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Payam

3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

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On 1/29/2019 at 5:31 PM, xabi86 said:

Hello Payam,

Are you 11 months yet?

No mate, I will post my month 11 in ten days, no news until then except that the clinic is still ignoring me and i am trying to figure out how i can wear my hair to conceal my hairline while not exposing the gaping maw of low density on my left side. I think a crew cut might work with a fringe and toppik, kinda scared to cut my hair and too embarrassed to face my barber lol, she's probably expecting me to have a full head of hair now

On a positive note I have consultations with two very good surgeons this year, hopefully they can tell me something about how many % growth I had as well as options for the future, I just hope like hell the scar tissue isn't bad enough to make surgery too risky. It will be a long wait until I can put this ordeal behind me but at least there is a plan now.

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On 2/4/2019 at 9:35 PM, Payam said:

 

On a positive note I have consultations with two very good surgeons this year, hopefully they can tell me something about how many % growth I had as well as options for the future, I just hope like hell the scar tissue isn't bad enough to make surgery too risky. It will be a long wait until I can put this ordeal behind me but at least there is a plan now.

Could you please reveal the names of the two surgeons you intend on visiting this year?  Btw really sorry to know about your results as I was thinking about visiting Dr. Koray but after reading your post I am definitely staying away!

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Staying away cause of one sub par result? Who’s to say it’s just not payam’s hair/body responding well? 

Better stay away from all HT doctors as none have 100% success rate. 

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53 minutes ago, nb98 said:

Staying away cause of one sub par result? Who’s to say it’s just not payam’s hair/body responding well? 

Better stay away from all HT doctors as none have 100% success rate. 

it's my decision on who I feel confident with  and who I choose to go with for a HT. Thanks to Payam's post   I wont ever be considering Dr, Koray as it was a real eye opener.  And while no doctor has a 100% success rate there's some doctors out there who are willing to put their money where their mouth is by offering some sort of warranty incase the HT doesn't go according to plan. Far better than having Dr. Koray's assistants work on me while he supervises from an office chair  looking at a television  screen!

Edited by gat4
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Fair enough. Seems like most drs have their techs do some of the work, of course there is dr’s who do it all themselves, but they are much more expensive and like you say don’t have a 100% success rate either. 

I’m pretty sure a member off here got offered a touch up for free from asmed actually. Not many will give you a warranty in writing. 

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On 2/4/2019 at 11:05 AM, Payam said:

No mate, I will post my month 11 in ten days, no news until then except that the clinic is still ignoring me and i am trying to figure out how i can wear my hair to conceal my hairline while not exposing the gaping maw of low density on my left side. I think a crew cut might work with a fringe and toppik, kinda scared to cut my hair and too embarrassed to face my barber lol, she's probably expecting me to have a full head of hair now

On a positive note I have consultations with two very good surgeons this year, hopefully they can tell me something about how many % growth I had as well as options for the future, I just hope like hell the scar tissue isn't bad enough to make surgery too risky. It will be a long wait until I can put this ordeal behind me but at least there is a plan now.

Dude - you ARE the MAN! 

I'm  a gonna' go on a MAJOR rant right now - so all you TL-DR 'dear readers' may exit stage left at this point.  TYIA.

Major cosmetic surgery that is botched should be 'shouted from the rooftops' and to be brutally frank (and yes, I am in the legal field and licensed in 3 states as well as Israel) it is horrifying to me that a foreign surgeon cannot be SUED up his ass for Compensatory {expectation & consequential}/General/Punitive  as well as Aggravatory and finally Restitutionary Damages.

Dr. Erdogan is a reckless unfortunate well-known MILL surgeon operating in Turkey.   I stand by this written statement.  Unequivocally so, in fact.  So sue me,  eh?  Oh wait - that's what Dr. Erdogan says (not to your face) when he and his staff 'ghost' a persistent and rightly so PISSED-off  U.S. patient.

Shame on him.

And if I am given a 'timeout' for my written statement - no matter.  I'll take the charge.  It's really no skin off my sack as they say in Jersey.

