3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

[Sean]

From the point of transplant to the time frame now, it seems that is quite fast to naturally recede so quick on its own.  Can be the cause of excess feezing (scalp numbing injections) multiple factors.  Did you have any incisions in that zone?  

[Spaceman]

22 hours ago, Gasthoerer said:

3. I said several times: Thick grafts or multis in the hairline are typically bad work from the clinic if it is more than a few outlayers. Typically bad work by the techs sorting/implanting the grafts (and not a matter of microscopes). Only apology for the clinic: The singles in front of the doubles did not grow. DO you have close ups directly after the transplant? Can you see multis in the first row (in know some could have been dormant), but it could be a hint.

Yes, unfortunately that’s what happened in this case. There were obvious doubles and triples up front.

[Payam]

1 hour ago, Spaceman said:

Yes, unfortunately that’s what happened in this case. There were obvious doubles and triples up front.

 

[Payam]

1 hour ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

There is no transection of native hairs, it just looks like you're losing more hair. Hair transplants do not prevent or stop hair loss. Are you on finasteride or minoxidil?

No that can't be, my hairline has been very slowly receding since I was 20 and my hair loss effectively stopped almost completely when I started on fin earlier this year which is the one good thing to come out of this

Edited December 8, 2018 by Payam

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, Payam said:

No that can't be, my hairline has been very slowly receding since I was 20 and my hair loss effectively stopped almost completely when I started on fin earlier this year which is the one good thing to come out of this

 

Payam transection occurs when a follicle is cut in half from it's root. I highly doubt this happened to your native hairs. Now, you may have suffered shock loss, that has yet to grow back. However, transection of native hairs is highly unlikely.

[JayLDD]

11 hours ago, Spaceman said:

Yes, unfortunately that’s what happened in this case. There were obvious doubles and triples up front.

This pic was taken after you’d already clearly lost a significant amount of transplanted hair post-scabbing compared to direct postop including a lot of the singles.

[Spaceman]

The picture was day 10 and the hairline was still well-defined by redness. There are quite a few multis at the hairline and it certainly looks as though there were never singles in front of them. He has other pictures from day 5 that show the same thing.

[JayLDD]

43 minutes ago, Spaceman said:

The picture was day 10 and the hairline was still well-defined by redness. There are quite a few multis at the hairline and it certainly looks as though there were never singles in front of them. He has other pictures from day 5 that show the same thing.

That also clearly show and state that there is significant scabbing and gaps of hair missing, but whatever you say.

[Gasthoerer]

Looking at the latest hairline picture: It doesn't look to bad IMO. No reason to remove grafts by laser or anything else, like you asked in another thread. If you add density then most likely it will be just fine. And if not: Just plug the few multis so that they are singles. Many people do that with their remaining native hair in front of their new hairline. 

If (and it is a big if) after that the multis still bother you then (and only then) you look for removal. 

[Spaceman]

I wouldn’t remove any grafts either. The multis aren’t your primary issue, it’s density.  If you add density between and behind the multis then they will blend into the hairline better.  1000 grafts along and behind the existing hairline would make a big difference for you. Plus a few hundred to fill in the sparse temple. Unfortunately you’ll need a second procedure to achieve your goals but I think you can achieve them. 

[Payam]

Thank you guys, I agree with you both, I think some added density and a row of singles would make a world of difference, mostly worried about depleting my donor now but will wait and see what my consults give, perhaps It's possible to put 1000 grafts in the frontal third while maintaining enough donor supply for a future FUT but... Erdogan estimated I had 7600 grafts, we know his estimates are on the higher side compared to other surgeon's so I really fear that the only recommendation by surgeons from this point on would be an FUT, which I had planned for already but not for another 10-15 years. Ideal scenario would of course be if I could get 1000 grafts by FUE now and 4000 or so with FUT later, mixed with body hair I think I would be relatively future proof

[Mikey1970]

Pretty alarming to read this post & feel the impact it has had on you! Im a bit surprised as based on many previous posts on this forum I had considered Asmed to be amongst the best FUE team in the world. Maybe they are taking on too many clients/surgeries in the one day and it is beginning to impact their results?

Dr Couto is the red hot surgeon atm but his wait times are apparently insane/years!

I have been on the receiving end of the good, the bad & the average from this industry myself so can genuinely empathise with you pal. What doesn't break us does make us stronger but we do need our smarts, complete dr integrity & a bit of luck to end up happy in this game.

Best.

[Payam]

On 12/9/2018 at 7:18 PM, JeanLDD said:

That also clearly show and state that there is significant scabbing and gaps of hair missing, but whatever you say.

But you can see the doubles and triples at the very front of the hairline there or very close to it, why would they place those triples there? 

[Payam]

On 12/13/2018 at 12:09 PM, Mikey1970 said:

Pretty alarming to read this post & feel the impact it has had on you! Im a bit surprised as based on many previous posts on this forum I had considered Asmed to be amongst the best FUE team in the world. Maybe they are taking on too many clients/surgeries in the one day and it is beginning to impact their results?

Dr Couto is the red hot surgeon atm but his wait times are apparently insane/years!

