3600 Grafts - Dr Koray Erdogan 13th March 2018

[hairlossPA]

confirmed. that left side is a failure (at this moment in time). save the BS for the hairs to thicken over the next couple months.. I feel your pain Payam. hang in there and do what you can to style it in a way that disguises it.

good luck on a touchup in the future. check out Rahal

[LonelyGraft]

Wait why were u banned?

[kw877]

I’m so sorry mate  I’m anxious af about mine cos I’m yet to see a decent result come out of there recently. All seem to have the same issues of being sparse / low density. You must get so tired of peoples comments of “it’ll thicken up”. It’s not the hair thickness that’s the issue, it’s the amount of hairs (or lack of).

[Payam]

8 hours ago, hairlossPA said:

confirmed. that left side is a failure (at this moment in time). save the BS for the hairs to thicken over the next couple months.. I feel your pain Payam. hang in there and do what you can to style it in a way that disguises it.

good luck on a touchup in the future. check out Rahal

Thank you bro, i have looked at Rahal but will not consider him for FUE, he is my second FUT choice though, also looking at Cuoto, im very worried about the scar tissue not allowing a touch up to work though like in Seans case

[Payam]

8 hours ago, kw877 said:

I’m so sorry mate  I’m anxious af about mine cos I’m yet to see a decent result come out of there recently. All seem to have the same issues of being sparse / low density. You must get so tired of peoples comments of “it’ll thicken up”. It’s not the hair thickness that’s the issue, it’s the amount of hairs (or lack of).

Thank you brother, i don't mind the comments, i know people are generally well meaning, hoping the very best for you man. I know this might sound empty coming from me but be good to yourself and try to remain calm, best way is to stop coming to websites like this entirely unless for updates.

[PeloDinero]

Since when did this forum turn into the White House? People getting banned for expressing an opinion that differs from the moderators, smh. 

[Melvin- Admin]

4 hours ago, PeloDinero said:

Since when did this forum turn into the White House? People getting banned for expressing an opinion that differs from the moderators, smh. 

No one has been banned, I’ve warned you specifically twice and you still haven’t been banned. If Payam was banned how would he be posting? Think about what you just wrote and whether or not that makes sense. 

We encourage and want everyone to post about their experience, but if you start spamming the site on every thread about a particular surgeon that is not acceptable. It has never been and will not be acceptable. Unfortunately, not every result or experience is the same. However, we expect patients to respect others threads and not try and de-rail others threads with their own agenda. Obviously, posting about your experience on your thread is the proper thing to do. As with the results, I don’t think they’re great, but not horrible either. Certainly have improved each month. So, there’s still time for the results to improve. However, I don’t think Payam will be happy regardless. 

[Sean]

Melvin, were Payam’s posting privileges taken away for these last couple days?  It seems he is able to post now.  

[Melvin- Admin]

2 minutes ago, Sean said:

Melvin, were Payam’s posting privileges taken away for these last couple days?  It seems he is able to post now.  

If you’re banned you can no longer post. Not ever, that is the definition of being banned. If he can post that means he’s not banned. 

[PeloDinero]

30 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

No one has been banned, I’ve warned you specifically twice and you still haven’t been banned. If Payam was banned how would he be posting? Think about what you just wrote and whether or not that makes sense. 

We encourage and want everyone to post about their experience, but if you start spamming the site on every thread about a particular surgeon that is not acceptable. It has never been and will not be acceptable. Unfortunately, not every result or experience is the same. However, we expect patients to respect others threads and not try and de-rail others threads with their own agenda. Obviously, posting about your experience on your thread is the proper thing to do. As with the results, I don’t think they’re great, but not horrible either. Certainly have improved each month. So, there’s still time for the results to improve. However, I don’t think Payam will be happy regardless. 

His post above says he was unable to post for ten days because he was banned. If you’re getting caught up in the definition between banned and suspended, you’re entirely missing the point. Let’s not get lost in the semantics and focus on the issue which is that threats of banning and suspension are too carelessly thrown around on this forum. 

[Melvin- Admin]

Just now, PeloDinero said:

His post above says he was unable to post for ten days because he was banned. If you’re getting caught up in the definition between banned and suspended, you’re entirely missing the point. Let’s not get lost in the semantics and focus on the issue which is that threats of banning and suspension are too carelessly thrown around on this forum. 

This will be my last reply on this isse, because frankly this de-rails the thread entirely. Suspensions are not thrown around carelessly. In fact, we give members ample time and proper warnings about how they should conduct themselves on the forum and how to respect others. As I mentioned previously we encourage everyone to post about their experience on their own thread. 

However, we do not allow thread de-railing and agenda posting. We have to keep this forum fair and being fair means giving everyone the opportunity to share their own experience; without someone else jumping on their thread de-railing and taking over their thread, especially when they have their own thread detailing their experience.