And yes, my last surgery was in India w/Dr. Suneet Soni (4.5K FUT & 500 FUE) in March '17, previous to that surgery in Great Neck, NY w/Dr. Feller 2,243 FUT in March '04, previous to that surgery two surgeries w/Dr. Mark Pomerantz in Chicago, IL (700 and 1100 FUT 'mini and micro' grafts) in two sessions '93 & '94 and finally my 1st initial surgery w/the stupendously arrogant yet 'dim' Dr. Matt Leavitt (100  and 120 minigrafts) FUT in Detroit, MI in Dec. '90 and Jan. '91

Of course I will get more surgery - 2 to 3 FUE procedures and I will utilize 'beard' hair in the process because although I have complete coverage and NO visible thinning my hair is Asian-esque BONE straight and my hair-caliber thickness in Microns is embarrassingly low - thanks Mom & Dad.  You fucked it all up when you capriciously concieved me without thinking about genetic predispositions in 1966. 

Flaccid and weak lack of forethought, but I digress.

So, I know of where and when I speak.  In fact I would say I am the most informed hair transplant consumer that I've ever known personally.  I am obsessed w/hair - it is who I am.

Since I get a modest amount of feedback  in these forums I will post my last 2 major surgery 'before/after's and my 'current situation' in great and nauseating detail later this spring when I have more free time. 

SLR photos - professional lighting - wet/dry combthrough videos.  Scar and donor area combthroughs and both just-washed hair (wet) - towel-dried hair, no-product dry and styled hair as well as w/a touch of DermMatch concealer.

I will walk the walk because I admire everyone here that posts photos and tells their story - it takes alot for me to respect other men - this is hands-down the very best hair-restoration website on the planet.

Simple as.  For this I owe - a mitzvah if you will for my fellow brothers (in spirit) that suffer from this terrible progressive illness that is passed down from inferior genetic donors (our parents).  In the far future hairloss will be a relic of the past that time has forgotten.

Until then 'by endurance we conquer!'

Peace & Degenerate Blessings...

 

 

Edited by jjsrader
1 or 2 typos...
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I think you have to wait until 12 months to safely call the result. But yes, it isn't looking good at all. 

From my perspective, the surgeon's canned response was unsatisfactory. 

Indeed, we can get the true measure of a surgeon by how they respond and react when things don't go as planned. In this case the surgeon appears to have fallen short. 

With that said its important to remember that a perfect result can never be guaranteed, even by the best. (And I am talking from experience) There are just too many variables. Despite this, this post mortem will no doubt continue until the cows come home as every Tom, Dick, and Harry weighs in, thinking they know every single fact related to the case and patient physiology. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, nb98 said:

Staying away cause of one sub par result? Who’s to say it’s just not payam’s hair/body responding well? 

Better stay away from all HT doctors as none have 100% success rate. 

I don't want make you anxious because I see you recently had yours with Erdogan, but there are several recent results ranging from poor to unacceptable on this very forum.

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I’m not anxious. I’ve seen poor results from pretty much every dr. 

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On 1/9/2019 at 4:06 AM, Melvin-Moderator said:

Jean,

name calling is totally uncalled for, there’s no reason to behave in such an aggressive manner. I understand tensions are high and you may find some opinions disrespectful, but under no circumstance should you resort to cursing or name calling. That’s not how we conduct conversations or discussions on this forum. 

Everyone, I know there’s two sides, those of you who feel one way and those who feel another. I will be discussing the response with Bill and Pat, honestly I found his response yo be enlightening and what he said made sense. However, I would like to know about the other surgeons. Just so you know, we do not recommend clinics we recommend doctors. So, we don’t technically recommend ASMED clinic we recommend Dr. Erdogan, so anyone who is visiting our site and choosing Dr. Erdogan, should be having incisions made by Dr. Erdogan regardless. Also, it could be that those surgeons are very talented and may even end up being recommended at some point. We need more information. Be patient. 

Also, Payam how can I demand answers from Dr. Erdogan, when I’ve asked you now three times to update us with your progress and you’ve ignored me every time. How is this being fair?

