even regulated?

 

I honestly think this guy should be banned, Lord Baldwin literally did as detailed of a statistical analysis as is possible in this industry on his results with a larger sample size than you will be able to find with any other doctor and there were a significant number of positive results over 80% were from good to great. Over 50 patient posted in the past 18 months.  I've looked and there are more good Erdogan results than with any other surgeon, of course the number of patients he does aids this and he also has more patient posted results than any other surgeon routinely posted here too which will up this number. For HT0 to outright say there aren't "any" acceptable results isn't helpful to anyone, he knows its dishonest, and everyone else who has looked around knows it too. All it serves to do is concern noobies and put them off from the get-go when they start researching which is obviously the intention.

'I got butchered when they were doing 4 surgerys a day in 2016, 6+ surgerys is just ridiculous."

Literally everyone that saw his resulted when he posted it said it either looked good apart from minor concerns with the hairline design which is easily fixable and they consult you on 3 times at the clinic. Again this helps no one, you flat out weren't butchered. You'd get deservedly sued if you said this about a surgeon in your home country.

"I think what you finding with Asmed/Erdogan people are not believing the lies anymore and people shilling"

Another good technique for misleading people is to pretend there is some kind of bandwagon effect here, it was literally you and Payam who created the hysteria, no one else. Your surgery was from over 2 years ago. I've seen more bad Rahal and Cooley results in the past 3 years than Erdogan and both have less than a fifth of the amount of patient posted results, there isn't a tenth of the same hysteria however. Other clinics have the occasional bad results but they're lucky enough not to a select number of patients who are in the top 0.1% of extreme complaints and littering them for two years on a public forum. Your result isn't even below par in regards to growth either.

'People disappear from the site because they are too embarrassed to post finished result,"

Who? I've seen very few examples of this for Erdogan surgeries.

" Doctor doesn't even have time to speak to his patients about their concerns!!!!!"

I'm saying this in an objective sense from a companies perspective, you're an absolute nutjob and would only waste his time. You're constantly dishonest, have publicly made dishonest and harmful claims about his business including PMing multiple people to tell them to avoid the clinic (that have told me so), you've also rejected going back to the clinic for a touchup and have spent over two years criticising the clinic despite them offering to help. What is a phone call of him listening to a dishonest asshole that tries to trash their business, who will never be happy and doesn't want to go back going to help you? I think in 99% of cases a clinic should do their absolute best to help patients that aren't satisfied even if the patients expectations are too high  because its in their best interest as a business and morally its a good thing to do, but in your case you're just flat out dishonest and vindictive. You deserve to be ignored.

[JayLDD]

1 hour ago, CatsMeow83 said:

I wasn't aware this was a paid gig.  How exactly does one go about getting one of these paid shill gigs?  

Asking for a friend.

JT has over twenty years experience in the industry and has worked for top clinics (including those recommended by this site, Rahal and Hasson/Wong),  networks with top-tier surgeons and regularly attends industry workshops etc. Also has high level production values in his vids and the majority of surgeons he supports for money are top-tier, most are represented by this website. Obviously its his work and he does it for money, but he does have high standards and is backed by experience, also as a repair patient who fixed himself up.

He might be a shill by definition, but there are shills who want to shill for helping people get the best results (and making money doing so), and shills that don't care whether they're helpful or not.

[CatsMeow83]

Just now, JeanLDD said:

JT has over twenty years experience in the industry and has worked for top clinics (including those recommended by this site, Rahal and Hasson/Wong),  networks with top-tier surgeons and regularly attends industry workshops etc. Also has high level production values in his vids and the majority of surgeons he supports for money are top-tier, most are represented by this website. Obviously its his work and he does it for money, but he does have high standards and is backed by experience, also as a repair patient who fixed himself up.

He might be a shill by definition, but there are shills who want to shill for helping people get the best results (and making money doing so), and shills that don't care whether they're helpful or not.

Makes more sense with this added context.  When I read the earlier post it sounded like doctors were hiring freelancers to come onto forums and wreak havoc.  Sounded like easy money.  Was considering a career change.

[LonelyGraft]

27 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

JT has over twenty years experience in the industry and has worked for top clinics (including those recommended by this site, Rahal and Hasson/Wong),  networks with top-tier surgeons and regularly attends industry workshops etc. Also has high level production values in his vids and the majority of surgeons he supports for money are top-tier, most are represented by this website. Obviously its his work and he does it for money, but he does have high standards and is backed by experience, also as a repair patient who fixed himself up.

He might be a shill by definition, but there are shills who want to shill for helping people get the best results (and making money doing so), and shills that don't care whether they're helpful or not.

Although I can’t stand JT, jean makes some decent points. Most of the docs jt represents are doing good work.

[VicTNYC]

5 hours ago, DEB1982 said:

Having had procedures performed at both clinics and being completely honest I did find my experience at the new clinic to feel not quite as personal as my first procedure. On the day I had my procedure there were five other people also having procedures. I think with such a large clinic you will lose a little of that personal touch.

In reality though I spent as much time with Dr Erdogan this time around as I did for my first procedure so the model they use hasn’t changed at all, he is just doing it on a larger scale. I requested the same technicians as I previously had and I’m certain I will have another outstanding result and am not worried in the slightest. 

As someone else rightly said they seem to have the most coverage on this site and because of that the amount of unhappy patients will obviously increase somewhat.

I find it really unfair that posters like HT0416 make claims that he gives you a muff of hair that depleted your donor zone. You couldn’t be more wrong. Dr Erdogan cares about each individual patient more than you’d realise. They guy does more for innovating the FUE technique than any other surgeon I’m reading about. I’m not just sticking up for him and I think if there are concerns about a loss of quality control then the mods can give him a chance to explain but your comments are ridiculous when you look back over the past five years at the number of amazing results he’s provided. Of course within that you will have a percentage that aren’t happy. Slating his practice constantly get us or you nowhere. 

 

Good perspective @DEB1982....looking forward to how you progress as well as the recent others from the new clinic.

I think personal touch and experience is important in any surgical procedure.. I also think refining and advancing the FUE process is also...but...I think many are concerned that with greater scale and quantity comes a possible degradation in quality and results, how is it not physically tiring for 1 Doctor to run around from surgical room to surgical room performing 30-45min incisions on 6-10 patients and monitoring them all as well as monitoring his staff as well as doing consultations on a daily basis and who know what other tasks, I think Dr Erdogan needs to address that directly, either here or on video, I think if there were more skilled doctors at ASMED assisting in the scaled-up procedures and not just technicians or 1 single doctor, that it wouldn’t be much of a concern on scale of ongoing surgeries.

It would be great to see more in-depth video profiles/before&after on patients / techniques / new clinic on here or on ASMEDs YouTube channel or their social media but lately it just seems they’re not putting in the effort as they did years previously to be honest and have let it get stale...other than the occasional party/event/conference post....new updates would help counteract their detractors whom are purposefully overblowing their results as “botched” and are making ridiculous assertions when it’s obviously not the case.