I have been on the receiving end of the good, the bad & the average from this industry myself so can genuinely empathise with you pal. What doesn't break us does make us stronger but we do need our smarts, complete dr integrity & a bit of luck to end up happy in this game.

Best.

He's not even the best in Turkey. I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences man, do you have a thread detailing your journey? I've never been this angry and disappointed over something in my life, the pictures really don't do it justice. It looks beyond awful in natural light and I really am left with no choice but to conceal my hairline. 

I have received some response from other clinics at least but the consensus based on the pictures I sent is that due to the scare tissue in my recipient there is a likelihood I will never get good results. I already knew this but hearing a professional say it and calling me a repair job due to the multitude of issues is too depressing, I'm glad they are honest and ethical though. I will have to get my recipient scar tissue examined under magnification, but the clinic is half way around the world so looking at options in the EU for now, at least to examine the scar tissue to see if a second surgery would be inadvisable

Edited December 15, 2018 by Payam

[Gasthoerer]

Personally, I think the scar tissue thing is overblown in general and especially in your case. Million of patients get a second surgery / touch up with good results, why should it be an issue in your case? I believe this new clinic (Which one?) only wants to lower your expectations. 

[Payam]

21 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Personally, I think the scar tissue thing is overblown in general and especially in your case. Million of patients get a second surgery / touch up with good results, why should it be an issue in your case? I believe this new clinic (Which one?) only wants to lower your expectations. 

I don't know man, I don't mind them being blunt with me and not promising the world, they don't really know what my expectations are (pretty damn low at this point), and it is most definitively harder to transplant into compromised scalp rather than virgin scalp. They say that they can't know for sure unless I do an in person consultation and have my recipient examined in detail under magnification and with blood tests, this all makes perfect sense to me and I'm actually very happy with this response. Problem is though they are really far away for just a consultation so I am really looking to have my recipient examined by a EU doc for now, leaning towards Lupanzula, I also have a consultation with Cuoto next year, I need a EU doc who is meticulous and personal, I have heard Lorenzo, De Freitas and Bisanga despite their monster results see several patients a day which is not for me. 

I will pm you the clinic

[FarsanUk]

Payum. 

Lupanzula is a great choice. He often comes to London for consultations at least twice a year I my self had a consultation with him last year. Maybe contact them and ask when they will.be in UK.. assuming you are in UK.

[Mikey1970]

On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 4:23 PM, Payam said:

He's not even the best in Turkey. I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences man, do you have a thread detailing your journey? I've never been this angry and disappointed over something in my life, the pictures really don't do it justice. It looks beyond awful in natural light and I really am left with no choice but to conceal my hairline. 

I have received some response from other clinics at least but the consensus based on the pictures I sent is that due to the scare tissue in my recipient there is a likelihood I will never get good results. I already knew this but hearing a professional say it and calling me a repair job due to the multitude of issues is too depressing, I'm glad they are honest and ethical though. I will have to get my recipient scar tissue examined under magnification, but the clinic is half way around the world so looking at options in the EU for now, at least to examine the scar tissue to see if a second surgery would be inadvisable

I had a thread on the old site about a horror shock loss experience I had, resulting from a tiny touch up procedure.

Im convinced I was being led up the garden path for several, unnecessary repeat procedures. I finally consulted another surgeon who did a decent repair on me but I can still notice weakness when my hair is wet, but its almost undetectable to others - especially when dry. Cant really complain - I am way, way better off now than if I had never had transplants.

Don't get too depressed mate, your results may not be as thick or as dense as you would like but I wouldn't say you are botched or left looking freakish.  When you brush it back dry it actually does look quite good. 

I think top notch Dr's can get reasonable yields into scar tissue, work is even done on burnt skin. That said you have to work out the toll it will take on your wellbeing by chasing a better result. 

Good luck with whatever you decide. Cheers.

[wheretogo]

1 hour ago, Mikey1970 said:

I had a thread on the old site about a horror shock loss experience I had, resulting from a tiny touch up procedure.

Im convinced I was being led up the garden path for several, unnecessary repeat procedures. I finally consulted another surgeon who did a decent repair on me but I can still notice weakness when my hair is wet, but its almost undetectable to others - especially when dry. Cant really complain - I am way, way better off now than if I had never had transplants.

Don't get too depressed mate, your results may not be as thick or as dense as you would like but I wouldn't say you are botched or left looking freakish.  When you brush it back dry it actually does look quite good. 

I think top notch Dr's can get reasonable yields into scar tissue, work is even done on burnt skin. That said you have to work out the toll it will take on your wellbeing by chasing a better result. 

Good luck with whatever you decide. Cheers.

What cause the scar tissue?

Mikey, so it's not advisable to do a touch-up?

Edited December 17, 2018 by wheretogo

[LonelyGraft]

16 minutes ago, wheretogo said:

What cause the scar tissue?

Mikey, so it's not advisable to do a touch-up?

Surgery in general causes scar tissue where incisions/wounds are made or where tissue is removed so both recipient and donor areas are affected.