 

3

Melvin, as far as I know that is not always the case so on my opinion Erdogan should not be reccomended on this website. We should evaluate Asmed as a clinic instead. Any Doctor that doesn't perform all the critical steps should not be even considered.

This is just my humble opinion, take it as is.

Edited by Jhonny

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8 hours ago, Jhonny said:

Melvin, as far as I know that is not always the case so on my opinion Erdogan should not be reccomended on this website. We should evaluate Asmed as a clinic instead. Any Doctor that doesn't perform all the critical steps should not be even considered.

This is just my humble opinion, take it as is.

You do understand that according to your criteria of: “Any Doctor that doesn't perform all the critical steps should not be even considered.” would exclude MANY top elite doctors don’t you?...and I’m in no way defending Dr Erdogan and ASMED, I’m just pointing out a fact.

 

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You could even go to say that some consider only the incisions the “critical” task, and the extraction and placement as “important but not critical”

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13 hours ago, Jhonny said:

Melvin, as far as I know that is not always the case so on my opinion Erdogan should not be reccomended on this website. We should evaluate Asmed as a clinic instead. Any Doctor that doesn't perform all the critical steps should not be even considered.

This is just my humble opinion, take it as is.

Any poster that is choosing Dr. Erdogan, from our site is having the recipient sites done by him. We have confirmed this with him directly. Many European surgeons have technicians perform extractions even North American surgeons like Rahal and H&W, so they’re not doing anything out of the ordinary. 

Furthermore, we never recommend clinics for the following reasons. Let’s say we recommend asmed as a clinic. Let’s say Dr. Erdogan sells asmed to an unknown doctor. Then changes all of the technicians etc. We would then be sealing our approval with a completely different clinic that may not have the same standards. 

Guys,

Why has this thread been bumped? There’s no update. We haven’t received an update in over a month. This thread is constantly getting de-railed with non-related questions or issues. It should be focused on Payams results period. This is his progress thread after all.


I do not provide medical advice, recommendations, all responses are my opinion.

Melvin- Editorial Assistant and Forum Co-Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media Instagram @htrestoration FacebookPintrest, Linkedin and YouTube.

 

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9 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

Any poster that is choosing Dr. Erdogan, from our site is having the recipient sites done by him. We have confirmed this with him directly. Many European surgeons have technicians perform extractions even North American surgeons like Rahal and H&W, so they’re not doing anything out of the ordinary. 

Furthermore, we never recommend clinics for the following reasons. Let’s say we recommend asmed as a clinic. Let’s say Dr. Erdogan sells asmed to an unknown doctor. Then changes all of the technicians etc. We would then be sealing our approval with a completely different clinic that may not have the same standards. 

Guys,

Why has this thread been bumped? There’s no update. We haven’t received an update in over a month. This thread is constantly getting de-railed with non-related questions or issues. It should be focused on Payams results period. This is his progress thread after all.

Melvin I do understand your point and I know it is very difficult to judge a doctor/clinic without having to take into account several aspects.

Personally I'm in the process to choose the doctor that will do my hair transplant and every time I take into consideration one doctor I ask myself...am I choosing him or his staff? What if the team n.1 is good and team n.2 is average, which team I am gonna get for my procedure?

When we choose a doctor to do any other procedure like a neurosurgeon, heart surgeon and so on we know that it will be him doing the very critical tasks and that is why we've choosen him.

Sorry if i went off topic, I just felt this is exactly the scenario I am experiencing right now and that is making my choice very hard.

Please delete my post if you feel like so we can get back to Payam and focus on his situation.

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15 hours ago, VicTNYC said:

You do understand that according to your criteria of: “Any Doctor that doesn't perform all the critical steps should not be even considered.” would exclude MANY top elite doctors don’t you?...and I’m in no way defending Dr Erdogan and ASMED, I’m just pointing out a fact.

 

Yes I do understand and It doesn't matter, I would personally exclude all if needed!

When I chose a Doc for his capability, I pay and want him to deal with my health not his technicians.