If you have any further questions on the matter feel free to private message me.

[JayLDD]

44 minutes ago, PeloDinero said:

His post above says he was unable to post for ten days because he was banned. If you’re getting caught up in the definition between banned and suspended, you’re entirely missing the point. Let’s not get lost in the semantics and focus on the issue which is that threats of banning and suspension are too carelessly thrown around on this forum. 

The guy was spam posting dishonest fearmongering on every Erdogan thread, making misleading and outright false statements trying to convince people and newcomers to avoid the clinic, posting negative comments on every Erdogan thread he could find, convincing people who refused to prove they had surgery with Erdogan or provide pics to complain and saying ludicrous things like that people only saw good results of Erdogan while researching him because of his marketing department somehow magically manipulating the entire internet. If he did this against a US clinic as a US citizen he'd probably get sued.

The forum is supposed to be a helpful resource to newcomers and people researching for hair transplants. Spam posting false or misleading information in every thread possible on a daily basis is not helpful, nor is lying to people to people about realistic expectations.  His result isn't acceptable but its one of few in over 50 very strong results online in the past 18 months and no surgeon has a perfect track record. I've seen more bad Cooley and Feriduni results lately than those from ASMED and NO ONE has complained about them, despite the fact they have significantly less patient posted results in general. It's unrealistic PERIOD to act as if a clinic is poor because it has a bad mediocre result. ASMED even offered a touchup to a guy here who has trashed them online for over 2 years while 95% of people in the thread where he posted his results said it appeared successful. There aren't many businesses offering $5000+ services to those who trash them with unrealistic complaints online for 2 years.

You saw the Hasson thread with the poor result and obviously Dutchie springs to mind as another of his dud cases, does that mean it is acceptable for someone to spam post on everything HnW thread that they're only in it for the money and are performing bad work? That would be ridiculous, and it would be misleading against a clinic that does great work and wants the best for its patients. It also paints an unrealistic portrait of surgery that every result can be a home-run.  It wouldn't be helpful for newcomers or help them make informed decisions. Unfortunately convincing people through fearmongering works, even when its dishonest.

I personally agree with the majority of what you say and think you're a good poster, but you ought to use your head more than your feelings more on issues like this. Do you think a mudslinging free for all with people who CLEARLY don't understand or refuse to accept facts, making misleading, fear invoking claims on on every thread about a surgeon and PMing people to complain and stoke the fires further is helping anyone make informed decisions or make this forum better?  Of course it doesn't.  Yes the mods are more conservative in their assertions and approach than someone like yourself but they're also running business that is designed to support and bring a system of realistic accountability to surgeons, they are overall very lenient and fair in terms of what people can say. No patient, or doctor benefits from a system where a single poster can go off the rails making stupid and misleading comments in every place possible, drowning out any rational, intelligent discourse and cry "so you're saying we can't state our honest opinion?" You can do so even with harsh criticism without misleading people, spamming and being a troll.

Edited November 13, 2018 by JeanLDD

[Payam]

I haven't said any false statements at all Jean, i have mentioned a number of recent Erdogan cases that have been sub par and raised worries over how disconnected he is from the surgery, where have i ever made a false statement? I have not PM'd anyone and i have not tried to disuade people from going to Erdogan, we should be able to discuss their methods and recent results without being banned or subjugated to childish attacks like this..

Edited November 13, 2018 by Payam

[LonelyGraft]

1 hour ago, JeanLDD said:

The guy was spam posting dishonest fearmongering on every Erdogan thread, making misleading and outright false statements trying to convince people and newcomers to avoid the clinic, posting negative comments on every Erdogan thread he could find, convincing people who refused to prove they had surgery with Erdogan or provide pics to complain and saying ludicrous things like that people only saw good results of Erdogan while researching him because of his marketing department somehow magically manipulating the entire internet. If he did this against a US clinic as a US citizen he'd probably get sued.

The forum is supposed to be a helpful resource to newcomers and people researching for hair transplants. Spam posting false or misleading information in every thread possible on a daily basis is not helpful, nor is lying to people to people about realistic expectations.  His result isn't acceptable but its one of few in over 50 very strong results online in the past 18 months and no surgeon has a perfect track record. I've seen more bad Cooley and Feriduni results lately than those from ASMED and NO ONE has complained about them, despite the fact they have significantly less patient posted results in general. It's unrealistic PERIOD to act as if a clinic is poor because it has a bad mediocre result. ASMED even offered a touchup to a guy here who has trashed them online for over 2 years while 95% of people in the thread where he posted his results said it appeared successful. There aren't many businesses offering $5000+ services to those who trash them with unrealistic complaints online for 2 years.