[Payam]

Need some opinions here as they are claiming the low density is because I reduced the number of grafts planned from 4000 to 3600, which Is true, I did reduce the number of grafts he planned to use IN MY CROWN from 1400 to 1000, eventually they ended up placing 800 in my crown and 2800 in the front.. But now he means 2800 grafts in the area implanted and with my hair calibre wasn't enough and I would have needed more to get full coverage, whatever that means? I can't believe this as 2800 grafts is a huge amount and should at the very least have given me a decent result, as the density should be over 40fu/cm2 with 2800 grafts, what do you guys think? 

Edited December 19, 2018 by Payam

[Kingbilla]

I dont get it.

If you reduced the no. of grafts from your crown area why would that affect your hairline. 

No. Of grafts transplanted there were according to initial estimation. 

[JayLDD]

On 12/19/2018 at 11:30 PM, Payam said:

Need some opinions here as they are claiming the low density is because I reduced the number of grafts planned from 4000 to 3600, which Is true, I did reduce the number of grafts he planned to use IN MY CROWN from 1400 to 1000, eventually they ended up placing 800 in my crown and 2800 in the front.. But now he means 2800 grafts in the area implanted and with my hair calibre wasn't enough and I would have needed more to get full coverage, whatever that means? I can't believe this as 2800 grafts is a huge amount and should at the very least have given me a decent result, as the density should be over 40fu/cm2 with 2800 grafts, what do you guys think? 

In terms of these numbers you're giving now, from you on your first post:

Why did you say these numbers here then? 

 

It's not like you want to go back to the clinic again anyway, no idea why you still bother to correspond (other than to bump this thread so people can see your complaints of course)

 

Not sure why you're more content on moaning on the forum when you supposedly have the money for a surgeon you actually want that runs their clinic the way you're comfortable with, you're FORCING yourself to be miserable and stressed at the moment, just as you did from the beginning as is obvious from reading your initial posts. No wonder you're consulting with Couto,  with his waiting list he'll give you another 4 years to whine about your surgery rather than actually fixing what is unlikely to be a complicated fix, and you absolutely have the donor for. Seems to be your preference.

 

 

[Payam]

33 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

In terms of these numbers you're giving now, from you on your first post:

Why did you say these numbers here then? 

 

It's not like you want to go back to the clinic again anyway, no idea why you still bother to correspond (other than to bump this thread so people can see your complaints of course)

 

Not sure why you're more content on moaning on the forum when you supposedly have the money for a surgeon you actually want that runs their clinic the way you're comfortable with, you're FORCING yourself to be miserable and stressed at the moment, just as you did from the beginning as is obvious from reading your initial posts. No wonder you're consulting with Couto,  with his waiting list he'll give you another 4 years to whine about your surgery rather than actually fixing what is unlikely to be a complicated fix, and you absolutely have the donor for. Seems to be your preference.

 

 

That was the original plan, the plan was for 1000 in the crown (reduced from 1400) and 2600 in the front, but apparently they changed it on the second day for whatever reason and added 200 in the front somewhere and 800 in crown (Esen told me a couple months ago).

Of course I will correspond with the clinic, I have questions I want them to answer which they are extremely reluctant to, and when they do the answers leave a lot to be desired, like the example above. How can 2800 grafts in that are have been too low, would you accept that explanation?

Really think you should keep a better tone man, not at all necessary to write the way you do

Edited December 21, 2018 by Payam

[JayLDD]

1 hour ago, Payam said:

That was the original plan, the plan was for 1000 in the crown (reduced from 1400) and 2600 in the front, but apparently they changed it on the second day for whatever reason and added 200 in the front somewhere and 800 in crown (Esen told me a couple months ago).

Of course I will correspond with the clinic, I have questions I want them to answer which they are extremely reluctant to, and when they do the answers leave a lot to be desired, like the example above. How can 2800 grafts in that are have been too low, would you accept that explanation?

Really think you should keep a better tone man, not at all necessary to write the way you do

I think you already know the growth was bad, and I think the only reason you’re asking the questions is so you can complain about the answers on here.

People take more notice dependent on tone, and I do think it’s obvious that you’re the type to just ignore things that are said more casually. 

Youre better off consulting clinics that are to your liking and fixing the problem ASAP than complaining for over two years about an easily fixable problem like HT012 did. The questions you’re asking are below your intelligence level and are outright dumb, you’re clearly smart enough to know the yield was poor and can see it in the preops. It’s obvious the only reason you’re asking and continuing correspondence is so you can complain about the response here.

Maybe you’re happy asking dumb questions when you’ve already made up your mind about the clinic and your result, but I strongly doubt it and  think you’d be a million times happier if you booked with a clinic more suited to your liking like Koniors with Nadimi and fixing the problem asap. Honestly your result isn’t even that bad, the density is poor but easily fixable.

You constantly sound like you’re freaking out and want help, being helpful isn’t patting you on the head and saying “who’s a good boy” like some people here want to, it’s telling you that complaining doesn’t fix a poor yield, but a touch up with a clinic that takes a more tailored and slower approach like Konior/nadimi, Keser, lupanzula, Baubac etc will help. You should consult clinics like these and make a booking rather than dwelling on a problem that is very, very small if you don’t have financial issues with more work.

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by JeanLDD