I've read of several patients coming from a procedure where one team looked after the right side and the other the left side with a different outcomes...coincidence? Maybe...

It is a fact yes, hair loss has become a massive business and obviously by doing 5-10transplants a day they make more $ but I hate to see reviews named after one doctor instead after a clinic, when that doctor barely touched their head.

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2 hours ago, Jhonny said:

Yes I do understand and It doesn't matter, I would personally exclude all if needed!

When I chose a Doc for his capability, I pay and want him to deal with my health not his technicians.

I've read of several patients coming from a procedure where one team looked after the right side and the other the left side with a different outcomes...coincidence? Maybe...

It is a fact yes, hair loss has become a massive business and obviously by doing 5-10transplants a day they make more $ but I hate to see reviews named after one doctor instead after a clinic, when that doctor barely touched their head.

Well that is definitely your choice, but, your criteria shouldn’t dictate how someone else chooses their surgeon or clinic when there are many great results that don’t adhere to what your standards are.

As for the rest of your comment...I will say that it’s a fair point..but...that’s why this forum is essential as a way to weed out bad doctors or clinics not just by the elimination of a certain technique or method...but by actual patient results that are consistently good or great, to me, those speak volumes and that is at the top of my criteria list.

Edited by VicTNYC

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Why are people bumping this thread and keeping it alive you ask?  'Cause we know a total sell out when we see it and would do the same shaming of a U.S. doctor doing the same thing with such exuberance.

Imagine a U.S. doctor monitoring from his 'throne' 9 monitors filled w/surgeries and he pops in for quick slit sites and is pretty much a ghost the rest of the time?  Sure, there are lots of sleazy plastic surgeons in U.S. that have geared up and created 'clinics' - but it would be my opinion that they either have much better personnel and quality control OR they are being lazy and too excessively profitable that they are undermining their previous good reputation.

You are witnessing this w/Dr. Erdogan.  He can fix it but he won't do so.  Thus - we rant.  And people rant all the time on forums about poor U.S. surgeons and clinics (their opinions of the 'processes' involved).  'Tis all we are doing.

We also post about excellent surgeons who are much more intimately involved and have better-trained personnel.

This is a topic that people like to read.  With all due respect; get over it.  It drives traffic anyways so it is to your benefit.  Oh, and now you can stress to your PAID sponsors that you are even more knowledge after following this thread - so make sure to subscribe to it. 

Thanks M!

peace...

Edited by jjsrader
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With all due respect I got my procedure done by Dr, Doganay and he was nothing but professional. He's the one that implanted all the graphs not his technicians and that speaks volume. He also works on ONE patient a day! Dr. Erdogan on the other hand runs his facility like a business. He sits in his office with his monitors and delegates 5 procedures a day. He's not hands on like Dr. Doganay. Every Dr. doesn't have a 100% success rate but the majority of his patients have amazing results. 

On that note, I'm going in for my 2nd procedure with Dr. Doganay and I feel as comfortable as I did last year walking into his facility....

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19 hours ago, yoyooo said:

With all due respect I got my procedure done by Dr, Doganay and he was nothing but professional. He's the one that implanted all the graphs not his technicians and that speaks volume. He also works on ONE patient a day! Dr. Erdogan on the other hand runs his facility like a business. He sits in his office with his monitors and delegates 5 procedures a day. He's not hands on like Dr. Doganay. Every Dr. doesn't have a 100% success rate but the majority of his patients have amazing results. 

On that note, I'm going in for my 2nd procedure with Dr. Doganay and I feel as comfortable as I did last year walking into his facility....

What a shity comparation, your so called doctor, he destroy so many lifes,this patients got infection and poor result.The people who work for him came in front and admit it that he use same needles on more patients.After tons of complains he was kicked out from this forum.Please try to talk with his ex patiens who got infected and try to explain to them how good is your so called doctor

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On 2/8/2019 at 7:18 AM, jjsrader said:

Why are people bumping this thread and keeping it alive you ask?  'Cause we know a total sell out when we see it and would do the same shaming of a U.S. doctor doing the same thing with such exuberance.