You saw the Hasson thread with the poor result and obviously Dutchie springs to mind as another of his dud cases, does that mean it is acceptable for someone to spam post on everything HnW thread that they're only in it for the money and are performing bad work? That would be ridiculous, and it would be misleading against a clinic that does great work and wants the best for its patients. It also paints an unrealistic portrait of surgery that every result can be a home-run.  It wouldn't be helpful for newcomers or help them make informed decisions. Unfortunately convincing people through fearmongering works, even when its dishonest.

I personally agree with the majority of what you say and think you're a good poster, but you ought to use your head more than your feelings more on issues like this. Do you think a mudslinging free for all with people who CLEARLY don't understand or refuse to accept facts, making misleading, fear invoking claims on on every thread about a surgeon and PMing people to complain and stoke the fires further is helping anyone make informed decisions or make this forum better?  Of course it doesn't.  Yes the mods are more conservative in their assertions and approach than someone like yourself but they're also running business that is designed to support and bring a system of realistic accountability to surgeons, they are overall very lenient and fair in terms of what people can say. No patient, or doctor benefits from a system where a single poster can go off the rails making stupid and misleading comments in every place possible, drowning out any rational, intelligent discourse and cry "so you're saying we can't state our honest opinion?" You can do so even with harsh criticism without misleading people, spamming and being a troll.

Mind linking us to these bad Cooley and feriduni results? I’ve looked and can’t find any 

[JayLDD]

8 minutes ago, jj51702 said:

Mind linking us to these bad Cooley and feriduni results? I’ve looked and can’t find any 

I don't think you are looking very hard then but if you really wanted me to I could PM them. However my point absolutely was not about criticism of these doctors or suggesting that people should be attacking any surgeon off the basis of a below-par result. It was specifically that a balanced, rational view should be taken that no surgeon provides a guaranteed homerun, and that there are too many bad results in general even with various top surgeons to assert that they occur only due to incompetence or mistakes by a doctor. There also seems to be a trend to criticise certain surgeons who use techs for extractions. No one complains about Canadian, Belgian or Spanish surgeons doing so, but they will readily criticise Turkish surgeons for the it without an explanation as to why that is logical. They will also make a large deal over below-par tech results, but if a doctor does the entire procedure themselves and still has a below-par result, they ignore it. It isn't hard to view things with universal standards. That lack of applying universal standards may not be "lying" in a direct sense, but it is indeed disingenuous and dishonest no matter how someone wants to frame it.

[Payam]

56 minutes ago, JeanLDD said:

I don't think you are looking very hard then but if you really wanted me to I could PM them. However my point absolutely was not about criticism of these doctors or suggesting that people should be attacking any surgeon off the basis of a below-par result. It was specifically that a balanced, rational view should be taken that no surgeon provides a guaranteed homerun, and that there are too many bad results in general even with various top surgeons to assert that they occur only due to incompetence or mistakes by a doctor. There also seems to be a trend to criticise certain surgeons who use techs for extractions. No one complains about Canadian, Belgian or Spanish surgeons doing so, but they will readily criticise Turkish surgeons for the it without an explanation as to why that is logical. They will also make a large deal over below-par tech results, but if a doctor does the entire procedure themselves and still has a below-par result, they ignore it. It isn't hard to view things with universal standards. That lack of applying universal standards may not be "lying" in a direct sense, but it is indeed disingenuous and dishonest no matter how someone wants to frame it.

You are wilfully ignoring the core of the criticism and focusing on the techs. Which Canadian, Belgian or Spanish surgery has 4 patients a day and the doctor only monitoring it via cctv? Is it unreasonable to think that 4 teams of techs (8 in total doing the extractions) have different skill levels, and that is why we are seeing inconsistencies? I am genuinely asking and would like to know if i am being unreasonable

[Payam]

3 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

No one has been banned, I’ve warned you specifically twice and you still haven’t been banned. If Payam was banned how would he be posting? Think about what you just wrote and whether or not that makes sense. 

We encourage and want everyone to post about their experience, but if you start spamming the site on every thread about a particular surgeon that is not acceptable. It has never been and will not be acceptable. Unfortunately, not every result or experience is the same. However, we expect patients to respect others threads and not try and de-rail others threads with their own agenda. Obviously, posting about your experience on your thread is the proper thing to do. As with the results, I don’t think they’re great, but not horrible either. Certainly have improved each month. So, there’s still time for the results to improve. However, I don’t think Payam will be happy regardless. 