Imagine a U.S. doctor monitoring from his 'throne' 9 monitors filled w/surgeries and he pops in for quick slit sites and is pretty much a ghost the rest of the time?  Sure, there are lots of sleazy plastic surgeons in U.S. that have geared up and created 'clinics' - but it would be my opinion that they either have much better personnel and quality control OR they are being lazy and too excessively profitable that they are undermining their previous good reputation.

You are witnessing this w/Dr. Erdogan.  He can fix it but he won't do so.  Thus - we rant.  And people rant all the time on forums about poor U.S. surgeons and clinics (their opinions of the 'processes' involved).  'Tis all we are doing.

We also post about excellent surgeons who are much more intimately involved and have better-trained personnel.

This is a topic that people like to read.  With all due respect; get over it.  It drives traffic anyways so it is to your benefit.  Oh, and now you can stress to your PAID sponsors that you are even more knowledge after following this thread - so make sure to subscribe to it. 

Thanks M!

peace...

Couldn’t agree more

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Reputations are built over time and with significant hard work and consistency. I would like to know the procedure on how doctors get disqualified from being recommended on this forum.

There has to be a set of criterion which includes 2-3 botched or sub-par results. This is serious business and takes a financial and emotional toll on patients. This forum is about helping patients makes informed choices on doctors and bad results should be presented as they are, and doctors dis-qualified when they do not meet the standard. This is biggest value the forum can provide.

I notice that there is too much debate on bad results and many times the marketing folks come in and provide some justification or basis for it. Whilst its good to have a debate, it doesn't help the guy who is suffering or others who are trying to decide.

Just my 0.2 cents.

 

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On 2/6/2019 at 6:50 PM, nb98 said:

I’m not anxious. I’ve seen poor results from pretty much every dr. 

@nb98 Your head is firmly placed in the sand if you don't see a trend with recent poor Asmed results on this forum. 

 

On 2/10/2019 at 10:01 AM, rocketmas said:

Reputations are built over time and with significant hard work and consistency. I would like to know the procedure on how doctors get disqualified from being recommended on this forum.

There has to be a set of criterion which includes 2-3 botched or sub-par results. This is serious business and takes a financial and emotional toll on patients. This forum is about helping patients makes informed choices on doctors and bad results should be presented as they are, and doctors dis-qualified when they do not meet the standard. This is biggest value the forum can provide.

I notice that there is too much debate on bad results and many times the marketing folks come in and provide some justification or basis for it. Whilst its good to have a debate, it doesn't help the guy who is suffering or others who are trying to decide.

Just my 0.2 cents.

 

I doubt it will affect his revenue stream, a lot of people barely do their research and even if they do they tend to stare themselves blind on the good results. Also it seems he is protected on this forum as discussions regarding his results are locked, I have myself been suspended for questioning some of Korays obvious lies. 

I keep thinking of where I would have been had I gone with a European or North American doctor, I have not seen anywhere near this ratio of awful results to good results with other clinics. I'm also at complete loss at how he could have used so many grafts in my frontal third. I see results from other clinics in the same area with 600-1000 less grafts used where the post op looks even denser than mine, how is that possible? I am positive some doctors would have gotten twice the results with even less grafts used, the thought is enough to drive you up the walls. 

The most infuriating thing here though is how unprofessional Koray has been in our email conversations, at one point even blaming me for the poor density because I reduced the graft number by 400 during our consult. As if 2800 grafts in 70cm2 with my hair thickness shouldn't have been enough, before that he claimed  my donor was miniaturized. And even before that he outright ignored me for two months until I raised a big stink on the forums.  It's fucking slimy as all hell.

In any case, sorry for the lack of updates, I will post my 11 month this weekend with the good camera, until then pm me if you want pictures taken with my mobile camera.

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Hi Payam,

Understand your disappointment totally. Will also take a look a the pictures that you post on the weekend.

Have you spoken to any other doctors to have a repair job? Dr Couto has some amazing results, shame he is not on this forum.

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