Would you be happy with my results? I would be over the moon with yours so i think it is completely unfair of you to claim i would not have been happy regardless

[ILtrooper]

🤦🏻‍♂️

[FarsanUk]

17 minutes ago, Payam said:

You are wilfully ignoring the core of the criticism and focusing on the techs. Which Canadian, Belgian or Spanish surgery has 4 patients a day and the doctor only monitoring it via cctv? Is it unreasonable to think that 4 teams of techs (8 in total doing the extractions) have different skill levels, and that is why we are seeing inconsistencies? I am genuinely asking and would like to know if i am being unreasonable

Are you saying it is because of this the reason for your results ? If it is then fair enough but if you are just saying it to find as many possible reasons for failure then that's wrong. Also you said 8 in total doing extractions. It's 1 tech does all the extractions for 1 patient. You need to be precise and if you want people to trust your opinion then you need to state what is true as well because the moment you make up certain points you lose credibility and infact most people will stop listening or caring about your opinions. It's simple now. Stop these posts , get to your 12 month mark, consult some doctor only clinics for repair and go for it.

[Payam]

10 minutes ago, FarsanUk said:

Are you saying it is because of this the reason for your results ? If it is then fair enough but if you are just saying it to find as many possible reasons for failure then that's wrong. Also you said 8 in total doing extractions. It's 1 tech does all the extractions for 1 patient. You need to be precise and if you want people to trust your opinion then you need to state what is true as well because the moment you make up certain points you lose credibility and infact most people will stop listening or caring about your opinions. It's simple now. Stop these posts , get to your 12 month mark, consult some doctor only clinics for repair and go for it.

I mean 4 teams of 8 techs, two per team, at least in my surgery they were two in surgical gear but I'm not sure if they were both extracting or just one of them. 

[Melvin- Admin]

38 minutes ago, Payam said:

Would you be happy with my results? I would be over the moon with yours so i think it is completely unfair of you to claim i would not have been happy regardless

I wouldn’t be ecstatic, but I definitely wouldn’t consider myself “botched”. My point is, even with things improving every month you’re not satisfied and fair enough you’re entitled to feel the way you do. However, I’m merely stating my opinion and I honestly don’t think you’d be satisfied with my results. 

[Payam]

3 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I wouldn’t be ecstatic, but I definitely wouldn’t consider myself “botched”. My point is, even with things improving every month you’re not satisfied and fair enough you’re entitled to feel the way you do. However, I’m merely stating my opinion and I honestly don’t think you’d be satisfied with my results. 

You are wrong, even though your result still requires some maintenance it looks natural in the hairline, that is the most important part.

[fortuneplant]

Let's go back to the thread's topic - Payam's HT progress.

I attached a visual summary.  Payam's did his HT on March 13, 2018. Right off the bat, he wasn't happy with how he was treated. He only had 10 minutes to consult with the doctor on March 12. He was surprised that it was a tech driven operation. At the post op, he got a fever and the doctor did not see him. When he has concerns, he is frustrated that he can only speak with the coordinator.

He got very anxious after post-ops. Within 10 days, he complains when it looks sparse, he complains when it look dense, he complains that the hairline is too aggressive. To quote " I will for sure require electrolysis or some other type of restoration to move it up in the future."

He is now on his eight month.

 

Edited November 14, 2018 by fortuneplant

[Payam]

3 hours ago, fortuneplant said:

Let's go back to the thread's topic - Payam's HT progress.

I attached a visual summary.  Payam's did his HT on March 13, 2018. Right off the bat, he wasn't happy with how he was treated. He only had 10 minutes to consult with the doctor on March 12. He was surprised that it was a tech driven operation. At the post op, he got a fever and the doctor did not see him. When he has concerns, he is frustrated that he can only speak with the coordinator.

He got very anxious after post-ops. Within 10 days, he complains when it looks sparse, he complains when it look dense, he complains that the hairline is too aggressive. To quote " I will for sure require electrolysis or some other type of restoration to move it up in the future."

He is now on his eight month.

 

Thanks for the summary, just one comment, It was only 12 days after the transplant that I thought the hairline was too low and aggressive, I have not thought so since then obviously just wish the density was better, thanks

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SVy9QXSlU5xDdFOTMz7jPeZwZZneZyPk/view?usp=drivesdk

Edited November 14, 2018 by Payam

[VicTNYC]

Looking at the video you posted, it doesn’t look “horrible”, lacking in density yes, transplanted hair growth on left side doesn’t look to be in the proper direction, I wouldn’t be happy...BUT....I wouldn’t be anxious either...you still have months of further improvement as you have obviously gained improvement over each month already. 

Even with the growth direction of the new hair on the left side since it often takes time for the grafts to produce hairs like your native ones and to lay or flow in the proper direction, it could happen in another shed & growth cycle...so...to me...for 8-months it looks okay...not great, but okay.

i wonder, if in 10 months from now it has improved even more so for you, if you would be honest and admit that you panicked and complained too soon...I hope it does, and hope you do.